Who else thought that this week's 'Donde Esta Debbie' Article was in very poor taste?

This week Debbie went to enjoy the crocodile feeding and even got her photo taken sitting on top of a croc. Not only does this article condone this behavior, it is encouraging it!

Regardless of what Debbie thinks, it is still ILLEGAL! They should be fined just on the photo alone.

Jzb I read the above and looked at the picture ..My thoughts where #1 She has to be stupidest reporter if thats whats she does to eke out a living ,#2 she is encouraging people to join her stupidity and she might get some kid Or person killed.#3 the editor should have a least looked this craziness over before this went to press so he must be also out of touch with reality or ALSO out of his mind .#4 Yes the island needs things to bring in tourists but not with this . #5 I hope nobody in the outside world sees this paper as the voice and reason of Ambergriscaye And the good citizens here think this is aceptable and good for the island .#5 I did like and enjoy the paper,but today they went over the line And made a big mistake!!!!!!! As they just let this very stupid lady represent them as there spokesperson for bad [JOURNALISM ]???? #6 YES SHAME ON YOU,AT LEAST HAVE THE SENSE TO APOLOGIZE FOR HER STUPIDITY.AND SAY WE ARE SORRY FOR THIS POOR THOUGHT OUT STORY AND IT'S DEADLY RAMIFICATIONS ..

An actual quote from the article says 'Contrary to other reports, I did not see any of these crocodiles being abused!' Meanwhile, she is sitting on one! Plus other stoooopid comments.
Was the editor on vacation this week???

They should seriously be punished in some form of a fine or mandatory retraction. Additionally, I know of more than a handful of hotels who tell their guests about this and even go so far as to provide chickens for the feedings. It's absolute craziness that people put their faith in a bunch of 13 year olds but they do. They get caught up in the whole "when in Rome" thing. Nuts.

Donde Esta Debbie's leg?

I love how they mention "Shark Ray alley" as well. As a local dive instructor once told me;

"People wonder why they get bitten by animals sometimes when snorkeling or diving. 9 times out of 10 they are doing something they shouldn't be doing, which is usually riding, touching or chasing them. Ask yourself this - if you were walking down the street and some tourist jumped on YOUR back, what would you do?"

They really need to get a handle on all of the craziness that goes on with regards to this kind of stuff. All it takes is one CNN report and years of reputation building are down the drain.

Anyone else notice the ad for medical service NEXT to the article, lol.

I heard about it well in advance but couldn't believe that they would print the article. Whether or not they think it's cute or not it's still AGAINST THE LAW. There's a reason they are a protected species, they should have done some research before they printed the article..

Ive done a few stupid things in my life but that aint one of them !

Well lets just tar and feather her this young 24 year old single mother then! Give the young girl a break people. Folks make mistakes and we all have done and will do stupid things (like swim in chummed water at Shark Ray Alley and the Blue Hole supporting the feeding of wild animals). Too bad this one is in print. At least her and her family and the newspaper's family are from here and have made huge contributions to the tourism product on Ambergris Caye. This doesn't make it right but should put it into perspective.

I thought that was just photo shop...that can't be a real picture sitting on a croc.

My word! I hadn't heard of this, but it really is crazy! And as it's also illegal and we all agree the croc baiting should stop, can we ensure that all people involved are personally prosecuted and the newspaper similarly? If that doesn't happen then we've lost the battle to stop it, and that'll have to wait until there's a tragedy.

Do the police require a formal referral from a member of the public before they can act? If so, can someone bring a copy of the paper this evening? There'll be enough people there to make a formal complaint.

Come on Chris, "made a mistake"? Sitting on a crocodile? There were enough people involved in this photoshoot and article that someone must have known that it was illegal. In any case, a newspaper owes a duty of care to the community, and this was utterly irresponsible - as must have been apparent to the people who perpetrated it.

Obviously I don't advocate disproportionate punishment, but SOMETHING should happen. Even if she's given a conditional discharge, told not to do it again, that would get the message over. Or even just a Police Caution, with no Court action. Doing NOTHING also gets a message over, and it's one that most of us don't want to convey.

This is gonna be an interesting meeting!

Was just brainstorming....How about solving the crime issue on the island with feeding the criminals that get caught steeling or robbing, feeding them to the crocs. The crocs will be well fed and the island will be a very happy place again...win win situation for everybody, except the criminal...

I've made huge "mistakes" in my life, even well after 24. And I've been punished for them, as have my superiors. I absolutely cringe when I hear about how we should lay off people when they have entrenched duties in protecting and promoting tourism. And protecting tourism means protecting TOURISTS. I'm going to have the biggest headache when, in a few years time, we start re-debating this after a tourist loses their hand. But that seems to be how we humans and policy-makers ever progress. By learning the hard way.

Chris, that's ridiculous. If it's dangerous and illegal, don't put it in the paper like it's a tourist attraction. It makes it worse that she's a local who should know better, and the paper ought to know that is dangerous and illegal. I don't think she should be beaten and imprisioned, but it's still a stupid thing to put on the front page. When soneone gets bitten, the paper has some responsibility for it. Jeez.

.

Post subsequently deleted by Ambergris Today:-
"If everybody is so ready to shame Ambergris Today, well why don’t we shame all those people who take visitors to Shark Ray Ally? It’s the same thing! Having people interact with wild animals. Clearly many of you speak too fast before reading carefully. We all know that this feeding of crocodiles takes place on a daily basis and many people are carrying tourist to this place. I guess shame on all of them too! And I bet most of you who have commented on this message board have one time or another stood by the pond to watch the crocodile being fed. This means that you have contributed to the act and condone the action. We never invited anyone to go feed the crocodiles and never said it was a tourist attraction. We have always warned people of the dangers of feeding these creatures and Debbie took a picture with the crocodile on her own free will. The article quotes – “It is true that these crocodiles are wild animals and the guys that are feeding them make sure that they warn everybody of the dangers of feeding them up close and even touching them. It is made clear to everybody that they are there at their own risk.” Our intention was, that if this practice is still being conducted, that a much safer environment be constructed so that these animals are not hurt and to remove any danger to humans. And the Town Council agreed that the area needs to be safer for people to view these creatures. Aren’t there crocodile farms and zoos all over the Everglades in Florida and other parts of the world? If you take it another way - Mission accomplished! We have given much attention to the situation to have the proper authorities either shut down the operation or create a proper environment for this to continue. Many of you are too eager to crucify people when most of the time you turn a blind eye on things that you are afraid to comment about. Then when somebody else has the courage to do or comment on something you crucify them. If you did not condone the act of feeding the crocodiles, then why did you not say anything before?"

Me(!):-
I'm sorry, I "tuned back" to this thread when I saw that the newspaper was replying. How disappointing that instead of apologising for an error in judgement they have seen fit to try to defend their actions. They seem to think that having those pictures (especially) and the article on the front page of their paper is no great deal. I now really hope that the full force of the law is thrown at them.

Trying to justify it doesn't make it right. YOU printed the picture for all to see. And comparing snorkeling to feeding the crock is lame.

I got nuked, again

Me too! My first time. But I can't find the shirt on cafepress.com.

There are countless threads condemming the feeding of crocs and by far the majority of us have spoken out against it AND refuse to support it by not attending the feedings.

Wut she said. There, take that .

Unbelievable

The speed of a Croc is lightening fast and the size of those crocs indicates that there is going to be a serious incident if this is not stopped.

I have seen multiple attacks on handlers that have handled crocs for years and years and are way more educated in handling than 13 year olds.

one lost his arm
one lost his hand
and the other one lost his life

It looks like it will take a serious incident before this is taken seriously which is a real shame.

The paper used a sensational story to sell newspapers times must be hard for them but at least now the evidence is there to see and hopefully after the police have taken action as it is a serious issue they will change there tune and apologise.

TO AMBERGRIS TODAY
NO- I have never and never will go watch a crocodile feed.
The Dive shop I go with does not feed the animals.
HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THAT WE ALL DO.

Since Ambergris Today removed their ridiculous response, I'll post it:
-----------------------------------------------------------
If everybody is so ready to shame Ambergris Today, well why don’t we shame all those people who take visitors to Shark Ray Ally? It’s the same thing! Having people interact with wild animals. Clearly many of you speak too fast before reading carefully. We all know that this feeding of crocodiles takes place on a daily basis and many people are carrying tourist to this place. I guess shame on all of them too! And I bet most of you who have commented on this message board have one time or another stood by the pond to watch the crocodile being fed. This means that you have contributed to the act and condone the action. We never invited anyone to go feed the crocodiles and never said it was a tourist attraction. We have always warned people of the dangers of feeding these creatures and Debbie took a picture with the crocodile on her own free will. The article quotes – “It is true that these crocodiles are wild animals and the guys that are feeding them make sure that they warn everybody of the dangers of feeding them up close and even touching them. It is made clear to everybody that they are there at their own risk.” Our intention was, that if this practice is still being conducted, that a much safer environment be constructed so that these animals are not hurt and to remove any danger to humans. And the Town Council agreed that the area needs to be safer for people to view these creatures. Aren’t there crocodile farms and zoos all over the Everglades in Florida and other parts of the world? If you take it another way - Mission accomplished! We have given much attention to the situation to have the proper authorities either shut down the operation or create a proper environment for this to continue. Many of you are too eager to crucify people when most of the time you turn a blind eye on things that you are afraid to comment about. Then when somebody else has the courage to do or comment on something you crucify them. If you did not condone the act of feeding the crocodiles, then why did you not say anything before?

Dorian

p.s. there are many other irresponsible things that people do and everybody accepts it.

Thanks Dutch, shows were their back bone is.

Dorian,

Unfortunately your article does not come across that way and comes across a promotion of the activity. Nowhere in the article does it say that it should be shut down until an appropriate facility has been put in place.

I've been quietly pushing for a regulated environment for a long time through letters to forestry and town council and on this site. Having a regulated site would be a great addition to the town but the situation as it is a tragedy waiting to happen.

What happens now with this article, I'm betting that much greater numbers of tourists are going to head down to see this ILLEGAL ACTIVITY and it's just a matter of time before one of those Crocs whips it's head around and kills someone.

I spent 3 years in the Orange Walk District assisting with researchers from Texas Tech and I know firsthand what a split second of inattention can result in, even from a small Croc. Whether they look tame or not they are instinctive animals and are completely unpredictable, they can move at speeds up to 35mph over short bursts and you wouldn't believe the speed of their jaws when they bite. I've seen Croc's grab jumping fish out of the air in the blink of an eye.

If you wanted to do an expose it should have been on how we can build a safe facility for tourists to view the animals in their environment without interference. A Disney sideshow is not appropriate.

The comments about Shark Ray are not relevant, there is too much of "well they did it so I can" already, you only have to look at the actions of some developers recently to see that in action. It’s time to grow up and get over that mentality and start working towards a better future.

Simon...

"If you did not condone the act of feeding the crocodiles, then why did you not say anything before?"

I have, the board has.

My pleasure IM. That is what they sent to my personal email as a response to my complaint. More than one way to skin a cat...but please don't skin a cat...I like cats. The press has a responsibility, and that was completely ignored in this case. I really hope that some type of fine can be levied against them for this. They can't undo the picture that proves harassment of a protected species.

I just emailed this newspaper; I think anyone else concerned should do so too! I personally am tired of watching this circus show! It occurs most evenings around sunset, south of the Fido's Sandbar. Some nights, there are as many as 7 or 8 golf carts with tourists standing around watching this. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Okay, in fairness, I reposted the response they made, then deleted. That was cowardly, so I posted it again. I also received another response to my angry response to their mindless response, which I post here. I personally feel a little better about them now. From the Ambergris Today paper:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the only mistake that I did was not being 100% clear of the intention of the article. In the past i have published countless articles with the dangers of feeding the crocodiles and warned people about doing so and that is why i published this one. To trying to talk to the Town Council to either stop it or create a safer environment to feed these animals, because i see so many tourist going there and endangering themselves. I admit that i did not make this point strong enough, but i surely have in the past. Because weather or not we agree to it, it is still going on. I have never gone to feed these animals and probably should not have taken those pictures (I agree to that), but it seems that it was the only way that I could draw attention to the matter. I agree that feeding these animals is dangerous and should not be done. BUT IT IS BEING DONE! And I wanted to do just that, have the proper authorities create a safer environment, because it is being done.

Dorian Nunez
Ambergris Today

Neecee has obviously only seen the "slow night" shows. Because I have seen 50 - 100 people sometimes.

The croc pond is on my way home. I try to go by quickly and directly. I DO NOT want to be there when something awful happens to somebody. And it is not a case of IF it is a case of WHEN.

If the paper was not trying to encourage this activity why is the last line of the story "when you snap your crocodile shots make sure you tell the guys that Debbie sent you!"

look these crocs have been feed for years and years, without any incidents, that tells me that the odds are something bad is going to happen soon, although i think its crazy for people to do this, THEY STILL DO, even though its illegal, govt can pass all the laws they want but if the don't regulate them then they are merely letters on paper,I'm glad Dorian published the article hopefully it gets the attention of the right people, and the right things get done.people always look for the negative in things
ps: theres only so many places debbie could be....lol

Amanda; you're so right! I too, go by on my way home most nights. As you said, and are absolutely right; there have been huge crowds there! I have never stopped; it's all I can do to drive by! These animals are enormous and seeing a local waving raw chicken in front of them from a fishing pole, is beyond stupid!

I have a good suggestion for Ambergris Today's next week's article: 'Donde Esta Debbie' (since she broke the law this week) --> '¡en el prisión!'. Dumb, dumb, dumb, Ambergris Today! Don't make it worse and please apologise!

Touche Short!

Great here we have three kids that have been entertaing the tourists for the last 10 years and now you lot are bitching-lets see go and stand outside Big Daddy's and complain about the drug dealing the knifings etc. they will move you on very quickly-complain about the burglaries/stand outside the police station and complain about crooked cops-give up your friend for smoking dope-go against crooked politicians-people with no work permits

So because there are worse illegal things going on, we should not care about less illegal stuff?
What this or something worse happens on Ambergris Caye? Should we then also say that Debbie sent us?

Ironically, The San Pedro Sun has been working very closely with biologist and executive director Cherie Chenot-Rose from ACES/ American Crocodile Endangered Sanctuary in Toledo along with Belize Forest Service's Wildlife Officer Mr. Lopez to come to San Pedro to better educate the community on just these issues. We have scheduled a presentation at the Lion's Den on Tuesday night at 7pm and they are to appear on the Reef Radio morning show Wed. AM. Please take a look at the flyer which Marty posted under the "Nature" category.
http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post288158

Shame on Ambergris Today????
come on you guys, you should be ashamed on calling people stupid. I don't think anybody should be called stupid or should be insulted, it is very rude....
If someone makes a mistake or does something wrong in your point of view, it is ok for you guys to talk about it but don't insult them, what are u getting out of it by insulting. We all should work together as a team and not by handling it this way. Thats why there is too much crime in Belize since everything is handled in a negative manner. Be nice and lets work together as a team.

Perhaps we should ask Tropic to put Crocks in their new tank instead of fish?

Throw in a Chicken before each flight leaves?

or a live Chicken, and numbered squares so we can all bet on where it "drops".......

A little something for everyone

"In the past i have published countless articles with the dangers of feeding the crocodiles and warned people about doing so and that is why i published this one."

I will give you that and it's also one of the reasons that this article bothered me so much. When I heard about the pictures I expected that you would not print the article. I was very disappointed when the pictures were printed.

I can only hope that an article will appear in next week's edition clearly stating your intentions. Those ponds will be gone in short time but there is an excellent opportunity to create a nature walk/reserve in the settling ponds. There is significant wildlife in that area that tourists rarely get to see and will both create jobs and enhance the community.

Maybe we should ask tropic to put "Pugwash" on the tank and fill it with water so you can stop talking non sense.

Interesting concept, how about it Pugwash?

Hey Aligator - a little voice of reason. This should not be a witch hunt. We are all on the same team here. Lapse of judgement are made often. It is those voices that are brave enough to stand up and be counted that often fall victim to the many that usually sit in shadows waiting for somebody to pick on.

Whether the Ambergris Today simply wanted to shed light on a seriously dangerous issue, or if the team thought it would enliven the weekend gossip - they have met their goal!

And Pedro1 - you bet that there are many other very serious crimes going on in this town. And all of them need to be addressed - sooner than later.

And WOW about the Caye Caulker croc bite incident.

I often wonder when this will happen to an unsuspecting tourist. At the San Pedro crocodile lake there is a spit of sand where many people stand to look at the croc feeding show - not realizing that there are crocs in the body of water behind them as well as in front of them. I saw a lady yesterday with her child on her hip standing about 60 ft from the lake. Like 60 ft of distance is going to help if the croc decides to launch itself at her.

My daughter did a school project on the crocs recently. They can propel out of the water at 48 mph and they can run short bursts at around 35 mph!!


This is yet another high profile emotionally charged dilemma this growing town is facing.

Hey Aligator (in English your name is spelled Alligator BTW), I just read all 42 responses on this threat very carefully, and there is only one that calls Debbie a stupid reporter - there are more that say they did something stupid which is not insulting IMO. Although your words are very wise, you should read more carefully.

who tells you my name is in English......you see negative response. You all are condeming this girl and the newspaper. Its not fair for you all to be talking this way. Read it all again and see how offensive the responses have been. Anyways...My point is lets work together as a team.

Hey Short - You don't think this is insulting ... You posted it - "I have a good suggestion for Ambergris Today's next week's article: 'Donde Esta Debbie' (since she broke the law this week) --> '¡en el prisión!'. Dumb, dumb, dumb, Ambergris Today!

Dorian Nunez
Ambergris Today

Saying "Well they do it at Shark Ray" is like a kid saying "Well everybody else does it". My mother's response would have been to asked if Little Johnny jumped off a cliff would you jump off the cliff too?

It sounded very much like you were trying to waddle out of getting caught.

While we were on AC we drove by the swamp hoping to see a gator. We did but we didn't get out of the car or even stop.

When we were in the Everglades we took a air boat ride. We saw gators there also. We didn't feed them and the guide said he discouraged anyone from doing it at other times.

The property that I reside has plenty of Crocks. They can be much apprechiated from afar. Having seen a Crock attack a dog in the canal, I know their power and speed...and will never underestimate their amazing nature. Both San Pedro newpapers exploited the death by Crock(?) of my friend, the late Wilbur Blanco. The term Maneating Crock made a sensational headline. Crocks do what Crocks do!!! Enjoy them from afar...they are the closest thing to perfection that has yet been created. I shar wsh Dorian wold hair me ta poff reed...dis il neber hapens ugains.

Has anybody noticed that there has not been the slightest hint of remorse, retraction, or even defence? They're apparently just keeping their heads down and hoping all this will go away. Meanwhile there is an edition out there that in practice lauds and encourages people to tease crocodiles (no matter what the words may say, the pictures say it all). IMO this is absolutely appalling.

The only post this newspaper made here it then decided to retract. There is a simple way of dealing with this - don't buy their newspaper in future.

http://sanpedrosun.net/old/01-492.html

Just a reminder...

Anyone else see the Irony in this exchange?


I then made comments about putting Alligators (2 l's) in the new Tropic tank: My post was obviously tongue in cheek, but the unintended consequences were priceless!


Peoples points of view certainly change depending on which side of an issue they fall

Yes I called her a stupid,reporter I was wrong ,she is not at fault As she has no experanice or traning at what she does and is not a reporter !!!!! .I know her well She is a good person,who thought she was doing something she thought was ok but very misguided,and nieve ..And Aligator it is Obvious she is your co worker or cousin .But the Real Blame is on the newspaper ,as they have no clue about Responable journalism ,and only want to sell add space.My point is if they did they would have Immediately Apolgized to all the good people who live here And said yes We Screwed up and it was a bad Article .I am, just a once a month Gringo who loves the island I do not live here year round but I Know right from wrong.And this was A Article that could cause someone getting killed..So yes Shame on you!!!!!!Do the right thing and redo your mistake!!!!

Just a point about Pedro1's post. The kids that have been doing this have not been there for 10 years. They come and go and I would doubt the last bunch have been there much more than 6 months to a year. Don't be fooled into thinking these kids have plenty of experience, the only training they've had is what they've seen on TV.

Dorian, I Have enjoyed your paper for years and do not remember anything so careless being printed previously. It is clear this article is intended to draw attention to the croc feedings as a tourist attraction, not as something that should be regulated. Comparing this to Shark Ray alley has absolutely no bearing. Although NO wild animal should ever be molested, the fact of the matter is that nurse sharks and sting rays are NOT protected species. Add to the fact that snorkeling tours are carried out by licensed guides who claim responsibility for their customers whereas the kids at the croc pond are not licensed, and have no clue what they are doing but just trying to make a buck.

I don't expect next week you will have Debbie on the beach buying a dime bag, because other people do and it can be fun. Illegal is illegal.

Very good points - well said JZB.

Yes, peoples point of view do exchange when there are just negative remarks revolving. I do thank captjeff for apologizing on the words that he used. I do think that these crocs are dangerous and that something must be done to make it safer. I just don't like how people take it in a way where they start talking non-sense instead of coming out of it with good intentions and try to help out. She is not my family and I don't even know them but its not fair to treat them this way. I like their paper and they made a mistake but then don't condemn them. Lets come up with a good solution before it's too late.

The mistake has been done and I do believe that ambergris today did not have the intention of misleading people towards this. Instead of attacking the newspaper in a rude way, Lets work together and do something about this crocs to stop it.
Pedro - that was not nice saying don't buy their newspaper in the future...You are being mean....

Lets all come up with a solution to this problem and stop it from happening.

Wild Crocodile
The following article was written by Zoologist Marisa Tellez from California who is currently in country researching Crocodilian Parasitology thru ACE/American Crocodiles Engangered Sanctuary. The organization’s contact information will be posted below the article.
http://www.cayecaulkerchronicles.com/?p=153

I guess Ambergris Today didnt see this coming. So I would suggest we work with the paper to see what good can come out of it. Hopefully the Town Council will take it more seriously and do something about it. Ambergris Today made a mistake, the bomb exploded but maybe Thanks to them something will be done.

NOW is the time for the change so lets make our island safer.

Is the article on the net?

It was.

Choose your battles wisely ole' boy.

I wanted to share the photos with some Russian friends.
total different sense of humor about women and dangerous reptiles.

Did anyone notice that Aligator registered yesterday? It seems very coincidental. I speculate that it's really just Ambergris Today trying to defend itself and it's indefensable actions.

Yes I re-register yesterday since I lost my password....I am a gringo from Texas. My name is John storm and I have been living in Belize for 3 years. I was away for 5 months and just got back. Can't believe you guys are blaming without knowing. I read Ambergris Today and San Pedro Sun and like both of them.

I travel alot around Belize since I am buying property.

I want to help and thought you guys accepted anyone.

Advise:
When you forget your password, all you have to do is click on "Forget your password?" - link and Marty immediately sends a new one to you.

Observation:
You must have changed your email too since the Board only allows one user per email address!

Welcome back John Storm (BTW what was your old user name?).

Ditto, ditto, ditto,...............etc. on EVERY post that is negative to the actons of Ambergris Today. I once watched a young couple (I have emailed this to Simon before) watching the feeding of the crocs, I was still on the street. I was shaking my head. They had two kids on the back of the cart and a yappy little dog running around it. While they watched the kid feed the croc another croc was on the other side of the spit and was halfway out of the water!!! I think he/she was looking at the dog as lunch or (God forbid) one of the kids.

Someday!!!!

I HOPE people will not let it be generally known where this is happens.

Deadsearious your such a super sleuth!

I don't agree with feeding the crocs, but laws are only as good as they are enforced. Something very lacking on the island is enforcement. So you all don't need to be so self righteous. Is it wrong? Yes. Should our laws be more enforced? Of course. Just keep in mind every action has an equal an opposite reaction. Every law that is properly enforced, even if rightfully so, will take more and more of our freedoms and carefree San Pedro lifestyle that we all cherish. Soon it will be as safe as Highland Park and just as rigid.

And really, I have yet to see one "Missing" poster for children eaten by crocodiles or witnessed any kids with peg legs. Not that it can't happen. As far as dogs, we do have leash laws here. Who would walk their dog into the croc pond?

Put the pitchforks down please.

WHEW !

Now there is a great addition to the board. Someone who can continue the debate in an intelligent maner without personal attacks. Not like you immissing, who makes such an inflamatory comment like "WHEW" which sould be "nuts".

Im cooking,I'll resond later

...manner.

Another personal attack.

I was going to delete jahunit's post as a personal attack but I think it's better left as an example of utter ignorance and racism.

I did delete Nancy1340's response which was just as vile.

My condolences to Capt Jeff for being described as less desirerable to the island as Pedro 1.

PS: and Simon, how about deleting Bill's "vile" comment which shows no sympathy for Alzheimer's and age.

Let's see. You let jahunit's post stand but mine that was "just" as vile was removed. Hummmmmmmmmm? So Jahuinit's is a friend of yours. Run in the same circles do you?


BTW the week we were there I didn't see one lady that I would classify as a "ho".

Of all the topics I've seen on this board, this would have been the one of the last ones I would have expected getting such visceral responses. Does Ambergris Today own the mob in San Pedro or something? Geeze people it's a criticism over a croc story -- it's not like someone accused your mother of wearing combat boots.

Im through with the ribs, potato salad and beans. So what ever ya'll said is good for me. (see how humble I am)

Good call Simon,
Just called Dorian, and the newspaper has got nothing to do with these posts. Shame the poster for his ignorance and nastiness!

Sounds to me like Pedro left his money on the night stand and the Capt. left without paying.

Im not gonna ask

I never thought that Dorian would have anything to do with the posts. He really is a great guy and does a wonderful job with the paper. Everyone is entitled to a slip once in a while.

nancy1340 you are just making a bad situation worse and truthfully your comments were even more ignorant than jahunit's. If you want to go down that road feel free to repost. Do NOT assume what, if any, allegiances I have; to do so will only make you look foolish.

Sounds like a personal attack to me

What a "crock of **** " this has turned into.

Headed for a lock down but let's give it some time.

OK, before that happens here is a thought for discussion more to the original topic. The crocks are a tourist attraction. It can be a dangerous encounter. Belize's argueably most famous tourist attraction is the Blue Hole. How many people have died or been injured diving the Blue Hole with what are supposed to be professional guides? Hmmm, is that a conundrum?

I've been quiet on this, but:
1. Cappy we are with you on this and that post by ??? (regiestered today) is total BS. He doesn't have a clue on what you have given to the community or who you are,because you will never say(It is who your are, one hell of a human begin, living the dream).He doesn't have a clue and he can go feed himself to the crocks!
2. Bywarren, i have really respected your comments before, but on this issue you are off base. Feeding crocks is against the law, dangerous encounters at the Blue Hole are not! Please think about your response and read all of the information on this subject. I remain a friend!

jahunit, what nasty unintelligent comments to make towards Capt. Jeff. Fact is, he is concerned about the locals and tourists and don't want to see them hurt, just like the rest of us. Some of us express ourselves in a different way and most of us can admit when we're wrong. Give a guy a break!

This thread has much drug the issue through the mud...

Does anyone know who jahunit is?

Uh... lemme guess... Aligator's cousin?

azbob, I only bring that up for discussion to get back to the serious subject. It is interesting to me the similarities. Both tourist attractions. Both dangerous. Yes, one illegal and I agree should be. But that said, if one tourist attraction is illegal, why is the other not? Other than one involves the danger from animals caused by human ignorance and the other by carelesness, ignorance or improper training of humans. I don't go to the circus and get in a cage and try to train lions and tigers. I don't get in the bull fight arena and fight bulls. I don't go to India and open the basket and try to charm snakes. And I don't feed the crocks. But some do, and one is illegal.
I am not suggesting diving the Blue Hole should be illegal. God help me, the rath I would get from divers would make Capt Jeff's critizim seem like a compliment. Just food for discussion.

Thanks bw, I now understand your point and your are right don't suggest that or if you plan on going diving you may be the "food - chum".

And, I was following the comments. Some advocated legal action against Debbie. My point is, should legal action be taken against someone doing a dangerous or stupid thing? And if so, then why not for doing other dangerous or stupid things?
Just something to think about. Where is the consistancy with the logic?
Seems like an attempt to prevent improving the gene pool thru legislation.

mellow out folks. been traveling. missed all this. have played with crocs. there are worse things by far. jeeze. you'd think the paper was inciting nuclear attack or something by all this.

Back to the original topic. It is completely irresponsible to put that picture on the front page of a paper. It's illeagle to harass a protected species (like sitting on one) and it's also irresponsible. It looks like the promotion of a local tourist attraction. It's NOT. A few local boys may make some cash, but one of them, or a tourist they lure in will lose a limb or die, and it will happen soon. These brand new posters to the board are clearly fakes that should be ignored if they aren't deleted. The paper should be fined for the poor judgenment they showed in printing/posting that picture. To compare the croc feed to Shark Ray alley is completely ignorant. I have gone many time, and I always make sure my guides do not chum. These newbies are fakes. The paper is responsible for what they have done. The personal attacks are STUPID! The problem is with what the paper posted, not with the paper and certainly not with the regulars on this board. I'm embarassed for some of you. You fell into the trap of the jackass who created a new IDs and posted BS. Don't feed the Gators. Period. I don't give a flaming rat's ass what you own on the island. I don't care if you are God Almighty who made the damned island. Don't feed the Gators. It's dangerous, and all those who watch it and give these boys money encourage the continuance of this IGNORANT activity. Stop the BS and the in-fighting and concentrate on the problem. Look at the newbies and their lack of willingness to identifiy themselves. No matter who they are, they are not interested in anything but causing problems. As for the rest of us, we want the best for the Caye. Don't let them hijack the topic. AT should be punished. Chris, your response is absurd. Warren, yours is too, and Wrath is spelled with a "W". The Blue Hole is a natural wonder, not a protected species. Jesus H Tapdancing Christ, I thought I was moving into a place with thoughtful, if diverse viewpoints. Instead, you let some idiot that creates new IDs get you to turn on each other. Foolishness. Concentrate! The problem is feeding the crocs, not the people talking about it. Jeez!! I'll be embarassed for you.

"should legal action be taken against someone doing a dangerous or stupid thing?" - Only if it is an illegal action, otherwise stupidity is just that. The Darwin Awards are a good example of both. Staying on point: AC Today took pictures of Debbbie and another performing an illegal act and published them, that is subject of discussion.
Additional discussion will have to follow tomorrow - it's past my bed time - night all!

Dutch is right. The issue is not principally that what was done was illegal, or that it was promoting an illegal spectacle. What matters is that it is downright dangerous and is being promoted as "just a bit of fun". Not everyone realises how fast these creatures can move when they choose, and don't be lulled into thinking that because they haven't so far attacked they are guaranteed not to. I have seen crocodiles in Africa attacking and bringing down rhino, and it is extraordinary to see a dormant log suddenly erupt into a devastatingly fast and powerful killing machine.

There is a major difference from the treatment of sharks. Nurse sharks are not dangerous creatures - our treatment of them can sometimes be regarded as harassment, but they are usually very willing participants. Chumming the water in the Blue Hole for bigger sharks is not of itself particularly harmful, though I would prefer that it weren't done - it causes them to associate boats with food.

But what is utterly irresponsible and is too often done is chumming the water when there are still divers down. I recall once seeing a feeding frenzy of 10 or 12 bull and reef sharks above me when I was still at 60'. I'm experienced enough to cope with that, but an inexperienced diver might well have freaked at the sight. One of the most reputable operators on AC was responsible then and still often does it. I challenged them once - the reply was "no-one's ever been hurt". Until the first time.

Illeagle? - Illegal

That is for dutch.

Please forgive the website, but the video says it all. http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1132988400/Crocodile_Attack

Was thinking of a sick bird. Thanks Warren. Sorry for my rath...err...wrath. Hate to see good people turned by nonsense.

OK, keeping on topic. So far most of the reasoning for making this illegal is that it is dangerous. No one has been injured feeding the crocks. Some have been injured scuba diving and even sky diving, sorry for adding that analogy Reaper.
My point is I am against legislating personal responsibility.
But if you are in favor of that, then where is the consistancy?

And Jesus Marty, when are you going to get spell checker so I quit getting corrected?

Warren, I agree about personal responsibility. In fact, I bet we agree about much more than we disagree about. I've gone skydiving and scuba diving, but no one else was at risk but me. We also agree about spell check! Let's get together for a beer or six...

I am not trying to disagree, just looking for the consistancy with the logic. Seems to me that sometimes people's logic is affected and not always consistant based on their personal enjoyment of activities.

The moral of the story is..........some of ya'll need to take up a hobby and give the keyboard a rest. Needle point is a good start for most of you.

Chris must have finished his tea towel

bywarren, it is illegal not because it stupid but because it is violation of Belize's Wildlife Protection Act regarding interference with protected species.

Ok just got back from A big apple all night cool Party ,well you know ??It is good to be bad. Any way who called me what and what did this Winner say duh???And what rock did they crawl out from under..IF you want send me a pm please!!!!!!!!!!...

i think you make a good point. alot of the board is freaking over the croc thing. i have passed by but have never stopped and dont want to.

i have been to the blue hole twice. the first time i ever went we were over 100 ft deep when the dive master signaled it was time to surface. my partner tapped me and pointed up, as i looked up there was a swarm of sharks circling above us, brought up by the deck hands chumming the water. honestly it was one of the coolest moments i have had in diving, but those first few seconds.....pretty scary as you start to figure out you have to go through THAT to get to the surface. we settled on the rim of the hole at 30 ft and watched as the sharks circled looking to pick off fish from the boat. there were lemon, grey reef, and bulls among them.

my question is, how is that not atleast as dangerous as the croc feed? i chose to take the trip to the hole, i didnt even know they were going to do that with the sharks, still it was fun and i went back a second time, honestly, looking for the same thrill. i have been in the water several times with sharks, understanding the whole way, i was putting myself in that position. that is a practice that is routinely accepted but for some reason, putting your self in that position with the croc is lunacy. to me the risk is the same. you have to know if you get off that cart, its on you when something goes wrong. claiming ignorance after the fact is not going to hold water.

im not looking to pick a fight, i really would just like to have someone explain the thought process in that.

fish

OK, Simon: Lets go to the next step trying to follow the logic. If the crocks are endangered I can see a law prohibiting killing them. But feeding them would seem to be in their best interest if they are endangered. And, if sitting on the back of a crock is mollesting it, I am sure the crock could defend itself without the help of legislation.

Just curious as to peoples reasoning for laws.

I question the reasoning for this law and certainly do not believe there should be a call for legal punishment for the action in question.

I'll try and keep it short.

When Crocodiles (or many other wild animals) are fed by humans it causes a change in their natural behaviours. One area of concern is migration of additional animals into an area that traditionally only supports a limited number due to the availability of food. Crocs are territorial and generally setup their territories based on the available food supply. The more food, the more the area can support without conflict. When food supply is diminished territorial disputes occur with the smaller, weaker and oldest of animals being pushed out of the area first to find new food sources.

What is already happening in the lagoon is that, thanks to the readily available food supply, more Crocs are moving into the area as the territory of the original Croc's diminishes; as they don't have to defend the territory as vigorously. This will have a spiraling effect as other Croc's move in to fill the territorial void created by the migration to the food source. At some point in time though a critical mass will occur where the feeding situation created by humans will not be able to support the population. At that time there will be territorial conflicts and the Croc's will become more aggressive in their feeding behaviour.

Unfortunately we have already reached a point where stopping the feeding is going to have a negative impact. The Croc's at the lagoon will now have to migrate to find food sources. Due to their desensitization to humans and the association with humans providing food this will cause significant problems. Croc's that have been fed and desensitized will have no fear of moving into local residential areas on the lookout for easy meals (read small animals and possibly unwary children.)

When this happens, guess what's next. The only solution will be to kill off the Croc's in the lagoon that have been fed and desensitized. That is why the laws are in place to prevent direct interaction between humans and protected species.

A couple of citations regarding feeding programs:

http://www.thylazine.org/gallery/jumpcroc/

“Many of the crocodiles seen from the cruise had missing limbs. This is due to the abundance of domesticated food provided to the animals. The result of these daily feedings is that the section of river where the cruise takes place becomes overcrowded and crocodiles start to predate on each other.”

http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/fieldcourses01/MarineEcologyArticles/Draft2.AlligatorsoftheEve.html

“Florida law prohibits feeding of wild gators, as most fatal attacks on humans have occurred when gators have been fed by humans or are protecting their nests.”

Jahunit
.Thank you for your very thought out comments !! But since you you a flair with the words ,And I do not ,I will try to Respond As best I can ?? #1 first you spelling is worst then mine..#2 I have no idea what a bar girl is I think know ? While I do have some wonderful female friends they do not work in a bar???.#3 Now listen to this Moron in the last five years I have personally donated over 40,000 dollars to the island charities ,schools,lions club ,and most important people in need Oh by the way all belizean !!!!And all from Sanpedro !!!! #4 All who know me, know how I got the name, capt jeff ,it was from my business it was a trade name and I have used it for the last 20 yers and use it here as a goof I like ,it it is me..#5 Yes you are right I do not know the sea or the reefs here ,why would I,I am a gringo??? who loves to fish . But I do hire and use only local captains who are wonderful and more important good friends and thus a win /win ,spendindg lots of money here to support there familes it is a good thing As come almost once a month not only in tourist season . #6 My comments where that I think someone will get killed like a local young kid who thinks this is cool feeding crocs , thinking he will make a few dollars in tips!! A shame as does know not shit from shinola about life yet and this will be a sad day for all of Sanpedro!!! #7 And last but not least I have lost 50lbs yes thats right 50 lbs so far, so do not call me fat ,call me starting to looking good ???Oh If you have Any balls which I do not think you have ,do not stand behind that phony name tell us who you are !!!!! I thik you will not!!! have a good day and watch your fingers.

I'm glad I do not log on in the evenings and missed all the childish rants. Were the words poopoo head or caca face used?

The reason I started this post was actually not to debate the croc feeding. It was not to tell people they are stupid. I just wanted to point out that a responsible newspaper should NEVER promote an illegal activity as a positive thing. End of story.

Thanks, Simon: I will look forward to your comments.
Let me make my points clear. Yes, I think the newspaper printed an inappropriate article. No, I do not think sitting on the back of a crock is reason for criminal punishment. Yes, I think it is stupid. No, I do not think laws are necessary to replace personal responsibility. Yes, I think laws are appropriate to protect people from other people’s irresponsibility. No, I do not think feeding or sitting on the back of a crock is molesting or harming it as it is very capable of stopping that on its own without the help of legislation.
And, if one advocates such legislation, which I do not, it should be applied equally to activities of similar danger, if danger is the logic, or to molesting of any wild animal, if that is the logic – not just to activities that one does not participate in or enjoy themselves.
I have no objection to protecting endangered animals from killing or harm that could cause their extinction.
I have yet to read a report on a crock dying from a pretty lady sitting on its back.

It would kill me.

When someone repeatedly feeds chicken to a croc, its pea size brain starts associating people with food. That's the problem, and it is beyond legal or illegal, stupid or not stupid.
We should leave them alone, or have the smart people from Belize Zoo be consultants on how to create a lagoon croc zoo under controlled management and let the kids sell "I met the croc" t-shirts, souvenirs and ice cream instead of risking their own and others' limbs on an every day basis.

Posted my comments above.

OK, but then what about chuming for sharks in the Blue Hole?

I am against selective legislation. Niether should be illegal.
Education before legislation.

That comment was for weile. Simon your points on interaction with wild animals are very valid. But, I still feel it is more of an educational issue than a legal issue.

It was my understanding that it was not illegal because it is stupid and dangerous, but rather illegal because it tames dangerous creatures to humans and brings them closer to our habitats, making the danger extend not to the person doing the act but to the community as a whole.

That is much different than anything going on that the Blue Hole.

Comes down to the fact that the American Saltwater Crocodile is protected worldwide as an endangered species under the CITES treaty. They are protected to ensure that further reduction of the species is prevented.

If the shark's in the Blue Hole were protected species the same rules would apply.

If there were no selective legislation then there would be no protection of any endangered species, eventually leading to extintion.

Feeding the crocs is not illegal because it is stupid, it is illegal because the animal is endangered thanks to human interference and we now have to let the crocs be crocs. Having them perform tricks on the side of the road for a chicken leg is not going to help the species.

Sharks are not endangered (I'll say it one last time) and it is not illegal to swim with them while chumming. Stupid but not illegal.

This thread is starting to go around in dizzying circles so this is the last you'll hear from me here. Peace out!

(Simon, you must type much faster than me!)

Just to add to the selective legislation factor.

There are roads in the US where the speed limit is 55mph. Given no selective legislation then I should be able to travel on any road at that speed. Now if that were the case I might have to be educated on the possible impact of driving 55mph in a 10mph zone but without any legislated consquence I wouldn't have to abide by those limits if I didn't feel like it as there is no disincentive.

"When someone repeatedly feeds chicken to a croc, its pea size brain starts associating people with food."

My comment about sharks was addressed to this logic - is it not the same?

Simon your points are well taken concerning endangered species. The problem I have is calling for criminal punishment for sitting on the back of a croc like some have done on this topic.

Driving 55 in a 10 mile zone endangers others - thus the logic for law. I do not see where sitting on a croc endangers the croc or others.

"...the speed limit is 55mph."
Does that apply to sharks or crocs?

Remember when feeding the bears at Yellowstone National Park was all the rage? They had miles of cars parked in "bear jams" while people feed the creatures jelly donuts. It was the #1 tourist attraction for the park, until the bears decided the tourists were tastier than the donuts. Of course, those BAD BEARS where immediately killed because that sort of behavior does not do much for tourism. Now, it is against the law to feed the bears in Yellowstone but you can still see them there, from a distance, and they are doing what bears are suppose to do, foraging for food, not donuts. The Wyoming Game and Fish went on a statewide campaign educating the community that "a feed bear is a dead bear." Anyone living in an area where bears live are required to keep their garbage securely contained, follow other strict precautions and feeding them for entertainment is illegal. We had neighbors who used to do that, until the bear became aggressive. Authorities tried several times to relocate the animal but the neighbor ended up shooting the creature from his front porch. I have seen crocs in the San Pedrito area swimming in garbage filled lagoons and no doubt they are enjoying a free meal as well. As long as there is food, you can bet the animal will return. When a wild animal learns to associate food with man they also lose their fear and respect from man, and can become quite aggressive when man does not have the food, or maybe he just decides one day he just does not like this two legged creature. What happens when someone goes to fish the same lagoon that the crocs are feed in and they do not have a chicken? These crocs are not approaching us because they want us to take a better look at THEM; they want to take a better look at US to see what/who they can eat. Wild animals are unpredictable and just because they seem complacent it does not mean we understand what is really going on in their heads. I doubt they are thinking “gee, I wish that pretty girl would sit on me” the more likely scenario is “yum, she looks delicious!”

All comes back to desensitization of their natural fear of humans which puts them in conflict therefore endangering itself and others (same as the speeding law scenario.)

The Belize Forest Department and the Belize Audubon Society are trying to outlaw chumming for sharks at the Blue Hole as it clearly holds the same concerns. Then, if you see sharks while diving there they are there because the area is their habitat, not because someone rang the dinner bell.

For articles from March this year:
Audubon Society fights shark feeding at Blue Hole
and
Forest Dept. will launch campaign against feeding wild animals
follow this link:
http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/270502/

"I do not see where sitting on a croc endangers the croc or others."

Did you look at this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_JbI_d0Xdc

You are sighting examples of exactly what and why legislation in place of education can lead down a slippery slope.
Although Simon's examples of the need to protect endangered species and your example of the bears both demonstrate valid concerns and the eventual laws.
When I used the analogy of the Blue Hole, some quickly pointed out that was not the same. Now we see that some are using the logic to make that illegal. How about feeding the fish at Hol Chan? Are we not talking similar logic? Then what about chuming for fish when trying to catch them?
My original comments were to try and get those quick to call for legal action against Debbie and the paper to be careful what they ask for as it might end up "biting" them.

Having laws that protect animals from harmful human behavior and laws that protect humans from other humans harmful behavior are appropriate. But laws that penalize people for their own stupid behavior are unnecessary- IMO.

I'm pretty much with bywarren on this one. The law already exists; like many laws everywhere it seems to be having little impact. As long as there is demand there will be supply. Since addressing the supply hasn't worked, why not attempt to address the demand? I still like Seashell's idea about posting something regarding this issue in every hotel room. Had we know the facts on our first visit, we would not have participated.

Like most here, I've spoken out against this before. In the Everglades & the swamps of the southeast you are fined for feeding alligators and the animal is caught & killed, because once they associate humans with providing food they expect it from ALL humans, whether it's a fisherman or a child playing near the water. They don't beg, they feed. It's only a matter of time until someone gets hurt. The fact that it hasn't happened recently has to be the most ignorant attitude I've ever heard. When we heard about the feedings we avoided the area, not as much as a boycott but just to ensue we didn't witness a horrible incident.
Ask yourself, how would you feel if it were your child risking his life to entertain tourists? Buy some necklaces or carvings from the kids instead, they'll be a lot better off and have more fun doing it.

"We never invited anyone to go feed the crocodiles and never said it was a tourist attraction."
Then please explain what you meant when you published this "Contrary to other reports, I did not see any of these crocodiles being abused! If they were not happy they would not keep coming back.It seems that they have grown used to these boys and even like being fed in exchange for a few photo-ops!"

The article doesn't really go in depth of how dangerous this is.

I really have not taken tis discussion too seriously until I read the above phrase "they don't beg, they feed" Yipes, that puts it in to perspective. I feel badly for the neophyte reporter. I bet she will be more careful in the future

that was my point. that sharks are going thru the exact same thing. there is an area in the bahamas called bull run. its a dive site, there really isnt a big reef system either, just an outcropping and the shark population is huge. the reason is its where all the live aboards bring their divers to see the sharks. chum cicles are used in a lot of instances. our boat captian brought us there but did not feed them. he said it was bringing more sharks to the area that the eco system could not support.

thinking about it now, it makes me wonder how much danger we were in by going down and not having food. my question has been why is this ok with sharks but not with crocs.

i have read simons post and do understand the point of crocs being endangered. i thank him for broadening my view there. but honestly, i do not think that this thread, or the argument it has become, is based on the croc being endangered. this argument has been based between those who view it as dangerous vs those who view it as entertainment. i think the endangered part, though true, is a technicality, as it applies to this argument.

i do understand there are a few who have been bringing up the endangered status of crocs, but not many.

fish

To: ambertoday@btl.net
Subject: Subscription Form

Name: Thomas Blackledge
Company: Medical Center
Street: P.O. Box 748
Address:
City: Magee
State/Province: MS
Zip Code: 39111
Country: USA
E-Mail: tommy@tecinfo.com

Comments: I own property on the south end of the island and have enjoyed your paper / web site for 2 years now.

I feel however that the recent article about croc feeding was VERY irresponsible. The article condoned this illegal and very dangerous activity. The writer also gave the impression that this activity is sanctioned by the deputy mayor.

Sitting on that massive croc and posing for a photo is absolutely one of the most ignorant things I have ever seen.

Since our property is south then we frequently ride by this site during "the feeding". I never stop or photo this activity and I'm forced to explain why each time to my boys who are lead to believe this activity is safe since so many others are doing it.

Children and teens frequently make these type stupid descisions but adults should not. I hope you have the gumption to admit your mistake and issue not only an appology in next weeks paper but also an article to try to deter anyone from participating in this illegal and very dangerous activity.

Thomas Blackledge
001-601-849-1918

OK, were are the 'personal' attact cops ?

JSB. "poor taste"?
Heavens, that's what has us worried!
Shocked as we are about the abuse of these prehistoric creatures; what really concerns us about our holidays on AC is good taste. What we need here is a comentarist with plenty of time to post, someone who will interpret for the less educated. We engineers, finance experts, physicians and assorted entreprenures need someone to tell us how to arrange and manage our kitchens! We need someone to tell us which wines we enjoy, to arrange the flowers and "do" the ladies hair!

OK

1)Now That you know what it feels like to be called rude names, I hope you think twice before you call sombody stupid.
i hope

2) congrats on losing 50 pounds i hope it makes u feel better.

3) im against feeding the crocks.

but i am against stoping it quickly.
I admit im no wildlife expert,and the study done in caye caulker will not apply to our rare crocks.
every colony of crocks is diferent
crocks are wild animals who naturaly inherit there parents habits what this means is even the baby crocks now know
people = food
take in mind that none of these crocks are currently able to hunt for themselvs in the wild because they have been fed for so long.

bad move on our behalf and we are all responsable so long as you know about it and did nothing to stop it.
I think we need to block off the area and fence it off because when we stop feeding them (and we should) is when we start losing dogs and hopfully never!! a child or person

also if people insist on the fact that it brings tourists
not cool whats next manatee hunting

btw there are hundreds of crocks back there even tho we only see a few at a time and with no natural treat to the crocks this numbers will only grow.

its a good idea to make perhaps a place to view them but feeding is not only imoral but causes a massave effect and we as a expanding population can not risk having hungry crocks thinking its our job to feed them.

The same is for every animal feeding other than dogs and cats.

I have to agree with harriet pics are what we need not touching or feeding


but i thank ambergris today for reminding all the people there are things this island needs to consider before taking rash actions. all ambergris today did is report the news thats what they are there for thats why we buy the paper.

The crocs we're talking about aren't fed with the chickens, they're just teased with them. Maybe one of them gets the chicken at the end, but there's very little on it. So cutting off their food supply is not an issue.

Oh, and crocodiles aren't prehistoric creatures. They're as modern as we are, they live in the 21st century. They may have started out 200 million years ago, but they have developed. You might just as well say that insects are prehistoric. It doesn't mean anything.

Good to see that the sniping over the choice of words has kicked in... that's always helpful and constructive.

Just a trivial observation, Tacoboy, no more, no less.

dear lord people! enough already...sheesh...

cant a girl just get a few new pair of croc shoes and a new sassy croc purse oh, and maybe a croc belt, headband and hat...and we can call the croc issue settled...if not morally, at least fashionably!

before you all FREAK THE HELL OUT...i really wont actually kill the crocs to make fashion accessories...i dont even wear rubber croc shoes for fear of potentially offending someone (mostly me)!

on a side note, i drove some boys to the croc pond the other day (locals ive known for years). Told them to be careful with the crocs, told them about the croc story on caye caulker. the 8 year old said, "oh just run like this" (and made a wavy motion with his hand). I told him that only works if you are WAYYYYY ahead...pointed out that the croc can take off faster than a gas golf cart. (MPH means absolutely NOTHING to someone who's lived every day of their life on an island that only recently got a few cars...and only more recently had a road on which they could go faster than 10 mph...let alone 35 - 48)

EDUCATION people...not attacks on each other.

Lets put this to rest and all forgive Ambergris Today, promise not to go to the croc lagoon, not to tip the boys, and to try to give them education. sheesh...low lying fruit folks.

Help Take a Bite Out of Extinction!
Tuesday, July 15
7pm Lions Den

ACES and the Belize Forest Service welcomes Tour Guides, Tour
Operators, and Hotel personnel to attend a two hour presentation
on the protected American Crocodiles. Belize Forest Department
Wildlife Officer, Andre Lopez, will present important information
about Belize’s Wildlife Laws regarding protected species; along
with special guest speaker Marisa Tellez, a Zoologist from the LA
Zoo in California and a Crocodilian Parasitological Research
Student at UCLA who is studying at ACES, will talk about these
magnificent present day dinosaurs and their extreme importance
in Belize’s ecosystem. Biologist, Cherie Chenot-Rose and Croc
Behaviorist, Vincent Rose, founders of ACES in Toledo will be
available to answer any questions regarding the Croc Sanctuary.
Come learn Croc facts to increase your knowledge for tours! The general public is welcome as well!

LMAO!

Ok, do I dare ask, after page 15 of this rant, where can I get a copy of this article? Someone save it for me!

I'm with travelqueen. I haven't seen a picture of the incident. How many have? I don't think that it is a good idea to sit on a croc. Just waiting for an accident to happen.

THe B52's new hit single on Ambergris Radio = Croc Attack!

I'm waiting with bated breath for the first battle to be fought based on "My Thesaurus can kick you dictionary's ass any day...Praise be to the Alphabet...no not the Cyrillic....My Alphabet, infidel"

You know, i will not judge anyone. I am a journalist and in fact i am an active member of the Society for Environmental Journalism. As journalist, we must never give our opinion in a story. Thats is why there is an editorial. We are charter (if we are recognized) with a journalism code of ethics.

I work on a crocodile story for two weeks and i aired it. I spoke to croc feeders, toursists, experts, the different authorities and i reported the story as is. My job is not to challenge science, as a journalist, i must educate and advocate for change through factual reporting.

these are just a few facts:

Crocodile are endagered and procted under the Wildlife Protection Act of Belize

Abuse of an whildlife in any form including feeding, tampering with habitat, getting within a range of 100 yards, stealing there young whether egg, or babies are just a few of the ways they are considered under the law to be abuse.

Even getting close ( within 100 yards) to take pics is a form of abuse.

There are many ways to skin a cat (educate our listers, views or readers).Journalist must explore how best we can attract our readers but we must first be educated about issues.

Doctor Bob, from the International Center for Journalism once told me this "a good journalist is one who educate people to champion meaninful change."

"Good taste" Hmmm, seems to me that's all the crocs want, is just one good taste. Yummy. Not to mention, biting aside, significant damage could be done with one mere flick of a tail whilst someone one is near or touching or riding for a photo op . . . you'd think a rational person would be able to see the reason in that, before they got anywhere near.

All the aforesaid in this thread, did me absolutely no good at all with my last two travel companions. Neither of them would listen to me. There was nothing for it but to go and see the crocs. I did not participate. Regardless, anything I said, went in one deaf ear and out the other. I was grateful to see neither of them got hurt.

I'm back to my suggestion that flyers be placed in every hotel room.

As a reformed journalist myself, reading that post proved genuinely painful. I'd almost rather sit on a hungry crock than endure the lack of structure, misuse of the language and disregard for spelling it exhibits.

Or not. What, as they say, ever. Seems to me the law and, probably more important in this case, common sense pretty much cover any aspect of the issue.

CatMo, Im afraid to respond cause I might misuse the lingo misspell forget comma's and periods But nice too meet you anyhow.

i know it has errors babes, it took me 1 min to escribir my comentario. This space is not a perfect space. ok. Look at your writting. Despues vas a see. And by the way the issue is not over my writting, its about how Ambergris Today screewed up on thier article on crocs, not me. tek dat!!!!

Let's try and cool it before we start seeing personal attacks!!

Personal Attacts and I havent even posted !!!

Hey Ernie! You gotta watch your posts or we'll make you work at the Ambergris Today office - and you know what that means...... a short visit to the croc pond.

OK, Id like some new shoes anyway.

Andre Lopez, Wildlife Officer for the Belize Forest Service followed the presentation and outlined the laws under the Belize Wildlife Protection Act. Under the Act “wildlife” means all undomesticated mammals, birds and reptiles and all parts, eggs and nests of any of these life forms. With the exception of permitted hunting, it is illegal to kill or molest (annoy, interfere with or disturb) such wildlife and in the case of endangered species these laws are very specific, and feeding them is strictly prohibited.

Following Mr. Lopez, Biologist, Cherie Chenot-Rose and Croc Behaviorist, Vincent Rose, founders of ACES, lead a discussion where the group voiced concern on how to put an end to the croc feeding tourist attraction that takes place south of San Pedro. It was agreed that continued education throughout the community was paramount and that the more the police force learned about the laws the better equipped they would be to enforce them.

The San Pedro Sun will continue to report on the progress of remedying the problem. For more information please contact ACES at acesnpo@hughes.net.

Go go San Pedro Sun. And by the way look at the excuse on the editorial. them no lawn yet.

from Ambergris Today Blog:
Mission Accomplished!
Some negative feedback came back to Ambergris Today on the article we published last week about feeding the crocodiles in the popular column “Donde Esta Debbie”. We never saw people interpreting that we condone the action and call it a tourist attraction to bring visitors from all over the place to come see the feedings. We thank everybody for expressing their ideas and concerns.

Maybe the only mistake that we did was not being 100% clear of the intention of the article. But in the past Ambergris Today has, by published countless articles and pictures in regards to the dangers of feeding the crocodiles and warned people about doing so.


We agree that the manner in which the intended message was delivered was not the most appropriate one and the pictures should not have been taken, but we had tried time and again to warn the people about the dangers involved and no one listened, until now! This was probably the only way that we could think about to get people’s attention and wanted to make the proper authorities see the picture and do something that was safe for all. Our intention was to expose these dangers so that the town could build a safe facility for tourists to view the animals in their environment without any interference.


For the past three years, ever since the crocodile killed a dog at the WASA Pond, we have been preaching that something must be done to protect people from a possible vicious attack by one of these beasts. Then a group of young men started feeding the animals just to catch a view and have fun. Later on they started feeding them as a tourist attraction to collect some tips. And all this time nothing has been done. Now the focus has shifted from protecting people to protecting the animals because they are a protected species. But still nothing has been done until recently the town council hinted that it is planning to convert the place into an adequate and safe park as a tourist attraction. But everyday the feeding activity continues and nothing concrete happens.


To get attention for positive action on that matter, the author of Where’s Debbie Today got permission from the Deputy Mayor to report on what’s happening there to create public awareness. Debbie risked her personal safety to do this investigative report and does not deserve to be called: Dumb, Idiot, Fool, Local Sanpedrana, and Single mother. (By the way when is being a single mother and being a local something degrading?) Unfortunately a few people have misinterpreted the issue and resorted to insulting and abusive even threatening remarks at Debbie and our newspaper. We regret to see that a small group of people misunderstood our article, but nevertheless we are happy that it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED on the matter for now much attention is being given to it and we will finally have a plan of action for the spot.


We talked to the Town Council to either stop it or create a safer environment to feed these animals, because we could see so many tourists going there and endangering themselves. We admit that we did not make this point strong enough, but surely we have in the past, with no avail. Because weather or not we agree to it, the feedings are still going on. I have never gone to feed these animals and we probably should not have taken those pictures (I agree to that), but it seems that it was the only way that I could draw attention to the matter. I agree that feeding these animals is dangerous and should not be done. BUT IT IS BEING DONE! And I wanted to do just that, have the proper authorities create a safer environment.


I was surprised to see the negativity coming from some people to the extent of some people insulting our reporter and condemning our newspaper. We were trying to do something positive for the town and we hope that with this we have taken the first step in making it better.

Nice try....

Ambergris Today just has no idea how to properly apologise.

The blog post comes across as though they got caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing so they find the need to justify their actions by coming up with an excuse that half makes sense. And to make it seem sincere, they look for something small that they can admit to doing wrong to try to appease the people who caught them in the act.

In the US, this type of reply would be laughed at and ridiculed and the person who wrote it would be fired. I'm actually glad that in Belize, people such as these can remain to continue their dubious attempt at journalism. It makes for some interesting reading and conversation.

Pathetic to be sure

Whoa! That spin is making me dizzy!

Well, obviously we stumbled upon a secret plan that would turn public opinion to the right way of thinking...by dangling their rookie cub reporter near the jaws of the maneating crocadile. Absolutely...Nixonian in it brilliance. PS. Sorry, Dorian...it went over our heds.

Where were these guys after Watergate, Whitewatergate or even Monica?

they are brilliant.....

Maybe they are part of the Obama campaign - OH SORRY - politics

BRILIANT!!!!...BRILLIANT!!!!!

Good morning, everyone. I read the article on the way from Placencia to San Pedro last week w/my husband. I have to give Debbie kudos for what she is trying to do, promote tourism but encouraging the boys and tourists to partake in this is a huge mistake. I don't think she should be penalized but I don't see a good end to this, someone is going to get seriously hurt and I agree with everyone that these are dangerous animals and should not be mistreated but left alone in their environment. I think it was just bad judgement on her part. Maybe she should consider a suggestion box on where to go next that would be safe and fun and show off the beautiful things in San Pedro. Thanks.

I took a look at the Ambergris Today blog over the weekend. I found that they were quick at correcting media houses on choice of words in a story. Ambergris Today – a message to you. Instead of correcting another media house, starting correcting your errors. The people of San Pedro and investors are still awaiting an apology from you guys after committing such a BIG ERROR in publishing Debbie on the back of a croc and encouraging people to visit and feed crocs. Remember what Debbie said, “don’t forget to tell them Debbie sent you.” You are playing with fire. Remember those same media house that you want to correct could have played a different ball game and smash you last week for your sloppy reporting. They taught me something; that they are on a different level than the Ambergris Today and that is the reason they didn’t made your weakness and opportunity for them to grow. The Lions teaches that “in building your businesses, you don’t tear down another.” It may do some good for the Ambergris Today to repeat it-find some good in that teaching then you will learn to grow.
Stop your poor reporting then we can talk business.

Nuff respect to our people.