As I have just seen about the info and the plugs by everyone on this board, that it has been lost in space!!! I agree with some of you all but some I don't, and if I offend someone or somebodies here I am sincerely sorry about that... But only a few people know this...

Our last trip down to Belize, we were on a boat for a tour of the island, and we were coming thru a cut by Basil Jones and we were overturned by a unforseeen wave... (Which a might add happens from time to time there).. It was kinda ruff out there the day we took this tour, BUT we sincerely TRUSTED OUR TOUR GUIDE !!!! (which is a very good friend of ours).. (and hold no responsibility too)( It was our choice to go).. On the way in from the outside we were riding a 10' wave, and got caught by a freak wave, which overturned the boat.. I was thrown over the boat and my wife was caught up underneath the boat.. when I noticed she didn't surface I went under and pulled her out.. The guide was telling us to get the life jackets and put them on.. I did but my wife could only hang on to one, because of the fear she felt of dying... When she was under the boat, she was disorriented and couldn't see light, she was going to accept this and take her last breath which would have been water... until she felt something pulling her leg. she thought it was someone trying to get up from the bottom.. but it was me trying to get her from under the boat... after that we were pounded by 10-12 ft. swells until we reach the reef, then we were cut up by the reef coming over.. after that, workers from basil jones saw what had happened and came to our rescue... God bless them... I chaulk this up to a good experience.. for God has something better in mind for us instead of leaving us there to die on the reef...

The only reason I'm posting this is due to the conversations, that has been conducted on this message board about the diving accident..

God and Mother nature have their course, at least with us, and you have to respect them, you never know when you time is to go..

We all make our choices on what we do in life...

At any point in life, especially here in the states you can be gone.. ie: shot, car accident, health, random stuff, etc...

All I have to say is that we are well and we Thank the Lord for taken care of us, God bless..

Some of you out there in syberspace have some reason to down Belize.. but I'm sure where you live would be downed alot more if it had its owned message board..

We should feel very lucky that there is this forum and board that gives us info on a place some of us have never been or have been alot of times...

I feel very lucky to have this forum to talk in, and read.. I agree everyone has there own opinion, but where can you go and find out about a world most of us don't even know about!!!!!!

I'm writing this not to scare anyone off from going to Belize, but to inform them that things do happen, and it seems that if one thing goes wrong in Belize its the world, but if you look on what is going on here in states and the world of more populated areas, it dosen't even make the news...????????????

OK enough-- I just wanted to say after all of this, Our prayers go out to the Delgado family and friends, and also to the staff at Ramon's.....and to the people of the island...

No one is at fault, God has a plan for us, most of us don't know what it is yet....

God Bless,

Thanks, Rick

[This message has been edited by rickcheri (edited 08-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rickcheri (edited 08-17-2001).]

Great points, Rick, coming from a very real and personal experience that forturatly had a good ending. Thanks for sharing that. You bring home in a very chilling way that there can be acts of God that we have no control over. My concerns that I expressed in the edited forums, were that there are acts of God and there are accidents. Accidents are most often caused by the actions of individuals and we must be held accountalbe for our actions if they hurt others. I accept the primise that we are the ones that choose to dive and are ultimatly the ones responsible. But, we must carry that premise to the next step, that being if our actions hurt someone else, their must be accountability. I too care very much about Belize and hope that thru experience, even if it is a bad experience, good things can come.

this is Cheri, and i, for one, do not believe in accidents/coincidences....God gave us "free will" to do as we choose. But it MUST be understood that our choices=certain results/consequences. Bad things do happen to good people. And when they do, a Higher Power is there to help give us strength and courage. Being caught underneath that boat was a result of a bad choice....choosing to go thru a channel (a tricky one, as i understand) in VERY rough waters. We indeed are very blessed people, our conseqeunces could have been much different. Sometimes it's just so that OTHERS learn from our "results of decisions". I know I learned....I'll NEVER EVER EVER go back thru that particular cut again!!!! LOL C BELIZE BOUND FOR HALLOWEEN!!!!!

[This message has been edited by rickcheri (edited 08-17-2001).]

Rick and Cheri...
So glad that things turned out the way they did for you guys. A scary experience no doubt. God's way of reminding us how small we are!

I had a near-drowning experience in the summer of 1999 in Pensacola, Fl. before I moved to Belize.

I had lived in Pensacola all my life and spent time at the beach every summer. I worked the emergency rooms in Pensacola for many years and near-drowning cases were frequent every summer. I used to say...."These tourist tourist come down here every year and don't understand about our undertow....get out too far and then get in trouble."

Well.....after all the years of being in the water.....I got in an undertow situation.
I can honestly say now...that it can happen to anyone. Certain areas are washouts where the waves run into sandbars. If you get into one of these and your feet don't touch bottom...you are in trouble. Problem is.....it all happens so fast...that by the time you realize you are in trouble....it's already too late unless you are a good swimmer and physically fit.

I knew how to get out of it....it had been drilled into my head for years..."Swim parallel to the shore until you are out of it and then come in"....like a broken record.
That's great advice unless you're too tired to swim.

I was about 2 seconds from going under....and scared as hell....I couldn't breath b/c I was so scared and had hyperventilated....air was trapped in my lungs. I finally got the attention of someone with me and we just locked fingertips.....a big wave came in and he pulled me in far enough for my tiptoes to reach bottom.

I got into shore....but it took a good hour and some controlled breathing techniques for me to recover.

In hind sight, what stuck in my mind the most....is how fast it all happened...and how small I felt.
Water is a powerful thing...and I have a whole new respect for it. I felt an inch tall out there in that big ocean...and knew there was no way I would win on my own account. It obviously was not my time to go.
Call it fate, Divine intervention...whatever. Some survive and some don't. I figured my number wasn't up.
Thank God!

I now know without a doubt what my limitations are and I never put myself in a situation where that would ever happen again. Safety in the water is my first thought....and if I don't feel safe...I get my ass out! No matter who I'm with. I have the knowledge to know what I am supposed to do...and that is what I do.

My first dive in Belize was very scary. I made arrangements to go by myself with Tulu from Coral Beach Dive Shop. Didn't want to go with a group...was afraid I would panic and ruin their trip. He took me...and we did a very slow controlled dive. Plan was to enter the water...go straight to the rope.....and chill. Get my gear situated....control my breathing..and just relax....with the safety of the rope.
In about 3 minutes...I was fine.....and we had a wonderful dive. Seventy-five ft. for 58 minutes.....and still had 600psi left when I came up....not bad for a nervous old woman...LOL

After that...I was fine....but I will never look at water the same again....it is THE BOSS!

Cheers!

[This message has been edited by Sandshaker (edited 08-17-2001).]

I'm happy for you all that you feel that way, as I suspect that your views will never 'need' deleting.

I will no longer bother to give my opinion. It has become obvious to me that my views concerning diving safety, no matter how honestly held, are not welcome.

I'll still post when I think I can help answer someone's questions, like how to set up banking or what to bring to AC.

[This message has been edited by Florian (edited 08-17-2001).]

GEEZE.........

Florian....I have enjoyed reading all of your posts. As you will notice, I generally read and not post.

My fear of the water is the only thing that has prevented me from learning to dive or do other water sports (Sanshaker, your story gives em knots in my stomach!). I come from a family with a long line of surfers and water lovers....you should have seen me snorkeling the reef and shark ray alley and realizing that my feet could not touch bottom in most places....yikes!! Go figure my love for islands though?

I'm glad to hear that you folks survived that scary experience....it's so weird to think that when you wake up in the morning you simply have no idea what God's plan is for you that day.

Florian, please do not take things so personally. Your contribution is always welcomed. I belive that this dive safety discussion is really valuable, but perhaps some sensitivity to the diver who lost his life there must still be given. I know that these discussions are meant to foster awareness and promote safe diving practices but allowing a person's death to provide a platform for a safety discussion is somewhat in poor taste so soon after his death. THis opinion is probably not shared by many, but I feel kind of bad when I see all this discussion going on about accountability and DM responsibiltiy and regard for personal safety.....it just makes me feel sad. Maybe the topic just needs a break for awhile.

Florian, don't give up!! Say what you have to say and we'll enjoy the convos for as long as they last. You aren't a quitter, I know you aren't!

Well, I was talking about safety well before the receints accidents. I have, I think rather tactfully, refrained from saying "I told you so".

I've tried, with one notable exception, to keep my comments by and large of a general nature. I think I've made it appearent that I'm not so much interested in talking about any one specific accident, but rather diving safety in general, with the notion that discussion of such a nature could have some small effect in the positive to the same.

But here is the thing. I saw things in AC I thought were not good diving practices. Others have seen the same thing.

AC gets a 'poor' rating from me, in general, concerning the safety of the operations there. Largely because, as I preceive it, some rather remote and semi-extreme diving is being treated like it's McDonalds.

It would be ironic if the recent accidents were used as a reason to discontinue a previous discussion of safe diving practices.

I am, all the same, tired of having my posts deleted. I'll give it a break for now. I'll come back to it later or something.

I seem to think they are trying to play ostrich and keep their heads in the sand. They do not want to let others read about what has happened there, they just want to bury it and hope it all goes away.

Thank you Rick, Cheri, and Tammy for your real life accounts of near death experiences. I used to subscribe to a Scuba magazine, and it became so commercial with scuba destinations and green neon scuba gear that I let my prescriptin lapse. The only page I'd read was a regular column written by actual divers about how they got in trouble. It always impressed me that these situations didn't happen because of major problems, but by several minor situations, that became compounded. These minor situations were not respected, and these diver's would get in big trouble. I don't know what happened out there on that dive. Maybe no one does! It is a very serious, and unfortunately so easy, to assign blame when something happens like this. None of us were there. I would agree that a blue hole dive is not a dive for novices and/or "resort certified" guppies.

acbb - i am just like you. the first time i snorkeled was ramon's peir, and i was terrified! cheri & ss - you have lived thru my worst nightmare, literally.

my only comment is: that one of the profound troubles of this world (particularly the US)is the lack people's ability to take responsibility for their own actions. period.

rick said it well. in each situation, no one chained them up and made them go, it was a free choice.

Hey you all-
Thanks for the comments-- Cheri and I are doing well and we thank the big guy upstairs for that... But even though we all have some experiences that are not welcome to us, we do our best to survive.. Now look at last year with the hurricane.. Alot of people lost everything, including lives... But us up here joined together and made a fantasitic relief effort... I hope that when my wife and I finally move to the island that, that support is still there.. no matter what is going on... I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone has their opinions about certain subjects, but when the dice are down, we all should bond together and do what it takes to get something done, and not to start alot of crap.. sorry my opinion... Don't mean to offend anyone.. One love....WE All can get along.. Sorry to be so fifififi, but We all love the island so we all should love each other... Thanks for listen... Rick

It's "Big Guy Upstairs". If you mean God.

Florian- I'm sorry I didn't put it in caps, but what are you lookin for, I fight my fights in a different forum... Rick

rickcheri, I thought you guys said you had a sense of humor? I'm reasonably sure it was intended as a humorous remark.

As you said, let's lighten up a bit.

You bet seashell, I'm smiling and winking!!!! LOL Rick

Rick & Cheri,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm so glad it turned out the way it did and that you're all OK. I was going to try to make it down for the Halloween bash, but circumstances seem to prevent - I'll probably be there earlier in Oct. Would still love to meet you guys sometime!

Florian,
I second the "don't give up" sentiment someone else (sorry, short term memory loss - scary for a 29yo) expressed. You've addressed many issues that people need to be aware of and consider. I for one am grateful and hope that when and if I take up diving it will be a safe and enjoyable experience b/c I will do my best to heed to all the good advice and warnings I've read from you & others. I also hope to work with a divemaster who considers it his/her responsibility that I am safe when diving with them. Looking forward to meeting you at the Tulsa party when/if it gets off the ground.

Ciao!

Rick & Cheri! I am so glad you are okay. I also was caught in a undertow in big waves here in California right next to the Huntington Beach Pier and almost did not make it. Luckely back than (10 years ago)I was super fit and swam out of it but almost did not make it. I was totally excausted and the waves kept dunking me. I was new to the Pacific Ocean and thought big waves are fun. Well now I have a different opinion on that. The whole time I was trying to get back to shore I just thought please no life guards. That would have been very embarassing being a German Tourist. I learned my lesson but still love the ocean. What does not kill you just makes you stronger!!!!

I've waited to wade in here. I had written a post about newbies diving the Blue Hole and it was one that was edited out. Now I feel compelled to speak up.
Cozumel, like Belize, attracts a lot of new divers. I had less than 50 dives when I went there the first time and it was my first warm water experience. I made some mistakes and paid for them. Fortunately the diving was not deep. I didn't blame the operators or my dive buddies. However, even then there were dive sites where they would take only advanced divers. It had nothing to do with the card you were carrying. It had to do with them watching you for a few days and knowing your skill level.
There are a lot of things you will never learn in a course, but only by continued education and experience.
I devoured Dive Training Magazines for about 3 years. It is directed towards the new diver and covers all those situations that an instructor just does not have time to do. I don't know if they still do but they used to have a crossword puzzle in the back and the answers all came directly out of articles in that issue. What a great way to learn.

Cozumel used to be as lax about diving guidelines as Belize is now -- and that is NOT slamming Belize -- it simply is a fact. Then something happened. I don't think any of us will ever know but the difference between one year and the next was amazing. There were lots of people complaining "We never had to do that before," but it was clear that something BIG had come down and all the operators were following very stringent rules of safety. Maybe Belize will learn for this unfortunate incident.

As I've said before, I WILL NOT go to the Blue Hole for a number of reasons.
#1 EVERYONE takes new divers. I do not want to be on a boat when someone gets hurt.
#2 There is really nothing worth seeing except the Bull Sharks which are the most aggressive sharks in the world. If you want to see stalagmites go to the caves.
#3 I will not, nor do I expect anyone else to risk their life to save mine. Underwater photographers are notorious for not paying attention to their gauges. I left my best friend to die at 90' on a wreck in Palau.

We had been deeper and there are not many minutes of air in a tank below 100' (remember it is compress and becomes more compress the deeper you go). When I looked at my computer I had 7 minutes. I tapped her and she shrugged me off. At 6 minutes I took hold of her elbow and she got really mad. At 5 minutes I pulled hard on her fin and she kicked me. You see, she is a macro photographer and was waiting for some little thing to get in just the right position for her picture.

So, I started a very slow ascent, which bought me more air time. At 70' I hung for 3 minutes to get my computer back into the green. Most of the other divers were ascending way above me. Then I again started up slowly. All this time I am watching her. When she pulled back and looked at her gauge I could feel the terror go through her whole body and she started up, not as slowly as she should have. She caught up with me at about 50' and we very slowly progressed up to the 15' safety stop zone. Since this was a wreck we had a line tied off where we could hang relaxed without bouncing up and down.
Fortunately for her she is a skinny little thing and doesn't use as much air as I do. Another diver who had been too deep too long came up and they did a 15 minute decompression stop together.
Yes, she is alive and still one of my best friends. No, she didn't get bent or an air embolism as she had about 15 years experience. No, she did not get mad at me, she said she would have done the same thing.

Unfortunately the whole country of Belize promotes the Blue Hole as the #1 attraction. I wish there was a way that people would have to pass a deep diving test where there is a bottom at 135' so when they get narced there is no place deeper for them to go. That is one of the requirements for an Advanced Open Water Certification.

Yes, safety needs to be talked about. And when things are not right something needs to be done to correct them.

Harriette Fisher
BELIZE ME!

Good for you, Harriette and well said. Your story was very illustrative of the point of being responsible for yourself. You do the best you can for another but ultimately . . .

I must admit, I had wondered why you hadn't spoken up before. Perhaps when you are living in SP, you can help to make a difference.

Regards.

scubaldy,

Thanks for a great insight. It isn't always black and white, is it?