There was a great turnout of very concerned business owners and others at the Lion's Den this afternoon. The topic, a plea to our leaders, both local and national, to supply funding so that we can join all the other towns in Belize and enjoy the use of proper roads.

If you've ever visited our island in wet weather you'll be well aware of the dire state of our "roadways." They're not something we're very proud of and as a community we're very well aware how bad they must look to our honoured visiting guests. We also don't much enjoy seeing small schoolchildren attempting to get to school through and around 2 foot deep muddy wet potholes.

There are those who might say that creating proper roads will hurt the character of our little island. Not so...proper asphalt roads, coloured with coral sand chipseal to make them look sandy along with appropriate drainage and speed bumps will allow us to keep our island character AND our sanity.

If you'd like to support this effort please send an email with your comments to niceroadsplease@gmail.com . We'll print them out and attach them to the petition that was signed today by most everyone at the meeting. Tourists, regular visitors, locals living abroad, we need your support!

How are the roads in town paved with the paving stones working out in the wet weather?

They're OK. They drain off quite well. Cobblestones all over the island would be hugely expensive, though and they do take a beating from heavier vehicles. Asphalt much easier to repair and easier for utilites to dig through when they need to get to underground pipes etc.

If the Belize Bank is willing to invest $150 million into tourism related ventures on Ambergris Caye (contingent upon it owning 8,000 acres on north Ambergris) would the bank be willing to consider some of the investment going into the infrastructure of San Pedro Town - and more particularly into the road project?

They're fine unless a speeding taxi comes along and drives through the drainage area which happens TOO often. Of course they never stop to say they're sorry for drenching you.

I actually find most taxi drivers are courteous to pedestrians and cyclists in wet weather.

A technical question - would asphalt remain solid and non-sticky in the hottest of weather?

The airstrip paving seems to be working out.

Though in many areas it's wearing badly and will need early repair/renewal.

We're having a meeting with the Town Council in 1/2 hour....many thanks to those who have emailed niceroadsplease@gmail.com with your support...please keep the emails coming, we need a flood of support for this to happen.

Good show!
It was particularly encouraging at yesterdays meeting to note the complete absense of red and/or blue shirts. The organizers were wearing matching GREEN shirts. Hopefully as you meet with the town board and later with the boys in Belmopan you can steer away from any partisan politics.

let's all support Chris's request with about 1,000 letters to attach to the petition,I have sent mine as a property owner and investor on AC.Thanks for your idea Chris-- David Nisbet

GOB bails out shitty Universal, they should be able to help us bail the swamped SP and get some decent roads. The road to Bullet Tree is paved!! (why not ours). Asphalt sounds ugly but can be done very nice, Tulum is a great example, low key, far less development than AC and a great smooth quiet tar paved road through the resort area.

SIN

"I actually find most taxi drivers are courteous to pedestrians and cyclists in wet weather."

You're kidding right?

I find them DIScourteous in all weather.
Some severe punishment of offending taximen would go a long way towards solving this major problem.

Well said, SIN, you've hit the nail on the head. It really can be done nicely as well as for a reasonable price.

We've received 5 letter so far, the more the merrier, please. niceroadsplease@gmail.com

Meeting at Town Council went very well, everyone has pledged to keep politics out of this matter and to be courteous but determined in our dealings with all branches and areas of government over the coming weeks.

Asphalt!!!!! are you on crack? Asphalt would RUIN the island. So what if cobbles are expensive, and asphalt is easy and cheap, the easy, cheap solution is rarely the correct one. We've already cobbled most of the town proper, we'll just wait till we can afford it and cobble the rest on a priority basis.
I was recently in Dangriga, and Placecia, the roads are way worse and only get graded monthly or less, we get our roads graded on a "as needed" basis, and another thing, the recent rains, are completly unprecidented. Any infrastructure will break down at some point. The traffic in Houston (the firstest of the first world)was recently halted for days due to unprecidented rainfall. Unu stop di bitch! afta you live inna paradise mein!!!!!

When I was a kid it rained like this very often. Of course back then we didn't have any traffic and the excess water just ran into the sea.

Sometimes the easy, cheap solution is necessary to fix the problem immediately. Those of us that are mired in feet of mud or drive 2 mph to get to work and home each day would be pleased with a quick fix.

We can always tear up the asphalt in stages in the future and replace with cobblestones.

There are many miles of roads on this island the the 15K or so residents use daily to get to and from work or school. Now that sections of the roads have been paved we can see that it makes for a much more pleasant traverse.

The mechanics and doctors are probably the only industries in town that are possbily profiting from this situation at the moment - and I am fairly certain they would rather see paved roads than wrecked vehicles and wrenched backs.

I haven't noticed much focus on the dry, dusty conditions of the roads when there isn't any rain. Again, Doctors are the folks that see the serious health risk impact of our roads.

We have to fix the roads for a myriad of reasons but it all boils down to the basics, without the tourists this town will die, every dollar spent in this town is somehow related to the tourism industry. Tourists don't like the muddy potholes and they don't like the extreme dust - although most of us hate to see the end of an era - the sandy roads must go.

Yes we live in Paradise, and we would like to keep it that way as much as possible.

Rain = mud, sunny/dry = dust (both health hazards)

So I guess X W Y is going to pay for the cobblestones on his/her own then? Didn't think so. Accepting the roads as they are is more of a resolve for those who smoke crack.

Perhaps your version of the island was ruined when the doors of tourism were opened many years ago. It all is connected. Higher population = paved roads, no way around it unless a highway is built through the swamps for vehicles, and we know that won't happen.

Funny, the bridge didn't ruin the island? Wow, we are still here, people are still coming. Hmmph?

Pavement will definitely change things, as we are in an ever changing world. If people would pack up, move away and contruction companies would all go bankrupt, then I think we could keep the pretty mud/dusty streets. Deal? Who will be the first to leave? I guess we'll work on pavemnet then.

"Progress breeds problems" Rt. Hon. George Price

SIN

Two years ago it rained here for 90 days - straight!

"Yes we live in Paradise, and we would like to keep it that way as much as possible."

Yo amanda, if you pave it, it won't BE paradise again!!!!
paving and paradise are diametrically opposed, its axiomatic gial, "they bought a piece of paradise and paved it" to paraphrase the eagles.

Maybe i DID help pay for the paving SIN. Your argument is circular, amigo.

www.azulik.com in Tulum, paved.

Thank God the road are paved in Cayo, a true paradise and to Hopkins and to Punta Gorda and soon Placencia.

I can't see rivers or mud and dust storms as paradise. The sand paved streets did, at one time, add to the charm of Ambergris Caye, not any more.

I think IMHO that front street, in town, should be kept natural and closed to traffic - all day, all year and the remainder of the island should slowly be brought up to date with dry,clean roads.

Healthy children should be a primary concern, I think the visitors, whom we make our livelyhood from, would appreciate that as well.

SIN

Big ugly concrete buildings, piles of trash on the beach, vagrants without meaningful employment, excesses of large trucks, speeding taxis, golf carts, motorcycles and bikes, packs of stray dogs, unsupervised children running through the streets, numerous beach vendors, etc...how could a nice smooth road ruin our paradise? Perhaps it may be a step in the proper direction of taking back our Island which has paid dearly to develop the remainder of Belize and has also been greatly neglected and abused by the same.

That's one to marinate on.

SIN

YO SIN, if you think it's that bad then leave. Maya has a 5:00 flight.

I see you like to quote Gearge Price. I like this politicians take on difficult tasks:
We choose to go to
the moon in this decade and do the other things,
not because they are easy, but because they are
hard, because that goal will serve to organize
and measure the best of our energies and skills,
because that challenge is one that we are willing
to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and
one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
JFK

I think it's George though.

JFK was President of a developed country and got shot in the head by a magic bullet, GP is the father of a nation and has never been shot (even in Belize City), I would say he is a bit more like George Washington - who probably wished for pavement and had wooden teeth.

I'll stay and help ruin paradise thank you.

Happy Holidaze!!

SIN

Let me see...as I drive my family the couple of miles down to visit Amanda's house...
My wife gets grit in her contacts and the kids breath unhealthy dust.
And on a rainy day we wouldn't think about going due to the streets.
And I lost a flip flop one rainy evening walking from the SunBreeze to Pauly's Pizza and was splashed a few times by passing vehicles.
How will a few paved roads ruin paradise?
Tahiti-paved roads.
Hawaii-paved roads.
Whitsunday Islands-paved roads.
And maybe a few less mosquitos will hang out in standing water if the roads drain properly!
JMHO

JFK was talking about something difficult and unprecidented, and didn't shrink from the task.
WE are talking about the cheap/easy fix vs the expensive/difficult fix to a relatively simple problem, and are aparently choosing the former.
Washington had wooden teeth but i think you got a wooden head.

Good one reaper!

Jeez people, it's just roads! Relaaaaaaaaaaaaax. :-)

XY, a wooden head, for real?

I'm sorry but this is not an island paradise after a rainy day or two. Losing your shoes to the mud hole in the street...losing your cart to the crater you can not see for the water...losing you spine to the holes and wash board road.
Then there is the dry season when you wonder if you ought to wear a mask to protect you lungs or pass them out to all the children.
The only way this can be paradise is if you spend your days on the beach and someone caters to your every need.
Decent roads will not ruin this community, loss of business could and probably will. I sent my email. I hope everyone else will do so also.

AND
Beauty (and Paradise) are in the eye of the beholder.

I love my home, there are things I wish we could change, such as the roads, but it is still MY paradise.

No, this isn't the San Pedro of days gone by, but progress is inevitable, we can't bury our heads in the sand and hope that progress goes away. We do however have a chance to decide which way our progress is going to move. And with more children and immigrants arriving each day, we have to be able to accommodate each of their ideas of Paradise to the best of our abilities with our limited resources.

Be positive, provide constructive critism, help the community with your ideas. Together we can move forward.

Cobblestones, I presume, is the better more expensive fix? The cobblestones behind Ramon's are crumbling, once they do fall apart, will the private sector spring to replace them again after the recent painful tax hikes. Maybe? If they to assume the position.

Coconut Drive needs pavement, a lasting solution. Even a blockhead like me can see that..mein.

SIN

Hi Amanda, this brings up an even bigger point.
Is it time for Ambergris Caye to become their own Country?
Lots of tax dollars lost to the...well you know!
Just think what would be possible if all of the Stamp Tax, Bed Tax and Sales Tax stayed where it was generated!
Paved streets, nice schools, great fire and police protection and health care...
Sorry, I must have fallen asleep and started dreaming!

Amanda for Mayor!!!!! I'll stick to smoking crack from my wooden head, damn, sounds like a fire risk. Send funds for the Fire Dept., oh they can't move due to the streets.

SIN

Sucession! Oh boy, are you in trouble Amanda!! See you at the defacto HQ tomorrow.

Yo SIN, in a word yes!

Late miga/o

"Be positive, provide constructive critism, help the community with your ideas. Together we can move forward."

We deh pan de same page gial!
Peace out

L8r SIN

Last

I've been to Maui, Kauai, Ohau, Sanibal, Captiva, Hilton Head, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Ocracoke, Cape Hatteras, Dominican Republic, US Virgin Islands, British Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Arran, Islay, Mull, Manitoulin, Wolfe Island, Amherst Island and probably more than a few others. All of which were paved and all of which I considered paradise when I visited.

Paving the roads, as much as I regret to see it, is the only way we can continue to live in paradise.

Paradise is not driving your golf cart through a 2' deep puddle, climbing along a fence to make your way down the road, riding your bike with a skunk mark on your back, monthly sinus infections, watching your elders have to take allergy pills every day when 5 years ago they never had to, watching kids fall into the mud when they hit potholes on their bikes, having to get your back worked on everytime it rains for a few days and spending a small fortune on vehicle maintenance.

This island cannot survive another year without paved roads.

My 2 cents.

ex,why z, sorry I didn't get to reply to your earlier post. Whether it's asphalt, cobblestones, concrete, whatever, something needs to be done. Any proper road surface, properly constructed, will do just fine.

10 letters so far...please keep them coming, they will be forwarded to the appropriate authorities. If we can show that more and more people are concerned and even alarmed at the state of our roads it will help greatly with the lobbying efforts of our island.

niceroadsplease@gmail.com

Just enjoyed yet another joyful cruise through the sucking, oozing mud. Some mainland clay has been added to the mix. Don't know if I will make it out tomorrow if it rains anymore.

My golf cart is kind of leaning to one side - wonder what that means.

Send your letters to the address above in bold. Words can be a mighty tool.

I'm opening a Mud Therapy spa in front of my house, please don't run over my patrons!

just e-mailed in my views.... hopefully we can get enough concerned citizens and visitors to respond and put the pressure on the powers that be. i have only had to deal with the wet/muddy conditions a couple of times but i feel for those that have had to deal with this mess during the current rainy period. for me, i think the dry dusty conditions are almost as nasty. i do a lot of walking while on AC, and the dusty roads have kept me walking along the sea for the most part. my .02 cents... fwiw

Soooo, while reading this thread to Renita, she tells me that today (and of course, with guests on the back of the cart), she hears a "thump thump, thump, flpf, flpf, flpf, crash" and, asking the guest "did the wheel fall off?" ...of course not. The guest replied, "no, just the fender". The entire wheel well had come off and spun around about three times. After delivering the guest at the airstrip, she went back, got off the cart, and picked up the missing part.....oh, in the pouring rain.

At this point, I think we would settle for some wooden planks across Coconut Drive.

Please be careful when passing SIN's house....I may be in "therapy".

"This island cannot survive another year without paved roads."

Simon, of course it can - and most likely will. Not the best thing for residents or tourists, but certainly won't be the end of the island.

Anyone done any research into what it will cost to pave and upkeep? What was the cost of the cobblestones?

Answers to your questions are all under study now by the parties directly involved.
Meanwhile you can go and work to convice us that it can't be done. Maybe someone will pay you for your efforts.

My letter's sent.

Wrong Law, as a tourist destination rep is everything and when every tourist goes home and tells their friends how disgusting the roads are that's one less potential visitor to what is otherwise one of the best places in the Caribbean.

Jesse, I never said it can't be done - it can be done and it should be done. And someone's still studying how much it cost to do something that's already done? (cobblestones) or perhaps you just meant to say you don't know...

Simon, I think you underestimate the durability of tourists. I truly dislike the potholes, but of all the things I've complained about in San Pedro, that's never been one of them. I'd venture a guess that the problem is much more noticeable for people who must deal with it day in and day out than for someone visiting for a few days. The roads in San Pedro have been bad for years, yet tourism continues to increase. Commercialization and overcrowding will diminish San Pedro's draw far sooner than the poor roads. And certainly tourism will not have come to a grinding halt by next year.

I'm just a few hours away from my first visit. My friends as sure that we'll end up buy property, but even if we don't we'll be back and spend some more of our hard earned $$$.

After hearing about the roads and the water that stands around as a breeding ground for bugs... I'm not so sure.

Nobody likes change, except for a newborn baby...Whant to keep the tourist $$$ comming in, step up to the bar!

Lawcucui: "The roads in San Pedro have been bad for years, yet tourism continues to increase."....they've NEVER been THIS bad and, trust me on this one, if they stay like this or get worse tourism will fall flat on its face.

I'm quite sure our tourist guests deserve better than the crud we have to offer them right now.

Please send your letter of support to niceroadsplease@gmail.com ...it'll be much appreciated AND it will help greatly!

I'm going to send a letter. There was a time when the sandy streets and roads struck me as so cool, but in reality, a little paving done in a reasonably aesthetically pleasing manner would be better for all concerned. I've had grit in my eyes and teeth, lost a shoe in a mud hole and learned how to keep my shoes on but had them ruined from the mud. I've had my breasts bouncing up under my chin and my back jarred.

When I first heard of the paving (that is now in place), my thoughts were "what a shame". I found the reality to be that the cobblestone is quite pleasant and not at all unattractive.

San Pedro is too busy now and needs some more paving. I don't believe that people will stop coming because of it.

All that said, I've never really complained about the roads to anyone, though I have advised them of the conditions. Were I living there, my complaints would likely be as loud as anyone else's.

Doesn't everyone just love the relief they get when they are carting over by the beer distributor's?

Pontification. I am dogmatic prevaricator and I approve this message.

Right you are vic (law)!

I remember a couple of incidents prior to the cobble stone paving in front of Tropic Air when tourists would step off the plane, take one look at the sucking mud and turn around and get on the same plane back out of here to go to the city!

There will always be "durable" tourists that can handle less than ideal scenarios, however these days we have entered "mainstream" tourism and the majority of these visitors expect semi-decent roads, fairly reliable electricity & water supply, and a healthy environment free of germ filled dust and stray animals.

We need the mainstream tourist dollar to sustain our growth and maintain our standards of living.

I've not read all the posts, so if I'm repeating what someone else suggested, move on. Caribbean Development Bank approved US$12.6 mi at about 6% interest for 20 yrs to pave the Placencia road starting early 2007. Dr Barnett negociated for Belize. GOB needs to go back to the CDB to get the same for SP. San Pedro has generated plenty revenue for GOB over the decades. Airstrip is great, but you need roads desperately too. Hotel tax and gst could cover the costs.

I would hope so.

20 letters so far and all wonderfully well written and to the point....please keep them coming.

I understand that the Government is looking into this issue with some urgency.

Ministers have been over to take consideration and I understand the ride to Victoria House two days ago was eventfull for them to say the least!!

All discussed at the big meeting of business people. Where were you?

Working!!!!!!! But I was the one who spoke to the minsters!!!!!!

But of course, Beachboy; how would they make it without you?

Chris, I'm sending my letter in.

What a "Richard Cranium"

Tourist numbers seem to be down at present and the roads are atrocious. I don't know if there's a link, but I have heard lots of negative comments about the roads from visitors. I had the misfortune to head Amanda's way this afternoon, and really the extra mud which has been slapped on top of the surface at apparently great expense is totally disastrous. It's enough to stop a bicycle in its tracks. My letter's on its way.

I will attempt to word my letter to the Town and GOB a little more diplomatic. But, my first thought is to suggest that due to the roads, garbage, trash and general lack of infrastucture, "La Isla Bonita" might want to just refer to the island by it's name of Ambergris. Or if they are intent on a catchy phrase, to use the translation "Whale Vomit Caye". And I would be quite surprised if most of the cruise passengers visiting Belize City go back home and tell their friends of "La Ciudad Bonita de Belice".

The use of advertising slogans that cannot be lived up to and the desire to live in the past when San Pedro and Ambergris Caye were a quiet and quaint village and island and not realize that with development also must come the investment in infrastucture to support that development, will lead to many tourists leaving with a negative impression of the island and country that once gotten will take years and a much more major investment to overcome - if even possible.

from todays san pedro sun
http://www.sanpedrosun.net/06-501.html

No more potholes,” that was the general consensus that business owners voiced at a town meeting held on Monday, December 18th, 2006. Held at the San Pedro Lions Den, the meeting was very well attended with representation by many local businesses who all had one motive in mind, “how do we fix the roads?”

After writing a very passionate letter, Andre Perez was contacted by Elito Arceo. The duo along with other key business representatives met on Saturday, December 16th, 2006 and decided that together, as the business community, a change could be made.

“This is not about politics, this is about getting our roads fixed before our main industry – tourism starts to go down,” commented Perez to the crowd. After heavy downfalls of rain, the streets are a true maze. Finding exactly where to turn and which side to take becomes important or one might find themselves knee deep in water or to have their golf cart’s engine get wet and stuck smack dab in the middle of the water-filled pot hole. “Enough is enough,” commented Peter Lawrence of Pedro’s Pizza.

Arceo read a letter addressed to Prime Minister Honorable Said Musa which stated: […] The tax dollars of the businesses, working people and tourists of Ambergris Caye have long been a Government of Belize consistent income source. […] We know that you are very well aware of the deplorable conditions of the streets and roads in San Pedro Town. Through this medium we would like to inform you that the business community of Ambergris Caye has reached a unilateral consensus: San Pedro Ambergris Caye can no longer sail forward in the sea of progress unless drastic measures are taken to pave the streets and urgently. The business community of Ambergris Caye hereby urgently seeks the government’s assistance in addressing this grave matter no later than January 15th, 2007. […] we [business community] are prepared to work hand in hand with central and local government in order to jump start the process that will lead to the paving of all our major roadways no later than February 1st, 2007. The letter ended by stating that if prompt address is not given to this matter that the adverse effects will begin to manifest themselves, if not already through the gradual decrease in revenue. An upgraded road will benefit all residents, tourists and businesses to encourage further expansion, therefore increasing economic activity for the town.

The floor was open for questions. Santiago Acosta, gift shop entrepreneur asked whether the San Pedro Town Council had any plans for the roads that the public had not heard about. To this Deputy Mayor Justiniano “Nano” Guerrero presented estimates and plans of a road restoration project carried out by Joe Encalada of the Ministry of Works (see sidebar on Page 3).

To this Peter Lawrence commented, “I am fed up with surveys and studies … it is time for action. If Placencia can get $6.25US million to restore the Placencia Road why can’t we get help too?”

Other comments echoed were: Karen Canul, Ambergris Divers, “I suggest that we not work on Barrier Reef Drive […] let us concentrate on the road ahead of the Island Supermarket. […] As a business we get taxed by a percentage, why can’t we get money from the government as a percentage rather than a mere number?”

“We can’t handle a patch work – we need new roads,” Kevin Gonzalez, Travel and Tour Limited.

Javier Williams, Victoria House commented on behalf of the Belize Tourism Board that they are looking into the matter and taking it seriously.

At the end of the meeting, those in accordance signed the abovementioned letter, which was sent to Honorable Musa, as well as to Deputy Prime Minister John Briceño, Minister of Tourism Godfrey Smith, Minister of Works Mike Espat, Area Representative Manuel Heredia Jr., and Mayor of San Pedro Town Elsa Paz on December 19th, 2006.

How does BTB plan on helping?

The street/road issues have been a cry of concern for most of the business owners and residents for a while now, but with the lack of financial resources from the government, the restoration projects for better streets had been halted and only temporary solutions were made.

Minister of Tourism Godfrey Smith paid a visit to San Pedro on December 10th, 2006, at the time the roads were at their worst. Immediately he knew that this issue had to be addressed and had to be addressed fast. In an interview with The San Pedro Sun, Anthony Mahler, Director of Public Development for the Belize Tourism Board (BTB) commented, “This is a tourism emergency, it is an economic emergency. I know that Minister Smith has pledged his complete and total support to this matter. And here at BTB we all agree that this matter needs to be addressed promptly.”

According to Mahler, engineers have visited San Pedro in two occasions to assess the situation. Estimates and drafts should be ready prior to January. Plans will include, paving (not with tar, since environmental issues are considered), from Island Supermarket to past Victoria House. Barrier Reef Drive will also be addressed and plans for this according to Mahler will be to close off the street to vehicular traffic except for certain hours when businesses will be able to receive deliveries on their supplies. The street will then be lifted and refilled with sand, and with less traffic “easier to maintain.”

“We have heard of the Mayor’s plan and assessment, we are still going to go through with ours and hopefully she, along with her councilors will be able to work with us to find the best plan, one which will do the job but also be less costly,” Mahler commented. He ended by stating, “Addressing the street is urgent, and the Minister sees it as that. He is committed to making this happen.”

San Pedro Town Council Future Plans:

The San Pedro Road Restoration Project estimates and plans are available for viewing and commenting at the San Pedro Town Council (SPTC) office during normal working hours.

This preliminary design report was done so as to investigate the existing road conditions, pavement structure, alignment, drainage characteristics and social/pedestrian amenities. Accordingly, the main streets proposed for upgrade are Coconut Drive – Blake Street – Sea Grape Street to the paved standard of a primary road.

The streets proposed for upgrade cover a total distance of approximately 3.220 kilometers or 2.0 miles. The restoration project will demand only the highest in quality material for building. Materials such as; sub grade (structural fill), Sub-base, base course (crushed granular material), surface dressing chips, bitumen, concrete aggregates (course and fine), high density polyethylene, pipe culverts, ordinary and sulphate resisting Portland cements, and road traffic signs and furniture (line markings, pedestrian crossings, speed reduction ramps, etc).

The cost to carry out such immense project is broken down into several categories, reaching a whopping total of over three million dollars to complete. Cost for studies and surveys was ($152,100), Earth works which include site clearance, under cutting, and borrowing to fill is ($92,725), drainage ($1,625,760), Conventional pavement (option 1 costs 1,604,864.50), or Bituminous pavement premix (option 2 costs $1,324,139.50), road furniture ($65,590), day works which include labor and work materials ($41,749). For the project to be completed a sum of $3,582,788.50 for the conventional method or $3,302,063.50 for the pre-mix method, will be needed.

These figures and more of the projects data is available to the public at the SPTC.

Paved Streets on AC???? Sure, and how about a Wal-Mart and a McDonalds too. Fill in the holes and leave the streets sand.

Sorry Bing, but the days of sandy streets are long gone. With the heavy traffic these days the nice sand has been pounded down to dust when it is dry and slick muck when it is wet. I can't remember the last time I drove down the street and didn't have one or the other. I wish we could have sandy streets too, but that time has gone...

The steets of AC are not sand. They are dirt and dust that the volume of traffic has created from what used to be sand, which by the way, was only on some of the steets. Rain washes the dirt and dust away leaving the potholes. The tempory fix of grading the streets only lasts until the next rain. With all of the development and traffic, a hard surface is the only answer.

These cost estimates leaves one to understand better why Belize is in such an economic crisis. Fully understanding that the cost of this work is greater due to many factors primarily including transporting of all necessary equipment and materials to the island. But as just one example for comparison, understanding the comparison is not "apples to apples', two miles of road was put into a sub-divison in Arkansas - chip and seal surface - for a cost of $210,000US.

jesse - i know we had a talk yesterday. i asked bf (who is a property mgr & has seen lotsa paving in his day) what he thought the road base was orininally in puerto viejo. he said he thought 6" of lg gravel w 2-4" asphalt. i'm telling you, we've driven in many countries, and that road there was the worst ever. the asphalt left was the size of potholes, the rest was ridges, crevases and ravines, nearly impossible to traverse. even then, the tourists keep going there.

i am in no position to make a judgement call on what is best for SP and its residents, but i do think tourists like us, who see the charm of SP will keep coming back (and telling our friends to go) regardless. and perhaps the ones that balk at mud may be the kind of tourists sp doest need. as always, JMHO.

Well, aside from the visitors there are nearly 20,000 permanent residents who simply cannot put up with this situation any longer. It's dangerous to the health and well-being of our kids, and its destroying our vehicles. Charm be damned!

Last night a manager of one of the high end properties on the island told me that he'd had a group of 10 couples last week that told him they loved the island but they would never come back because of the roads. How many people do you think they'll tell their story to when they get back home? And how many do you think those people will tell. Tourism is a cascading business, both up and down. Our reputation took us up very quickly, it can take us down just as quickly.

Now that the mud is almost gone, the dust has arrived. I could barely breath this morning after spending all day yesterday driving around town. I swear the water turned brown when I showered off last night.

Woke this morning coughing up the dust I breathed in on the road yesterday. If I was on the road as much as you Simon I would wear a mask.

On my way to the hardware store to buy some in a few minutes.

Those of you worried about losing the "charm" of the island with paved roads....if the work is done properly with consideration to installing well-designed speed bumps and colouring the road a sand colour there is no reason why we can't stay charming. When I say "well-designed" speed bumps I'm not referring to those horrors at the back of Ramons, rather I'm referring to something similar to those on Princess Margaret drive in Belize City.

BTW, I think we should aim high. Paved roads all the way to Boca Ciega to the south including San Pablo and the DFC area. Paved road all the way to Play Blanca in the North (once they figure out where the road should actually go).

For those, again, who are worried about losing our "island charm" if we have paved roads...consider this: When the roads are at their worst so are the beaches....literally hundreds of cyclists use the beach because the roads are impassable. Most of them are construction workers and they are going to-from work and don't like (or need) to be told to slow down on the beach. They have families to go to at the end of a hard day. How "charming" is that for tourists (and locals/residents) looking to relax?

SweetJane "and perhaps the ones that balk at mud may be the kind of tourists sp doest need." ...that would be about 80% of the tourists.

Okay guys, I am going to let you into one of our little trade secrets.....
When the roads are really crummy, muddy, dusty etc I send my clients to Portofino, Sundiver, Caribbean Coves, etc and let them enjoy the areas of the island that don't have high traffic.

i concur...i am a tourist who doesn't care for the mud, dust, or potholes. i guess i am not needed on AC. it is always nice when another tourist tells me where i belong. very presumptuous.

That's so right Chris!

Like it or not, since have 15,000 plus residents to feed and house we need every tourist we can keep our hand on!! Yes this may be a little mercenary, but the fact of life is WE thrive on tourism, if the tourists leave us for other destinations we will wilt.

Yes the hard core visitors will always be here, but the majority of businesses would have to fold - I don't see how that can be good for our island.

gosh, pls do not rip at me for what i said. i clearly said i had no place to make the call, YOU do. i was not trying to imply anything about anyone. i have never been there when the roads are like they are now. i did not imply the charm will be gone if you pave, i only said you have charm now. boy, you are a tough crowd.

i only said it because i was just in a place that was once in your position, but the govt didnt maintain once done. i believe your situation is different, as you have more $$ coming in.

i did not personally insult anyone, and resent that i am personally being insulted by any of you. i am just human. mom always said no good deed goes unpunished.

Whoa Peter... those are some big words... “Enough is enough,” commented Peter Lawrence of Pedro’s Pizza.

SCARY MAN!!!

Close to 200 people at the big meeting agreed with Pedro...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!

I want to give him shhh whenever possible. Thanks.

San Pedro Daily:

I commend the people Of San Pedro for trying to get something done about the intolerable situation they face on a day to day basis concerning the road conditions in thier city.I hope they can finaly get the Government (in abstentia , it seems) to hear them and act quickly to alleviate thier concerns.

I am a " New" tourist to your wonderful Island, and I enjoyed my stay with you this past November. I'll be back, new roads or no new roads.

If, and when action is taken to correct the road situation I can only hope that whoever has done the survey, and put forth the proposed plan for the work that is necessary, that they have done thier Homework. That they looked at the geographics of the island as a guide on how to proceed with the project. One wrong move, I.e., in paving or drainage could lead to a disaster that would cost 10 times as much to Maintain/repair than the initial project itself.Poor paveing ( wrong material) will lead to errosion far worse than what is being experienced now with the substrate you have. Poor or lack of drainage will only lead to an ecological disaster if it is divered to the beautiful beaches and waters that surround Ambergris Caye. Right now the island itself,for the most part, is handleing the excessive amount of water you see on your roads by sinking into the land , much like it does in many parts of Florida. Pave that and it will have to go somewhere. Are you going to put in drain ditches? Where will they take the run-off? ( Take a lesson fron NY/NJ beaches on how NOT to handle run-off.)are you going to put in a sewer system? Is there a water treatment plant large enough to handle the run-off? Will the lack of drainage further exacberate your problems, errode your improvments faster than expected, and/or cause a natural cesspool that will eventually kill of the flora on the Island?

I may be preaching to the Chior here, but I would caution the residents to logicaly look at what is the right way to get thier situation improved and not " Knee Jerk" for a NOW fix. Be careful for what you are asking for. Don't go for the anything is better than what we have now approach. Your children as well as yourselves will be living with the consequences of this way of thinking for a long long time, based on the amount of time you have been battleing for this road improvement. The next fix, if done wrong the first time, could be decades in the coming.

I wish you all the luck in the world. However, luck is not what your in need of at the moment. It's determination and resolution to improve your city.That will win the day for you.

I hope to see your beautiful slice of paradise soon and often.

I'm never coming back to the fricking island unless the fricking roads are improved.

Most of the posts I read make reference to the road south of Island Supermarket. What about the road north of San Pedro Circle to the cut? Is this section being considered also?

sweetjane, as far as I can see Amanda and I disagreed with you. Please take some time to read the posts again...I cannot think of a single word in our posts which even implies any sign of a personal insult.

I just set 11 yards of Rock o the short stret we live on( Princess Drive/Endgray Street) and will put about 10 more on before the season is over. I know that it is difficult for most people to work on the streets, but if we all do what is within our capabilities to improve conditions, the concept may become more pervasive IMHO

Sorry for the poor spelling, no excuses for my poor communication skills...

chris, i appreciate your acknowledgment. most of what i said was what i saw in practice in another seaside town in another country. i am not sure what i said that could be disagreed with, except the last comment about tourists that balk at mud. and i said it was just an observation, an opinion. i do not envy your current situation. but, i was not directing my response to either you or amanda, but tim-o. your facts were fine, maybe it was the tone so early in the am. mom also used to say it isnt what you say, it is how you say it. i am someone who strives not to offend, so i guess i get defensive when it is implied i did. sorry, i think.

Well for what its worth i spoke to Junior, Elsa, Godfrey, and the minister or works, on the GOB side.Barry Bowen, Johnny Grief, and several other influentual residents. The unanimos concencious is to coble the whole town except for front steet which would be closed to most traffic.Then pave from Bowen to WASA with 4'x4' cement blocks.With some mix of the preceeding for ALL the streets eventually.This is suppose to happen sooner rather than later.
I'm out,
peace

Well for what its worth....sounds like an outstanding plan. Get er done. Unlike pizza, this is something that everyone can agree on. Power to the people....

OK, just for the sake of discussion and getting all possible thoughts into the venue of solving the problem, let’s look at taxes. I preface my remarks by stating that I am conservative in my politics and am generally opposed to taxing by the government to solve problems and thus I know these thoughts will bring great criticism from friends in San Pedro who feel over taxed and rightfully so. But, a major problem with the roads is due to the development and the increased traffic from all of this development. I must assume my part in this as an owner of property. But my point is, if the property I own in San Pedro was in many other places where roads were sufficient and other services were provided, I would be paying dramatically more real estate taxes. When you have half a million dollar condos and million dollar plus homes paying what they pay in real estate taxes, some would argue that you are getting what you are paying for, i.e.: practically nothing.

Ambergris Caye certainly has an obligation to send tax dollars to other parts of the country less fortunate. And, the argument is valid that Ambergris Caye should be getting a “fair share” of their tax dollars returned. But if that is not sufficient to solve the problems, then maybe the people of Ambergris Caye need to fine ways to be more self sufficient. Just some conversation for thought. Don’t be too hard on me Chris and Tim. After all, it is the Holiday Season.

Wow, I totally agree with you, bywarren. No one wants to pay more in taxes, but you are right in you get what you pay for. I do think, that with additional taxes, the local revenue should be policed by a group of citizens, to be sure that it isn't sent to the higher ups, who seem to have a real problem letting money trickle back down to where it came from. The schools would also benefit from an increase in property taxes. Proffers would be another option. When a developer decides to improve a portion of property, he would be required develop the roads in front of his property as well as 50-100' in either direction. This would take some of the burden off of the citizens, and place it where it would most likely get completed. Of course, this increase would be passed down to the buyer, but would be such a small increase that would likely not be felt as severely as a property tax increase.

I think it would be an excellent idea to triple the property tax on all beachfront land if we knew the taxes would go into something worthy, like the road. Right now they are only pennies and bywarren is right, we get what we pay for, NADA. Also upon yearly renewal of vehicles, Dump trucks should be charged an extra $1000BZ a year for the 'Road Fund', Pick ups $500, Golf Carts $100 for the 'Road Fund' etc. Also by making larger vehicles more expensive to own, less people may want large vehicles. Just my 2 pennies.

"When a developer decides to improve a portion of property, he would be required develop the roads in front of his property as well as 50-100' in either direction. This would take some of the burden off of the citizens, and place it where it would most likely get completed."

Your idea has merit. It would definately help . But there are some flaws in this arrangement. Here in Charleston, when you purchase property for development you are required not only to Lanscape it, but also lay roads into and around the property to include pedestrian sidewalks. However, the problem arises when the adjacent property is not purchased and lays vacant. You wind up with a series of roads that end abruptly, and sidwalks to nowhere.

It also does not address the buying of a exsisting property, I.e., a store front. You can require said improvements directly in front of the store. but the 50-100' feet on either side does not belong to you. also what do you do with the property accross the street from you. will they be responsible to join in on this improvement project so as to cover the entire steet 50-100" on either side of thier property. Even tho they pay taxes ( supposidly) for the Gov't to provide these roads.

Having said that, This idea would work quite well over time, especially on the North end of the Island . Which at the moment is going through mass construction projects.But I'm affraid would not work for the South side due to the abundance of already established properties.

If you are talking about increased taxes, the legislation , city and Country should consider a tax that is designated for the operation and maintenance of the City, and revenue is given directly to the city, from the collection points, and not passed directly to the National cofers. We call that City/State tax. But , like every other tax we pay it always seems to get lost in the overall picture and never is applied to the purpose of the levy.

Good points Sun&sand – I always feel someone has good points when they agree with me. But, let’s take it a step further. I doubt if there is a tax system anywhere where enough revenue is generated to satisfy all needs and everyone feels all are paying their fair share. I realize the immediate concern is to fix the roads. But, I wonder what thought is being given to generating revenues that will provide for the future needs as in repairs for the roads. Will the license fees for vehicles adequately reflect the wear and tear those vehicles have on the roads? In other words, will taxies pay more than golf carts? Will heavy construction vehicles pay their fair share? Will beer wagons pay theirs?

I would hope that the finally recognized and long over due realization that the road issue needs to be addressed will also encourage a look at the overall tax system. If Belizeans, and especially San Pedranos, expect to look to the Belize Government to solve the problems, God help us all. The more involvement and taxation based on local factors controlled by local authorities will improve the situation. Sure, Ambergris Caye needs to send a portion of the tax revenues generated to support the other less fortunate areas of Belize. But, an equitable percentage should remain in San Pedro. And, all who live on Ambergris Caye should be taxed to pay for services they need. You will not be able to generate the needed revenues by just taxing the tourist and the businesses associated with tourism as is reflected by the recent need to institute the GST.

If I expect to own property on Ambergris Caye, I should pay adequate taxes to provide the services needed just as I do where I own other properties. And, taxes should be paid by all living on AC to provide the needed services. If the tour guide living on middle street expects to have tourists to hire him, he must realize he also has an obligation to help pay for the services and infrastructure that is needed by not only the tourists, but also by the locals.

Now there, I have not only pissed off my friends living and doing business on AC, I have also pissed off my fishing guide.

(hi bywarren, long time no see! hope you are doing well. best personal regards for the new year)

Isnt that your purpose in life By?

Semper Fi

[b][/b]

Thanks for that purposefull remark, Ernie

Bywarren better pissed off than pissed on !!!! Merry christmas and a Happy and healthy new year.See ya soon my friend..

All good points to my comments, Jesse. My question is not whether taxes are being payed, but are the taxes addequate for what is needed. I do not feel based on the taxes I pay on other properties that I pay what is needed on AC and I doubt if the license fees and property taxes of others is adequate.

Agreed...raise property taxes and grant a nearly 100% exemption to homeowners for their primary full-time residence ONLY. Now how do we get that past GOB?

One more good idea on the homeowner exemption and probably the toughest question to solve i.e. getting the GOB to act responsibly.

PS: I meant the homeowner exemption is a good idea as far as discussing solutions - I do not necessarily agree that anyone should be 100% exempted from paying for sevices that they get.

GOB acts POLITICALLY...always.

Here in Florida the first 25,000 assessed value is exempt, but only if you declare this your primary home. (Snowbirds don't get the exemption) There is also a 3% cap on increases, again for homestead only. Something along these lines may work.

There seems to be many ideas of how best to correct this deficit. Unfortunately, time is running out on deciding how best to approach the roads problems. I don't think anyone should be totally exempt, but I do think there should be allowances, for those who live there full time.
I'm not sure what the best way would be, but we sure have some smart people on this board, who all seem to have some pretty good ideas. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
I hope the boarders are kept informed. Chris, thank you for keeping us up to date on it so far!

Hi All,
I've been reading this entire thread and have only a few points to add. I love the sand roads, hate the mud and dust. Paved roads would not change my love for the island, it would add more income to a place that will always be in my heart. There is a large market of wealthy older folks that just won't brave these conditions. We are talking high rollers folks, who spend tons of money! I for one would be willing to hand a private contractor $100 everytime I stepped foot on the island if I KNEW he would pave a small section for me.
Here's an idea which excludes the GOB:
It's called a fundraiser.....
I love AC and would contribute to see it prosper. I'm not rich, work with my hands. I earn every dollar I make the hard way. Am I willing to part with it to see things improve...YUP.

Lets Get Peter to be the contact for collection and dispersment.
Rome was not built in a day, but AC could improve 1 paver at a time. I liked the pavers when I was there, they fit in well.

This is only an idea folks...

Most people who really love AC would be willing to help.
See you all in April...roads or no roads.

Has anyone seen the street watering truck in the last few days? My lungs are screaming. No way can I go by road anywhere tomorrow unless it rains. This is not fun folks. cough, cough, cough

Water truck? They haven't even graded half the roads yet.

Dust masks are available at Castillo's.

Yesterday I read all twelve pages of this post. – “Very interesting” as Arty (Laugh-In) would say, “But not funny!”
A week or so ago one of the builders here on the north had his entire crew work a number of days (at least three) improving the road. From the entrance to Bermuda Landing to the entrance to The Villas @ Del Rio, they dug a trench along the Iguana wall on the south/east side of the road. This they framed and filled with concrete. Then the dug a trench parallel at the right distance to create a second strip. They used the sand dug out for the trench to raise the bed higher than the existing cart path (you do know there is NO ROAD up here don’t you?) The various properties have easements through them.
The second strip was only about half finished the night that a VERY LARGE piece of machinery drove down the cart path from somewhere north of the Palapa Bar to the bridge in order to hook up to a small cement mixer and tow it back north. Customarily these are pulled by hand.)
Just south of the entrance to The Villas @ Del Rio there is an area that keeps caving in – many many people have been stuck in the mud in this hole. The size of the tires on this BIG RIG is about the size of a regular golf cart – can you imagine the rut he cut? SOOOOO – on his was back he took the high side – YEP! Right through the wet cement.
Needless to say the builder was more than a little disheartened!
I hope you have noticed that I have not named any names here – but the responsible parties know who they are. If only more developers would take this initiative and if those guys with the big scoops on the front of their rigs – the ones who are doing the most damage – would fill in their tracks as they retreat – we could all celebrate.
It has been reported that some officials plan to attend the North Ambergris Caye Neighborhood Watch meeting tomorrow (Saturday) at noon at the Palapa Bar to report the new legislation governing much of this. All are invited to attend.

A hard 10 minute shower just came though. That will kill the dust for a few hours. C'mon paving!!!

ScubaLdy, let's give credit where credit is due......the contractor that was trying to improve the road before some idiot decided to drive through the cement was Chris Barenfanger....go Chris!! It's too damn bad that the contractor on the lagoon side doesn't pitch in and help with our "road" since they are the one's with the heavy equipment destroying it on a daily basis. See ya in February!

Hi Al - Actually - this time it was NOT Reef Village who did the damage. Yes, Chris is the one who did GOOD.

Thanks to Chris Baranfanger for at least coming up with an idea--maybe we should all send him some money since he has a concrete mixer working daily on NorthBeach,we could cut out the middleman

I hate to see this thread die. Chris what is the latest as far as receiving letters of support, etc.

This thread is going to die isn't it? Maybe it will take as long to get decent roads as it took to get our bridge!

The organized program to pave the roads is progressing, just not on this message board.

San Pedro Daily, thanks for the update!

Hold onto your seats - you are not going to believe this!
Starting yesterday loads and loads of sand/gravel mix has been dumped along the lagoon from just north of the bridge up to Reef Village. What I drove on yesterday was a flattened out secion raised a decent bit above the old level so maybe it will drain into the lagoon. I'm not sure which one of the developers up here is doing it - they are using very large equipment. Let's hope it will hold up.

ScubaLdy, that is indeed good news! Sounds like it may be the guys from Reef Village. If it is kudos to them!

We are meeting with the Minister of Tourism tomorrow afternoon and will be presenting the case for proper roads on Ambergris. This isn't going to die as an issue, no need to worry about that. People here have had enough. I'll be taking printouts of the letters we've received. Many thanks for your support.

Chris, thanks so much for your ongoing efforts, as a propety owner on AC, my wife & I really appreciate it! Anything else that we can do we will step up to the plate.
Al & Janet Kruebbe

This is simply a general quote aimed at no one person in particular. My comments are merely my personal views and should be considered as such!! Nobody should get their feelings hurt nor should this thread become a platform for non-constructive critisism.

The company with really huge vehicle that was pulling the cement mixer is one of the main groups that is fixing you road. Maybe you would like to give credit where it is due once in a while instead of disguised descriptions, guesses etc.

In order to work on the streets you still have to get certain government approvals etc. and then you need to be able to locate and transport the hard core and sand. These things do not happen overnight.

If you want to see the road works proceed in a legal, planned manner you have to have a little patience and be less reactionary.

Minister of Tourism is extrememly concerned about our streets and we will all be eager to hear the outcome of the meeting today.

good luck to you all, i truely hope it works out for you.

We had a good meeting yesterday with the Minister of Tourism and it looks like the government are keen to fund the construction of some new roads. Now the debate begins as to what type of road. We have a committee meeting on Monday to formulate a unified position and on the 17th January we have a big meeting with the minister again as well as with the bidding contractors. So, onward and upward (I hope).

Thanks for the update, Chris. It's pretty exciting, I think, that the roads will be finally upgraded. As much as they have contributed to the charm of SP, the health of the people on the island and the ability to move about are a little more important. Please keep us posted....see you next month.
Susan

It appears from the article in the San Pedro Daily that the government has made preliminary plans to asphalt the road between Bowen & Victoria House. There is no mention of the road between San Pedro Circle & the bridge. That stretch of road is just as bad. Other than the lack of $$$, why is that portion being left out of the plans. Anyone know?

I spoke to that reporter, her info is innacurate.The road will be cobbled.SOON!

"I spoke to that reporter, her info is innacurate.The road will be cobbled.SOON!"

Can anybody on AC confirm the statement ex,why z? made above.

More resorts/investment south of town (for roads). One step at a time. The beach road is not that bad in Boca del Rio, no way can it compare to Bowen south.

SIN

Word up, sin!
Every body wants EVERYTHING all at once.
Da big boss me take 7 day fu mek ALL!!!!

Looks like Benny's, Grand Caribe conds, and Reef Villager are working on the road immediately north of the bridge.

The road south of town from Bowen to Victoria house is atrocious - almost impassable in areas. Took me 1/2 hour to town today (2 miles)

The Boca Del Rio beach road is perfect and the main street Laguna Drive of north San Pedro is a breeze compared to the southern road.

Most resorts more than a mile north of town traverse by boat.

So the main southern road should probably take priority for immediate attention.

Money talks! It is a shame that Front Street – where everyone goes – isn’t top priority.
Amanada
Have you been up here? My electric golf cart is north of the Palapa Bar and I can't get it back through the many lakes. We now have a section referred to as Lake Pierce. From the intersection of the spur where the dump trucks come off of the barge to the north end of Reef Village is one big lake. The piles of sand that I thought Reef Village had brought in to build up the road is being spread over the muck that has been dredged up out of the lagoon to create land on the lagoon side of the road. This fill is higher than the road and now there is no place for the rain water to drain to.
I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say Benny’s is working on the road. They are building a project north of Mike Hancock’s place and are running the biggest piece of equipment I have ever seen back and forth between that and the bridge. The tires are bigger than a golf cart and cut huge ruts in the soft muck. This is the rig that destroyed the cement tread that Chris Barenfanger laid down. I talked to the operator and he admitted he was the one who did it and said he reported it to Benny and that something was going to be done to fix it! Right! I also talked to him about using the big scoop on the front to level out some of the deep holes north of the Palapa Bar. He said sure – but nothing has happened.
I don’t know what project Grand Caribe is or where they have done road work.
Many of the smaller owners are doing what they can to fill some of the holes. Some things help – many don’t.
I agree that the roads south of town have more pot holes than the roads north. However, the ones south are like mole holes and the ones north are craters. Unless developers are made to improve the roads where they are building BEFORE they build nothing will be done. I don’t hold out hope for this but it is a nice fantasy – oh yeah – there are even places in the world where it happens.

I usually travel north by boat because it is much more pleasant. I can imagine that the lakes in the Reef Village area are indeed impassable at this time. Obviously a few piles of sand won't improve the area. That area is going to need a road to be built before it can be paved!

The southern road used to have craters and what seemed to be bottomless pits. Over many, many years these holes were eventually filled. Entire house loads of solid material were thrown into the craters to fill the holes.

Developers are not the only tax payers that should bear the brunt of the expense to improve the road. We all use the roads and we will all need to do our part and more importantly our government must step up to the plate too.

Many positive steps are being taken to begin the process of improving and maintaning the roads. There will be another public forum to discuss this on-going endeavor next wednesday. Not sure where the venue will be yet but I am sure it will be posted soon.

By the way, for those who have not had a chance to keep up with recent developments - the newspapers have reported that the front street in town is the #1 priority and will be cobblestoned with works possibly begining as soon as mid-february.

I'm trying to read between the lines because frankly I'm just not as up to speed on the situation as all of you. But I would hope that if a new tax, fee, mitigation plan,whatever is started, that each area is able to receive some of the funds for improvement. Our local entity here in CA is wonderful at collecting money but has been unable to build one piece of road.
Of course millions have been spent on studies and reports. So I would hope that if North or South is paying for road improvements that at least a percentage of it go toward their areas for future improvements. And for your own sake follow the money as it has a funny way of going toward worthless contracts to family members, or just ripped off. So yes you're not alone because California is another place in the world where it doesn't get done. Scubldy you're right on with the last sentence but it is frustrating when a politically connected developer uses funds that have been collected from everyone to benefit their own project. A complete reversal of what was intended.

Just read the recent National Geographic. Did you see those manmade islands around Dubai (UAE)???!!! Holy moley, that's what we need here. Looks like some places do achieve what they plan and propose. Anybody want to move??

We are in a developing nation, we can coax improvements along and that is what the road committee is achieving, it's simply not an overnight project and like it or not, some of us will have to get our hands mucky filling in some of the holes ourselves until the "master plan" is completed.

"Money talks! It is a shame that Front Street – where everyone goes – isn’t top priority."

At the risk of continuing my usual position as contrarian up in here, i think front street from the elementery school to Paradise (Phonix?)should be essentialy CLOSED TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. It would be a small taste of the old San Pedro, we loved.

No argument here Amanda. I'm just saying that no matter where, the problems are the same. And definetly the politicians should be using tax money to do what needs to be done. But on the other hand it generally costs the government about 4 times what it would cost if we just did it ourselves. It sounds like some good people are working on the "master plan" I certainly hope so. No this body doesn't care to move. Maybe we could get some grant money from Dubai.

Amanda, yes we all use the roads, mainly with our golf carts. And yes golf carts do some damage, but not nearly the damage that the dump trucks and backhoes do. If a developer is doing damage to a road, he should be the one solely responsible for the repair. Why should be bear the brunt of someone elses negligence. Are we responsible for adding to their bottom line?

OK, how about this:
We raise $3.6 million to pave by levying a fee on each vehicle. A fee proportional to the vehicle size and damage to roads.
Golf carts $2,000
Taxis $6,000
Cars, Pickups $4,000
Dumptrucks $40,000
Backhoes, etc.$40,000

This would yield about $3.6 million if EVERYONE paid.

Not just the islands around Dubai, Amanada. The international airport in Hong Kong is built on manmade land.

Unfortunately, Belize just doesn't have the budget of Hong Kong and Dubai.

Regardless, your point is made, IMO. If those countries can create land, then Belize should be able to figure out how to get rid of potholes.

Here is an interesting article about the Dubai projects. http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33190/story.htm

Lots of posts about the roads...The following information might help put some of these arguments in perspective:

1. Thursday 11th January our loosely formed "road committee" (being Elito Arceo of Seaduced, Andre Perez of Pan Dulce Bakery, Einer Gomez representing Ramons, Tim Jeffers of Banana Beach. Terry Cochrane of Mata Rocks and me of Pelican Properties met at the Town Board with Hon. Manuel Hereida, area rep Belize Rural South, Elsa Paz, Mayor and Nano Guerrero, deputy Mayor of San Pedro Town.

2. The Mayor presented a plan for cobble stoning the following road sections of the island:
(a) Front Street (work said to commence within 2 weeks) and side roads leading to beach and lagoon.
(b) Road from San Pedro Distributers to Belize Water Services south of Victoria House.
(c) Road from San Pedro Supermarket/Ritchies Supermarket to the Bridge.
(d) Back Street.

(b) (c) and (d) not yet funded. (a) is already funded as the contractor has agreed to give interest-free credit to the Town. Cost 1.2 million BZE / 600K U.S.

(b) (c) and (d) above to be funded by the town borrowing money and also hopefully some funding from Central Government of Belize. Before the Town can apply to borrow money it has to get government permission. Belize Bank Ltd. have said they will lend (but at what interest rate is not known). They will only lend for cobblestones or concrete, not for asphalt. Total cost of (b) (c) and (d) to be $6.3 million BZE/ $3.15 Million U.S.

3. Our little committee gave the Town Council full support in this plan...we were not expecting to but we realized that unity as an island will be terribly important if we are to see this thing through. If they (the Town Council) can get the funding sorted out for all of this, great, and cobblestones, even though they cost a lot more, is just fine.

4. No need to stop there, though! San Pablo, the DFC area, San Pedrito, side roads of San Juan are all in dire shape, as it the road north of the bridge (as has been discussed to utter exhaustion in this thread). People live on those parts of the island too and as an island we pay enormous amounts of taxes to the Government of Belize. Our committee has determined that it is time for some of our tax investments to be returned to the island and we think the Government of Belize recognizes that if our roads continue on in this diabolical state for much longer our island infrastructure will simply collapse and tax revenues will follow suit.

5. "Extra taxes or vehicle levies"....we already pay enough to Central Government...some of that money needs to be re-invested back into the island. "Belize is Broke" is not an argument for the neglect of its 2nd largest population center.

Better for the government to invest in the island now for greater tax return later. For the Government of Belize proper assistance in paving the roads now will result in greater tax revenues in the future as property values will increase and so will tourism.

6. Right now, how many people living here on the island have heard tourists say "we're never coming back, these roads are a joke." I can tell you it has been said A LOT recently. We will feel the pinch soon if we're not seen to be acting to correct this immediately.

7. Asphalt:
There has been talk of asphalt being a pollutant and also of asphalt being unsightly and not strong enough for roads. Points our committee has made on those arguments:
(a). Asphalt causes pollution: The Hummingbird Highway is asphalt and plants and animals are not dying by the roadside. Many of the pristine Caribbean islands use asphalt for their roads without ill effect. Once asphalt dries it really stays quite stable. I have never heard of a reef being killed by asphalt roads.

(b)Asphalt is unsightly: Asphalt can be made to look just like coral sand. It can be chip sealed any colour or texture. There's a road in Spanish Lookout which has been chip sealed sand coloured and I've been told it looks stunning. Banana Beach Tim informs us that there is a gorgeous asphalt road leading to a Mayan ruin near Chetumal that has been coloured the natural limestone colour of the area. It also looks amazing.

(c) Asphalt isn't strong enough: Why are so many of the world's highways made from it? An asphalt road, properly engineered with correct drainage and properly constructed, is tough enough for any traffic we can pound it with on this island. Concrete shoulders on each side (also acting as sidewalks for pedestrians) would ensure that the road edges would not crumble. A concrete 'V' drain down the middle (same as on Pescador Drive/Middle Street) would ensure that standing water would not be a problem.

I mention those asphalt arguments because I recently spoke to one high flying businessman who said that he would sooner "die or leave the island or see the roads stay the way they are" rather than see asphalt roads constructed here. I mentioned the arguments about colouring the asphalt to look like coral sand, proper drainage, engineering, all that stuff to no avail. His mind is set. No asphalt. Period.

Not helpful.

My point is, what if that (asphalt) is all the government will assist with in the areas not being paved as part of the Town Council plan? Do we let people suffer through more rainy seasons, each becoming worst than the last because of the increasing traffic load of a growing island? Asphalt is cheaper than cobblestones, if the government will assist us on the other parts of the island with asphalt only and if the alternative is no alternative except the present nonsense we're suffering through now, we should accept.

8. And, what about the terrible health issues being brought about by the dusty conditions in dry weather? Most doctors here on the island will tell you that the dust during dry season is a serious health hazard. I for one believe them.

9. The Town Council and Area Rep have a good plan. The Minister for Tourism says he's very concerned about the state of the roads here and is determined that the government of Belize will help. The Prime Minister wrote to our committee and said he's deeply concerned and is willing to act without delay. Our little road committee sees first hand every day that our little island will be in dire straits unless action to pave our roads starts right away.

Let's work hard as a community, work with the Government and Town Council and let's remind all parties, if we need to, to keep everything away from politics because this is about economic survival and the general health of the island, nothing less.

And if some of the roads end up being cobblestone and some end up being coral sand coloured asphalt, so be it, as long as all are properly engineered, strongly constructed and properly drained.

10. Oh, and don't forget the speed bumps... Must keep everyone honest speed-wise and we must also make our Isla "Bonita" again. If businesses and private individuals are to be asked to "chip in" to help with funding for what is, after all, a pretty basic government obligation, it ought to be for the speed bumps (we want our island traffic to move at a gentle island pace) and for the beautification of the road. We wouldn't want special treatment for the island...give us the basic properly roads and we'll make sure they're beautiful.

Correction, it's "Terry Anderson" of Mata Rocks, my apologies.

But to be fair, if it wasn't for the dump trucks and other heavy equipment we wouldn't have been able to build the hotels, condos, banks, homes, restaurants etc that we all enjoy every day. So, the roads are everybodys responsibility. The developers are not the only people that use heavy equipment. When you buy a new fridge, stove, golf cart, load of sand, school supplies, vegetables, canned goods, toilet paper etc. how do you think these items arrive at the store?

Even a construction worker that walks or bikes from his home in San Pedrito to his job site 6 miles north of San Pedro utilitizes the roads and can attribute a portion of his livelihood to the roads.

No roads, no development, no development, no additional tourism, not enough tourists, not enough jobs, no tourist jobs - this town will die.

These are OUR roads and we can all contribute in some way.

I would love front street to be closed off to vehicular traffic too. I would prefer to see it sand than cobble stone. If the street closes down then deliveries will need to be made by wheelbarrow etc. preferably at off peak hours. But now we are talking about changing entire life styles and companies begining to creat night shifts etc. There are no (ok very few) parking lots it town. So if I had to park my vehicle somewhere and then walk to the bank, where would I park? Whew, so many factors to consider.

Chris,

Thanks for all the great work that you and the committee are doing. It is a subject that really needs to be addressed now. What about infrastructure like fire hydrants - is that also being addresses now?

Thanks

Chris, I hope anything I said wasn't taken wrong they certainly weren't meant to be negative. I too thank you, and all the committee members for the time and effort for all of our benefit. I spent a couple of years on a economic development committee for a rapidly growing area. And found out how time consuming it can be and generally unappreciated. so THANKS

Chris, at the risk of sounding redundant.... your work is greatly appreciated. Even though, like most of us here, I do not live on AC, I am sure that those who do reside there are equally appreciative.

DB

Again, Chris, thanks for the updates. You always give us the facts and that's much appreciated. The offer of a cold one stands when we get there. Looking forward to seeing you again.

Let me preface this by saying THANKS to those of you working on this project.....

Two questions/concerns...

Being a survivor of Coconut Drive, I am wondering if anyone knows an approximate cost per foot of the cobblestoning. If I knew the distances of the front street project I could figure it out.....

Point being that if the cobblestones are, let's say, $10.00 BZD per foot, then I think many of the businesses and residents along Coconut Drive would gladly pay to have the cobblestones put in. If an owner has 70' of street front, or $700 worth, AND they split that cost with the residence or business across the street from them, wouldn't we all pay to have this done?

Second, if and when Coconut Drive is paved/cobblestoned, there has to be some action by the traffic department to keep the dump trucks/backhoes/semi tractor trailers/trucks delivering from the barge at Perla, on the street running west of Coconut Drive (I think there was some ordinance a while back but it has NEVER been enforced) or the cobblestones will start breaking and coming up. The speed bumps won't work as far as I can tell, because most of the operators of these huge vehicles have no vested interest in the vehicles....just like you can tell who is on a rented cart and who is on their own cart......

Those large vehicles rip through from the Island Supermarket's last speed bump to the curve at Barefoot Iguana sometimes as fast as 40 mph. We can see what this does to the sand...so it would only take a little longer to pull up/tear up the cobblestones.

I guess I am trying to avoid the "putting a bandaid on a severed limb" mentality. It sounds like we will get the paving done...with some financial help, but then we have to focus on maintaining the streets after they are finished.

Hi Shuffles, I can't remember the numbers exactly but the figure would be more like $10 US per square foot installed. So a 70 ft stretch of road, by maybe 30 ft of width would be 2,100 sq ft or about $21,000 US. Even if that is Belize dollar it is way too high for most homeowners and business people to dig into their pockets.

I think the plan is either asphalt or concrete road surfacing in your area so certainly speed bumps/sleeping policemen and speed enforcement will become a huge issue when the road is paved.

Maintenance is going to be a big expense too. But if we all put the money that we spend on our vehicle repair, bike repai, ruined muddy shoe replacements, doctor visits due to bumpy roads and dust related illnesses we should have the maintenance fund licked!

Shuffles,

Your prices are a little off. Each mile of cobblestone (assuming a 30ft wide road) is just about 4 million BZE. Divide that by 5280ft and you get $757.00BZE per foot. Your 70ft frontage would actually cost $52,990.00.

Nice thought, wouldn't it be great if is WAS $10BZE a foot!

Hey, my guesstimate was within the ballpark. Shockingly expensive.

Any "press release" available after the big meeting yesterday? My kids are reporting to me the complete opposite of what my business partner told me about the meeting.

Please post the facts.

Thanks

What about adopt a cobble stone program.

Then everyone can be tooting horns about which part of the road they contributed lol.

taco, good idea! lol

If we end up cobblestoning front street that might be a great place to "sponser" bricks. We could have them engraved and dated. I remember when they did that at Disney World and each time I visit there I take a little time out check them out.

GREAT IDEA!!! mexican fast food, female!