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#119135 - 03/12/06 04:37 PM Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
seashell Offline
I've read that the Ambergris Caye decompression chamber will not accept DAN insurance. What's up with that?
A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where will they build their nest?

#119136 - 03/13/06 02:39 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
Dan Carey Offline
&nbsp &nbsp seashell,
I'd be very surprised if the chamber would turn anyone away with DAN insurance. Have you asked DAN? They'll know if there's an issue and they'll tell you.

&nbsp &nbsp&nbsp &nbspDan
"Facts are the enemy of Truth"
Don Quixote

#119137 - 03/13/06 04:18 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
seashell Offline
The problems are not just with Ambergris Caye. There is a problem with a number of chambers that won't accept DAN insurance anymore because DAN owes them money. The list of chambers has been growing and on the last list I saw Belize had been added.

What DAN had to say about it in a blanket response, is that if any chamber won't accept their card, that the insured will still be covered. Regardless, insured divers just don't want to have to fork it over on their own credit card first and then be covered back later.

So at this point, I'm asking if anyone in San Pedro, that is affiliated with the chamber can tell me exactly what the San Pedro chamber's policy is with regard to DAN.
A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where will they build their nest?

#119138 - 03/13/06 06:01 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
Hi Sheryl. SSS will no longer accept DAN Americas insurance, though they're not inhumane - if you get bent they'll treat you but then require you to pay. This isn't vindictive - they've been forced into it. They operate 9 chambers around the world, including San Pedro, Playa del Carmen, Cozumel & Cancun (look at their website). Other DAN insurances are accepted, such as the DAN Europe cover that I and my business have. Some dive businesses' divers will have their DAN Americas insurance recognised, but the general rule is not, until the dispute is resolved. Basically, DAN Americas says that SSS's charges are too high, while SSS say that in the light of the environments their various chambers operate in their charges are reasonable.

One thing that most lay people don't realise is that there isn't one "DAN" - each one operates autonomously under a loose umbrella, and with insurance each offers its own products. DAN Europe and DAN Americas have totally different philosophies over insurance. For example, DAN Americas offer no professional cover, whereas DAN Europe have a range of excellent professional policies. But to qualify for insurance under any particular region you need a home in that region, or a business based in that region.

How do I know this? A director of my business is also a director of SSS.

#119139 - 03/13/06 07:05 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
seashell Offline
Thanks Pedro2! That makes sense. I think. I'm not quite sure why SSS thinks that San Pedro, Playa, Coz & Cancun are such rarefied environments but whatever. It's out of my hands, I guess. smile

I'm due to renew and so waffling.
A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where will they build their nest?

#119140 - 03/13/06 08:29 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
seashell Offline
Here's something I ran across. I guess it answers my own question, but just in case anyone else was also worrying:


We deeply regret that many DAN members and others in the diving community were the focus of a broadcast email campaign by the SSS Network. The latest statement from SSS is designed to intimidate and frighten DAN members, and much of the information is untrue, misleading and contradicts previous statements from chambers within the SSS Network. DAN and SSS are in dispute over the excessive treatment charges, which DAN believes are not reasonable and customary in comparison to other hyperbaric chambers and will damage the diving industry long term if not addressed now. By refusing to accept DAN insurance, SSS is attempting to place the burden of payment on the diver in order to gain leverage to force DANís insurer to accept higher treatment charges.

We find it hard to believe that SSS facilities would be closing due to insurance issues involving DANís insurer. SSS has claimed that insurance purchased through DAN represents only a small percentage of their business. They have now stated that some of this is being driven by a slowdown in diving travel, especially to dive locations that experienced hurricane and tsunami damage. DAN has always supported remote facilities through our Recompression Chamber Assistance Program (RCAP). This program is part of the not-for-profit mission of DAN, and provides equipment to help chambers remain fully operational so they can remain open and viable and assist divers in need without having to resort to overcharging injured divers.

The recent SSS press release implies that there is something suspicious about Accident & General Insurance, Ltd. (AGI), a wholly-owned subsidiary of DAN that underwrites a portion of the diver accident insurance purchased through DAN. On the contrary, DAN has referenced AGI in all of its publications and presentations about DAN. Revenue generated by AGI supports DANís mission activities including medical services and research. No DAN employees receive compensation from AGI.

DAN has worked hard to bring this dispute to an equitable resolution. A court date is set for early May 2006. A mediation session is scheduled for late March. The tactics employed by SSS are unfortunate choices in a dispute that we choose to handle in a more professional manner. While SSS keeps changing its position (see DAN website for a chronological records of their statements), DAN has always maintained a consistent message and approach to the issue:

A. DAN Members will be treated at all SSS recompression chambers
B. DAN Members with Dive Accident Insurance purchased through DAN are fully covered
C. In the event of a dive injury, call the DAN Emergency Hotline immediately
D. DAN will handle all the necessary matters and no DAN member will be out of pocket

DAN has been here to protect divers for over 25 years and during that time we have been true to our mission to keep divers and our sport as safe as possible. We will continue to do so. DAN is and will remain ĎYour Dive Safety Associationí."
A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where will they build their nest?

#119141 - 03/14/06 10:28 AM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
Dan Carey Offline
&nbsp &nbsp pedro2,
do the local dive shops employ the minimal chamber charge that we see at other dive locations? You know how it goes, something like $1 from every dive is set aside for chamber insurance. I had thought that the dive shops on Ambergris Caye had a program like that, but I might be mistaken.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dan
"Facts are the enemy of Truth"
Don Quixote

#119142 - 03/14/06 01:57 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
There are two aspects - what the diver pays the dive center and what the dive center pays the Chamber.

The first is US$1 per tank, but several dive centers (including mine) don't collect this, but cover it from the dive cost.

The second was and still commonly is paid to the Chamber at a rate of US$1 per tank for all the divers that month. Some dive centers, again including mine, instead pay a monthly lump sum assessed by the Chamber based on their general level of business. This is preferred by the Chamber as it makes their income more predictable.

This monthly lump sum is just another overhead for us and several others, but as economic pressures here increase you can expect to see dive centers which until now haven't passed on the charge directly starting to do so.

#119143 - 03/14/06 02:42 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
Bobber Offline
I am familiar with the $1 a tank, or in some places a dollar a day chamber fees. So, question is, does that mean that a person diving with such associated operations who collect and/or pay a chamber fee are covered for any incidents requiring the use of the chamber? If so, where does the DAN insurance come in? I recall seeing it referred to as used for transport back to the States (or wherever) if necessary. So, if the chamber fee covers use of the chamber, why does it matter if the recipient has DAN coverage?
Been there, done that, the washing machine ate the T-shirt

#119144 - 03/15/06 03:30 PM Re: Any truth to what I'm reading about DAN insurance?
Dan Carey Offline
&nbsp &nbsp Casa Caracol,
I'd be inclined to agree with you. It's a good idea to have insurance. It's also a good idea, in my opinion, to join DAN even if you don't need the insurance. DAN supports research into hyperbaric medicine, which is a very good cause. Hyperbaric medicine has applications outside of SCUBA, so I'll support DAN long after my diving days are over.

My dive horror story: On my first trip to Truk, the return flight was delayed while a patient was loaded aboard. This fellow had been bent the day before, but the flights to Guam are every two days so he had to wait. We flew to Guam at a relatively low altitude, which burns a lot of extra fuel especailly in a 727. The air evacuation and chamber ride had to have been costly for him. I don't know how complete his recovery was.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dan
"Facts are the enemy of Truth"
Don Quixote


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