Who else thought that this week's 'Donde Esta Debbie' Article was in very poor taste?

This week Debbie went to enjoy the crocodile feeding and even got her photo taken sitting on top of a croc. Not only does this article condone this behavior, it is encouraging it!

Regardless of what Debbie thinks, it is still ILLEGAL! They should be fined just on the photo alone.

Jzb I read the above and looked at the picture ..My thoughts where #1 She has to be stupidest reporter if thats whats she does to eke out a living ,#2 she is encouraging people to join her stupidity and she might get some kid Or person killed.#3 the editor should have a least looked this craziness over before this went to press so he must be also out of touch with reality or ALSO out of his mind .#4 Yes the island needs things to bring in tourists but not with this . #5 I hope nobody in the outside world sees this paper as the voice and reason of Ambergriscaye And the good citizens here think this is aceptable and good for the island .#5 I did like and enjoy the paper,but today they went over the line And made a big mistake!!!!!!! As they just let this very stupid lady represent them as there spokesperson for bad [JOURNALISM ]???? #6 YES SHAME ON YOU,AT LEAST HAVE THE SENSE TO APOLOGIZE FOR HER STUPIDITY.AND SAY WE ARE SORRY FOR THIS POOR THOUGHT OUT STORY AND IT'S DEADLY RAMIFICATIONS ..

An actual quote from the article says 'Contrary to other reports, I did not see any of these crocodiles being abused!' Meanwhile, she is sitting on one! Plus other stoooopid comments.
Was the editor on vacation this week???

They should seriously be punished in some form of a fine or mandatory retraction. Additionally, I know of more than a handful of hotels who tell their guests about this and even go so far as to provide chickens for the feedings. It's absolute craziness that people put their faith in a bunch of 13 year olds but they do. They get caught up in the whole "when in Rome" thing. Nuts.

Donde Esta Debbie's leg?

I love how they mention "Shark Ray alley" as well. As a local dive instructor once told me;

"People wonder why they get bitten by animals sometimes when snorkeling or diving. 9 times out of 10 they are doing something they shouldn't be doing, which is usually riding, touching or chasing them. Ask yourself this - if you were walking down the street and some tourist jumped on YOUR back, what would you do?"

They really need to get a handle on all of the craziness that goes on with regards to this kind of stuff. All it takes is one CNN report and years of reputation building are down the drain.

Anyone else notice the ad for medical service NEXT to the article, lol.

I heard about it well in advance but couldn't believe that they would print the article. Whether or not they think it's cute or not it's still AGAINST THE LAW. There's a reason they are a protected species, they should have done some research before they printed the article..

Ive done a few stupid things in my life but that aint one of them !

Well lets just tar and feather her this young 24 year old single mother then! Give the young girl a break people. Folks make mistakes and we all have done and will do stupid things (like swim in chummed water at Shark Ray Alley and the Blue Hole supporting the feeding of wild animals). Too bad this one is in print. At least her and her family and the newspaper's family are from here and have made huge contributions to the tourism product on Ambergris Caye. This doesn't make it right but should put it into perspective.

I thought that was just photo shop...that can't be a real picture sitting on a croc.

My word! I hadn't heard of this, but it really is crazy! And as it's also illegal and we all agree the croc baiting should stop, can we ensure that all people involved are personally prosecuted and the newspaper similarly? If that doesn't happen then we've lost the battle to stop it, and that'll have to wait until there's a tragedy.

Do the police require a formal referral from a member of the public before they can act? If so, can someone bring a copy of the paper this evening? There'll be enough people there to make a formal complaint.

Come on Chris, "made a mistake"? Sitting on a crocodile? There were enough people involved in this photoshoot and article that someone must have known that it was illegal. In any case, a newspaper owes a duty of care to the community, and this was utterly irresponsible - as must have been apparent to the people who perpetrated it.

Obviously I don't advocate disproportionate punishment, but SOMETHING should happen. Even if she's given a conditional discharge, told not to do it again, that would get the message over. Or even just a Police Caution, with no Court action. Doing NOTHING also gets a message over, and it's one that most of us don't want to convey.

This is gonna be an interesting meeting!

Was just brainstorming....How about solving the crime issue on the island with feeding the criminals that get caught steeling or robbing, feeding them to the crocs. The crocs will be well fed and the island will be a very happy place again...win win situation for everybody, except the criminal...

I've made huge "mistakes" in my life, even well after 24. And I've been punished for them, as have my superiors. I absolutely cringe when I hear about how we should lay off people when they have entrenched duties in protecting and promoting tourism. And protecting tourism means protecting TOURISTS. I'm going to have the biggest headache when, in a few years time, we start re-debating this after a tourist loses their hand. But that seems to be how we humans and policy-makers ever progress. By learning the hard way.

Chris, that's ridiculous. If it's dangerous and illegal, don't put it in the paper like it's a tourist attraction. It makes it worse that she's a local who should know better, and the paper ought to know that is dangerous and illegal. I don't think she should be beaten and imprisioned, but it's still a stupid thing to put on the front page. When soneone gets bitten, the paper has some responsibility for it. Jeez.

.

Post subsequently deleted by Ambergris Today:-
"If everybody is so ready to shame Ambergris Today, well why don’t we shame all those people who take visitors to Shark Ray Ally? It’s the same thing! Having people interact with wild animals. Clearly many of you speak too fast before reading carefully. We all know that this feeding of crocodiles takes place on a daily basis and many people are carrying tourist to this place. I guess shame on all of them too! And I bet most of you who have commented on this message board have one time or another stood by the pond to watch the crocodile being fed. This means that you have contributed to the act and condone the action. We never invited anyone to go feed the crocodiles and never said it was a tourist attraction. We have always warned people of the dangers of feeding these creatures and Debbie took a picture with the crocodile on her own free will. The article quotes – “It is true that these crocodiles are wild animals and the guys that are feeding them make sure that they warn everybody of the dangers of feeding them up close and even touching them. It is made clear to everybody that they are there at their own risk.” Our intention was, that if this practice is still being conducted, that a much safer environment be constructed so that these animals are not hurt and to remove any danger to humans. And the Town Council agreed that the area needs to be safer for people to view these creatures. Aren’t there crocodile farms and zoos all over the Everglades in Florida and other parts of the world? If you take it another way - Mission accomplished! We have given much attention to the situation to have the proper authorities either shut down the operation or create a proper environment for this to continue. Many of you are too eager to crucify people when most of the time you turn a blind eye on things that you are afraid to comment about. Then when somebody else has the courage to do or comment on something you crucify them. If you did not condone the act of feeding the crocodiles, then why did you not say anything before?"

Me(!):-
I'm sorry, I "tuned back" to this thread when I saw that the newspaper was replying. How disappointing that instead of apologising for an error in judgement they have seen fit to try to defend their actions. They seem to think that having those pictures (especially) and the article on the front page of their paper is no great deal. I now really hope that the full force of the law is thrown at them.

Trying to justify it doesn't make it right. YOU printed the picture for all to see. And comparing snorkeling to feeding the crock is lame.

I got nuked, again

Me too! My first time. But I can't find the shirt on cafepress.com.

There are countless threads condemming the feeding of crocs and by far the majority of us have spoken out against it AND refuse to support it by not attending the feedings.

Wut she said. There, take that .

Unbelievable

The speed of a Croc is lightening fast and the size of those crocs indicates that there is going to be a serious incident if this is not stopped.

I have seen multiple attacks on handlers that have handled crocs for years and years and are way more educated in handling than 13 year olds.

one lost his arm
one lost his hand
and the other one lost his life

It looks like it will take a serious incident before this is taken seriously which is a real shame.

The paper used a sensational story to sell newspapers times must be hard for them but at least now the evidence is there to see and hopefully after the police have taken action as it is a serious issue they will change there tune and apologise.

TO AMBERGRIS TODAY
NO- I have never and never will go watch a crocodile feed.
The Dive shop I go with does not feed the animals.
HOW DARE YOU IMPLY THAT WE ALL DO.

Since Ambergris Today removed their ridiculous response, I'll post it:
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If everybody is so ready to shame Ambergris Today, well why don’t we shame all those people who take visitors to Shark Ray Ally? It’s the same thing! Having people interact with wild animals. Clearly many of you speak too fast before reading carefully. We all know that this feeding of crocodiles takes place on a daily basis and many people are carrying tourist to this place. I guess shame on all of them too! And I bet most of you who have commented on this message board have one time or another stood by the pond to watch the crocodile being fed. This means that you have contributed to the act and condone the action. We never invited anyone to go feed the crocodiles and never said it was a tourist attraction. We have always warned people of the dangers of feeding these creatures and Debbie took a picture with the crocodile on her own free will. The article quotes – “It is true that these crocodiles are wild animals and the guys that are feeding them make sure that they warn everybody of the dangers of feeding them up close and even touching them. It is made clear to everybody that they are there at their own risk.” Our intention was, that if this practice is still being conducted, that a much safer environment be constructed so that these animals are not hurt and to remove any danger to humans. And the Town Council agreed that the area needs to be safer for people to view these creatures. Aren’t there crocodile farms and zoos all over the Everglades in Florida and other parts of the world? If you take it another way - Mission accomplished! We have given much attention to the situation to have the proper authorities either shut down the operation or create a proper environment for this to continue. Many of you are too eager to crucify people when most of the time you turn a blind eye on things that you are afraid to comment about. Then when somebody else has the courage to do or comment on something you crucify them. If you did not condone the act of feeding the crocodiles, then why did you not say anything before?

Dorian

p.s. there are many other irresponsible things that people do and everybody accepts it.

Thanks Dutch, shows were their back bone is.

Dorian,

Unfortunately your article does not come across that way and comes across a promotion of the activity. Nowhere in the article does it say that it should be shut down until an appropriate facility has been put in place.

I've been quietly pushing for a regulated environment for a long time through letters to forestry and town council and on this site. Having a regulated site would be a great addition to the town but the situation as it is a tragedy waiting to happen.

What happens now with this article, I'm betting that much greater numbers of tourists are going to head down to see this ILLEGAL ACTIVITY and it's just a matter of time before one of those Crocs whips it's head around and kills someone.

I spent 3 years in the Orange Walk District assisting with researchers from Texas Tech and I know firsthand what a split second of inattention can result in, even from a small Croc. Whether they look tame or not they are instinctive animals and are completely unpredictable, they can move at speeds up to 35mph over short bursts and you wouldn't believe the speed of their jaws when they bite. I've seen Croc's grab jumping fish out of the air in the blink of an eye.

If you wanted to do an expose it should have been on how we can build a safe facility for tourists to view the animals in their environment without interference. A Disney sideshow is not appropriate.

The comments about Shark Ray are not relevant, there is too much of "well they did it so I can" already, you only have to look at the actions of some developers recently to see that in action. It’s time to grow up and get over that mentality and start working towards a better future.

Simon...

"If you did not condone the act of feeding the crocodiles, then why did you not say anything before?"

I have, the board has.

My pleasure IM. That is what they sent to my personal email as a response to my complaint. More than one way to skin a cat...but please don't skin a cat...I like cats. The press has a responsibility, and that was completely ignored in this case. I really hope that some type of fine can be levied against them for this. They can't undo the picture that proves harassment of a protected species.

I just emailed this newspaper; I think anyone else concerned should do so too! I personally am tired of watching this circus show! It occurs most evenings around sunset, south of the Fido's Sandbar. Some nights, there are as many as 7 or 8 golf carts with tourists standing around watching this. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Okay, in fairness, I reposted the response they made, then deleted. That was cowardly, so I posted it again. I also received another response to my angry response to their mindless response, which I post here. I personally feel a little better about them now. From the Ambergris Today paper:
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Maybe the only mistake that I did was not being 100% clear of the intention of the article. In the past i have published countless articles with the dangers of feeding the crocodiles and warned people about doing so and that is why i published this one. To trying to talk to the Town Council to either stop it or create a safer environment to feed these animals, because i see so many tourist going there and endangering themselves. I admit that i did not make this point strong enough, but i surely have in the past. Because weather or not we agree to it, it is still going on. I have never gone to feed these animals and probably should not have taken those pictures (I agree to that), but it seems that it was the only way that I could draw attention to the matter. I agree that feeding these animals is dangerous and should not be done. BUT IT IS BEING DONE! And I wanted to do just that, have the proper authorities create a safer environment, because it is being done.

Dorian Nunez
Ambergris Today

Neecee has obviously only seen the "slow night" shows. Because I have seen 50 - 100 people sometimes.

The croc pond is on my way home. I try to go by quickly and directly. I DO NOT want to be there when something awful happens to somebody. And it is not a case of IF it is a case of WHEN.

If the paper was not trying to encourage this activity why is the last line of the story "when you snap your crocodile shots make sure you tell the guys that Debbie sent you!"

look these crocs have been feed for years and years, without any incidents, that tells me that the odds are something bad is going to happen soon, although i think its crazy for people to do this, THEY STILL DO, even though its illegal, govt can pass all the laws they want but if the don't regulate them then they are merely letters on paper,I'm glad Dorian published the article hopefully it gets the attention of the right people, and the right things get done.people always look for the negative in things
ps: theres only so many places debbie could be....lol

Amanda; you're so right! I too, go by on my way home most nights. As you said, and are absolutely right; there have been huge crowds there! I have never stopped; it's all I can do to drive by! These animals are enormous and seeing a local waving raw chicken in front of them from a fishing pole, is beyond stupid!

I have a good suggestion for Ambergris Today's next week's article: 'Donde Esta Debbie' (since she broke the law this week) --> '¡en el prisión!'. Dumb, dumb, dumb, Ambergris Today! Don't make it worse and please apologise!

Touche Short!

Great here we have three kids that have been entertaing the tourists for the last 10 years and now you lot are bitching-lets see go and stand outside Big Daddy's and complain about the drug dealing the knifings etc. they will move you on very quickly-complain about the burglaries/stand outside the police station and complain about crooked cops-give up your friend for smoking dope-go against crooked politicians-people with no work permits

So because there are worse illegal things going on, we should not care about less illegal stuff?
What this or something worse happens on Ambergris Caye? Should we then also say that Debbie sent us?

Ironically, The San Pedro Sun has been working very closely with biologist and executive director Cherie Chenot-Rose from ACES/ American Crocodile Endangered Sanctuary in Toledo along with Belize Forest Service's Wildlife Officer Mr. Lopez to come to San Pedro to better educate the community on just these issues. We have scheduled a presentation at the Lion's Den on Tuesday night at 7pm and they are to appear on the Reef Radio morning show Wed. AM. Please take a look at the flyer which Marty posted under the "Nature" category.
http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post288158

Shame on Ambergris Today????
come on you guys, you should be ashamed on calling people stupid. I don't think anybody should be called stupid or should be insulted, it is very rude....
If someone makes a mistake or does something wrong in your point of view, it is ok for you guys to talk about it but don't insult them, what are u getting out of it by insulting. We all should work together as a team and not by handling it this way. Thats why there is too much crime in Belize since everything is handled in a negative manner. Be nice and lets work together as a team.

Perhaps we should ask Tropic to put Crocks in their new tank instead of fish?

Throw in a Chicken before each flight leaves?

or a live Chicken, and numbered squares so we can all bet on where it "drops".......

A little something for everyone

"In the past i have published countless articles with the dangers of feeding the crocodiles and warned people about doing so and that is why i published this one."

I will give you that and it's also one of the reasons that this article bothered me so much. When I heard about the pictures I expected that you would not print the article. I was very disappointed when the pictures were printed.

I can only hope that an article will appear in next week's edition clearly stating your intentions. Those ponds will be gone in short time but there is an excellent opportunity to create a nature walk/reserve in the settling ponds. There is significant wildlife in that area that tourists rarely get to see and will both create jobs and enhance the community.

Maybe we should ask tropic to put "Pugwash" on the tank and fill it with water so you can stop talking non sense.

Interesting concept, how about it Pugwash?

Hey Aligator - a little voice of reason. This should not be a witch hunt. We are all on the same team here. Lapse of judgement are made often. It is those voices that are brave enough to stand up and be counted that often fall victim to the many that usually sit in shadows waiting for somebody to pick on.

Whether the Ambergris Today simply wanted to shed light on a seriously dangerous issue, or if the team thought it would enliven the weekend gossip - they have met their goal!

And Pedro1 - you bet that there are many other very serious crimes going on in this town. And all of them need to be addressed - sooner than later.

And WOW about the Caye Caulker croc bite incident.

I often wonder when this will happen to an unsuspecting tourist. At the San Pedro crocodile lake there is a spit of sand where many people stand to look at the croc feeding show - not realizing that there are crocs in the body of water behind them as well as in front of them. I saw a lady yesterday with her child on her hip standing about 60 ft from the lake. Like 60 ft of distance is going to help if the croc decides to launch itself at her.

My daughter did a school project on the crocs recently. They can propel out of the water at 48 mph and they can run short bursts at around 35 mph!!


This is yet another high profile emotionally charged dilemma this growing town is facing.

Hey Aligator (in English your name is spelled Alligator BTW), I just read all 42 responses on this threat very carefully, and there is only one that calls Debbie a stupid reporter - there are more that say they did something stupid which is not insulting IMO. Although your words are very wise, you should read more carefully.

who tells you my name is in English......you see negative response. You all are condeming this girl and the newspaper. Its not fair for you all to be talking this way. Read it all again and see how offensive the responses have been. Anyways...My point is lets work together as a team.

Hey Short - You don't think this is insulting ... You posted it - "I have a good suggestion for Ambergris Today's next week's article: 'Donde Esta Debbie' (since she broke the law this week) --> '¡en el prisión!'. Dumb, dumb, dumb, Ambergris Today!

Dorian Nunez
Ambergris Today

Saying "Well they do it at Shark Ray" is like a kid saying "Well everybody else does it". My mother's response would have been to asked if Little Johnny jumped off a cliff would you jump off the cliff too?

It sounded very much like you were trying to waddle out of getting caught.

While we were on AC we drove by the swamp hoping to see a gator. We did but we didn't get out of the car or even stop.

When we were in the Everglades we took a air boat ride. We saw gators there also. We didn't feed them and the guide said he discouraged anyone from doing it at other times.

The property that I reside has plenty of Crocks. They can be much apprechiated from afar. Having seen a Crock attack a dog in the canal, I know their power and speed...and will never underestimate their amazing nature. Both San Pedro newpapers exploited the death by Crock(?) of my friend, the late Wilbur Blanco. The term Maneating Crock made a sensational headline. Crocks do what Crocks do!!! Enjoy them from afar...they are the closest thing to perfection that has yet been created. I shar wsh Dorian wold hair me ta poff reed...dis il neber hapens ugains.

Has anybody noticed that there has not been the slightest hint of remorse, retraction, or even defence? They're apparently just keeping their heads down and hoping all this will go away. Meanwhile there is an edition out there that in practice lauds and encourages people to tease crocodiles (no matter what the words may say, the pictures say it all). IMO this is absolutely appalling.

The only post this newspaper made here it then decided to retract. There is a simple way of dealing with this - don't buy their newspaper in future.

http://sanpedrosun.net/old/01-492.html

Just a reminder...

Anyone else see the Irony in this exchange?


I then made comments about putting Alligators (2 l's) in the new Tropic tank: My post was obviously tongue in cheek, but the unintended consequences were priceless!


Peoples points of view certainly change depending on which side of an issue they fall

Yes I called her a stupid,reporter I was wrong ,she is not at fault As she has no experanice or traning at what she does and is not a reporter !!!!! .I know her well She is a good person,who thought she was doing something she thought was ok but very misguided,and nieve ..And Aligator it is Obvious she is your co worker or cousin .But the Real Blame is on the newspaper ,as they have no clue about Responable journalism ,and only want to sell add space.My po