from CH7TV-

And the succession of bad news for visitors in Belize continues. Tonight, police have confirmed that a 68-year-old snorkeler went missing today off Caye Caulker.

The man is a cruise visitor traveling with his wife and brother. They arrived on the Norwegian Dream Cruise Ship this morning and went out on a local catamaran to go snorkeling near the reef southeast of Caye Caulker. Somehow he got disconnected from the group of snorkelers and up to newstime, despite intensive searches, he has not been found and is feared drowned.

ST. BARBARA ANYONE?? LET'S PRAY FOR HIS SURVIVAL. NO BAIT FOR ME BUT YOU CAN BET I'LL BE WATCHING DG

from a friend...

the missing man's brother claims current was very strong, water deeper than they were told it would be and that he himself starting floating away and members of the crew had to go get him, moments before his brother vanished. Jackie Woods talking to captain of another catamaran that was in the area at the same time, who pulled his people after ten minutes. He completely contradicts Discovery's claim that conditions were "ideal."
Body still not recovered. Bad weather coming so not sure how much searching they will be able to do.
Met office says we will get some serious rain/winds here. This is one to watch. As stormed out as I am. I am watch

ing.

The current is very strong if you're in the water around any of the cuts in the reef. It will suck you through if you're too close and not watching yourself.

"The current is very strong if you're in the water around any of the cuts in the reef. It will suck you through if you're too close and not watching yourself."

I have noticed this also. Does anyone know if it is like that all the time or just when the tide is going out. outing tide= suck you out to see, incoming tide=push you closer to land away from the reef towards shore. Is this correct?

Wind, waves, tides - all have an impact on the currents in the cuts.

For SimonB and other local AC folks:

When we snorkeled in April, the current was moderate in mid-morning and mid-afternoon for 4 days straight. It would carry us if we drifted, but we had no problems maintaining speed. True, near the cut in 30" depth, it was stronger, but manageable. So my questions are...

Should tourists monitor tidal highs and lows each day (maybe sticking to excursions which coincide with incoming)?

Are these recent reports of lost divers and a snorkeler due to nearby storms or does it happen frequently?

Are there (should there be) restrictions in place for guides such as wind speed or current velocities?

Is the best response to an outflowing "cut current" pulling one out similar to that of a rip current? Let it pull you out then swim parralel to shore to try and cross the reef at another point? Is it even possible to swim back over the reef with waves breaking across it?

"Is the best response to an outflowing "cut current" pulling one out similar to that of a rip current? Let it pull you out then swim parralel to shore to try and cross the reef at another point? Is it even possible to swim back over the reef with waves breaking across it? "

When i was there in july, i(experienced surfer) went out surfing with a local,and found that the current was very strong, and it was sucking me out to sea(i had to constantly keep paddling), it was just like a rip current in that it would suck you out,i think it would take alot of enery to swim parrell to it and try and cross it to get back to the reef(allmost impossible if you don't have any energy left). i think once you got going far enough out than it would be to late to even try to make it,(with the right conditions =outgoing tide) then your out in the deep blue and that can be pretty scary.

TOURISTS SHOULD BE WARNED OF BOTH CURRENT AND WATER CONDITIONS BEFORE THEY ENTER THE WATER. AFTER THAT THE TOUR GUIDE SHOULD BE RELIEVED OF ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR SOMEONE'S MISHAP. ANTHING CAN HAPPEN..MAYBE THE OL GUY HAD A HEART ATTACK...WHO KNOWS.

Cruise ship tourists are of a special stripe in that they have never done some of the stuff they're trying out. It's just one great experiment and no worries because someone is watching out for them. Yeah, cruisers are the newlywed, the overfed and the nearly dead.

It needs to be forcefully told to them that open water anything is tricky and to be aware of your surroundings if nothing else.

Nobody di tol me noting - but it was pretty easy to see and instinctively to realize what was happening. We were on a guided trip back in the simpler days of AC to Hol Chan and surrounds on a lovely day in December for the first time once upon a time.

I think the main point is that the tourist was LOST. By "lost" I don't mean dead, I mean they don't know where he went, or when or how. Yes, many people overstress themselves diving and snorkeling on vacation. Some have heart attacks, dizzy spells, asthma - things happen. That is one reason a licensed tour-guide is trained in fist aid. None of these health events is automatically fatal - not unless you drown because nobody notices you are in trouble "looses" you completely.

"The old guy" is somebody's father, brother, son and friend - I hope to high heaven that none of his relatives read some of these heartless comments.

These huge snorkel groups do not work - fish flee, people can't experience the serenity of the sea, and it's darn near impossible for any guide however well intentioned, to keep track of a hoard of people in the water.

Snorkel with a buddy, and in small groups.

I've been a cruiser on many occasions (not to Belize) and have witnessed firsthand people trying things for which they are not fit. I'm old and overfed but in reasonably decent condition to do certain things but not all. Cruisers think that if the cruise ship offers a shore excursion they surely would not put their passengers at any risk. The description of the shore excursions lists certain fitness factors that should be observed by the passenger, but many overrate themselves. Having a buddy in the water who stays close to you at all times is the first step to not experiencing such a tragic event as may have happened in this case.

<<<makes note to NEVER go anywhere with Clover>>>

Still watching- No comments on St. Barbara?

Barbara lived in the 4th century and brought up as a heathen. A tyrannical father, Dioscorus, had kept her jealously secluded in a lonely tower which he had built for that purpose. Here, in her forced solitude, she gave herself to prayer and study, and contrived to receive instruction and Baptism in secret by a Christian priest.

Barbara resisted her father's wish that she marry. Then on one occasion, during her father's absence, Barbara had three windows inserted into a bathhouse her father was constructing. Her purpose was thereby to honor the Trinity.

Dioscorus was enraged by her action and by her conversion. So he himself denounced her before the civil tribunal. She was horribly tortured, and at last was beheaded. Her own father, merciless to the last, acted as her executioner. God, however, speedily punished her persecutors. While her soul was being borne by angels to Paradise, a flash of lightning struck Dioscorus, and he was hurried before the judgment seat of God.

The life of St. Barbara is a vivid reminder that there can be much anger in our world and in our lives. Being in touch with God's presence in a very special way can do much toward relieving ourselves of our tendency to allow anger to control us. We should pray often against a sudden and unprovided death; and, above all, that we may be strengthened by the Holy Viaticum (Last Sacraments) against the dangers of our last hour.

I have no idea how that relates to this topic GRAFFICE. If you have something to say let's not be cryptic about it.

Cryptic? Heck I'm not nearly that good...I just thought she was the Patron Saint for those with problems at sea and could be looked on for some grace in this instance. Maybe I need to study more? I was hopeing this might turn out well but sure don't know at this point. DG
WATCHING

I hope this guy is just "lost"...and nothing more.

quick question: so the snorkeling tour operators do warn snorkelers of areas to steer clear of, areas that are dangerous, etc?

I've only gone snorkeling with Searious, and I really like their guides. They are careful about where they take you, they warn you of what not to do, and they point out a lot of marine life.

But, I always remind myself to pay attention -- it's so easy to be watching a fish, or swimming along with a shark, and then realize you don't know where the group is. I take frequent glances around to be sure I'm a safe distance from the guide, and close to my buddy.

I think it's very smart to go in a small group with a local guide, that way he has no trouble keeping track of everyone. The problem with the cruise ship tours is that they come with boats that probably hold fifty people and there will be several of them at one spot at the same time. You can imagine that it would be easy to lose track of someone.
Tulu has a small boat and watches out for his clients. I'm sure most guides will do the same. They also know when areas like Hol Chan or Shark Ray Alley will not be having cruise ship crowds. We have seen times when you would swear that there are more people than fish at those two stops. Go and enjoy, just be smart.

The news said they had 53 snorkelers and 8 personnel, which is within the guidelines of 1 guide per 8 people, I wonder how many were actually in the water. That area is near a cut in the reef (I can see it from my verandah) and is known for tricky currents.

Crockhunter I agree!! There are times when the cruise ship crowd just takes OVER!!

I Must say that the statement earlier"The Newlywed, the overfed and the Almost Dead"....it really made me laugh! & CRY!@#&%@!Tourists, especially cruisers from a ship are particuarly vernerable because they expect that their cruise director will be navagiting the course on what they need to be doing and at what time...But if no one is looking out for them, where do they go? Is that sick!!

I just got back from San Pedro....on Sunday Nov 27th the outbound tide at Tres Coco's was running 3 mph (according to my tour guide)..equivalent to a comfortable walk....I got wet close to the boat, snorkeled near by and got out, had a beer and waited for a better day.
HEADLINE: Snorkeler survives dangerous waters in Belize!

Not the cruise director. They are in charge of onboard happenings. Shore excursions are contracted out to local providers of tour services. Some lines have a ship's rep go along with each group from the ship but most lines don't go that distance. All cruiser wrangling is left to the local guides.

hi all~~~

over the x-mas holidaze i heard from a friend who works for a different snorkel company that takes out cruise ship groups that this lost snorkeler had turned out to be an insurance scam.

anyone ever hear any official word on how this case turned out?

cheers
~~~gogo

how interesting that you deleted my post, that said just that , a scam. Even if this one was not.
censors never cease to amaze me. protect your precious little island, someday you will have to join the mainland.

Mr Payne

I was just woundering is there anything you like about San Pedro and Ambergris Caye or are you here just to provide the negitive side to things. I find most people on this board WOULD do most anything to protect there beautiful precious island and that is what they should do. I do not mean any offence by asking this just kinda woundering
J D

P.S. Do Not get me wrong I am not trying to start a fight either

jd , it would appear i like to provide the negative side of san pedro, but that is only because , it is usually swept under the rug9 the negative). I prefer to not have blinder's and post in that manner.

When i commented to others here about how they "widen the gap", what would that mean to you ?
My line is : to be offended is to have heard truth. that's when the "blinders"come into conflict.

LIKE THIS : Lemme see now, a$$hole, wanker, Payne in the ass moron. Yep Gaz, sure look like a trend to me.

Great vocab boys !!

John Payne in the ---

They probably deleted your post on general principles. They do that for wankers.

so there has been no official notice about this case?

maybe i'll have to get off my butt and try to look it up in newspapers or some other way.

thanks for the speculation opportunities, tho.

~~~gogo

belikin bill ,your are too funny,that was a classic..

Thanks Capt Jeff The guys gotta get a sense of humor. Hell Ive had a couple deleted on here big deal!!!! This was like a 3 months ago. Does he keep a list and keep track? Maybe someone stole his lunch money when he was a kid?