Is it Mexico that doesn't want the connection Cancun/San Pedro/even BZE or Belize?

"Cancun is 200 nautical miles from San Pedro, a relatively long distance that would require a specialized high speed commuter airliner."

I am a little confused regarding this statement. The cruise speed of a Cessna Caravan is 210 knots. Making the Cancun – San Pedro air time 57 minutes. The range of a Caravan is approximately 950 nautical miles although this range would dramatically reduce the payload of the aircraft; from 3200 pounds to 1500 pounds. If you were to use a Caravan to fly Cancun too San Pedro and fueled the aircraft for 300 nautical miles the payload would be 2700 pounds (this includes a 45 minute fuel reserve which is mandatory). Because of the lower payload you would have to restrict the aircraft to 11 people instead of 14. Other than the reduction of payload I cannot see the reason a Caravan could not be used for this connection.

Maybe there is something else I am not aware of.

Engine: P&W PT6A-114 75% Cruise: 184 kts Wingspan: 51.67 ft
Horsepower: 600 shp Stall: 60 kts Length: 37.58 ft
Rec'd TBO: 3600 hrs Height: 14.17 ft
Svr Ceiling: 30000 ft Empty Wt: 3765 lbs
Rate of Climb: 1215 ft/min Gross Wt: 7300 lbs
Max Fuel: 335 gal
Takeoff (over 50 ft obstacle): 1665 ft
Landing (over 50 ft obstacle): 1550 ft
Takeoff: 970 ft
Landing: 645 ft
URL: http://www.cessna.com
Telephone: 800-423-7762


CESSNA 208 CARAVAN 675
Engine: P&W PT6A-114A 75% Cruise: 186 kts Wingspan: 52.08 ft
Horsepower: 675 shp Stall: 61 kts Length: 41.58 ft
Rec'd TBO: 3600 hrs Range: 1163 nm Height: 14.83 ft
Svr Ceiling: 25000 ft Empty Wt: 4535 lbs
Rate of Climb: 1115 ft/min Gross Wt: 8750 lbs
Max Fuel: 335 gal Single Eng ROC: 770 ft/min
Takeoff (over 50 ft obstacle): 2840 ft
Landing (over 50 ft obstacle): 1740 ft
Takeoff: 1575 ft
Landing: 915 ft

Your cruise speed is high. But your point is valid. A caravan could be used for this.

The problem is, the president of Tropic basically said he wasn't interested, so this issue is prob dead. If Tropic or Myan aren't interested in the Cancun route then I dought any of us will get far with a gov approval request. What's the point if the two main Belize air companies don't want the option?

"The problem is, the president of Tropic basically said he wasn't interested"

Don't know where you're getting that from, I've had conversations with Johnny about this in the past and it was something they wanted to do but it couldn't be worked out.

1. It is unlikely that there will ever be direct international flights to or from San Pedro except from very close destinations. The primary reason is the length of the runway. Cancun is 200 nautical miles from San Pedro, a relatively long distance that would require a specialized high speed commuter airliner. Since such an aircraft would necessarily be a twin engine, commercial twin engine aircraft are required to reach flying speed and lose an engine and either get airborne or come to a complete stop in a certain distance. This is called the "balance field length". San Pedro is 3000 ft long which is more than enough for anything from a twin otter (which is a short landing and take off aircraft) or any of the aircraft that take off here, but would be way too short for any of the afore mentioned high speed commercial twins. The existing ramp space is also limiting . And finally, it makes more sense for a small government to concentrate all its international flights through one airport for commercial and security reasons.

2. The category 1 or category 2 (compliant or non-compliant) ratings are issued by the American FAA and rate the countries ability to provide oversight. They do not rate the airlines nor do they care about flights that do not touch the United States. Any of the Belizean airlines could fly to Mexico by simply negotiating this right with the Mexicans.

3. Jet fuel storage is not an issue. It is essentially the same as diesel which is stored and dispensed in San Pedro with no problem. Once again space would be an issue with the airstrip.

4. The local airlines depart to the SW because in the event of an engine failure there are better emergency landing sites. It also lessens the noise pollution over the center of town.

5. Finally, Tropic and Maya's permission to fly into Guatemala was suspended by their former director of civil aviation for political and personal reasons. Tropic Air was recently approached by the new director to begin flights again. Once again, Belize's American non compliant oversite rating had nothing to do with the suspension of this service.

John E Greif III
President
Tropic Air


My transalation of this....not really interested. If my impression is wrong then let's get some support rallied and get this done.

The part that really leads me to believe there's no interest is the statement about a small gov needing to direct all international flights to one spot for security ect. Again, the Bahamas is a small gov with numerous airports of enrty spread out over numerous islands all accepting international arrivals. So I don't think the small gov excuse is very valid, nor is security a major issue.

Also the comment about needing twin eng. planes. The planes they have are capable of this route.

A boat can arrive direct to San Pedro from the US or Mexico, why can't a plane?

General Information
Flying in The Bahamas is truly simple and well within the capabilities of the lightest single-engine aircraft. Leaving the east coast of Florida, first landfall occurs at Grand Bahama Island (60nm) or Bimini (50nm). While conditions are typically VFR, GPS is the most reliable and accurate method of navigation, and GPS will get you to even the most remote of our islands.

Nassau, New Providence Island and Freeport, Grand Bahama Island are the major population centers. Flight operations are conducted within the equivalent of a U.S. TCA with radar coverage. There are approach control, tower and ground frequencies. Nassau and Freeport both offer Flight Service facilities. Nassau is the seat of Government, the hub of commerce and the busiest airport with the most airline traffic.

The other 58 airports in The Bahamas are uncontrolled and use standard procedures. All pilots monitor Common Traffic Advisory Frequency, CTAF 122.8, advising position and intentions. Left traffic patterns are used, pattern altitude is 1,000’ AGL. Outbound traffic announces before occupying runways (there are no taxiways except at Nassau and Freeport) and depart straight out or turn left, climbing above pattern altitude as soon as possible.

VFR night flying is prohibited in The Bahamas, during official sunset to sunrise. Controlled airspace requires VFR minimums of 1,500’ and 3 miles clear of clouds. The VFR minimums for uncontrolled airspace differ from the U.S. requirements of 1.000’ and one mile clear of clouds and in sight of land or water.

Mandatory Requirements
You must file a U.S. International Flight Plan before departing the U.S. and your first point of arrival in The Bahamas must be at an Airport of Entry (AOE).

Each person aboard the aircraft must have a valid passport.

Return to the U.S. requires an International Flight Plan filed to the most convenient U.S. Airport of Entry. You may advise U.S. Customs and Border Protection of arrival ETA by including the word ADCUS (Advise Customs) on your Flight Plan. In addition, you must call U.S. Customs and Border Protection and give at least one-hour notice prior to arrival.

All airplanes must have a transponder, 12" registration numbers on the plane, and one U.S. Coast Guard approved life jacket for each person. Life rafts are suggested but not required.

11 PAX = $375+usd RT per person to cover employees, taxes, landing fees, insurance, fuel and maintenance.

The Mexican Government really wants their tourists flying to Cancun on a cheap flight from North America and then moving on down to Belize with their vacation dollars.

Reaper you lost me???????????

A Caravan flight would be very expensive with just 11 passengers from Cancun. And the last thing the Mexican Gov. wants is for tourists to leave Mexico to spend $$$ in Belize.
I have many friends that have done aviation business in Mexico. In their words, "It ain't easy!". Most moved on to other locations.

MX heavily subsidizes the international air travel to lower fares and therefore encourage travel. Reaper is wondering why MX would subsidize arrivals if the $ continued on south to be spent in BZ.