Thursday August 28, 2008 - 7pm - Lion's Den

What's the purpose of the hearing?

I heard that the needed permits were already granted. Was this wrong?

Yes, thanks in advance if you can find out what is on the agenda. Their site makes me tempted to write out a check, but I get the feeling it might be premature.

This is all I have so far, from SPBA.

This notice serves to inform San Pedro Business Association Members and the general public that there will be a Public Forum Meeting regarding the South Beach Development Project on Thursday August 28, 2008 at the Lions Den at 7:00pm. Representatives from South Beach Development and the Department of the Environment will be there to take questions. This meeting is important. Please make an effort to attend. If anyone has any questions please e-mail the SPBA.

Just heard on the Morning Show that it has been postponed until September 4th.

yep:

Please be advised that the Developers of the South Beach Development have asked that the Public Forum Meeting originally scheduled for Thursday August 28, 2008 be postponed until September 4, 2008.

We remind everyone that this meeting is very important and that anyone with concerns or questions should attend. Any questions in the mean time can be directed to the SPBA.

So I guess part of the meeting will be on August 28; answers will come later.

Will The Clevelander be open?

http://clevelander.com/home.html

I am wondering when the 83’ long 3-floor 400 passenger Charter Rental, Night Club/ Restaurant & Bar and gambling Casino Boat from The Bahamas is coming to San Pedro. See this post: http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/294381

Is the South Beach project the 600 acres of condos proposed for the swamp at the far south end of the island? The one that proposes to build a town with some 3000 population, and has no drawing plans for a water supply, sewage system, fire department, security force, McDonalds, or other Cuban Cigar store?

Yes it is, but it is from the same developer as Reef Village, where they were going to dock the 3-story Casino Boat, and plumb it into the Reef Village sewer system.

Don't forget to be at the Lions Den at August 28, 2008, 7:00pm with your questions!

Is that the ship listed in the classified for investment?

We received the email about the meeting, but have been out of the country. Would appreciate it if someone could pleast post the pertinent points from the meeting somewhere on the board after it does take place.

"IF" it takes place.

The meeting is NOT taking place on the 28th.

"Please be advised that the Developers of the South Beach Development have asked that the Public Forum Meeting originally scheduled for Thursday August 28, 2008 be postponed until September 4, 2008.

We remind everyone that this meeting is very important and that anyone with concerns or questions should attend. Any questions in the mean time can be directed to the SPBA."

Just wondering if the meeting is still scheduled for the 4th? I am not on the island, but always want to keep up with what's happening as I am sure many others do.

I was told that Jeff Pierce postponed the meeting; is that wrong? So far still on for Thursday night.

This is all pretty interesting. My guess is that the meeting means there are no permits, at least not anymore and this is some sort of public hearing.

Last time I checked he looked shut down except for sand dredging. Anyone been down there?
I bought a Reef Village condo based on the internet though I visited before actually giving him money. If he was selling lots, and I bet he has, and could be proceeding he would be. (He is an effective salesman). That is how he gets more money. He has to develop and start putting up buildings to keep the show going.

I juat love when they announce the hearing in the Thursday paper for that Thursday evening. I'm getting sick of real estate developers and agents selling the beauty of our area for a buck--and one they'll soon take back to their own country. South Beach is such a scam and no one on the island has any regard for the development. It's a bad thing.

Reef Village was built on swampland and the structures are already showing considerable cracking.

Any evidence? Photographs? A statement like this will greatly concern people who have bought and are not here to check for themselves.

If these are your true feelings - make your voice heard. Show up at the meeting on Thursday. Rumbling and grumbling under the surface helps no one. The only voice that gets heard is the one at the meeting.

I am only interested in this as a spectator, a person that loves AC, and as a visitor that has fallen in love with the people and place.

Good luck to all!

Nobody shows up at these meetings because they realize they're not in control. Permits are granted by those in power who are eager to take money into their pocket and sell out their own community. Think of the politicians last election who were giving away property for votes, or paying for travel to get people to vote in their districts. Another evidence, the dredging that was done in front of Belize Yacht Club. Works begun, destruction caused for months, and then it was revealed they had no permits and was shut down. How did they get to operate in the first place. Another example, Sands Villas dumping rubbish for many months as fill which was not only unsightly, but will be a detriment to anyone that buys there as the area settles. People are getting away with what they are allowed to get away with, and it's also at the hands of people paid to turn their backs. I think it's called corruption where I come from.

Then organize outside the meetings and then show up en-mass at the meetings. Make a statement over and over and over and over, when and where it counts and to whom it counts.

i did not drive by this trip, but when i was there in May 08, the blue roofs of the "older" buildings at RV were already badly sun faded and in need of re-painting. we also noted quite a bit of rust run-off staining around the gutter areas (large rust stains running down the buildings). i cannot honestly remember if we noted any structural settlement cracking or not. Bruce does recall noting that one of the footers on a newer building didn't look right to him.

we notice these things as we are in property management and that is what we do. we are not on the island, but anyone is welcome to print out my above statement and attach my name on it.

I think it all gets down to lack of prudence. People are blindsided by the beauty here and so much want to be a part of it that they set reasonableness aside. If I were investing in a real estate project in my area I'd do my research on the developer and once the monies were put down I'd be checking in very frequently to ensure it's continuing according to plan. Anyone who invests here and returns to Canada or the US is only asking for trouble. 1) We're at sea level. The sheer weight of Reef Village is too much for the swampland it is built on. Go 2000 feet from Reef Village, what do you see? Swamp and soft earth underneath. Let's do something intelligent and put tons of concrete on top and see what happens. How is it all these scam artists run around town with free weeks, free lunches, and free tours? They've got to get in buyers real quick! Developer and agent gets their money, and sucker gets to learn Latin: Caveat Emptor!

To everyone EXCEPT boastcameraman:
If you are investing in a place here please don’t let this guy scare you. Do your homework.

People do show up at meetings. So many people were ready to go to the 1st public meeting that was announced regarding South Beach that it had to be moved from the Sun Breeze conference room. Then at the last minute it was cancelled.

Now it has been rescheduled, and then postponed. When/if it really happens believe me the place will be packed. Anyone who talks about "NOBODY CARES" probably is not here.

No - I am not defending Reef Village - I fought the dredging of the mangroves very vociferously and got pounded for it.

Boast - you sound like a guy who got scammed - sorry - but don't try to make the rest of us look stupid!

Nobody shows up at these meetings because they realize they're not in control. Permits are granted by those in power who are eager to take money into their pocket and sell out their own community. Think of the politicians last election who were giving away property for votes, or paying for travel to get people to vote in their districts. Another evidence, the dredging that was done in front of Belize Yacht Club. Works begun, destruction caused for months, and then it was revealed they had no permits and was shut down. How did they get to operate in the first place. Another example, Sands Villas dumping rubbish for many months as fill which was not only unsightly, but will be a detriment to anyone that buys there as the area settles. People are getting away with what they are allowed to get away with, and it's also at the hands of people paid to turn their backs. I think it's called corruption where I come from.

Permits are granted by those in power taking money?????????

......corruption????????????

WOW, I'm SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amanda, Warren and MR Grand Master of _ _ _ will you guys please step in and straighten up this obviously mislead and misinformed chap.

Don't forget to call him a "coward", don't forget to say "we don't need people like you here", please don't leave out "just stay home". And best of all PLEASE don't forget to tell him he's acting like he thinks he's GOD for having and expressing an opinion that may not coincide with yours.

hell really has frozen over - i agree with quite a bit of what he said. tho, as always, i don't live there and have no say.

I don't think there are any real problems with the foundations at Reef village. I think one of the early buildings had a problem that required a repair but the pilings were all driven to rock thereafter. They are not built in soft mud. I think they are well done for the money and Reef village is a nice area. My wife much prefers her Reef village condo to our much more expensive one across the road. The comments about preconstuction financing are good, one must be very careful about it. The legal system in Belize is not the same as the US (thank God) but the buyer has less recourse. I personally feel that there is more corruption in Belize than in the US but far less than Mexico for example.

I'm not convinced the Belize N Us and boastboy aren't the same guy.

Either way, I don't have time for hecklers right now.

And now a word from a 30 year veteran Construction Project Manager who is not making a dollar on any of it. First let me say that where Reef Village is you can build responsibly. But when putting the pilings in to bedrock you really ought to use a pile driver, (2,000 per cost.) to do it. Not your back-hoe going tap tap. Ergo settling. Then once the grade beams, tie beams, drag structures, and shear walls, and slabs are in, use as much stuccoed foam as possible to keep the weight down.

Also let me say for the people who are so concerned about the Mangroves, the ones that truly had a relationship with the reef were the ones many on you removed from the front of the island. The back has mostly black mangrove and practically nothing lives on it. It's like a desert back there. Go see for yourself. It does however protect land from erosion so a good idea to keep it at most shorelines. I personally think building a copy of Southbeach is lame and it would not become bustling like Miami's Ocean Drive. But Marina style communities? By all means. Should have saved the front and done those there in the first place. Mini processing plants are quite capable of handling all the sewer and water needs. When I have gone back there I envisioned the same thing. It's almost there already. When you dredge back there fish show up and we need places where fish can go to spawn and the young can grow. This could be Man assisting rather than hurting assuming it's done right. Go to the back of town mangroves and walk in the shallows. You'll see baby snapper and many more that are in 2 inches of water where it's safe. If I were King I would make the developers provide some area for trees for bird nesting. I live in an area near Marina's Market that has the last amount of trees left to harbor birds nesting and the green iguana's etc. The lots are already marked, sold, and will soon be built on. There are no more areas like it south of the bridge. Say goodbye to many of our migrating birds. Knowledge is Power. We're paving Paradise. All of us. So think, act, or STFU and get out of the way. Last let me say we have an opportunity to be examples of Man coexisting with nature here. Lets not blow it. Has to work, has to pay. Not an easy proposition. But worth it. There are hundreds of islands along this reef. This island is mostly destroyed already. Whatever can be done to help is a plus. Over 80% of the positive relationship between the Reef, Sea grass, and front (red) mangroves had, is non existent. Every camera battery the tourists have brought here since day one that were not taken away by them are in the ground and so groundwater and reef. The ground is toxic. The Bottled water we all get from Bowen's has the number 7 inside the triangle which means it's the one with the bad carcinogen in it. So we're going to see cancer, mercury, and lead poisoning and god knows what else as time goes on. I love it here but sometimes because we want the commerce and don't want to scare it off we don't say things we should. OK. I feel better. Please send any complaints to yourselves. lol

true Lover-you are a 30 year construction manager-for 4 years you have not had a job here -other than living in other peoples houses or attempting to sell property(unsuccessfully)

I thought this thread was to notify us when and where the South Beach hearing is to take place.

I'm sorry. Pedro. Did you actually have something to say or just wanna throw stones loser? Because last I heard if ya know em ya owe em and if you sold all you had you might almost be able to break even. You're just a grumpy old man. Get a life.

oh! all of a sudden a thread is supposed to be what it says it is supposed to be? what a novel idea...

ps - i'll give ya a bz dollar if the meeting actually happens at all.

For a woman who says she doesn't have time for this, she has 2,275 posts. Obviously her real estate business isn't keeping her busy enough. We're all accountable for the destruction and we'll attack a person and call them a complainer. Too bad you didn't raise the flag years ago.

And Truelover, Pedro has now taken a personal attack at you and your character. Petty on his part.

And you think the politicians are bad. Look at the way these attacks are flying around. Nothing will ever get done without actual communication.

BTW, it takes two or more parties discussing (speaking and listening) particular subjects whether in agreement or not for talking to be considered a conversation. Otherwise the speaking is naught but mere banter.

Get it together. pick a side and discuss things properly and publicly.

I'll be there on Thursday to oppose South Beach, and I hope to see you all there, also.

In all honesty, if these are your true feelings/beliefs, I hope you do attend and will be open to true dialog regarding the project. As always, have facts to back your stance as I am sure the "other side" will have a plethora of their own facts and figures.

For all planning to attend: good luck no matter to which side of this issue you may belong. Make sure you are heard and seen.

I'll be there with an open mind. I hope to see some good plans. I hope they're not using that rendering of Ocean Drive still though.

Only if they have mastered teleportation Amanda.

Wow Amanda has 2,275 posts and she has only been a member of this board 8 years that doesn't even work out to one post a day.

If some people spent their energy on working to make things better rather than just boasting about themselves and knocking others down. Maybe some positive changes will happen. I for one will be at this meeting (if it ever happens).

I don't think the mangroves should be characterized as a "desert". I have been there, waded and fished there and bird watched there. It is an excellent rookery and the immature fish populations are good. Do not confuse the whole backside with the mosquito ponds by the road which are cut off from tidal action by prior development and road work. large fish like tarpon will be more visible if canals are put in but to suggest that dredging improves the environment overall is misleading.
The excuse to put that development in should be that the economic needs of an essentially third world country overwhelm the need for strict environmental protectionism. If you are an American and are interested in paradise you like it the way you found it I guess and are therefore going to oppose a huge development like South Beach(unless you are a realtor). Ultimately the Belizeans will decide and many of the ones I know are conflicted. Here is a thought which I wish I could be there to share. Insist on some mitigation or change in the plans to preserve some of the environment as it exists. I know they will not be able to do anything to the mayan site anyway. Maybe make that the center of a preserve. It will increase property values long term anyway. Who says this has to be an all or nothing deal?

Ha ha, I know I was just having fun. Belize N Us has never shied away from confirming his true identity. In my book I consider that to be a very redeeming social skill.

Whew ....

First time to Ambergris Caye in January, 2009 ....

Love the activism (compared to Isla Mujeres, MX)....

This oughta be interesting.

So i guess this means every thread on this messageboard now has to be about you?!?

Not at all, I think the quote below was about people who live there but make their living via the internet and may or may not have a work permit. They may or may not pay taxes to Belize on their internet income. That certainly had nothing to do with me. How about you?!?



" Telecommuting does not exempt one from requiring proper labor and immigration status. Onshore Belize is not a commercial free zone. "


_________________________
Chris Burkey

It's obvious everyone is far too concerned jusifying their own position and agenda by mudslinging to address serious issues pertaining to the environment and the well-being of the community. Activism gets nowhere if all the participants do is attack one another, rather than the issue at hand. The forum is about South Beach. MY concern is that it will disturb the ecosystem and place unreasonable stress on a community that is already struggling with infrastructure. My opinion is that it's solely to the advantage of the developer, and not the community. Stick to the issue.

WTF? i actually think the above statement is right on. go figure.

in addition, with all the shops, eateries and so on planned for SB, i really doubt SPtown will see too much tourist $ from that type of tourist. i believe much of the $ will stay right there in SB.

remember that group who was appalled by the *GASP* poverty in SP? the type of tourist SB may attract might get upset if they get their designer cruise-wear dirty. best to stay on the property where it is sterile & safe. don't bash me - JMO.

Assuming they fly into SP airstrip, how will they get to SB? The road is never good and is often atrocious, and of course it goes past places that these people may find unseemly! Going by boat has its issues too.

Does anyone know if this public meeting will ever take place?

When (if) it takes place, it might be a good idea for board members to wear lapel badges with their AC.COM user names. I for one would love to see some of the people who post here in the flesh!

Amen to boastcameraman; no bashing and focus on the issue!

The proposed project is way too big for the fragile ecosystem we have here. Even when this project is not intended to happen, as many think, it should not be approved.

TrueLover, I seriously doubt that you have really gone into the mangrove to see what's out there. Your claim that the mangrove is like a desert is ridiculous. Ask Esteban to take you out one day. The Mangrove is a valuable ecosystem, and keeps our island alive!

this thread is about a Public Meeting regarding a proposed development on the island. It's not about telecommuting, tax paying or about the axes you have to grind with other board members... please try to stay on topic.

Again, the request to stick to the issue, and two of the recent posters CONTINUE to make digs at others, attacking about "you don't really know the mangroves," or "telecommuting and taxes." No one nothing gets done. You're all too busy attacking one another. No wonder know one wants to get involved or stick their neck out an issue. They're going to get attacked personally about paying taxes, or not knowing the community. Geesh! Okay, it's about South Beach. Stick to it. Good or bad?

From the San Pedro Business Association:

Important Notice and Clarification Regarding South Beach 'Public Forum'

A 'Public Forum' meeting WILL BE HELD at the Lion's Den at 7:00 pm on Thursday September 4th, 2008 (This Thursday evening).

This Meeting is NOT an "Official Public Consultation" that all developer's must hold. It is a general "Public Forum" meeting.

The intention of this meeting is for the Minister of Tourism, Representatives of the South Beach Development and other Government Officials to collect feedback and information from the general public about the proposed South Beach Development project.

This meeting does NOT qualify as an official 'Public Consultation Meeting'. The developers must do that, and will at a later date. The meeting on Thursday September 4th is VERY IMPORTANT however, because there is clearly alot of questions and concerns in the community about this project. It is a critical time to express these opinions, questions and concerns to the Minister of Tourism and other officials.

Thank you for your patience in this matter.