Fighting for freedom is fine, fighting for Chaney oil is bullship.

That didn't take long!

I agree with pretty much all of the above. Reaper, one thing stood out in your post (to me), rudderless. We are in great need of a real leader, not someone who can pander to the most people. Someone who can take the helm, and not just make empty promises to the most people. The best road is usually not the safe or easy road.

Regarding our current crop of vets, and the respect they deserve. Thank the Viet Nam era vets, who have pretty much taken the helm to ensure no one else will EVER experience the disrespect they did after their sacrifices.

Bless the patriots who fly their flags EVERY day, regardless of who the current administration is. Bless the people who NEVER say "he's not my president", this is our country and it's success or failure is on the backs of all of us. We hang together or we hang separately.

Bless those who accentuate the positive and strive for better, instead of dwelling on the negative and complaining, whining and blaming. We are reaching a point where our obsession with political correctness is bumping up against reality, and guess who is winning?

2Aggies, we too have traveled much and have marveled at how we find (in the US and other countries) how much alike we all are. The good folk are the same everywhere, as are the bad.

Not a rant, just an opinion. To all of those who insist on a "them and us" outlook, try considering it as "us and us".

If you haven't seen this, be prepared to cry.

Three soldiers wrote this song and put slides together in their 'free time'.

My prayers are with you:

http://g.dwgsee.com/wake/index.htm

reaper, I echo your sentiments. I do find it interesting that what you said differs little from what I said, yet the reactions are entirely different - makes one wonder exactly what it is people are reacting to??
Yes, the US has things in its history of which to be proud - also things of which to be ashamed, just like most anywhere else. I too am glad I live in the US; if I wasn't I would move somewhere else - there is nothing binding me to the US other than my desire to be here. But what often doesn't get said, or even recognized, is that the US isn't some distinct entity which operates on its own - the US is us collectively. So when there are bad decisions or abuses or harm done to others, we all bear some responsibility for that. Same goes for the good done by the US.

Really, dcg? I think I know you well enough to know that you don't really mean as long as it unites us accuracy and honesty don't matter. My point is if you want to rally around something good done by your country, why do you have to make something up or exaggerate? Why not be proud of actual accomplishments? Citizens of the US don't need pithy retorts never actually spoken and credited to someone on behalf of US citizens to have something to be proud of. There are legitimate acts of which they can be proud.
Otter, you and I don't agree on politics and probably never will. However, I am becoming increasingly puzzled by your fading ability to accuratly read an opposing viewpoint and respond to it with respect. The US might not have sought to colonize Japan, but you and I both know the US did damage in other ways. Again, my point was not that the US is a horrible country that has done only horrible things. My point is just the opposite - why make up stuff to be proud of? Why not cite legitimate accomplishments? Is that the conclusion I made which you find unwarranted? Or is it my statement that US actions in other countries are motivated by self-interest?
Bobber, you often make a comment after something I post which I don't take to be a direct response to my post. That is certainly the case here, as I know you didn't read me to say it is self absorbed for Americans to be a proud of their country.
Dutch, being a patriot and patriotism are not the same thing. I doubt that many know what the word patriotism actually entails. Sometime for fun take a look at where that word comes from - and I'm not talking present day usage. As I am every bit as American as you, I still enjoy the freedom to "look down my nose" at whomever I choose. However, for the record, I wasn't looking down my nose at you. I think the sentiments you sought to bring about in your initial post are admirable. My point was that I just don't think you need inaccurate and/or false quotes to accomplish that goal. I specifically said I didn't think you knew the quotes weren't accurate - you simply passed on something you read elsewhere.
Now you want to propose that I had to be present when the other statements in those quotes were allegedly made to show that the quotes aren't accurate? You're teasing, right? Again, all I'm suggesting is that if you want to encourage others to rally around something -anything - do a very tiny bit of research to verify its legitimacy. It's not that hard, really and it vastly improves credibility.
No "lumps" or "slams" are being handed out here. I just think that with this topic, as with any other, it serves us all much better to be accurate and honest.

today is the first chance i've had to read these posts. i am continually impressed by the way some of you find the words to express you thoughts with such meaning. i see what each of you says.

LA - you always really make me think, and reconsider what i think i know. this is a good thing. thanks for all the fact-checking.

mikey, canam - yup - me too. reaper...you continually get my attention when you speak. i so often feel what you feel, and it is nice to have someone around who can say it better than i can.

thanks everybody.

Reaper..ya gotta run for office.

Leah Ann, that post was a response to a direction, not a response to your post in particular. Over the past few years, I have seen many posts here decrying American patriotism, and glorifying patriotism of other countries. It seems the "ugly" Americans are fair game, anti-Americanism from all quarters (including internally)is in vogue.

The small part of me, the part I keep hidden, wants to scream out "the next time your neighbors or your own people start killing you, or a typhoon devastates your country, or a disease epidemic or famine hits you, go whine to someone else who is probably in no position to help you".

"Really, dcg? I think I know you well enough to know that you don't really mean as long as it unites us accuracy and honesty don't matter. My point is if you want to rally around something good done by your country, why do you have to make something up or exaggerate? Why not be proud of actual accomplishments? Citizens of the US don't need pithy retorts never actually spoken and credited to someone on behalf of US citizens to have something to be proud of. There are legitimate acts of which they can be proud."

That is true. But at the same time, let it (the quote or misquote) read what it will and let it go. I know that you love fact finding and I commend you for that, but at the same time I am not one to “pick apart” anything for the truth….in the sense of phrases, folksy stories or other such things. Since I am not representing anyone in court I don’t feel the need to get to the cold hard facts of the truth in a statement, but instead I just read the “meaning” for which the author is trying to convey. This is just me and my opinion. No hard feelings, but I’ve got my own way of thinking and voicing my observations.

LA, how do we all bear responsiblity for bad decisions, abuses or harm done to others? That is a huge fallacy to me. Personally, I do not take responsibility for anyone's actions other than my own.