I have bywarrens back also. I might add, that it is not only the tourist who is totally responsible for overfishing, collecting out of season, collecting undersize, or just going after the "big" fish. My friends hired a guy for fishing several days and for a beach BBQ. This was in late may, early June, not lobster season. For the beach BBQ, there were some fish, a small lobster, and two small conch, which he advised against trying to bring the shells bak because they were too small. Faced with protecting and sustaining fisheries or satisfying tourists, a local fisherman may think about his needs first.

This may change some of your views of spearfishing

paleface

Sorry to interrupt this eloquent and constructive *cough* debate with my ignorance. When we are talking about spear fishing are we talking about spear guns or just a hand held spear? I did not know it was illegal to spear a lobster (not that I did) but my guide did with a hand held spear (in season and not a small lobster). I understand completely about fishing without respect for the environment. Where I grew up crabbing was what I spent my time doing. We had a few rules. You didn't take anything under a certain size; if you caught a stone crab with two claws you could only take one and if it it only had one you couldn't take any (I still have some reservations about that one), if you caught a blue crab carrying eggs, you could not take her.

Recently I went back there and there are no stone crab or blue crab to be caught. Clearly someone didn't follow the rules.

It does seem logical though that one tourist, spearing (non mechanically) fish for his supper is likely to cause less damage to the environment than one tourist going to a restaurant where the fish may have been caught by net, trap or some other form of fishing which results in multiple and often pointless wastage.

I genuinely would love more information on sound and ethical fishing practices so that I can get my dinner causing least environmental impact. Also so that I can be well enough informed to choose my guides carefully. As a forum geared towards visitors, it would be much more useful if local business people and local people would give practical information rather than use this as a way to bitch at eachother. Quite frankly bitching is much more entertaining when done in a bar.

Especially if you include a couple of machetes...

Think the original question[s] were if spearfishing is permitted, and can you free dive for lobster, yes if you free dive, and yes if they are in season, most people use a hook stick for the lobster. Do not go near other peoples shades or traps.

It is also ILLEGAL to actually spear a lobster any lobster found with a hole in it you run the risk of a lot of hassle and grief and a big fine the guide runs the risk of losing his license (if he actually has a license as taking tourists spearfishing is not the best choice and condoning the spearing of lobster shows the lack of professionalism of that guide)

I agree spearfishing should not be encouraged when we make our living off showing visitors the beauty of the underwater life and while on occasion we that live here sometimes go and catch our dinner it is understandable that if we took every tourist out spearfishing there would quickly be nothing left.

Dive safe

Gaz


Now I'm confused. Can I take lobster or not?? Gaz says its illegal but others say its ok.

It is legal to take legal sized lobster that do not have eggs during the season June 15-Feb 15. It is not legal to spear lobster the reason being if once it is speared and found to be undersized or with eggs, you cannot release it unharmed - the damage is already done. That is why most natives use what is called a hook stick - basically a small gaff. The procedure is to hook the lobster where the shell of the body meets the tail and then released if neccessary. The only problem with that is, the fisherman must be good enough to hook the lobster in the right place otherwise it can be damaged. As many of you know, in Florida you can use a snare, but that is too slow for commercial use thus the hook stick.

PS: this might be of further interest http://ambergriscaye.com/pages/goodscv/lobster.html

PPS: see sometimes we get a little information out along with the "bitching".

Wow, I don't check the board for a couple days and this string goes from 4 replies to 47!

Anyway, just to clarify a couple points...

Rykat, your example about the spearing of jewfish/goliath grouper is an excellent demonstration of why there has to be common sense limits to the hunting of fish. They are protected here in FL and have made a heck of a comeback, so much so that local spearfisherman here complain the renewed jewfish population is having an effect on the population of other gamefish. Sour grapes if you ask me. As an aside, I was troubled when I saw Cap'n Jeff's fishing pics including a small jewfish. That was a very juvenile example of what could be a 600 pound fish. I'm surprised that anyone would keep it, but that's why the law steps in to protect fish species when the fisherman won't. Then the fisherman will complain when they can't fish for this or that, or that there's no more fish to catch. The people I spear with no longer target red grouper voluntarily because they're seeing too much pressure. It's better for the rec. fisherman to back off than create a situation where the gov't has to step in to regulate.

Gaz, there is definately a time and place for everything. Spearfishing on Breakers reef in West Palm Beach FL (where I live) is a big no-no. There's no law against it, but being our best and most beautiful recreational dive reef the dive operators and the dive community have convinced even the line fisherman to leave this reef alone. I don't advocate spearing in areas that have appeal to the recreational diver or snorkeler. Also, it's good to have untouched areas to act as spawning areas to populate the rest of the area. Dive and snokel ops need to make a living too and want a healthy reef full of fish for their clients. We only spear for fish in areas well off shore that are not frequented by recreational divers because the topography isn't terribly beautiful and the visibility is usually lower than on the "showcase" reefs. Also, the only organized spearfishing trips I know of are of the blue water kind where serious freedivers look for big game. I don't think it would be sensible to promote organized spearfishing tours on any reef system. It would last about a year before the fish population was blown out.

Simon B, there are definately spearos that look for the biggest fish, but up here the bigger older fish are usually diseased. A 15 pound grouper is more than enough fish to eat while a 50 pounder is frequently wormy.

bywarren, I see your point too. It's easy to criticize rec. fisherman or spearfisherman, but doesn't anyone who consumes fish contribute to the problem by supporting teh commercial fisherman who typically used hi-bycatch methods? And we can attack the commercial fisherman, but many of them are trying to make a modest living themselves. It's a complex problem and maybe the answer is there's just too many people to feed. Someone made a good point that on land we would never consider wildlife to be a sustainable food source. How long would wild deer last if there were no regulations? In North America the buffalo was almost exterminated from hunting pressure. Why should we expect the wildlife of the ocean to be inexhaustable?

Catatonic, I agree with you 100%. Most spearfisherman love the ocean and want a healthy sustainable fishery with a long future. There are a few that are pure trophy hunters and they're commonly looked down upon and criticized. When the folks I dive with get 2 or 3 fish on the first dive they quit and grab the camera for the second dive. Waste not want not.

Sorry for starting such a hot topic but I thought there was some excellent debate as well. For the record let me state that I didn't ask my original question intending to come to AC to spear lobsters (not allowed anywhere I know of and a great way to bend a very expensive shaft, btw) or slaughter the local fish population or terrorize the women and children, lol. We all love the fruits that the seas has to offer whether it's a photograph or a fish on your plate. What's good to see is that everyone is concerned and cares about preserving this very precious resource.

See you in 2 weeks, AC!

Spleen

aaahhh - the voice of reason and reconciliation, you'll fit right in spleen - have a wonderful trip and happy eating!!