It has been suggested by several that this topic be moved to the general chat section. I agree as it really has nothing to do with the fundraising efforts for Julia and her family - despite the efforts of several to make it so.

What follows is a response to several questions posted on the "Fruit lady" thread.

From Pedro 1: It would be nice for the SPSC to see their way to donating a little money towards Julia's happiness.

And:

IM-what about money collected here-surely it was not sent to the US to make sure that non taxable contributions paid in Belize would be non-taxable in the US-
If I am not making sense let me give you an example-I being a resident of Belize who is an English national donates money to the SPSC and you report my donations to the American tax authorities


From Gail M:
Peter has a valid question: This is an email from Ernie sent to members last August -

"what we have done: Thanks to your support, we have raised and deposited into the corporation’s bank accounts both in the U.S. and in San Pedro, about US$22,500. We transferred US$12,500 to the Alliance Bank in San Pedro in preparation of getting something going on the kitchen/lunch room and to demonstrate to the local businesses on the island that we are very serious about our commitment to working with the local economy. We want them to know the money is in “Their” country, in “Their” bank."
Did that money get transferred to a US Bank and if not, could some of it possibly be donated to the Fruit Lady cause? I bet she has several kids in school in San Pedro, which seems like it would make these funds qualify.

And:
Sorry I didn't finish and for some reason I can't remain logged in to edit my post.
Anyway, sort of establishing a scholarship to support her child through school for the next week, month, year whatever the "club" decides.
I don't know what the bylaws for SPCS state, so I don't know how funds can be dispersed.


From bywarren:

I have donated to your cause, as you are aware, by depositing funds in the Alliance Bank. You state that your organization is "as previously discussed, the SPSC is bound by the Charter of the State of Texas as well as Federal and IRS regulations, as to how we can disperse funds." Would you please explain to me and others who have given you money exactly how and when you plan to put these funds to use.

I think your organization owes those of us who have donated more of an explanation and accounting for our funds than you have given up to this point. I cannot except the rational that the reason the funds have not been put to use here in San Pedro is that you are " bound by the Charter of the State of Texas as well as Federal and IRS regulations, as to how we can disperse funds." That is not acceptable to me.



Okay Folks - here’s the deal, I’m going to attempt to provide a very simplified explanation of IRS regulations as they pertain to organizations with 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status :

1. Peter, I love you to death man, but you are barking up the wrong tree here. SPSC’s 501(c)(3) status is not based upon who donates, it is based upon how they distribute the funds they raise.
If I am not making sense, let me give you an example - You, being a resident of Belize who is an English national, donate money to the SPSC; as an English national, you may or may not be able to take a deduction from your taxes for that donation, depending on English law. Whether you do or not is irrelevant to the American IRS, they don’t care if you take a deduction or not (and the same would be true for an American citizen who donates) for purposes of determining whether SPSC is in compliance with IRC section 501(c)(3). The only thing that matters to the IRS is that the funds in the SPSC account are NOT distributed in contravention of the Internal Revenue Code.
Pursuant to the Internal Revenue Code, “No part of the net earnings of an IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.” “In addition, assets of an organization must be permanently dedicated to an exempt purpose. This means that should an organization dissolve, its assets must be distributed for an exempt purpose described in this chapter, or to the federal government or to a state or local government for a public purpose.”

That means SPSC CANNOT donate a portion of its funds to Julia, or any other private individual, no matter how much you might want them to or even how much SPSC might want to. To do so would put their tax exempt status in jeopardy. What that would mean is that they would no longer be deemed tax-exempt and a good portion of the funds they raise would end up being paid out to the US government in taxes. None of us want that. As it stands now, as long as SPSC operates as a not-for-profit corporation, they pay no taxes on any money they raise. As soon as they utilize the funds for a purpose prohibited by the IRS, they stand to lose tax exempt status and a good portion of their cash on hand will immediately be due in taxes. Make Sense??????

2. Gail, it doesn’t matter whether the money is held in a Belizean or American bank. The funds are part of a United States 501 (c)(3) corporation and are governed by the laws applicable thereto. That means those funds cannot be donated to an individual. Nor can they be put into a “scholarship fund” designed to benefit a specified individual. SPSC didn’t make up those rules, that would be the Internal Revenue Service. SPSC is just trying to follow the law.

As an aside, if you don’t know what the bylaws for SPSC state, and so don't know how funds can be dispersed, you might consider requesting a copy if you are a member. Unless of course that wasn’t the real intent of your post to start with.


3. Bywarren, you have asked for an explanation of “exactly how and when” SPSC plans to put their funds to use. You state that you and others are entitled to more of an explanation and accounting than have been given up to this point. Finally, you state that an explanation that SPSC is "bound by the Charter of the State of Texas as well as Federal and IRS regulations, as to how we can disperse funds" is not acceptable to you.
Initially, I’d like to know which other charitable organizations to which you donate reply to this type of question on a public message board. Seems to me if you have questions about what is being done with money you donated, you’d go directly to the organization rather than attempt to malign a single individual associated with the organization - but, hey, that’s just a freebie thrown in by me.
With respect to how and when SPSC plans to put their funds to use, I believe that question has been answered. Mr. Brannon stated that SPSC and the Calendar Girls project currently have on hand enough cash to account for approximately 90% of the costs of completing the elementary school classroom building project; however, they have had some difficulties with various San Pedro officials. They continue to work on solving these difficulties. What part of that did you not get? If you desire further explanation, what have you done to obtain such? With respect to you finding IRS regulations regarding how 501 (c)(3) funds can be disbursed unacceptable, perhaps you could take that up with them. Let me know how that works out for you.

Finally, Jesse aka San Pedro Daily, your personal animosity toward Mr. Brannon is well-known. Ernie’s a ornery ole coot and doesn’t need me to stick up for him, so you two can fight that one out. I’ll just say on a personal note that I believe it speaks volumes about your character that you would attempt to undermine the work of a charitable organization to further a personal vendetta.


The fund raising for Julia and her family is a very worthwhile project. I support it, and many other projects carried out for the good of San Pedro and its wonderful citizens. However, it is a completely separate issue from how SPSC funds can be utilized. If anyone has questions about the applicable IRS regs, feel free to PM or email me and I’ll do my best to answer them; however, I’ve said all I’m going to say on this topic in a public forum. I have to get back to the Sex in Belize thread.

Well I sure wish I would have known Hootchie was going to make this post. I just spen an hour pecking out my responce. I think I like hers better, Thanks LH!

There's no personal vendetta here. I don't know Mr. Brannon, only what I read on this message board. He seems to have taken personally my objection to the original plan to create an in-school feeding program. When the Calendar Girl Project came along I supported that in every way I could and was very pleased when Ernies group joined in.
This latest "incident" can't possibly be called an attack on Ernie:
1. reaper: So who holds the purse strings to the San Pedro Social Club vault? Could the SPSC donate a few $$$???
2 me: SPSC has committed all their funds to the project to build 3 new classrooms at the RC school. Last word was that SPSC had then gone into hibernation.
3. ernie: San Pedro Daily; re: SPSC. I am compelled to comment on your stupid reference to the SPSC. As usual, you are misinformed. The SPSC has not gone into hibernation as you have stated. We and the Calendar Girls are being "Road Blocked" at every turn by the Mayor, Town Board and the School Board. It appears they are not interested in getting the new school rooms that they despertly need. It was reported that the school turned away approxamatly 150 kids last fall because they didnt have room for them. We (Calendar Girls & the SPSC) currently have on hand enough cash to go about 90% of the cost and have the ability to finish the project if only the powers that be would allow us to. Law is correct, our State Non Profit Charter and IRS application for non profit status is very strict in what we can do with our funds and what we cannot do with our funds. I dont want to start a war with the San Pedro Daily, but it would be nice for you to report accurately, or put it on the 'Opinion Page' and get a different opinion from others that may be a little more knowdlegeable on the subject. Because you say it, does not make it fact.
4. me: quote:Originally posted by immissing:
Back in January, I notified all members that I resigned my position as President of the SPSC for personal reasons. For all pratical purposes, the SPSC is in a state of "Inactive". This is due to the fact that I sent a questionaire to members asking if they would support the SPSC again this year andd the responce was not favorable. A lot of people worked very hard to get us to where we are today,but burn out is a reality. The Board of Directors voted to throw our support behind the Calendar Girls project to build classrooms at the RC School. So far, no funds have been dispursed. No official "Partee" has been planned due to the lack of responce back in January. This does not mean a party cant be held if someone would take the lead and organize it. No funds, dues, etc,etc, has been ask for, again , due to the lack of interest from the general membership.
Ernie

It seems to me that Ernie is quick to see anything I post as an attack. In this case I was trying to post an honest answer based on Ernies previous posts.An old saying comes to mind: "Paranoia will destroy ya"

bywarren / Don't let this attorney's language intimidate you. People in the legal profession have been intensely schooled on the proper verbage and application of such to discredit, intimidate and confuse the opposition. That is their job. Some are better than others. If she were representing you on this matter, these methods would be used to defend and justify your interest. I am sure Mr. Brannon will publish a complete financial accounting. He has a duty to do so even though he has resigned as President. You had every right to express your concerns and questions on this message board. It is obvious that some members of the SPSC are not all that comfortable with the way the organization has been handled. Maybe lawcucui would be interested in heading up SPSC. It appears she is their present acting legal counsel as well as Public Relations spokesperson, why not President? Maybe she will have better luck at persuading the Mayor and others of San Pedro to accept the funds that have been collected for their benefit.
Good Luck to all concerned. Remember, your hearts are in the right place, no matter how you might feel after reading the lawcucui post.
Pam

Pam&Dave are educating bywarren as to the ways of the world, now that is classic. Get some popcorn people this may be fun. lawcoocchie is right on in my book

Maybe I should have put it in legal terms. I'm not "educating" anyone. I think Jesse's quote sums it up, "Paranoia will destroy ya." What's in it for you?

Nothing at all. We do find the constant picking by the same people to be concerted and transparent. Are you a member or a crab

I thought her contribution was well thought out and reasoned...didn't see any "attorney's language", nor anything confusing in the least.

By the way, wasn't it great to see a thread gone down hill and off-topic repositioned to the Chat Area? What a shame it doesn't happen with more frequency.

Excellent example of why a lot of people with good in their hearts were driven away by people with paranoia in their heads. My contributions have ceased, as have most others, not due to Ernie's actions at all but, instead, as a reaction to the incredible negativity expressed by so many who questioned his intent. SPSC was, for the most part, good people trying to do good things.

Perhaps charity should be left to those who are blessed and compassionate enough to make it happen.

LC, nice job of trying to educate the uninformed. Unfortunately, I suspect it'll have the usual impact.

P&D - are you not the one who was chastising others yesterday for being "condescending"? :rolleyes: talk about hypocritical commentary......

Your pompous reply does not change the facts ( re law, no pun intended)that everything she stated is accurate.

And for those who might have conveniently forgotten,if indeed they ever knew, the classroom building is NOT an SPSC venture, but the SP Calendar Girls. As Mr. Brannon has enlightened us several times in prior months, publicly on this forum, the emphasis was shifted to aiding them in their effort, since SPSC efforts at mobilizing a school lunchroom program had received insurmountable barriers.


I've got $100US to add to the classroom building that says P&D are NOT members of the SPSC, if anyone is up for the challenge.

I'm in, klc. I'll check the old SPSC site to see if the Paypal system still works. If not, I'll send it wherever it should go.

Put up AND shut up, as far as I'm concerned. Charity requires no justification.

Pam - as you've added me to your "ignore" list, I sent my response to your last PM to your work e mail. I am honestly interested in your responses to my questions. Thanks, law

CatMo - I'm confused - are you taking K's bet, or matching the amount? In other words, do you think P&D are or are not SPSC members?

Sorry for the confusion, LC. But thanks for asking for clarification, as I want to be clear.

I'm matching. And I really don't care who's a member and who's not. I know who--and what--matters. I know you do, too. Let's see who else does, eh?

Whatever happened to Rich Guy?

he bought some property on AC, He aint rich no mo.

E - you crack me up!

CatMo - got it and agree wholeheartedly - once again! I do believe I'm a fan for life, buddy!

Just checked and Paypal works over at http://www.sanpedrosc.org/

No reason not to go there, if you care. Matter of fact, I just upped the ante, Pam and Dave. Jesse? Knock yourselves out.

I love getting to spin crap like this in a positive way.

Good to see ya again, CatMo.

Let's bring it on CM....the sky is the limit.

Anyone else up for the challenge?

klcman / In my legal opinion, your statement, "everything she stated is accurate" is not correct. Much of what she stated was her personal opinion. If you are in agreement with her, so be it. That does not necessarily make it accurate. The majority of her legal remarks are correct.
I am NOT a member of SPSC. There - it's OUT! I must say, this is the first non-profit organization I have had the privledge of observing or serving that completely shuts the door on an individual because they are not a member or on the Board. I had no idea it was exclusive. My mistake, I sincerely apologize.
In no way do I want to be perceived as "condescending." That is not where I'm coming from. It has become very apparent that only members of SPSC are allowed to discuss matters in question. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't mean to step on anyones toes.
If anyone, including non-members of SPSC, have any questions regarding the legal requirements and obligations of a non-profit organization, please feel free to send a PM. I will only offer legal facts, no opinion. Been there - done that! Wheeew...
Pam

PayPal just called. Received $200.00US from CatMo ! Some people DO believe in what we are doing. Thanks CATMO !

Laughing at Pam&Dave. More butter for the popcorn

ah, the good that comes from attempted bad - gotta love it!

Myako - as I can't PM you, just wanted to express my gratitude for the support - not so much of me but of SPSC!!!

I think we're PMsssable. I know Ako is Not sure

O.K., Just received a donation from KLCDUDE who will personally deliver the geedis to Miss Joyce, heading up the CG on the island. Thanks Dude !

Law / I believe I answered your questions in my PM to you. You stated that one of the benefits of a non-profit status is the ability to ignore naysayers like me. OK by me. PLEASE ignore me. I will not respond to any further attempts by you to contact me. Do not send any more e-mails to my place of business. That was a poor judgement call on your part. There are anti-stalking laws to prevent such behavior.
This message board is a fun and positive place for the most part. This SPSC topic has gone in a direction that is borderline insane.
You are on my ignore list for a reason. I want no further dialogue with you. It serves absolutely no purpose. Any attempts to the contrary will be considered an invasion of my privacy.
Pamela

Pam, interestingly I just received an email from the law professor you represented yourself to be in your PM to me. She had no idea what I was talking about and I have informed her that I received communication from someone on a message board purporting to be her. I do believe she is not pleased.
You are correct that there are laws against stalking, as a former criminal prosecutor, I am well aware of the elements of stalking. At this point I am not concerned in the least. However, you should be aware that there are laws against improperly holding yourself out as a member of the bar. Time to come clean, little lady. You have no obligation to communicate with me; however, should you choose to do so I strongly recommend you be scrupulously honest in those communications.

WOW! I knew I didnt want to live next door to her!

Oh - I dunno - watching the arrest might be amusing :rolleyes:

ayayayay!!!

I cant belive Pamie Baby would do that, just shows to go ya. Where is her opinion level now?

my - I'm not sure what that means?

This has gone from borderline insane to full-blown insane!!! No, I am not pleased.

Care to explain as you suggested that I do?

Pam - let me get this straight. Are you still purporting to be a law professor? The same law professor that emailed me saying she didn't know to what I was referring and that she had no idea what charitable organization I was talking about? If so, should there be some concern about schizophrenia?

I think perhaps it might be helpful for me to forward to her the PM you sent me laying out your/her academic background. What say you?

Yay and yoooyaaahoooo to the lady lawyer with the pretty flower. I meant to say she is the best. Thanks Lawcoocchie

I didn't intend to create a firestorm of controversy by asking who held the key to the SPSC vault. It was just an honest question.

So now my next question.
What needs to be done to get Mayor Paz and the Town Board to approve the funding of the school project? It seems there are a lot of influential folks on this board that could use their wit and wisdom in more positive ways...like writing or phoning City Hall.

And one final question.
Mrs. reaper is not home right now so I need a Lawcucui ruling. Would it violate the IRS Code to donate a portion of SPSC funds directly to the hospital in Belize City, without directing it to an individual? If the politicians in SP don't want the island residents to benefit with new classrooms, it would seem a new cause needs to be found for the funds.

reaper, thanks for your inquiry. Please look back on the About Ambergris Caye thread regarding what we can and cannot do. Its all there and Im getting a little long of tooth trying to explain it. No pun intended, Thanks

E !

PS: we are looking at other causes but they must fit our charter.

Hey reaper - I never took your questions as ill-intentioned - just figured you, and some others, didn't know, so I tried to offer an explanation. With respect to your comments about more positive use of wit and wisdom, well, that use and the use to comment here aren't mutually exclusive.
The answer to your question is a bit complicated. My understanding is that as it stands right now, SPSC's 501(c)(3) app has the school stated as its intended target for receipt of all fundraising efforts. In the event the possibility for utilizing funds there is completly ruled out, they will have to file a different stated purpose. With respect to whether that could be the hospital, it would depend on the will of the members and the donation could not be intended to benefit any specific individual.

That do it?

I must say, this has been a good day for SPSC's bank account. Whatever it takes. Viva los ninos de San Pedro.
It's time for you guys to go after someone else. Who will be the next victim?

Pam - absent a response from you (publicly or privately, your choice) I plan to forward your PM and profile to the professor's email address. What say you?

I think you are still the topic of interest, sweety.

Thanks E and L,

Now the question is how to get the school room program completed.

The somewhat rational folks here could help.(I think, maybe...?)

Ernie, I'll be meeting with the Mayoress in May regarding some other assistance program (fire equipment). Anything I can do?

reaper - I've made the same offer - perhaps we should chat off the board about this.

Over coffee.

And let's not forget that the original intent of the SPSC was to benefit the school children of San Pedro.

Ernie's initial mission was to provide a lunch room. That was crushed via multiple roadblocks. The vision was then adapted to work with the Calendar Girls to expand the school physically; that's where things stand today.

Those of us who understand things Belize, understand. The original intent--to support the kids in SP in an educational effort--stands firm.

Those who believe and are willing to contribute are the same as they ever were.

I don't know how more plain this can be made.

reaper - it's a date
CatMo - you are on the money! How's it feel to be right all the time?

How do you spell, A-M-E-N ?

Well said Catmo.

Trashers will always be trashers. Talk the talk but can't walk the walk.

Yes, I would like a copy via email to unbelizeable@btl.net or you can mail them to my P.O. Box.1265, Belize City, Belize.
Thanks.
PS I did not rejoin this year.

reaper, pls pm me.

Reaper, tomorrow is a holiday in Belize but I do believe we can make those phone calls to the Mayor, Area Rep. and Town Council on Tuesday.

FYI, the Primary (Elementary) school is owned 50% by the Government and 50% by the Catholic Church. The Town Council doesn't have jurisdiction over it. I bet the Mayor would LOVE to take credit for building new classrooms (she has before) but it's really out of her realm of responsibility.

The government and Catholic Church would have to OK the planned classrooms. The Area Rep. (Hon. Manuel "Junior" Heredia) would have to be involved as he is our island's representative in Belmopan, the seat of Government.

Finally, I have not donated anything to the SPSC and so do not personally need an accounting of the monies held therein. But, it would be good to know exactly how much money the SPSC has to donate for the classroom construction and how much the project would cost and if necessary, how much money the Government and Catholic Church would need to come up with so that any phone calls made to the Area Rep on Tuesday contain all the right questions.

Thanks Chris, I will get back to you in the A.M.

Ernie

PS; it seems the building permits/design approval are in question.

Ernie

Agreed, Chris.

Reaper, I'd love to have a real way to contact you. We might be able to do good works together...although the fact that you jump out of perfectly good aircraft worries me.

G'night all. I've a full day tomorrow.

But here's a reminder: http://www.sanpedrosc.org/

I've no interest other than positive in that site. Should the monies gathered there go as they are intended, so be it. If not, I'll be both surprised and disappointed.

I don't expect, in the near or long term, to be either. Join me, if you can.

I'm still waiting for a response from Pammy...
midnight's the deadline.

By the way - anyone not on P&D's ignore list raise your hand!

Pam&Dave... such a disappointment!

Law, thanks for the detailed explanation. It was great.

Now, let's get away from this P&D mumbo jumbo and onto something better like...
Good one Cat Mo!!!

Hey TQ!

Hey girlie!!
Countdown's begun - and the real fun is on the sex in belize thread

Hey klc... what a mess :rolleyes:

It's just too bad that most of these people, haven't been there through all of the troubles/road blocks etc. that the board of directors have witnessed. I assure you that if they'd been behind the scenes (and of course, I can only speak for this past year), the "bashers" would be apologizing. Every last one of them, I assure you. It's been a really tough year. If things had gone our way, the addition would be started, and we'd see these funds hard at work...

Sounds like with reapers help and a few others, things could change - soon. Fingers crossed!

Hey Law! I'm outta here and over to SEX!...

CatMo www.skydivebelize.com
tsunamiskydivers@cox.net

I just have to say Ernie as always you have my full support and Law you are Awesome! Ernie has addressed this over and over I just don't get the uproar!
Rhonda

Hey Law...did Pam at least pass herself off as Harriet Meyers or Sandra Day O'Conner....or God help us...Gloria Allred!!!!!!! :p

Hey Rhon!
are you on Pam's ignore list? She told me she's a law professor at a very prestigious law school, but now I've had a coupla emails from the law professor and it seems there has been some fibbing. Seems a lot of us can't PM Pam to ask her about this strange turn of events because she's put us all on her ignore list. Just wondered if you could get through! Also, we're moving to the sex in belize thread now!

Hey reaper!
Nah - she wasn't that out there - she just lifted the profile of a professor with the same first name from one of the top law schools in the country!
I knew she wasn't O'Conner or Allred - they can spell!

NO Law I didn't attempt to PM Sandra Day...maybe an ohsoimportant person such as herself just has full mailbox....??
I'm sure she's booking a ONE way flight to Belize as we speak!

Can some of the SPSC money go to SAGA?

It ain't the mailbox that's full

When we try to PM we get a message that says we are on her ignore list - don't know where she'll head, seems to be reluctant to show her face round these parts though...

Hey Pam - no, and the reasons are the same as the answer to reaper's hospital question.
How was the party?

ok, thanks..what party...we are at home.

Oh - I thought there was a party - or maybe it's just that I think you guys are always having a party!

and don't confuse me with P&D

Law, apparently I have an IN...probably not for long though. I Pm'd but no reply.

Wow Rhon - do tell, aren't you the lucky one :rolleyes:
P - there could never be any confusion on that count - you and K are lovely individuals who would never pretend to be someone else! Why would ya - you're great! Now, if I could just get some Belikin to you both!

we always can have a party at our house, so call when you're in town

You guys are a party all in your own right! It's a deal!

Great! Well must go, gotta watch Keeping Up with Appearances!

Leahann - Law - lawcucui - Whatever,
Go ahead and laugh to your heart's content. This "Boys & Girl Club" is a tight bunch, I'll give you that much. If not ego driven, beer & rum driven.
Regarding the forwarding of my PM;
Whatever serves your ego best is fine by me. You make the call. No countdown necessary. This isn't about you or me. It's about a member (bywarren) of the SPSC asking a couple pressing, legitimate questions. He was met with the usual hostile, how dare you ask, response. Historically, the asking party gets blasted by the "Club" members, made to feel like an idiot for asking, end of subject. I tried to see if you all could move past that MO and achieve some sort of resolution. It appears a sacrificial lamb was needed for the progress we have seen today. Look what has happened! The movers and shakers of this board are making arrangements to meet with the Mayor and others to discuss various avenues to benefit the school children. Now it is up to all the SPSC members not in the "Club" to support and offer help to the people trying to work with the Mayor, Town Board, etc. I'm sure the outcome of those meetings will be shared with all concerned.
So anyway, Law, do what you feel is necessary. As for me, all the insults and attempts to humiliate were well worth it, no matter what you decide to do.

Well, ???????

edit: it seems the ball is in your court.

Pam,
I'm not a member of the SPSC.

I haven't given the SPSC a dime.

I'm meeting with Mayoress Paz and Area Rep. Manny Heredia in June regarding other issues.
If I can help at "city hall" I will.

I think Bywarren brings up very valid issues.

If anyone has ever tried to do anything business wise in Belize, they can understand the futility often encountered there.

I'm not a mover nor a shaker of the board, just a guy that loves to throw folks out of airplanes over San Pedro, and hold silly "name the north/bridge" contests,and start the Belize HoCaye League.

If you tried to dupe Lawcucui on your credentials, I think that's pretty good stuff, and if she caught you...even funnier!

So let's end all the BullS#%$@ and try to get a couple of bucks out of the bank and into building some classrooms.

Right on reaper. No agenda, just a good heart. Good luck in June.

Pam&dave, I am not a member nor am I affiliated in the club in any regard but I do see a trend that I think personally the "club" feels is offensive, the way the "questions" are presented. I have yet to see a post started that actually sounds as if the person is generally concerned about where the club stands. What would you do if you were continuously getting kicked in the stomach? Fight back? Thought so.

It's all in the way you present yourself, bywarren included.

Well, crayonlover06 - I do believe you've hit the nail on the head. I've never had a problem with questions, it's the insinuation/assumption that something is amiss when there has been no real effort to find out the facts that gets to me.
As for you Pam, whoever you may be, you are entitled to your opinions/posts as much as the next gal. The only reason I commented in the first place was because so much misinformation was getting thrown around. I have never before engaged in the type of personal attack often seen on this board, but you came after me personally and were not even brave enough to do it as yourself. You erred significantly in trying to intimidate, discredit accurate information, and misrepresent yourself. I don't need an apology from you, the fact that you have been exposed for what you are is more than sufficient. As an aside, I will note that plans to meet with the powers that be were well underway before you chimed in. Your misguided attempt to take credit for acting as a catalyst in progress is completely without foundation and does not in any way justify your lack of courage and dishonesty.
I do agree that it is always rewarding to see right prevail and in this case, SPSC and San Pedro have benefitted.
Reaper, carry on, man! I'll join your efforts in a couple of weeks.

I think we should let Pam rest in peace. At least I and everyone else knows what she is.

Geez, I go AWOL for a few days and come back to a firestorm.

I'm not going to lay blame anywhere, as there seems to be enough of that already. I will say however that I have always encouraged groups and organizations to publish their finances in open and not just to members.

Even the companies that I have stock in, while private corporations, publish their statements publically. Why? That way you avoid the accusations, founded or not, and they are shown to be true.

Marty has been exceptionally gracious in the hosting of such activities. I don't think he would object to any organization(s) publishing their accounting expenditures and intakes on here, since said organizations use this forum to solicit funds.

Why here and not an organizations own website? Easy answer... more activity happens here than anywhere else. Business is conducted here so why not all business?

Once again, I am <b>NOT</b> pointing any fingers here. That certainly wasn't my purpose. If it was, there would be no mistake about it.

Now if y'all will excuse me I have a psychiatrist appointment.

Denny, believe it or not, I agree with you. Please recall lsat August (I think) I did in fact post the financial statement on this message board of the SPSC. I and the SPSC were attacked relentlessly by critics and pundits as to why didnt you do this, why did you do that, why dont you do it this way. These comments were, for the most part, from non-members and a couple of members. I have no problem posting the financial condition of the SPSC, however, I do have a problem accepting undue, personal attacts on myself. I will, this week compile current financial data and, upon request, will send it to any member on record as of 12-31-05

Can I have the phone number of your psychiayrist?

OMG... I had to read that opening 5 times. Ernie agrees with me. Now I realize I should have read it and then edited it and added things like: Denny, you are so cool... You are a handsome devil... You are so funny... geez, the list could go on forever.

It's tough Ernie, I know it is and believe it or not I do have the utmost respoect for you and the board. In a post of leadership there is always the pros and cons... always.... that's why we have Republicans and democrats. And before anyone jumps on me, yes, I know I capitalized Republicans and used lower case on democrats.

No you cannot have the number to my psychiatrist... she has her hands full already! Not quite in the way I would like them full but full none-the-less.

HELP,
it is monday morning, did i miss something? copy of what?

!!!!!
pam, get ready for some PLASTIC SURGERY!!!!!
:rolleyes:

While all of you people are argueing, giving excuses why the SPSC cannot give it's money away and attacking each other, it might be of interest to those who are not aware that the school has completed the addition of new classrooms. I guess they did not know that the IRS prohibited that. And, maybe that could be a reason why the Mayor, Town Council, the school and others are not interested in having the SPSC tell them to take their money and do what the SPSC and the US IRS tells them they must do with the money. :rolleyes:

Now as my education is not of the level that I can figure out the answer to what I thought was a fairly simple question, would those legally educated who were kind enough to give us all the legality behind the 501 whatever it is, tell us why the SPSC cannot just give the money to the school and let those who run the school use it as best they see fit?

Why don't we just ask reaper to fly over the island and drop all of the SPSC money out for anyone who shows up to catch it. Sounds as ineffectual as some of the other odd suggestions. If the classrooms were completed that's great news for the kids who couldn't attend due to lack of room. Bywarren thanks for finally sharing that with all of us uninitiated dupes.

I inquired about the "New Classrooms" that Bywarren reported this morning, that have been completed. I was told this morning that they must be in a form visible only to bywarren. I think my friend, by, may have, again, made comments only he can understand and see things only he can see. I wish this thread would die, as I have more important things to do today, like mow the lawn.

Ernie, everyone who drives by the school can see the sign that says thanks to the Town Council and the Honerable Area Representative the classrooms have been completed at a cost of $65000.

Why do you persist in acusing others of lying while not answering the simple question as to why the money cannot just be given to the school?

This is one more example of questioning someones credibility when it is your credibility that is in question. I can see why you would like this thread to die.

bywarren, if it were you and you were able to do whatever you wanted with the funds collected, would you just hand over all of the money and report back that you "gave it to the school"? What would the members think of that?

The goal is still to try and build these additional classrooms that are much needed.

I'll drop all of the SPSC $$$ out of the plane...BUT...no questions asked when I show up with all new skydive gear right after!!!!!

Thats what 'I'm' talkin bout!

Will someone, anyone please... either take a picture of the new classrooms or an empty lot? There are enough residents of AC that frequent this board which could do that for us.

I just walked by the school this morning. There are no new classrooms that have been built. The area where the new classrooms are going to be built was cleared in the fall. The sign refers to classrooms that were built a couple of years ago.

Thank you Kwalkpt, I was going to say that sign has been up there for years, but, bywarren would not believe it if it came from me. Thanks again !

By, go take your meds.

Pursuant to the Internal Revenue Code, “No part of the net earnings of an IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.” “In addition, assets of an organization must be permanently dedicated to an exempt purpose."

Obviously, individuals benefit from non-profit organization. You can see it everday on the news. To say otherwise is goofy.

The point of the above is to make sure that the individuals that do benefit are choosen according to the exempt purpose of the organization. IE there is no problem using donated money to help an individual as long as the individual that is being helped was choosen according to the legitimate charitable purpose of the organization.

The IRS is simply trying to say here that that non profits can't use there money to line the pockets of friends, board members, family etc. I

I can't see how any of that applies to the fruit lady unless she is is decided how the SPSC money is being spent or she is friends/family with those that are deciding.

The only thing that might matter is how the SPSC charitable purpose was written up. Was it written as a generic "to help needy people in San Pedro" or as a more specific purpose like "to help school children in San Pedro"?

In any case lets call the Red Cross and ask them if they ever helped an individual and see what they say.... The we can report them to the IRS:)

Yes travelqueen, I would give the money to the school and let the people who run the school use it as how they best think it should be used. The money was raised for the purpose of helping the school. We do not endear ourselves to the people here by trying to tell them what they need and how we are going to give them money only if they listen to what we think is best for them.

Chris: That was my thought on the limits('cuz we all have a local red cross ot domestic abuse shelter that donates to specific individuals) until I read a bit further. It sounds like the articles and/or bylaws purpose clauses are written narrowly, i.e. the school only. If that's the case a donation to the fruit stand lady violates the bylaws, and thus the tax-exempt status.

Personally I believe any money raised in Belize and that is still in Belize is not subject to these constraints.

Is SPSC an approved Non-profit org. - I checked the IRS website just for grins and they are not listed.

What? Am I reading this right? We can donate to individuals? And all this time I was keeping my mouth shut and suffering in poverty. Anyone wishing to donate to me can do so by contacting me personally and I will give you the address to the Denny Shane Benevolent Society. Cash only, no checks, no credits cards, no records at all. What bank account?

Krehfish, If you understand this, I wonder why Bywarren cant. By, please read Kwalks remark about the "new classromms". THEY AINT THERE !

Hillcountry, The 501(c)3 application is in the process of review by the IRS. It could take a year or more for a final decision. The SPSC is incorporated in Texas as a non-profit corp. FYI

Thanks so much for the info - as this has been if nothing else an entertaining thread - If the application has not been approved is the club still bound by the rules or is only bound once you have the approval?

If we change our mission, we would have to submit thoes changes to the IRS. Then, the process would have to start all over.

Well, then, that would answer the question as to why you cannot give money to just an individual or to another organization such as a hospital. For the sake of the children lets hope you can get some help with the local government and get those classrooms built! Maybe the guy from the newspaper could interview the Mayor and find out what the hold up is? That would make an informative article.

Now what will the excuse be -when the town says we do not want the classrooms-Do you give all the money back or just donate it to the IRS-I would love to see the Alliance Bank of Belize giving the IRS a report on an account with less than 20k belize dollars in it -saying we have been told by some gringo that you as a foreign entity control this money

The money will be used to support the children.

Bottom line. Period. The End.

Pedro, you just keep getting dumber and dumber and dumber and ................ The IRS couldnt care less if Alliance has the money or the bank of mickey mouse. They will come to me and the SPSC for an accounting and I, as the registered agent, will have to answer to them.. So, in closing, I dont give a tinkers damn what you think.

THE END !

How insulting and who is dumb -who set up a charity account -that raised around 35k and had to make it tax deductable for the donors-brilliant-also all monies raised down here(by non-americans) which stayed down here is subject to the IRS-why did you not put it in a different account??-I still do not get it!!!!!

You may never get it P1. It doesn't matter which account any of the funds are in, anywhere on the planet earth, today or in perpetuity throughout the universe. Its never been one man's decision in the first place. The original board of directors (Gay, Becky, Ernie, Karin, I think) were asked by several members to consider and resolve to file the 501c3 application. They voted and it passed. No one ever complained until now when you suggested (I deleted "demanded") money for the fruit lady. The corporation is tightly organized and should be to maintain integrity as to where and when and whom the funds will benefit. Everyone who either donated or whatever knew the application was pending for some time now. Many of the same members who wanted the exempt status are still asking if it is granted because they want to deduct whatever pittance they can for their donations. Why don't you ask SAGA or the Lions to give you some money so you can give it to whomever you please? The SPSC can't do it, just like TQ and Ernie said, Period. Either you are acting dumb or you are really thick or really bored or have no dumbass touristas to hassel. Doesn't matter because the bylaws and the pending application under IRC 501c3 determine the use of the funds in very strict and precise terms. This has all been explained much better by others, so do a search if you need to.

Pedro didn't demand money for the fruit lady. I asked an innocent question on another thread regarding the SPSC.
Holy Crap I need a drink...I just defended Pedro1!!!

May have overstated it, but got the point driven. I'm feeling it too my brother. Bartender! Which reminds me of a joke. A termite walks into Pedro's bar and asks him, "where is the bar tender?"

Right I am stupid-ok-I have been insulted-I contributed on a minimum of 4 different occassions to the SPRC-
I want to know do the SPRC trust the school and its board?-If the answer is Yes give them the money.
If the answer is NO as certain parties have inferred-what are you going to do with the money if the school do not want the SPRC telling them what to do??????????????

hey! how abuot a skinny dipping party? who's in?

E, just how big is that jacussie?

not my jazussie, its must be Dennys

But it's your birthday, so you must have a birthday suit - where's the skinny dipping party?

SPRC? Did someone kill themselves and didn't tell me?

Ha , my thoughts also, but you must remember not to upset the Primos.

Hey CatMo - welcome to the party!!!! we're now only talking bout fun stuff, in honor of E's birthday! no dead people allowed!!!!!!!

yo CM - wuzzup dude? go visit E's parteee we got a new challenge!

I keep telling my psych that I have a jacuzzi. She keeps telling me I don't. Well Doctor Smarty Pants... if I don't have one then where am I swimming at naked every night?

ummm I thought it was NYG's bath tub!

Reaper & Chris,
I want to start by saying I have the utmost respect for both of you gentlemen.
Reaper was gracious enough to entertain the idea of acting as a facilitator of sorts regarding the SPSC classroom funding issue when he meets with the Mayoress later this month. It is obvious that he has established a good rapport with the community leaders and his suggestions would not fall on deaf ears. It is also extremely fortunate that Chris has offered to confer with reaper prior to his scheduled meeting. Being that Chris is a respected local businessman with knowledge of the appropriate political channels and contacts, this is an opportunity that absolutely should not be missed.
I would imagine that both of you have thought about this, so please don't think I'm trying to tell you anything that you probably don't know already. This message board is frequented by many locals, born and raised on the island. It is not too far fetched to consider the fact that a member(s) of the Town Council, or possibly the Mayoress herself, might glance at the entries every once in a while. This thread's heading would stand out to the trained eye. The body of this thread is embarrassing at best. I would hope that after "cooling off" all parties concerned will make a concerted effort to make sure this type of exchange never happens again. I am not a member of the SPSC nor ever will be, however, I participated in this hideous spectacle and for that I am not proud. In my opinion, what transpired in this thread does not represent the true spirit of the SPSC. Again, it is my opinion that good people established this organization with only good intentions. I hope that with both of your help, the children of San Pedro will get the funds that have been collected by fine and caring people for their benefit. Good luck to the both of you!
Pam

Kind words, Pam. As usual, you are a day late and a dollar short. The above has already been in place and working just fine. When it is all worked out, I guess you will take credit. Thats OK by me.

Denny, blowing bubbles in your tub doesn't count.

Close the door, P&D, the barn done burned down.

Here's an idea: send a bunch of cash directly to the school, specifying that it be used exclusively for building new classrooms. Then ask for an accounting of the funds.

Let us know how it works out.

Cynical? Yes. Real? Yes. You spent some appreciable time trashing the efforts of some people who were only trying to do good...not that you're the first.

I was going to say that I don't really care who reads this MB, but that's not correct. Actually, I hope school and town officials, locals, potential contributors, tourists in general and everyone else reads it. The more eyes, the better.

I appreciate the efforts of Ernie, Reaper, Chris and everyone else whose heart is in the right place. The kids of SP need that. They, and those who are concerned about them, also need your support...not your unearned criticism.

Do whatever you think is right; just do something positive. Go ahead, find a better way--we'll support you.

My opinion only, of course.

Is all this doing any good? People, leave it alone already.

Dakota tribal wisdom says when you discover you're riding a dead horse, it's time to dismount.

who's the horse?

Great post Cat Mo! As usual, you're right on!!

save a horse, ride a cowboy

yee haw!!!