We are planning our first trip to Belize. We are looking at Nekton, Peter Hughes and the Agressor Fleet. Any bad experiences?Does anyone have a prefference and why? We are planning this trip for March. Is this a good month or is there a potential for any bad weather? Would another time be better?

March can be pretty windy. The clearest water (and warmest) underwater time is a bit later in the year - May-June-July.
Peter Huges's organization has been at the center of some heated debate in Belize.

A friend of mine went on the Nekton - his only complaint was that it did not go to the Blue Hole.

Diane, I love the way you can be so diplomatic, "heated debate". OK tiadude, do a search here under Wavedancer. Twenty people died on Peter Hughes boat due to poor judgment at best and gross negligence at worst. Do your "homework".

Yep, I'd say those 20 poor souls who died on the Peter Hughes boat back of Placencia last October had a pretty damn bad experience.

--Lan Sluder

By,
I would love to jump on this one but experience with this board begs me to voice my opinions face to face. Rick of the Katkandu TMM charters is free lancing since Iris because of poor judgement AGAIN on the part of the Corporation. These people just don't get it I guess. They bent up a bunch of boats again. Their insurance co.'s must be getting pissed.Go figure.
Jim

Who is this new Jim guy pretending to be Jim from Pier Lounge holding back on speaking his mind? Whoever you are, you can't fool me. I know the real Jim. He has a mind and he speaks.

After suggesting to tiadude he do a search and read about the Wavedancer incident, I went back and read some myself. I was reminded of what a heated debate took place under the topic of "supporting the Wavedancer victims". In that discussion a number of people took the position that until the investigation was complete and the results were made public, as the Belize Government promised, no blame should be placed on the Hughes operation or the captain. I am curious as to whether a report has ever been made public, and if so, what the report indicated that would vindicate the Hughes operation and convince the Belize Government to allow him to resume operation in Belize. Has anyone heard anything about this or the law suits that were filed?

Okay, okay, okay, I remember the Wavedancer incident and I too am undecided, until further investigations are published, as to who is to blame. I really appreciate this point being brought up but does anyone have any other advice or opinions about these or any other operators? Any advice about the diving in general? I am completely new to the liveaboard thing and I don't want to regret the trip.

Thanks!!!

haven't been on a Hughes boat yet. I'm booked to go on the Aggressor boat in February. I've been on few other aggressor boats and always had a great trip. Crew always pleasant, great food, and wonderful diving. I'll be able to tell you how it my trip was when I get back, but that will probably be too late for you to book for March.

haven't been on a Hughes boat yet. I'm booked to go on the Aggressor boat in February. I've been on few other aggressor boats and always had a great trip. Crew always pleasant, great food, and wonderful diving. I'll be able to tell you how it my trip was when I get back, but that will probably be too late for you to book for March.

I am amused by anyone who thinks the government will make a decision on allowing someone to do business in Belize based on their safety practices (as opposed to the extent to which they demonstrate the requisite "gratitude" towards the powers that be for the privilege...)

As I see it (a non diver married to a diver), the main purpose of a liveaboard vacation on a dive boat is to have a vacation that focuses exclusively on diving, and allows the participants to have as little contact as possible with non-divers and locals.
If that is not how you see your visit, it would be my advice to avoid the liveaboard and instead come to AC, stay at a local hotel and take day dive trips and one or two overnight trips on one of the larger local dive boats.

Yes, I understand the victims of the Wavedancer had a really good hurricane party before they died. Probably good food, served by friendly people, and good diving also.

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 09-06-2002).]

Susangg,
Yes, the purpose of a liveaboard dive boat is so you can focus on diving. As far as having little contact with the locals and nondivers.....well, that would be true if a diver arrived at the airport,went straight to the boat. (Now I can only speak for myself and other divers I have contact with). More often then not, a trip does extend beyond the time spent on the liveaboard. So for myself, I will be arriving 4 days before the boat leaves and staying another 4 days after the docks. So 8 wonderful days to explore the 'dry side' of the world.
(Actually, I'll be getting married on AC during the final 4 days on land).

As far as the Hughes incident, a friend of mine was on the Aggressor boat that was docked right next to the Wavedancer when it flipped. The Aggressor boat divers and crew assisted in the rescue of those they could. I'm sure, something he will never forget.
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[This message has been edited by divediva (edited 09-06-2002).]

Keep in mind, the Aggressor Captain made the same decision as the Wavedancer. That being to keep the passengers on board as opposed to sending them to the shelter inland that was offered. He was just a little more lucky. When it comes to taking care of my well being and safety, I am not sure I adhere to the adage, "better lucky than good".

Se~nor By,
I know you know Cap'n Tom and Glenn from Rendevous Estates. They were in that harbor that night and BEGGED the people to leave that boat. They chose to stay for the hurricane party. They also had the grim task of dragging thier bodies from the sea in the morning. Thats on video. If I recall Glenn had the opportunity to break the nose of the UPI guy that asked him "How does that make you feel" Good for him.
It is a shame that the whole thing happened but some people won't rest until someoone is at the end of a noose. Hugh is dead and this tragedy probably killed him. Is everyone happy now? Life goes on--Susan don't even start!!!

The local dive boats have a different approach to safety than corporate owned liveaboards.
The local guys usually work their own boats. Their crew are usually relatives or people they have known for years. They know the weather because they live here (which includes knowing that weather is always unpredictable.) They know better than to sail into a bad storm, let alone a tropical storm or a hurricane.
If they miss a day or two of business because the weather isn't safe, that's OK, because the storm will pass, and there will be more business tomorrow or the next day.
For all those reasons, they are much more trustworthy when it comes to safety than the corporate liveaboard owners. They are not going to risk their own lives, the lives of their crew and the future of their families for a quick buck.

Jim, I agree with most of what you say. I talked with both Capt'n Tom and Glen about it. And, Hugh will be missed. He was a credit to the tourist and diving industry.

What bothers me and why I do not think things should be left to rest, is when a tradgedy like this happens, one of the few positive things that can come from it is lessons should be learned. There is an attitude in Belize, one that I think will be detrimental to Belize and it's people in the future if not changed, that when something bad happens like the Wavedancer tradgedy or the ever increasing Blue Hole deaths, if it is not investigated and people are not held responsible then it will go away and things will get back to the way they were and all will be forgotten.
If the Belize Government and the people in the tourist industry in Belize continue to foster that attitude, they are going to bring alot of harm to their country and their industry in long term.
And Susan, once in a great while you amaze me. You are "dead" right on this one. I can remember when on AC there were only San Pedronos guiding tourists. Not even other Belizeans. Ask Larry Parker about the grief he went thru when he started his "Gringo" dive bussiness. Well, if memory serves me correct, I do not remember too many accidents back then. Now you can attribute more accidents to more tourists. But, I wonder what the correlation is to more accidents and more "outside" involvement. I am by no means saying that everyone other than San Pedronos are not competant. There are some very good and safety minded people in the industry. I will still choose to have Jose Gonzales guide me. He has worked at keeping me alive for 33 years. Pretty hard work at times. I, as Susan, truly believe that most of the Belize people put the safety and enjoyment of their guest ahead of the $$. That is what bring so many of us back time and again. I question some others.

PS: Clarification on Larry Parker. I was not infering that he was not competant. My point was, the San Pedronos were very reluctant to allow "outsiders" to take out tourists. Maybe the Belize Government and tourist industry should adopt some of that same scrutiny.

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 09-07-2002).]

If I recall correctly, one statement made by the captain of Peter Hughes' Wave Dancer was that "the passengers voted to stay" on the boat through the hurricane. I think this probably amounts to felony stupidity on the part of all concerned.

It should be noted that the STAFF tried to leave and were threatened with job loss if they did so - two of the local female staff who begged to leave the Wavedancer are also among the dead.

Any time a captain (who is supposed to have experience) asks passengers (on vacation and drinking) to vote on safety issues, you have a really questionable situation even if nobody ends up getting hurt. Even in good weather, if you sense that you have a bad captain, get off the boat.
Another basic safety note - get off a boat if a storm is coming - even if you miss a couple of dives and your vacation expectations are not completely fulfilled.

Right Diane, the responsibilities of the captain of a ship are no different than those of the captain of an airplane. I cannot count the number of times the captain on the 747 I was on came back and took a vote on whether or not to fly into an oncoming storm.

Well-put By! With all this talk about storms and safety I just added several items to my grocery list ....... time to go shopping for yucky food in cans and boxes "just in case".

Tiadude (if you're still reading)...I'll throw gasoline onto this fire by trying to direct the discussion back to information relative to your concerns.

You've probably made your decision to do a liveaboard trip based on the following advantages:

1) Unlimited diving

2) Ability to move to different locations to take advantage of best dive conditions

3) Proximity to the atolls without many trips on smaller vessels

Nothing at any shore-based location compares to being able to come and go as you please to do your diving. After a "check-out" dive, most liveaboards let you and your buddy dive whenever you want (including night and early-morning), leaving the responsibility of nitrogen uptake on your shoulders. That's why almost all offer NITROX, so experienced divers can maximize bottom time. You'll see camera tables with tens of thousands of dollars' worth of gear. Serious, experienced divers go on liveaboards to spend every possible minute underwater, almost always to shoot photos or video. If you don't have much dive experience yet, don't worry, they'll assign a diveaster to you until your comfort level improves. The big boats in Belize tie up to moorings at some of the best sites in the country, often only moving once a day, and then only a few hundred yards. The dive guides and photo pros, almost all Belizean, know where the best photo and video opportunities are. Even if you're not filming, just seeing the best diving in Belize for days on end--and you will--makes it a memorable experience. Although you will be given flexibility in choosing your dive time, there is always a divemaster on deck keeping track of divers in the water. Every diver is logged in and out. Your safety, enjoyment and preservation of the reef are their priorities.

Large oxygen tanks, cell phones and VHF radios with sufficient range are onboard to help in handling emergencies. There is a recompression chamber in San Pedro. Make sure your DAN insurance is up-to-date...it will cover many in-water emergency costs, although costs for basic services at the hyperbaric facility are included in your trip expenses.

Since your trip is planned for March, information about how weather affects diving at the atolls of Turneffe and Lighthouse is relevant here. It will not be hurricane season, meaning discussions about errors in judgement in the face of a severe, unpredictable natural disaster don't apply. While March may bring the last of the "northers" to Belize, your dive crew will know about it days in advance and plan your dive week accordingly.

You will hear that your money doesn't go to the country of Belize and you won't see any Belizeans. All liveaboards pay hotel tax to the Belize Tourism Board. They all hire local crewmembers, buy fuel, parts, groceries and supplies locally. The van that takes you to and from Goldson Airport will be driven by a Belizean. Since the regular trips are from Saturday to Saturday, you'll return to Belize City on Friday and be given a choice of doing a ruins trip, a zoo trip or another local tour, all using a local operator. Your departure tax will go toward preservation and development of Belize.

Most people that dive liveaboards plan subsequent trips so they can maximize their dive time at the premier dive sites around the world, just like you'll be doing in Belize.

Enjoy your vacation!!!

Thank you Mossback!!!
That's exactly the type of response I was looking for. I have been told that all three boats are going to supply a pampered trip. Any prefference??? Do you think we will be dissappointed in the weather that time of year and should wait a few months?

Hey Tiadude...

In my opinion, the wind is the primary weather concern for diving Belize in March. If you were diving from San Pedro, you could be land-locked for days on end while the wind blows at 25-35 mph. Liveaboards are not nearly as hampered, as they can move around the atolls to find the calm water. Since they regularly dive Long Caye and Half Moon Caye at Lighthouse Atoll, they are going to moor on the leeward side anyway (NE being the prevailing wind direction).

If you go earlier in the year, the frequent northers can make your dive days colder than you would hope for, although you'll still get your dives in. Waiting until later may raise the water temp. a few degrees, but you start getting into the rainy season (June - Nov). The warmer air temps in May-June also cause lots of plankton bloom, limiting visiblity. In March, you'll possibly get some of the late northers, which tend to clear out visiblity at the atolls.

Considering all the factors and keeping the unpredictability of weather in mind, I would stick with your March plan. Since you'll be getting so much bottom time, take a wetsuit, not just a dive skin. Many of the walls at Lighthouse Atoll start at 30-40 ft., so you'll be getting in lots of shallow wall dives. Your body core temp will go down fast, even in 76-80 degree water.

Although I haven't done a liveaboard in Belize in several years, I know many of the crewmembers. I think the Nekton might be a little large for my taste. Whatever Peter Hughes' operation might have put in Belize to replace the Wave Dancer will certainly be up to their normal high standards for dive compatibility, but it may be so new that it needs shake-down time. Although last years' Wave Dancer incident has undoubtedly increased the already high demand for space on the Aggressor, all factors considered, they would probably be my first choice in this case. Keep researching, like you're doing, but remember that the Aggressor books up fast. You'll probably need to pull the trigger soon.

Best of luck.

Thanks!!!!
You have been a wonderful help. We will probably book something next week.