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Joined: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by Otteralum
other forms of care that Americans can schedule next week but Canadians have to wait months for.


I keep hearing that being brought up but I've never known anyone that it's happened to. I've had a couple of non emergency surgeries and have never had to wait more than couple of weeks. My father who was diagnosed with brain cancer had surgery the morning after it was discovered.

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To quote Dave Barry: If you think health care is expensive now, just wait to you see how much it costs when it's free!


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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Keep in mind Bobber, we don't have the numbers of undocumented aliens here in Canada that you have there (not even remotely), but I believe they would be charged for services received. Also, we have extremely low numbers of patients suing doctors, which plays a part in the cost of malpractice insurance doctors here have to pay.


It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
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Well, Nuts, your southern border is a lot more secure than ours is. I agree the malpractice insurance here is crippling (my wife is in the medical field).


Been there, done that, the washing machine ate the T-shirt
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Good questions Bobber. Truth is, the Canadians, Brits, and others don't have to budget for a system that cares for millions not paying into the system. America CANNOT have an E.U. or Canadian-style system --- even if we wanted to.

For some hybrid form of universal care to work in the U.S., there needs to be

1) Serious tort reform that limits malpractice liability and thus the ordering of unnecessary tests that do nothing but cover asses.

2) Immigration reform that first secures the border and then secondly determines a permanent status for those here illegally.

3) A two-tiered approach whereby those needing preventative care and/or non-emergency treatment are cared for outside of emergency rooms -- followed by a truly free market for advanced-level care.

4) A way to keep capital flowing into medical innovation without regular joes having to pick-up the tab. Right now, Americans are paying for drug innovation while the rest of the world gets subsidized.


I will have a Belikin -- put it on klcman's tab.
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And to clarify, we DO pay for health care here - it certainly isn't free. Every time I gas up my car, buy clothes, booze, cigarettes, lottery tickets, furniture, hair cuts, land, junk food, etc, I'm paying for my health care thru taxes. If we did have a high number of illegal aliens, virtually every purchase they made would contribute to the health care system pot.


It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
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Consumption tax versus income tax -- brilliant! Right on nova!


I will have a Belikin -- put it on klcman's tab.
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Hey, what better way to make the illegal aliens pay for their own health care?


It's never too late to have a happy childhood!
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OH, but that is discriminatory (in some way). Sarcastically, he says. Of course Nuts, nothing is actually free, it has to get paid for somewhere, and naturally it is the consumer in general that picks up the tab. Only in America is it perceived that some "costs" can not be passed on to the consumer.


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IME - they have their vehicle gased up, bring a cooler or 3 of food & drink. Picnic in the US hospital waiting room in packs of 20+ (don't they have jobs ? & shouldn't all those kids they drag along be in school ?) while our tax dollars pay for grandma's eye surgery (welfare), and their sister's 'emergency child birth' while on a 'shopping trip' across the border (another little citizen ???), and so on, and so on. All we do is offer them an application for welfare when we find that they have no US address, no SSN, no method of or intent to pay. They are bold in their expectations of our care.
They are not contributing to our economy. They come across amazingly prepared and EXPECT that reputed wonderful US health care on a silver platter. And we don't question payment with care, that is a US taboo/conflict of interest. Why doesn't MM cover some of this US economy-draining-whallup-the-tax-payer-on-the-other-end to cover loser behavior by non-citizens ? and 'indigents' ? with 50 - 300 !!! visits to a single hospital (the numbers are equally high for other hospitals in the area). You rarely see such abuse with people that have routine visits to pcp's & dentists and HAVE TO PAY A COPAY WITH THEIR ER VISIT. We will NEVER see MM cover something like this. Never.


when in doubt...do without
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