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#140430 - 11/26/01 03:11 AM 3221 year old bird list
Elbert Greer Offline
3,221 year old birdlist

Your going to have a little trouble believing this, as I did at first, especially when you see the length, detail and birds on the list, You?ll have even less faith in believing who?s list it is. Most of these birds, 70% of the list, can be found on ambergris, 20% are unknown today or extinct. I?ve researched and verified the translation in Greek, Hebrew and King James English. There are differences of course but small.
I discovered it by accident. Sometimes I see things in print that are not intended to be funny but end up humorous untentionally. I was persuing one of these. I clicked on the December edition cover of Sport Diver Magazine. The caption read ?Worlds largest Grouper?, but pictured was what I know to be a? Jew Fish?.
So I read the story looking for a mistaken ID and discovered Jews had appealed to the ?American Fishes Society? to rename the fish because they felt the name Jew Fish was offensive. I thought, OK! That?s not bad perhaps it is offensive, but the new official name is ?Goilath Grouper?, and that struck me funny. As I remember my Bible studies, I recall Goilath being slain by David, a young soldier in the Israeli army, and Giolath being a Philistine champion from Gath a village in what is now Palestine. So yes the Jews where offended by the name of this fish so they had it changed to be named after a Palestinian. I think that?s funny, but what the Hell, I?m a heathen. Anyway while doing a web search of where philistine and Palestine connect, surfing through Leviticus in the old testament of the Bible, and up pops a bird list that Jehovah gave Moses, I told you we?re going to have trouble believing this, and just wait till you see the list. At first I thought I had a virus but there it was a 3,221-year-old bird list God gave Moses.
Most everyone knows about pork and the Hebrews, how god gave the law to Moses to pass along. Old Testament, Leviticus, chapter 11 verses 9- 11 and most roman catholic fisherman know about verse 12, eat only things from the sea that have fins and scales. But few know about verse13.
?Among the birds these are the ones you may not eat:
Eagle
Metire (Ossifrage, king James) unknown
Osprey
Falcon (all kinds)
Kite
Raven (all kinds)
Ostrich
Night Hawk
Seagull
Hawk (all kinds)
Owl (spec.Great Owl K.J.Ver.)
Cormorant
Ibis
Marsh Hen (extinct)
Pelican
Vulture
Stork
Herons (all kinds)
Hoopoe ( Lapwing K.J.Ver.)
Bat

Lets look at the list,
Taxonomy wasn?t born yet. This was 3000 years before Carl Litmus?s time, and I would guess Moses some how got a bat on his bird list. If anyone out there knows what a lapwing or Hoopoe is please call me. I suspect if a bat made the list they might not necessarily have to be birds, just flying things.
I compared the list in Greek with English and a literal translation of Hebrew to English.
I?m stumped as to what a Metire is but in Greek it?s an Ossifrage but I don?t know that bird either. Some of the translations included extra birds such as: ?Little Owl?, as well as ?Great?, Cuckow? which I believe to be a Marsh Hen?,? Swan?, ?Gier Eagle?, and ?Buzzard?.
Verses 14-19 go on with details of things we shouldn?t do with them other than have them for dinner, such as touching their dead bodies or eating crops grown from where their dead bodies fell.
Summary.
Wow! Doesn?t this bring up a lot of questions? Why these birds? What about the birds who aren?t on the list? Or could this list be all the birds that where known at the time? What?s OK about a wren, sparrow or dove? Why would God not want us to have anything to do with these birds inparticular? The Bible was translated from Hebrew and parts from Greek to English things are always lost in translations. Gallis is and Old World word for Chicken and I?m sure Belizeans are relived its not on the list.
If you still find all this hard to believe reach into the top drawer of the nightstand beside the bed in your hotel room. Look it up for yourself, it?s an awesome bird book.
end

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#140431 - 11/26/01 05:06 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
Sandcrab Offline
Now that's what I call good detective work.
That is a very interesting list Elbert.

Thanks for the read,

Jim
_________________________
**Jim

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#140432 - 11/26/01 05:10 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
tiny mayan Offline
Hello Elbert.

The Hoopoe is a European bird with tan, black and white markings and a tall crest. I'm not sure of its entire range, but i think it can be found in certain parts of Italy. However, there is more than one species of Hoopoe. Madagascar also has a species.

Thanks for posting that interesting article. The funny thing is, once in school a girl mentioned to me that her favorite "bird" was a bat. She said this on the basis that the bat was a creature that could fly.

heh...education.

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#140433 - 11/26/01 06:34 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
kimberly matson Offline
Pigs were unclean because of what they ate and the diseases they carried. Perhaps the listed birds were forbidden because they were carion eaters or were vectors for disease?

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#140434 - 11/26/01 06:58 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
Mosquitorose Offline
Elbert, great subject. Amazing all that information in the bible. The Ossifrage belongs to the largest tribe of bearded vultures. I could not find a picture of it. The Lapwing..a most beautiful bird, I have a pic of it.

A stunning bird. The wispy crest, bottle-green back and a black-and-white head pattern are hard to mistake. On the wing, the slow flapping flight is equally distinctive. Hundreds gather on fields and coastlines during winter, many are visitors from Russia. Evocative calls, too.

I'm not giving up on the Ossifrage...will find a pic of it yet.

I believe in ancient time the bible was a book of knowledge of both the spiritual and physical body. The annimals and birds listed of which we are not to eat are....either unclean...because of what they eat, or because of something in their body. For instance the blow fish ( I think). If the cook doesn't cut a certain part of it out...a person eating it will die, even if only a tiny piece of it is left inside.

On another note...all belize fishermen still call that fish jew fish. I can't think of anyone who calls it otherwise. lol

MR

[This message has been edited by Mosquitorose (edited 11-25-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mosquitorose (edited 11-25-2001).]
_________________________
Love is a many splendid thing and food runs a close second.

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#140435 - 11/26/01 09:36 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
Mosquitorose Offline
Elbert, here is some research I've done on the Ossifrage.
Also called, "Lammergeier": lam·mer·gey·er NOUN: A large predatory bird (Gypaetus barbatus) of the vulture family, ranging from the mountainous regions of southern Europe to China and having a wide wingspan and black plumage. Also called bearded vulture, ossifrage.

lammergeier's signature behavior: breaking bones and hard shelled turtles by dropping them on rocks from high in the air.
The crack of the bone is audible from some distance away. Immediately, the lammergeier turns into the wind, spiraling down towards the scattered bone fragments, alighting within a few seconds of the crack. In this way, the lammergeier forestalls other scavengers from robbing the fragments. It will repeat the process up to three times, often having to fly for several miles to gain height for another gliding approach.

Although dropping bones is a regular habit, the lammergeier also obtains food by other means. The bird has been known to lift and carry such live prey as a two foot monitor lizard. For the most part, however, the Lammergeier is a bird of unashamed cowardice, ready to take advantage of any animal in distress, incapable of defending itself against a creature half its own size and frightened at the wink of an eyelid. There is, however, nothing uncouth about a lammergeier. It is sinister, yet magnificent and dignified.

Ossifrage - Heb. peres = to "break" or "crush", the lammer-geier, or bearded vulture, the largest of the whole vulture tribe. It was an unclean bird (Lev. 11:13; Deut. 14:12). It is not a gregarious bird, and is found but rarely in Palestine. "When the other vultures have picked the flesh off any animal, he comes in at the end of the feast, and swallows the bones, or breaks them, and swallows the pieces if he cannot otherwise extract the marrow. The bones he cracks [hence the appropriateness of the name ossifrage, i.e., "bone-breaker"] by letting them fall on a rock from a great height. He does not, however, confine himself to these delicacies, but whenever he has an opportunity will devour lambs, kids, or hares. These he generally obtains by pushing them over cliffs, when he has watched his opportunity; and he has been known to attack men while climbing rocks, and dash them against the bottom. But tortoises and serpents are his ordinary food...No doubt it was a lammer-geier that mistook the bald head of the poet AEschylus for a stone, and dropped on it the tortoise which killed him" (Tristram's Nat. Hist.).

Got a pic.

MR

[This message has been edited by Mosquitorose (edited 11-26-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mosquitorose (edited 11-26-2001).]
_________________________
Love is a many splendid thing and food runs a close second.

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#140436 - 11/27/01 02:01 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
kimberly matson Offline
MR, you are a wealth of information! Thanks for the ancient natural history lesson.

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#140437 - 11/27/01 02:05 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
Elbert Greer Offline
You guys are a great source of bird info for me ,I've found a new source.
How did you do it ?
I've got a literal library of bird books and was stumped.
Thanks
Elbert

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#140438 - 11/27/01 04:08 AM Re: 3221 year old bird list
Mosquitorose Offline
You're welcome guys. I do most of my research on the web...thats why I got this PC lol. I love knowledge....and found the bird thing interesting that Elbert sent in. `I got so involeve in it that I spent two hour on the net trying to find the info for the ossifrage. It was hard to find...but I don't give up easily. Need a new challenge now...anyone?

MR
_________________________
Love is a many splendid thing and food runs a close second.

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#140439 - 11/29/01 08:23 PM Re: 3221 year old bird list
forick Offline
Mosquitorose,

Although I do not research wildlife as avidly as you I am vitally interested. I have always had a deep respect for wildlife esp birds. I enjoy watching their antics on my front lawn and in my travels.

Buy the way if you do a lot of internet research do you have any ideas for me regarding how to find corporate fine art buyers? I realize this is off the subject but it is something I'm trying to work on this week and am getting no where fast.

forick

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