It seems to be fashionable in Belize to ignore the effect illegal drugs has on innocent people. For example, I know a dive boat belonging to me was used to recover cocaine (probably), which was then sold on the black market. I only found out months later, and the people responsible, none of whom works for me now, seemed to think it was amusing and a perfectly valid way to get rich quick.

But read http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=THH0M3MF2TDZZQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/31/ncoma131.xml and see whether yoiu think it's so harmless.

I think you may have your drugs confused, it was unlikely to be heroin, more likely cocaine. Which has ruined many lives in Belize.

...as well as alcohol, but most of us are all for that drug on this island.

I'll have you know that beer is an important part of the food pyramid! (hic.)

The perceived Evils of Recreational Drugs seems to vary dependent on the Drug(s) of choice of those perceiving the Evil!!

One of my most amusing adolescent memories from the 60’s was when I was taking my younger brother with me to a Rock Festival and my now deceased mother told me not to let anyone give him one of those “funny cigarettes”

When I informed her I’d been smoking pot for 3 years, her reaction was “Oh my God, where’s my pills”

……Valium!!

Don't forget the evils of caffeine.

Caffeine "Evil".. wash your mouth out with soap Pal..
I need it to start my heart

Coffee!! You can sleep when you're dead!!

Too Right Leah-Ann.. now my thoughts are of Caye Coffee!! whooohoo!!

It brings out that dark passenger in us that likes to post.

BiIl, I always pack my own, Caye Coffee just isn't strong enough for me. I'll make ya a real cup of coffee!

yeah right . . with pumpkin and lord knows what other frou-frou stuff in it!!

nah, that's not coffee - my coffe is good strong french with real half & half - yummy!

The Gallon Jug Belizean Coffee does it for me.
I visiting the plantation on Barry Bowens property and saw how it was grown. It made a believer of me. Growing coffee bean is a lot like grape for wine , the soil ,water and sun make the flavor.
That plantation and his ranch are assume.

Nescafe instant coffee with Carnation and Belize raw sugar please! Kruffee coffee at it's best.

I already knew thats how you would like your coffee.

The Island Perk makes a great French Vanilla Latte. Too bad they don't have decaf!

MMM Nescafe iced coffee having one now.

Perk frape's still top the list though especially now that they have whip.

The whip you say ..ooooogah the whip...Now you have got my attention.

Nescafe? Powdered milk?? Decaf???

really, people, what are you thinking!?!?!?!

i'm thinking McDonalds...the hotter the better

oh wait, thats another post!

pugwash, you are an evil, evil man!

pugwash you should know Burger King has a better cup of coffee mmmm can smell it brewing now

Not much in this thread about evil.

EWP - Evil White Powder

I’ve got a bad feeling about this post, but how can anything bad happen if I just try it once?

Just seeing whose paying attention….

I smoked my first joint in 1967, and my last one ..well what time is it now anyway?

I personally have never encountered any Pot related problems in almost 40 years, but have known several people who are no longer with us due to Heroin or Coke, and I have never ever ever seen any good come from Meth Amphetamine or those who indulge in it: in my humble opinion, the most evil of all of the "recreational" drugs

It is in our nature to chase a “high” in life whether from Chemicals, Natures offerings, Alcohol, Adventure Sports, Religion or anyone of a seeming endless choice of stimulants. Its how we as individuals handle the high that is the variant, and its hard to think in absolute terms…..which “drug” is worse, the gram a day of coke that someone (?) did while holding down a very respectable job for 10 years (the 80s), or the 6 pack of beer some kid drinks before wrecking his car or truck causing death and destroying families? (I’ve never had a wreck or a ticket, much less a DUI)

I do feel very strongly that if we were starting today to write the laws of the land, with what we now know about long term effects, there’s no way alcohol and tobacco would be legal, and that pot would not be?....It would just be Taxed!!!!

I hate drugs; and anyone who compares snorting a line of coke to drinking a couple of beers should have his head examined.

If you take this island as an example, I believe that it is safe to say that we have had very few Belikin related armed robberies and murders.

Cocaine and crack etc. is a curse to humanity and only promoted by greedy people who have no moral or common sense.

Well, bless you all you little pot smokers if you can't help it, but do not ever come to me with your pills, powder and what-not. I will surely help you shove it into one of your body openings, but it won't be your nose, mouth or ears.

I already see what this thread has turned into, but suffice to say that the difference between pot and heroin/coke/meth is that pot is not physically addictive and the others, particularly heroin and other opiates(man-made or synthetic) are. If you are a regular pot smoker (no, I have not smoked pot since the 70's), and quit you might have a headache for a day or 2 that's it. Everyone knows about opiate withdrawal--it can damn near kill you. All those drugs I mentioned in my above statement actually change the receptors in your brain, that is what makes them so dangerous. In the case of meth, it eats holes in your brain which in long-time meth users, even if they have been clean for a while, act like they have dementia and also have tremors etc. Their brain has become like that of a person with early-stage Alzheimers.
Coke-heads just permanently damage their overall CNS, and crack-heads suffer that AND severe lung damage. In fact, I have a client right now who is working with the CDC and is trying to track an unusual disease that is afflicting crack-users in a county one over from ours. Apparently a disease that hasn't been observed in that population before.
Alcohol is similar in the fact that heavy alcoholics experience what is called "wet-brain". Sometimes they never recover, and have mild dementia-like symptoms.
For those of you with loved ones who have suffered from dementia or Alzheimers you know this is no joke.

Dito Weile, and chuckels over the short list of orifices.

there's a fair amount of misinformation floating around here - that's always evil in my book

Well hardly a surprise, but interesting none the less.

One well thought out and considered response, another saying that their drug of choice (beer) is O.K., it’s just all the others that are bad, and yet another “yeh, what he said”

Why is it that any attempt at an actual discussion as to the pros and cons of any issue or subject seems to bring about immediate personal attacks and insults from those with a differing viewpoint?

A review of my previous post will make it obvious to any clear thinking individual that I was posing the issue of the end result of the consumption, not the drug consumed,? I can empathize with someone advocating beer drinking and posting @2.30 am, but do try and grasp the entire concept before commencing hostilities

Alcohol, like meth, which I very clearly derided as evil, (but certainly unlike Pot), does tend to make people aggressive, and in the USA (I don’t have numbers for Belize) more property damage and crimes against persons take place under the influence of Alcohol than under all other drugs combined, so yet again, I question which drug has the worst overall affect on society?

Perhaps everyone reading this could consider for a minute…How many Drug addicts do you know? And how many Alcoholics?

I have double checked my agenda for my next San Pedro trip, and luckily for me, I do not have chasing Weile around with a syringe on my list, so my sphincter should remain intact, but I may have to reconsider the wisdom of a spear fishing trip with White Sands, in case Elbert gets behind me……..

Can we keep this civil?

pug - are you me???

this controversial topic comes up each year or so.

i too agree that no good EVER comes from meth, coke, or heroin.

my friend's husband just got out of 8 days detox for alcohol (i do not drink) and is in rehab. he is a popular and well respected man, with a great but stressful career. big house, nice car, the "perfect family". until the social drinking caught up, he stopped showing up to work, the drinking increased, he beat the $hit out of his lovely wife in front of their kid, then checked himself in. all in 6 weeks time.

but(in my state) if you are holding a doob, you go to jail.

LA, catdance - i agree with you too.

strongly disagree - I've known many who can use coke or meth recreationally on an occassional basis with no interference whatsoever in their lives (unless of course they get arrested). That doesn't address the overall societal impact of contributing to the drug trade - but that's a different topic.

While i tank you for your support sweetjane, in the interest of accuracy, i must point out that I stated "no good Ever came form Meth "

There have been huge contributions to the arts from Heroin users, and Physciatry and modern Philosophy, Movies and TV, and certinly the Music Industry have long and deep ties to cocaine , which without doubt has "casual users"

While no-one seems to have any trouble distinguishing the difference betwenn a couple of beers and chugging grain alcohol from a bottle, the same does not seem to be so when it comes to occasional pot smoking or even a line now and again.

so to recap sweetjane meth,coke heroin all bad..... Leah Ann Meth and coke may be OK in small doses...Me meth very bad always

as i stated in my first post on this subject

Addiction is in the addict, not the substance. Addicts can become addicted to anything they do more than a few times in a short period of time. Some people can not be made into addicts.
Wouldn't it be grand if there were a test you could take at puberty to tell which direction you are pointed in? Addicts do what they do because it makes them feel good . . . until it makes them feel bad. Then it may be too late.
Some people can smoke a tobacco cigarette now and then; most people can’t.
An important part of addiction is the ability to lie to yourself.

Harriette - thank you for those very rational, very correct statements.

The "highest" high I get is when one of my grandkids gives me a hug. You guys can have all the rest of the sh**. JMHO

Yea Harriette, Go Girl!

Hea Rykat , where ya been , missed your face....such as it is

Very well put, Harriette, you got your thoughts across perfectly, without, I suspect alienating anyone.

You must show me how to do that, 'cause I apparently have no clue, having tried several times to make that exact same point!!!

Yes, Harriett, one of the best, logical, and inoffensive posts this board has seen in a while.

See, we can occassionally be rational, polite and understanding.

Thanks for the concise description of addicts and addictions.

I thought I'd pipe in here as the topic header 'the evil of recreational drugs' caught my eye. I've led a rather colourful life, to say the least, and as a result have seen the use of recreational drugs across a great spectrum. The term 'evil' in itself implies something deeply sick and wrong and it is a very emotive term.

There is most definitely 'evil' associated with the production and distribution of drugs across the world. Most of this 'evil' has to do with money and very little to do with the end consumer. The production of drugs, either by legal pharmaceutical companies or through illegal means contributes greatly to war, death and suffering and this all comes down to money. Whether it is Columbian war lords fighting over cocaine distribution, children in the Western world who have been fed ritalin and anti depressants by unscruplous doctors or whole communities dying of AIDS because the price of life saving drugs is too high or drug resistant TB, which is becoming more and more resistant through difficulties caused by access to necessary treatment, there most certainly is an aura of evil over the whole 'drug' industry.

I have had friends who have lived long and successful lives alongside heroin addiction; I have had friends who have tried crack, totally uprepared for their inabilty to make sensible judgements while under the influence; I have had friends who have caught HIV through needle use, unsafe sex (which resulted from a lack of inhibition brought on by drug use); I have had friends who have done the most wonderful art and music under the influence of a whole gamut of illegal substances; I have had friends who have made their pain better through the use of marijuana enabling them to live a much more productive life than they could have done otherwise; I have seen people have great spiritual experiences and changing their lives for the better after taking LSD; I have had relatives who have killed themselves with alcohol; I have had friends who have been driven into institutions through the use of prescribed drugs; I have seen people commit suicide under the influence of alcohol; I have worked with people who are dying of emphysema and insist on smoking til their last breath; I have had friends who have overcome an addiction to cocaine only to be run down and killed by a drunk driver. I don't need to go on.

With all of this in mind, I think it is important to educate people about drugs, their effects and the global implications of their use. All drugs. We all make choices and the more informed they are the better. In the meantime, never forget that the drug of your choice, be it alcohol, nicotine, marijuana, cocaine, crack, prozac, viagra, oxycontin, cough syrup - whatever ...when you pay for it, some evil guy somewhere is making a profit.

Ultimately nothing will ever stop people from pleasure seeking and personally I think that is a good thing.

Amanda, it would have seemed so much more polite absent your "occassional" dig.

I find this board to be inoffensive, rational and polite the vast majority of the time. It's just not worth it to look so hard to be offended. Lighten up!

Oh, and Collyk, your comments were mine, only much better and more thoroughly presented.

chocolates are en route!

Chocolate...that my drug of choice....

Hey Elbert!!!!!!!!!! missed your face too. Too many kiddies, too little time, could use a few 48 hour days to get caught up.

LA...available for chocolate deliveries also!!!???!!!any kind, stuffed with (almost) any thing!

Here is what I'd like to know. Is the Meth talked about here the same type Meth prescribed extensively during the 40's and 50's and even today?

ScubLdy is absolutely right. Addiction is the problem no matter the substance/action. One of the saddest things I ever saw was a documentary on sex addicts. Yeah, laugh laugh--right? Wrong! Those people were truly pathetic and due to society's attitude towards sex (more more more!!!) people dont' take an addiction like that seriously. The sex addicts were jeopardizing their lives and the lives of others not to mention constantly reinforcing feelings of worthlessness. It was truly sad.
In my previous post I only put forth the biological mechanism of introducing substances like heroin/meth/coke/alcohol into the body, nothing more.

PS Colly--well put!!!

Here’s an idea; let’s kill two birds with one stone:
1) decrimalize (or legalize) marijuana
2) Increase tourism

How’s that to come about you may ask? Well, if all of you would get honest about your recreational use of ganja and get the laws changed then pot heads would flock to the island. As the native American were reported to have said “White man speaks with forked tongue.”

Of course it would have to be country wide so we may loose some business to the mainland but what the heck! Our neighboring island may worry about loosing a lot of business to us.

We all know that pot heads are not dangerous; just lazy and boring; but then so are drunks. And if they come with enough money then who cares? We would have to make sure the police enforce the vagrancy laws but that would be easier than enforcing the drug laws. Maybe we would need to say that you could not have ganja and a gun (or knife or machete) at the same time – after all paranoia is a common side effect.

Ganja is no more a gateway drug than is alcohol or tobacco. Do you think this new availability might cut into the Beliken business?

Just think – we could become the Amsterdam of the Caribbean.

(Now I’ll see if I can get my tongue out of my cheek.)

Its not your tounge in your cheek you'll have to worry about if weile gets his way, it will be something altogether more painful!

I think Weile blessed the pot smokers.

only the little ones, which obviously excludes me!

ScubaLdy sez: "We all know that pot heads are not dangerous; just lazy and boring;"
HAHAHAHAHAA!!! True, dat!!!

Unless of course they are driving a bulldozer around town.