Thank you Tim & Tina for posting construction regulations for AC on your web blog.

Question, below regulations state "no boat lifts". I have seen many piers with boat lifts. I want a boat lift on my pier one day in the future. Is this regulation acurate? If so is this another example of a "law" which is on the books but not enforced.

I'm NOT trying to start another gripe session here. I only ask because I personally want a boat lift. Are they allowed or not is the question. If not then why are there so many currently on the island. And don't try to claim they have all been there a long time as some of them are brand new. Not calling any names but a new condo resort has just built numberous brand new boat lifts.


Pier Regulations

<!--[if !supportLists]--> 1. <!--[endif]-->The length of piers should not exceed 300 ft. measured from the high level water mark.

<!--[if !supportLists]--> 2. <!--[endif]-->No permanent structures will be allowed to be superimposed on these piers other than palapas of dimensions 16ft x 16ft. ; and without walls.

3. <!--[endif]-->Neither restaurants, nor commercial outlets, nor boat lifts nor bars will be allowed in the palapas or on the pier. <!--[if !supportLists]-->


4. <!--[endif]-->The palapas will be allowed to have thatch roofs if necessary

E-mail sent to them.

Thanks Tommy,
We have received more current building information to blog. Tim will find out something ,in regards to boat lifts next meeting. Tim hopes, mid week(Holidays).I will Blog it!
Tina

Thank you Tina.

Jesse posted the email address of the building authority but for some reason then deleted his post????????????????

I sent them an email with this question but did not get a response.

Can't speak for Jesse,maybe made a mistake with the e-mail.Also the reply (hey or nay) would have to come from the committee. Tim does not get much done by e-mail, he achieves more success with face to face approach. He also tries accommodate their time schedule and does not give up if his meeting gets canceled.The most valuable gift Tim has received from San Pedro has been more Patience.

I have high hopes for the planning committee.seriously wish them well,
But .....and you knew there would be one, all this is for naught if they don't enforce. It seems to the the most common problem through out the country in all aspects of laws, rules and regulations. No Enforcement. Do you guys notice the piers, palapas, boat lifts and buildings going up on piers all over the island with out any permits and permissions.
It make me laugh to hear everyone ask what the rules are and how do we get a permit, when the strait truth is just do it. No one will stop you the government is totally impudent when it comes to enforcement but johnny on the spot if they can collect some dough for a permit from people who ask for a permit.

Hi Elbert, I know of many projects that were torn down at owners expense.There are projects also being done that have not got caught.Wonder what would happen if some one called and enlightened the planning committee.Trying to get that project approved after sneaking around the system, is normally painful (costly). Just a observation, things sometimes change.

I hope things change we need good Planning and enforcement. I think part of the problem is remoteness of some of the projects. The committee might should take a regular boat ride around the island.
renegade dredging, construction of piers, sea walls and buildings over the water are common place in the north.

I don't know whether the planning process here was modelled on UK practice, but it's about as corrupt as it can be over there. In a gentlemanly way of course.

Portions of a message conversation between a local and I.


From what document did those mandates come from?
The SP Town Board or the Ministry of Natural Resources?

Came from Tim & Tina's web blog. Tim suppossedly got them from the planning committee.

http://investinbelize.blogspot.com/

The SP planning board has no authority when it comes to piers or anything over the sea.I have installed a dozen boat lifts and was never asked for anything from anyone.
There maybe a new rule I am not aware of-hence I shall investigate.

I should have said Tim got them from the Ambergris Caye Local Building Authority.

Sorry for the error.

These officials don't have authority over this. Those officials don't have authority over that.

You can see where confusion, frustration and potential conflicts are not easy to avoid with the building / development issues.

Pier permits are issued by the Ministry of Natural Resources.
As you can see from the form posted below, one of the documents required by MNR is a letter of recommendation from the local authorities.


************************

Dock application form follows:


MINISTRY OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND THE ENVIRONMENT
PRIVATE WORKS ACT

APPLICATION FOR
DOCK / SEAWALL / RECLAMATION/ USAGE OF RESERVE

Note: All applications must be addressed to: -

Principal Planner
Physical Planning Section
Ministry of Natural Resources

NAME OF APPLICANT: ____________________________________________________

CONTACT INFO: Tel. No.: _______________________________________

Fax No.: _______________________________________

Address: _______________________________________

_______________________________________

Email Address: _______________________________________

NAME OF LAND OWNER: ____________________________________________________

LOCATION OF PROPERTY: ____________________________________________________

TYPE OF PROPOSED STRUCTURE: _______________________________________

Additional Information Required:
Place a checkmark in the appropriate box indicating that the following have been submitted*.

• Copy of Land Document
• Detail Plan showing dimensions of Proposed Construction.
• Sketch showing location of Proposed Construction in relation to property (show location of Existing Docks, if any).
• Recommendation from City / Town / Village Council (which is applicable).


________________________________ ________________________________
APPLICANT DATE

* Application will not be accepted if required documents are not attached.

I'm familiar with the pier permits. I've already been through that successfully. The issue here is boat lifts.

Boat lifts were listed as one of the "not allowed" items for piers per Tim & Tina's blog post from the Ambergris Caye Building Authority.

Pier Regulations

<!--[if !supportLists]--> 1. <!--[endif]-->The length of piers should not exceed 300 ft. measured from the high level water mark.

<!--[if !supportLists]--> 2. <!--[endif]-->No permanent structures will be allowed to be superimposed on these piers other than palapas of dimensions 16ft x 16ft. ; and without walls.

3. <!--[endif]-->Neither restaurants, nor commercial outlets, nor boat lifts nor bars will be allowed in the palapas or on the pier. <!--[if !supportLists]-->


4. <!--[endif]-->The palapas will be allowed to have thatch roofs if necessary

IF there were a cut and dried answer we would have given it to you! Jeez, protocol, regulations and procedures vary from committee to committee.

Town councils throughout the nation are in the process of receiving more authority to govern their municipalities.

This means that in most cases, grey areas will be attended too once the hand-over occurs.

If you hadn't noticed there is some serious "in fighting" going on locally - so the last subject on most politicians minds right now is whether or not to grant somebody the right to build a boat lift on his pier.... some time in the next 3 or 4 years.

Patience is the key in the country. Being loud and pushy is merely annoying.

Amanda it seems you are the one who's lost patients with me.

I was simply asking a question that I'm sure others here also would like to know the answer to. I'm sure I'm not the only potential boat lift buyer on this board.

Rather than considering me to be "loud, pushy and annoying" you should consider me to be concerned about my current and future building projects being in full compliance with local laws.

I see this as an admirable effort to do the "right" thing.

I'm sorry that you find my effort to be in compliance with local laws so annoying.

There is no answer to your question at this time. You will just need to "hang loose" like everybody else.

That would be quite admirable of you.

When there is an answer to your question I am sure that Tina will post it on her blog and somebody will answer your questions here on the board.

Its nice that it says 'required' on the MNR application in reference to a letter of recommendation from San Pedro but the letter from San Pedro can say , No Way do we approve this Plan' and still the MNR can grant the permit. We (San Pedro) have no real authority over how the Belize Government plans to let Ambergris Caye/San Pedro Develop and this is another large problem with the system. It(the plan approval for all that is beach and sea)is legally under the jurisdiction of someone other than the people it effects the most.
I like to think that's what lost the election and things of this nature will change in this new improved administration.
The New Belize Central Government administration needs to clean out some bureaucrats from the old regime or change the rules of the system.

Dear BNU

Please note that a lot of the buildings, boatlifts and structures that are currently on piers have been there for a while and are grandfathered since the new laws have passed.

At this point in time you will not be granted permission to build a boat lift. Unlike your permit for your cart, you will not be able to purchase or pay someone off.

We are a new country only 27 years old. Sometimes it takes a while to get what you need or want. Our government is trying to work things out.

I wish you all the luck in your move down here. I hope that you will be able to build your dream home and enjoy being a productive member of our community.

The law requries that you obtain a permit for construction and use of structures on government land (seabed).
To get a permit, you need to submit a plan.
To submit a plan you need an endorsement from Town Board (amongst other things).

And the logic that follows is:
If TB is not in a boat-lift mood you don't get a TB endorsement, and without an endorsement you cannot sumit and if you cannot submit you won't get a permit and if you don't get a permit it's not legal.

And one more thing - I agree with elbert and amanda.
:-)

"Please note that a lot of the buildings, boatlifts and structures that are currently on piers have been there for a while and are grandfathered since the new laws have passed."

Brand new boat lifts have been built as early as this summer. Is the "new law" newer than this summer?


"Unlike your permit for your cart, you will not be able to purchase or pay someone off."

I don't have a cart nor a cart permit nor am I currently in that process. Were you speaking in general or was that addressed specifically to me?

Asking the same question 15 different times and ways doesn't change the answer - there is currently no answer to your question.

I learned a long time ago that Here it is much easier to apologize for some transgression than it is to ask for permission.

Why don't you do that, and report back here what the outcome is? You may get away with it. Or you may not.

Town council endorsements are not the easiest forms of approval to get in the first place, and with the current state of flux an endorsement would be practically impossible to get.

Have you even tried to apply for a pier permit with boat lift yet? Why not apply and see what your told. At least you will be getting an answer from the horse's mouth instead of the other end - which is where you are situated at the moment.

If you would like to fill in the application form, and provide the plans and other requirements, proof of land ownership etc. etc and get it to me I will be happy to submit your application and get an estimated time frame in which you can expect a response.

You have my office contact info.

Probably not the best advice to give the new kid on the block who is trying to do everything the right way.

Amanda, I didn't ask again. I was resonding to a previous post with a question that was really intended to be a statement.

I posted as a question in order for the previous poster to have an opportunity to respond.

Your position in this matter has been made clear and I think you can just ignore this post from this point foward.

Some builders there don't think a permit request is needed for a boat lift provided the pier permit is given.

This thread has been forwarded to Mr. Winston "Frank" Panton, Vice Chairman of the Ambergris Caye Planning Committee...email: buildingsanpedro@aol.com
You should contact him directly for any further investigation of your "problem".

Thanks Jesse. Mr Panton is in the know.

From Frank Panton:
It is for the good of the community and environmentally sustainable behavior that boat lifts are not wanted. Many people just simply release the waste oils and other unwanted machine effluents into the sea and thus unto the Barrier Reef. Parking a boat over the sea is just encouraging and making this practice much easier and selfishly convenient.
A sensible person would do better to follow the rules than to selfishly test the system.

Well, there you have it!!

Case closed.

Thanks Jess.

There's a big difference in "not wanted" and not legal.

Further development of any type is "not wanted" by some.

Another T-shirt shop in town is likely to fall in the "not wanted" catagory but a person could still legally open one.

I don't see the difference between docking a boat in the water vs docking a boat above the water as far as environmental hazardous liquids go. In fact I would think a boat / motor out of the water would leak less toxic liquids than one that reamins in the water full time.

You're funny.

To be clear -

There is no law for or against the erection of boat lifts. There is however a requirement that the San Pedro Town council endorse and approve applications. Applications must include a structural diagram of your plan. If the current committee does not endorse your application you won't get a pier permit. All pier permits are temporary so if you are deemed to have violated the terms of the permit it can be revoked.

It doesn't seem that the current committee will be endorsing pier applications that include boat lifts - this week.

This could change quite quickly.

Now, are we done?

That comment is about the most uniformed piece of logic I have heard in a long while.
I do not know of anyone who has a boat that has ever taken the boat out of the sea to change the foot oil.
Mr. Panton obviously is not a boat person.
If I had a boat lift I would lower my boat into the water to make it easier to change the oil.
If you were to change the oil on a boat while it is on a lift you would need to get a stepladdder and put it in the sea and climb up to reach the foot.
"A sensible person would do better to follow the rules than to selfishly test the system."
I Say---A sensible person would be better informed before being permitted to make rules that do nothing but show the ineptness of the rulemakers.

Sorry I don't have the time to debate you on this Jesse.
I gotta go install a boat lift.

"Now, are we done?"

Me?

YES.

I'm satisfied with your answer.

A valid use for a boat lift, and the reason I wanted one (but no longer do) is to be able to inspect the hull for damage, and to be able to repaint it occasionally. And if the boat has an inboard engine, any work on the propeller seals is likely to require the boat to be out of the water. I can't think of any benefit in raising the boat to work on an outboard.

The benefits of hoisting your boat on a lift go way beyond working on the outboard. Removal of the engine and the Hull from the water allows for less corrosion, growth of algea, and polutants to adhere to the engine and hull.It also removes the boat from harms way in the event of other boats coming in contact with it( while dockside) and any wave action that may slam it into the dock ( Should a mooring line come undone.)

I can't work on my boat while it is on the lift. I have to get it hauled out for engine maintenance or painting.

Owners of high-performance boats sometimes keep the boat out of the water on a hoist precluding the need to use bottom paint.

That's so true.

The bottom of the boat looks great since it isn't in the water 24/7. I like the added security from damage and theft. And was surprised but pleased that RF&G insurance covers the boat and lift for storm damage.

Well Mr. Jesse--I have a franchise for boat lifts in Belize--I need the work.
Apparently I have some allies?
Plus--I don't have the time to 'badger' anyone.
I leave that up to you retired folks.

I will throw you a bone if you sell one for me. If that is the question.
There is no permit required for a boat lift.
Maybe now it will take a supreme court injunction to prove it.

Now this is just getting silly. Guys take this to pm's if you are going to bicker about stuff that neither of you can effect without real action.

There are no laws against boat lifts.

The Ministry of Lands extends a courtesy to the town council that it doesn't approve pier permits without a town board recommendation. So if the housing a planning committee of the town council doesn't recommend a project it probably won't go through. A pier permit approval requires a sketched plan showing the structure to be built.


"From Frank Panton:
It is for the good of the community and environmentally sustainable behavior that boat lifts are not wanted. Many people just simply release the waste oils and other unwanted machine effluents into the sea and thus unto the Barrier Reef. Parking a boat over the sea is just encouraging and making this practice much easier and selfishly convenient.
A sensible person would do better to follow the rules than to selfishly test the system."

I will say that I totally disagree with Mr. Panton's reasoning against boat lifts. It seems to me that every boat lift I has seen installed on the caye is configured in a way that would make it impossible for work to be conducted on the foot of the engine.

I would challenge Mr. Panton to show us a demonstration of exactly how one would remove the foot and drain the oil while the boat and engine are cradled in the lift. I suppose it might be possible if you were able to stand in five feet of water while holding a 80 lb piece of valuable machinery precariously while you cohorts some how managed to maneuver the necessary bolts - while battling the currents and waves. You don't get to demonstrate this on my engine - I can't afford to have it damaged in such a risky attempt.

Most boat owners are responsible owners. They care for their property and they definitely care about their environment. There are a few reasons why one would own on a boat on this island - 1 - private enjoyment - I don't think you could name a person that loves the reef with diving, fishing and snorkeling that would drop their effluent on purpose into the sea. 2. Business - what fisherman or tour guide would conduct such a practice when the sea provides him with his livelihood.

Installing the lift creates no more damage to the sea bed than is caused when building a pier.

And the part of selfish convenience - what part of my selfish convenience has any impact on anybody else's life? My neighbours did not object to the lift, it hasn't negatively impacted their lives in any way.

A sensible person will test the system if it is not contrary to the Laws of Belize. As it stands the fact that the current committee doesn't want boat lifts isn't a strong enough reason to not appeal this decision at a higher level. A true "system" has yet to be established.

The island is not going to be flooded with boat lifts by any means. The cost for the equipment and the installation is quite high.

If Belizeonbeach plans to make a living selling and installing boat lifts now would probably we a good time to start the lobbying process.

But a court injunction isn't what you should be seeking but rather a ruling.But your best bet would be to explain to the housing and planning committe exactly what the function of a boat lift is, take them to see one, watch it operate and force them to examine the subject from a position of insight and knowledge rather than perceiving a misconception. The housing and planning committee consists of some successful and sensible businesspersons as well as some highly educated members - but as with any subject, if you are not entirely familiar with certain aspects of certain equipment it is quite difficult to make an educated and sensible decision regarding such equipment. If somebody plans to make a living selling and installing such equipment it would be extremely helpful to the committee if you were to provide them with a practical overview for the their consideration.

In the meantime I still contend that it is irresponsible of you to encourage newcomers to disregard the "rules and protocol" of the local authority that governs their new home.

And you guys are worried that boat lifts are not environmentally sustainable?

Sorry I fail to see the connection of 30 ft boat lifts & offshore drilling operations.

Oil spills.

Perhaps boat lifts should be required to have the same sort of emergency oil spill containment equipment on hand as an oil rig...?

Hi bywarren - I've missed catching up with you.

Amanda,

See quote:

At the same time the government allows oil exploration offshore Belize; it is safe to assume that that will cause a multitude of contamination to the sea and the Barrier Reef.

That is where the connection lies between the two subjects. At your service!

Gracias - you know I move slow in the mornings - one more cup and I will be up to speed.

OK Boatowners ------ after last night's rain and today's rain,
do we remember one of the other benefits of having a boat lift ---- like, uh - no bailing and no sinking.
A good night's sleep and no engine damage - not bad!

Yep, that point was the clincher for us.

Red Bull in the morning Amanda.
Makes you want to tell the world to sit up strait and pay attention.

The energy drink Red Bull is under investigation in Sweden after reports at least three people died after drinking it.
The Swedish National Food Administration (NFA) is heading the investigation, and has issued a public warning, telling people not to take Red Bull mixed with alcohol, or after heavy exercise.

The three healthy young people who died are all thought to have drunk Red Bull shortly before their deaths.

Inplub, this info on Red Bull is important to share - please start another thread and get the word out.

I was told years ago by a clinical dietician in a teaching hospital in England that Red Bull was very dangerous for the wrong people to drink, and that it could (again, for people with a pre-existing condition, of which they may have been totally unaware) cause hypertension (maybe stroke etc). And that anyone with pre-existing diabetes should not drink it. She also said that people with undiagnosed or incipient diabetes (and that is many people in middle age) could be tipped over the edge into full diabetes by drinking the stuff.

Essentially the message was that no-one above around 30 should drink it, and it would be better if no-one did at all. Those who do should do so in extreme moderation and should NOT mix it with alcohol.

I followed the message, and I've never tasted the stuff.

It isn't an energy drink as such, but an extreme stimulant. It makes you FEEL you have a lot of energy, even though your body may be on the point of crashing.

Makes me want to build a boat lift....speaking of boat lifts

Actually, if you drink Red Bull you won't need a boat lift - you can do it all by yourself!

Red bull is nothing but A LOT of sugar, caffeine, and something that is taken from Bull urine (made synthetically these days) which is what gives it its name. The swedish thing was years ago I thought. This drink was banned in most countries when it first came out but is now available almost everywhere.

Back to boat lifts...

Urban Legends abound
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull