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#265509 - 02/01/08 09:12 AM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: ]
bywarren Offline
Before work became a four-letter word for me, I was involved in developing 230 acres of land in rural Arkansas. There were 70 lots that were developed for sale on the 230 acres. These were all “upscale” properties as evidenced not only by the size of each lot but also due to being lake property.
As the developer I had to build two and one half miles of hard surface road, install underground phone and electric lines, water lines and fire hydrants all to connect to the nearest existing government or utility service.
Once the development was completed the county took over ownership and maintenance of the roads and the water, electric and phone companies maintained their services.
The costs providing these on going services came from the rates charged by the phone, electric and water providers and property taxes paid for the maintenance of the roads.

Draw whatever comparisons you want, but Belize, and especially Ambergris Caye, must find ways to develop in a more controlled and planed way and tax in a way that provides the services government is responsible for.

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#265552 - 02/01/08 11:48 AM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: bywarren]
pugwash Offline
Very concise: Developer pays for extension of services to the development, and then property taxes help sustain the service....
_________________________
It's rarely rocket science, it's usually just math: then again if you can't do the math.......

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#267514 - 02/12/08 11:50 AM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: sunandsand]
sunandsand Offline
Just a quick note, now that I'm here in San pedro, and I've spoken to some about the project, I am not as concerned about it as I was. It is an opportunity to provide a lot of people with jobs, bring in money to the island, which it badly needs, and also allows some who otherwise couldn't live the dream to have a piece of paradise to call their own.
I remove myself from this subject from this point on, since I care about my friends, and I consider Jeff to be among them, and I hope everyone else who feels the need to do a little Jeff bashing will consider his contributions to the island before you treat him with such contempt. He's a good guy, and I'm proud to know him.
_________________________
At what age is it determined I am old enough to know better?

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#267542 - 02/12/08 01:07 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: sunandsand]
ERT Offline
Are you seriously suggesting that your opinion of a development will be determined on the basis of your friendships?
Do you think official approvals and permits should be given on the same basis?
Development on Ambergris Caye is not a personal matter. If we reduce decisions on such matters to a popularity contest, God help us. I think we've already had enough decision-making based on personal ties rather than analyis, foresight and integrity.
No one I know of opposes South Beach on the basis of "Jeff's not a nice guy" or "Jeff hasn't done anything for the community." His personality and community service are not relevant to this issue.

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#267577 - 02/12/08 03:29 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: ERT]
Belize-N-Us Offline
ERT, do you live in a mangrove swamp? Do you own land, a house, rent on the island? If so is your land, house, appartment in a mangrove swamp?

I dare say that most of AC was mangrove not too long ago. Now that many people are already there with their piece of tropical paradise which is cleared of it's mangrove all the sudden it's not politically correct to clear mangrove and develop land.

Seems to me that a lot of anti-development posts are hypocrital. You got yours but now you don't want anyone else to get theirs seems to be a common theme here.

Currently a woman has to fly to Belize City to deliver her baby if she needs a c-section due to lack of facilities on the island which averages a baby delivery per day and is home to some 18,000 people.

Wings burned through the night due to lack of adequate fire response/equipment.

Anyone severely injured or ill on the island must be flown to Belize City for care, maybe they won't die waiting on or being transferred. Maybe that person won't be YOU.

Why should progress / development be viewed as negative? More hotels, condos, houses = more tourists = more jobs = more $ = better benefits for the community.

Growth is coming to AC. You can embrace it and benefit from it. You can run away from it. You can sit around and complain about it. But you cannot stop it.
_________________________
Future full time Belizeans
Tommy & Sonia Blackledge
Magee, MS 601-849-1918

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#267580 - 02/12/08 03:49 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: Belize-N-Us]
sunandsand Offline
I knew this would get a rise out of some. Let me tell you how it is, here, with the people I have talked to. I am currently in San Pedro, and have had the opportunity to speak with some, not a lot, mind you, but some who know of this project.
Some of these residents need work, and this project will provide that work, so they can take care of their families. It is difficult to put ourselves in this situation if you have never been there.
I agree that the mangrove destruction is not a good thing, but now I am thinking of it as collateral damages, something that will unfortunately have to happen in order to make the rest of this a reality.
The project will bring an awful lot of money to the island, and hopefully will be used wisely, but that isn't our place to determine. Hopefully, medical facilities, better roads, improved schools will all benefit from this
We are bringing our American or European ideas to a place that is finally getting it's piece of the action. We are imposing our views, our ideals, on a population that isn't where we are, yet, and have no idea what is around the bend. We are maybe a bit more environmentally friendly, but if it was a choice of feeding your family, or tearing up some mangroves, which would you choose.
BelizeNus has the right idea about this. I wish it was so that nothing had to suffer in order for this project to be completed, but again, collateral damage is a given.
Now, on the other side, I have watched the lagoon behind Reef Village flourish. The fear of the wildlife being run away was unjustified. Yesterday, I walked back to the back of the project, and saw all kinds of wildlife, and the amazing thing is they watched me without flying or running off. They are comfortable, apparently feel safe, and are a great joy to watch. Who would have thought that was going to happen two or three years ago? Everyone was so worried about them, but they survived, and are living in harmony with their surroundings.
I hope I have shed a little light on this, but if not, that's OK, too. I just know that we don't have the right to force our opinions on others, no matter what the subject. I feel OK with this project, now, and withdraw from the battle. Think what you want, do what you need to do.
_________________________
At what age is it determined I am old enough to know better?

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#267592 - 02/12/08 04:55 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: Belize-N-Us]
ERT Offline
I am by no means opposed to the further growth and development of Ambergris Caye and have no desire to “run away” from them. What I support is the intelligent MANAGEMENT of growth and development.
--Managed growth does NOT mean no updated medical facilities, no adequate firefighting infrastructure, never cutting a mangrove or refusing to build another hotel. It does NOT mean telling people they can’t get their shares of paradise because I have mine, nor does it mean an end to employment on the island.
--Managed growth DOES mean planning, thinking ahead, making sure paradise survives to be enjoyed by anyone. It means considering the quality of life here, including encouragement of prosperity and employment (which means taking into account the jobs sustained in the long term more than those created in the short term).
--For example, managed growth involves ensuring adequate infrastructure BEFORE new construction -- planning for garbage disposal, water and sewerage services, firefighting, traffic management, adequate classrooms, and other needs of a growing population.
--Managed growth involves setting aside space for FUTURE needs, such as for construction of a medical facility, a vocational school or satellite police stations. It means planning for housing for new workers and their families.
--Managed growth involves balancing growth and development with preserving and conserving some of what makes this paradise and gives this island a tourism industry. If we kill off the reef, take away the habitats for birds, etc., etc., then it won’t matter what kind of employment levels we’d like to have.
--In other words, managed growth allows paving a bit of paradise, but it doesn’t allow paving the whole thing. Managed growth involves planning for the whole so that no one piece puts the whole in jeopardy.
--For example, South Beach strikes me as an example of a piece that can damage the whole. No matter how desirable it might be otherwise, I am hearing South Beach will negatively affect Hol Chan, which I understand gets more visitors than any other place in Belize. Hol Chan provides a lot of employment to Ambergris Caye. I am no scientist and I don’t know what the environmental assessment for South Beach shows or even where to get a copy, but it is obviously treading on fragile territory. South Beach needs to be viewed in the context of the big picture.

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#267593 - 02/12/08 05:41 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: ERT]
reaper Offline
The problem with "managed" development in AC is that the developers build, and build, which brings more outside workers to the island. They bring their families to the already overcrowded schools. They use the already impacted medical resources. The developments bring more residents. The streets built for a few fishermen get bottlenecked. The trash needs somewhere to go, so does the sewage. The power goes out regularly. The Police Department doesn't expand, nor does the Fire Department. The construction vehicles kill the streets, and clog them. The schools get zero new funding. If it weren't for the generosity of so many visitors and residents, many school aged children would be on the streets or beach all day instead of the classroom.
The island needs to come to terms with what it wants to become. For many it will be a horrible place to vacation if these mega resorts get built. For others it will be great. The only thing I know for sure is that the island is already 10 years and millions of dollars behind in infastructure for it's current condition. And don't be fooled in to thinking that new development tax dollars will bring the relief that is needed.
We have had "managed" development here in Southern California for years. Come on out and drive me to work one morning and see how that has worked out for us here...

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#267594 - 02/12/08 05:57 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: reaper]
ERT Offline
What you are describing is UNMANAGED DEVELOPMENT. I agree with you completely on the problems you point out.

I guess I wasn’t clear because a continuation of the current chaos is what I would like to stop. Call it what you will—we need a MASTER PLAN.

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#267602 - 02/12/08 06:40 PM Re: South Beach Belize - monster development [Re: ERT]
reaper Offline
There is a master plan for the island.

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