I want to work to create a Marine Reserve between the tips of Long Caye and Lighthouse Reef. Something like Hol Chan. Were any of you part of that project? How does one get started? Tips, advice, volunteers?
Harriette

I am curious as to how you define a marine reserve and what the purpose is and what benifits you hope to attain by establishing one.

Scuba Lady,

Perhaps your could get in touch with Brian Young of Seahorse Diveshop out of Placencia. He was instrumental in getting the Gladden Spit/Silk Cayes area declared a marine preserve for the benefit of the whaleshark.

The website is http://www.belizescuba.com

Bywarren! You are so negative. If everyone would be like you in this world nothing good would ever happen because everything would be just doom and gloom anyway. Scubalady has a great idea and is at least trying to do something positive for the environment. What are you doing to make things better besides blaming people for the worlds destruction????
Don't you also enjoy diving and snorkeling, traveling, living in a nice place, nature and use the toilet as well? In case you have children you are also a big part of the problem of over development and polution!!!! But maybe you are that magical person that does not create anything that is bad for the environment. Maybe no one should ever travel to Belize again so we don't upset the environment so you can enjoy it all alone. Could you at least try to be more positive and not pick on people that want to help and care about the planet? There are so many people that don't care at all. We all should be glad that there are people like Scubalady that cares.

I am sorry guys! My anger towards Bywarren came from a Long Caye post and I should have not even posted this here because it probably makes no sense at all and no one cares anyway. I will be quiet now.

Let me get this straight munichchick. You are angry with me because I do not accept the marketing hype of your developer and your attempted defense of it that they can put 700 lots on a small island and try to concvince me that it is a development that will be "eco-friendly" to the environment. Well, let your anger rage on because I do not feel that the technology exists today to accomplish that. That is just my opinion and if that causes you to vent your anger on me, so be it. As far as Scubaldy's idea about establishing a marine reserve/preserve, and asking for help in doing so, I think I am not out of line by asking her to articulate the scope and definition of what she is proposing. To me a marine reserve/preserve is not something that has the same meaning to everyone. As an example as to how this might be confusing to some, I would assume that a reserve/preserve would restrict activities that are deemed to be harmful to the marine eco-system. My next question would be, what activities are being suggested to be harmful and therefore restricted. Are we talking about fisherman fishing and possible fishing out that resource or are we talking about divers diving and damaging the reef through their activities such as anchoring and breaking off coral or our we talking about all boating activity that causes pollution? If you consider these to be unreasonable questions, then that just gives you another reason to vent your anger on me.

yes please

Hunters - thanks for the tip. I’ll get in touch with him.
byWarren: If you will reread what I wrote I think you will see that I said “something like Hol Chan”
I try not to reinvent the wheel and am willing to steal anybody’s good idea. LOL
Since Hol chan s already in existence, it seem to me that it would be fairly straightforward to copy their plan. Notice, I did not say easy. But, having just retired from 30 years on a government job, I have some sense about bureaucracies. Another big LOL.
So, to answer your question, in a roundabout way: It is already established that there will be no anchoring around the island. The developers are installing moorings – these requirements are built into the environmental impact plan.
I am not trying to be condescending as I really don’t know how much you do or don’t know about Belize, and Ambergris Caye in particular. So I say the following to answer your question.
Are you aware that Hol Chan has moorings and divers and snorkelers frequent this area. It is a total “NO TAKE reserve. No fish, no shells, nothing. As a result, in despite the heavy dive traffic, the ocean life has thrived.
So, stealing yet another persons motto, mine is “Take only pictures - - - leave only bubbles. I just received, as a gift a book written by Carl Roessler. He had three pages about diving in Belize and it was all about Lighthouse Reef. He compared it to other places in the Caribbean, especially Cozumel. It was so beautifully written that I e-mailed him and asked if I had his permission to reprint some of it on our “Long Caye Chat group.” He wrote back immediately and said yes, but asked if I was aware that it was written in 1972. That made me really want to cry and what gave me the idea to work on trying to restore it to what he described.
This week I am being held captive by two 3 year old twin boys while Mom, Dad and sisters are in Las Vegas having fun. I’m run ragged. However, when I get home and get it posted I will put up a notice here so you can read it.

I’ve been called a lot of things in my life among them “Rebel Rouser,” “Shit Disturber,” “”Control Freak,” and some nice ones too, like “Go Getter,”, “Organizer.” Etc. I’m (considered by some) a fat old lady, but there’s still a lot of life left in me. I can’t stand being idle and I love to make a difference. I am determined to not get Alzheimer’s by trying to constantly learn something new. OK – time to get off my soapbox. Sorry gang.
Harriette

Scubaldy: here is a little bit of "what I know" and some thoughts on maybe why the wheel does need to be reinvente. If you look long and hard enough, you might find a San Pedrono old enough to rememeber a gringo resembling a much younger me who talked long and hard about the need and advantages of establishing an area for a marine reserve. At that time, the predominant occupation of the San Pedrono's was fishing so when the idea finally became popular, the people of San Pedro decided that Hol Chan cut would be the place to establish it, one of the reasons being that they could still do their fishing close in front of the island. As time has progressed, the people invloved with the diving and tourist business now outnumber the fisherman and the "marine reserve" concept has become a polarizing issue. On one on hand you have those wanting to establish more reserves that prohibit fishing and the fisherman who feel their livyhood is being threatened. I feel I am in the middle of this by thinking that, if properly manage, the marine ecosytem including it's fishery, can support both. I think the "pendulum" has swung too far when people want to prevent other from making a living fishing like their father's and grandfather's before them because they want to "reserve" the ocean for only their use. Without reasonable compromise factored into this, Belize will be divided. Like all other concepts, marine reserves have advantages and disadvantages. One example is when you go to Hol Chan and see 100 tourists, half of them are standing and walking on the bottom. One could agrue that to protect the reef, all diving and snorkeling should be contained to a small area so as to limit the damage to only that area. Now, I know that is absurd, but I feel the fisherman have a just as valid case in wanting not to be restricted from an area. So when someone suggest "Let's create another marine reserve/preserve", I think maybe a little more thought needs to go into the purpose and objectives making sure all people affected are given consideration. Now when I ask you to articulate what your thoughts and objectives are, you and others respond by attacking me. This leads me to question how much thought you give to what you say,let along what you want to do. You stated on the other topic that I "delight in pissing people off". Well, I guess if disagreeing with you and asking you to defend and describe your positions is "pissing you off", then I think I will go and get a big drink of water.
PS: Munichchick, Ich leibe schnorkling und touchen und wohne in Belize, wo ich denke ist eine herliche platz. Und fur die frage , was ich mache uber die schornheitsphlege und naturheitsphlege hier in Belize, ist alles allein zum lassen!

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 07-31-2002).]

Bywarren
Thank you for a very reasonable response. When you write like this, rather than attacking, a dialog can take place. Actually you and I are probably both right in the middle. I have lived all my life along the Pacific Ocean and listened to the fighting from both fishing and timber extremists. The truth is that unless some areas are protected the fishing diminishes. Just like, if some thinning doesn’t occur the forests burn.

It doesn't take large sections to create nurseries where fish can spawn, hatch and a percentage of them live to reproduce. I'm sure if you talk to those "old time" San Pedrono's they will tell you stories about how abundant and big the fish used to be.

Here, in Monterey Bay, the local government issued permits for commercial harvesting of the giant Kelp beds. The damage done before the politicians would listen to the fishermen AND the divers was almost irreversible. The fishermen tried to blame the divers, some of whom were spear fishers and the divers blamed the commercial fishers for the diminishing number of fish. There has been a group working on this problem for the last 10 years and the Fish & Game Commission is ALMOST ready to declare some more of the bay as NO TAKE, which will include kelp harvesting.
Greed permeates most every business and industry, but I do not think it is human nature; I believe it is a learned response.
I understand that everyone says "not in my backyard!" Well, don't you think it might be a good idea to establish some protected areas BEFORE they are in someone's back yard: in this case in the front yard of people on Long Caye facing Half Moon Caye?
The area I am talking about is about the same size as the island of Long Caye.
I sure hope we can learn from others mistakes and not make the same ones ourselves. I'm not one who cries, "I'm doing this for my children." Unfortunately my two children don't seem to care about a lot of things outside of their small little worlds. It seems to be a characteristic of the GeneX’ers (or whatever they are called) Hopefully they will mature as they get older and the world gets smaller.
So, Bywarren, would you like to get involved?
Harriette
PS – In what country/state do you live most of the time?

Bywarren! You are the one that called us Hypoctricics! I think I can be angry about that. You are right everyone has the right to their own opinion. I actually respect some of yours but you seem to have a hard time respecting others if they are not the same as yours. That said. We all seem to love Belize and wanting it to stay a wonderful place. There is no reason to pick on each other.

Scubaldy, you are very preceptive about me. I am currently in my log home on my 40 acres in Arkansas where I can't see any neighbors. Most of the rest of the year I live on AC as a resident of Belize who has been visiting and living there over 30 years. Not intending that to mean it gives my ideas and beliefs any more credibility than others. And to you Munichchick, I use the word "hypocritical" to, I believe accuratly, describe someone who says one hand that they are being "eco-friendly" and then supporting a development with the scope and nature that you describe. To me they do not coincide and to me that is the meaning of being hypocritical. In my book, that is not name calling. That is describing how I view your position.

Well, all that had to come from someone that lives on 40 acres of land. Many of us are not that lucky and have neighbors breath down our neck and watch nature being buldozed all around us for more houses. You can see how only developing 20% of an Island does not seem like overdevelopment to us.
Just be lucky you where born before us and where able to live on 30 acres as well as in Belize. Enjoy it!!!

OK, let me try and offer an olive branch here. Scubaldy and Munichchick, I am sure you are well intentioned people with valid concerns about the environment and Belize. Having been fortunate enough to enjoy what Belize has to offer, I have become very opinionated on preserving and protecting what I have enjoyed and I strongly defend those views. I encourage and welcome discussion, debate and criticism of my views. And, I do not give a rat's ass, dog's ass or cat's ass ( to relate to another topic ) what people think of me or what kind of person I am or how many acres I live on. If I disagree with your views, I will challenge them and try to explain why I disagree. If you re-read my posts, I hope you will see that comments refer to your views and opinions and do not attack you as a person. If you do feel that by me challenging and criticizing those I am directing that toward you as a person, that is not my intention. I could probably do better in my communication skills, but to once again relate to the other topic, "it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks". Sometimes I wish I could donate some of my thick skin to others. I hope this come across as an olive branch with just a few thorns.

LOL
Bywarren, what are you thinking man?
Don't give away your alligator skin!
You know you need that to live in Belize!
LOL

Maybe just polish it a little bit. *grinning*

Enigma, based on your perceptive and well written post on life in San Pedro, I truly complement you on that, I will take into consideration your suggestion to polish up my skin. To re-cap the other comments made about me in case anyone is trying to recognize me in San Pedro, they need to look for " a crumpy old expat, who is negative, loud and obnoxious, pisses people off, does nothing to make things better, blames people for the world's destruction, wants no one to come to Belize, lucky to be born before all others, doesn't like life on a small island, should be living in the woods with no neighbors. That should narrow it down. Good thing we all can stick to the issues and not get personal. I guess I should add LOL, just incase some do not have a sense of humor and think I am being serious.

Yes, the LOL's do help. You sound like a few of the British Expats I've met down there! little lol
Harriette

Be careful about how you comment on the Brit's. They might decide to invade and reclaim their colony and turn Long Caye into a pristine army base. Let's hope they abide by the covenants and only park their tanks on 20% of the land. Then as the covenants seem to allow, they can put their water tanks on the other 80% and tell us they are being eco-friendly by providing bird baths.

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 08-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 08-01-2002).]

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 08-01-2002).]

*hands Bywarren some leather polish* LOL

Email me at enigma@belizemail.net
I might need your advice once in a while, seeing as how you've been here off and on for 30 yrs. Quite an accomplishment! LOL

Okay Bywarren! I will be accepting that Olive Branch with thorns. You are truly a lucky person for living on 40 acres somewhere in the woods as well as having enjoyed Belize for 30 years.

Amazingly enough, I have to agree with ByWarren on the marine preserve issue. I don't think he is saying there should not be one down there, I think what he is saying is that any such effort must have the approval of the local fishermen who live off the sea.
Parks (whether on land or on the sea) are great but not when they wreak havoc on a local subsistence economy.
There are a lot of people on Ambergris Caye who make their living at least in part by fishing. Many of the dive and snorkel boat operators also fish commercially and supplement their income by fishing (many were fishermen before the tourists came).
In Belize, the fishing activity is manual labor, ordinary guys in little boats. It is not the kind of large scale net-based commercial fishing that can "fish out" a small area quickly.
Also, someone referenced spear-fishing. No area ever lost its fish because people were spear-fishing. It's difficult and you are lucky to get 2 or 3 fish. It's the ultimate in "subsistence fishing."
It may be that the reefs around Long Caye are a great place for a marine reserve. But if so, there will have to be consensus among the community.