The presidential campaign, now in its final week, has reached a level of passion and acrimony almost unheard-of in Iran.
...

Many people say a critical moment was last Wednesday’s nationally televised debate, in which the president opened with a furious attack on Mr. Moussavi. Mr. Ahmadinejad seemed to spare no one, accusing his conservative and liberal opponents of being corrupt.

But the most shocking thrust, to some viewers, was when he held up a document with a small picture of Mr. Moussavi’s wife, Zahra Rahnavard, and asked him in a derisive tone, “Do you know this woman?” Mr. Ahmadinejad then accused Ms. Rahnavard — a respected professor of political science — of entering a graduate program without taking the entrance exam and other, lesser violations of university policy.

On Sunday, a visibly angry Ms. Rahnavard held a news conference in which she threatened to sue if Mr. Ahmadinejad did not apologize within 24 hours.

“The way the president insulted me was an insult to everyone,” Ms. Rahnavard said

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/world/middleeast/08iran.html?_r=1


===================

Iran's 'Macaca' Moment? Ahmadinejad's Rivals Circulate Video Highlighting His Bizarre "Light" Claim

A 2005 claim by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that a "light" surrounded him during a U.N. address was mocked Monday by his main pro-reform opponents in the latest barrage against the president's competence and another sign of the bitter tone dominating the election campaign in its final days.

...

Reformists _ sensing that Ahmadinejad's once-formidable lead has evaporated _ have increased their attacks seeking to portray him has erratic and eccentric. Ahmadinejad has struck back with accusations that Mousavi, who served as prime minister in the 1980s, is part of a clique of corrupt leaders who put their own interests ahead of the country.

The current reformist salvo is a video clip sent by e-mail and on CDs of Ahmadinejad telling a top cleric, Ayatollah Abdollah Javadi Amoli, that a "light" enveloped him during his address to the U.N. General Assembly in 2005 and that the crowd stared without blinking during the entire speech.

"A member of the (Iranian) delegation told me, 'I saw a light that surrounded you,'" Ahmadinejad said. "I sensed it myself too ... I felt the atmosphere changed. All leaders in audience didn't blink for 27, 28 minutes. I'm not exaggerating when I'm saying they didn't blink. Everybody had been astonished ... they had opened their eyes and ears to see what is the message from the Islamic Republic."

The clip was released after Ahmadinejad on Saturday denied making the comment.

Mousavi's daily newspaper, Kalemeh Sabz, or Green Word, said in a front-page report that Amoli's office confirmed the video is authentic. The headline called it Ahmadinejad's "halo."

Mousavi accused Ahmadinejad of being "superstitious" and "brazenly staring at the camera and telling lies to the nation."

On Saturday, Ahmadinejad said inflation stood at 15 percent, but Mousavi showed a report released by the Central Bank of Iran indicating it stood at 25 percent.

"Why do we lie to people? Why do we give people wrong information? Is this to the country's benefit? Is gaining the presidential chair worth lying to people this blatantly?" Mousavi said on Sunday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/08/irans-macaca-moment-amhad_n_212654.html

Well then, he might not win with Saddam's usual 100%, let the guy have a few votes to make it look legit, but he'll win big.

I was curious if this meme was making the rounds of other leftie sites, and sure enough, from Democratic Underground:

"...Apparently, they heard the President in Lebanon and Iran as well...President Bush with his Axis of Evil bluster has been replaced by President Obama with his clear diplomatic message of resolve and hope. It seeems as though an American President may be affecting the Iranian elections again, this time positively. From the recent polls it looks like Ahmadinejad is in trouble. His main opponent, Hussein Moussavi, is a reformist who is running an Obama style campaign attracting a huge youth surge. Moussavi stands for equal rights for women and decries Ahmadinejad's foreign policy as "adventurism, illusionism, exhibitionism, extremism and superficiality." In this election, Obama appears to be helping the candidate who is real relations to America. The American President is a role model instead of a straw man.

Likewise in Lebanon. As the New York Times reports, until recently it seemed as though the Iranian backed Hezbollah party would win the majority. Now it looks as though the coalition that is more favorable to America will retain power.

We don't know the exact effect that Obama is having on these elections. But it appears from the 2004 results that the Cheney/Bush presidency bolstered the enemies of America. Four years later it looks like the Obama's presidency may do the opposite.

Americans would do well to remember this four years in the future in our own elections in 2012."

-----------------------------------------------------------

The light thing is subject of another thread there as well. The trouble with this is, it happened in 2005. Everyone's known about it for 4 years.

The other problem with the above analysis is, if they are going to give Obama credit for the Lebanon elections, they have to be consistent and blame him if Ahmaninejad gets "re-elected".

Besides, the analysis is flawed. The Lebanon elections brought back to power the supporters and son of the assassinated popular (and Bush ally) PM Hariri.

this is about IRAN. not the usa, not obama. IRAN. Iranian politics.
and thats eh-RAHN
not EYE RAN

the halo quote might not be new to google, but it sure it new to have it splashed all over Iranian TV and being used against the President, Mr. I'm a dinner jacket

The source seems questionable to me.

Agreed. Nice to see I was right, too. Obama's hands off attitude about commenting on the election is strange. He initially said it would be seen as meddling, but Iran today accused the US of meddling anyway. In the meantime France and Germany's leaders have condemned the election as a fraud.

There are two possible outcomes in Iran now. The regime may succeed in crushing the opposition, enhancing its own power at the expense of whatever pretense of legitimacy it might have had a week ago. Or it may fail to do so and be weakened or overthrown. The free world has every interest in encouraging the latter outcome, and someone ought to bring the leader of the free world up to speed on the events of the past few days.

I wonder how Americans would feel about Iran meddling in our politics? There is no "leader" of the free world.(except in the arrogant minds of a few)

How about the oppressed people of Iran? Who looks out for them, particularly the women? It seems pretty certain that the military dictatorship has faked the election to give itself credibility. Do we just abandon all these decent people (which is what the majority of Iranians are) to indefinite tyranny?

I think it's time the EU put their money (and men) where their mouth is.

There are poor and oppressed everywhere in the world. I dont know that pretending america is the beacon for freedom and then imposing that view on independent nations is prudent. History would support the idea that the usa interferes with national elections on a regular basis; to boot, the middle east is prime real estate for US politics at this point.

And to the idea of 'faked' elections, we need look no further than the USA for that. To believe america is free of fraud is self-imposed blindness.

"There is no "leader" of the free world."

Well, since his election, you're right.

But I see he agreed with me and not you and began "meddling" today. I wonder of the US House's 405-1 vote yesterday to "meddle" had anything to do with it. His own party was wondering when he was gonna say something.

And Ron Paul being the only sound vote of the bunch. Is there any doubt that the US 'wants' war with Iran?!

Ron Paul appears to be the only sane voice on many fronts these days.

I don't necessarily think it's meddling for a country to voice its opinion on human rights issues, but this vote served no altruisitc purpose.

We (the US) voiced our opinions and thousands died in the streets in Hungary: we voiced our opinions and thousands died in Czechoslovakia, in Cuba, and more recently in Kurdish Iraq.

I have little praise for Obama’s domestic policies, but he has to play this carefully ....the wrong words can easily be interpreted by the protesters as a sign the 101st Airborne will be arriving shortly, and who ever ends up in power, we as a nation have to deal with them, even as they chant “death to America” over their morning coffee.

Muktah Al Sadr is currently exiled in Iran, and it was his departure that led to a more peaceful Iraq: his return would fire things right back up again….. diplomacy always involves trades off

The recent elections were never going to take power away from the Mullahs, and although a Moussavi victory would have made many both inside and outside Iran feel better things were to come, Obama has to show restraint, despite congress’ saber rattling show of self promotion: remember, they voted on over 45 separate things on Friday, a new one day record, and almost a quarter of all of their work this session, including an apology for slavery that is already being decried as not enough by those seeking reparations, and also not to investigate the CIA-Nancy Pelosi “misunderstanding”, so lets not get too excited.....they have to be able to point to something when seeking re-election

This is a video made by a friend. It was made after she heard that One of the goals of the protesters is to get as much footage and pictures out into the world at large as possible.

To this end, I'm passing the video along. Note that there are images of violence, so if you are upset easily I just felt I should warn you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIbOozRAiIw
Its traveling the internet circuit.

Maybe not in practice, but that wish appears to be what's behind the demonstrations. No wonder the "authorities" both suppressed the true result of the election and were quite prepared to suppress the resulting demonstrations with whatever force/brutality was necessary. This junta has as much right to rule Iran as the Taliban did Afghanistan. The thing is, how will they be removed, because they sure as heck aren't going to give up gracefully.

Could it be that witnessing free elections in Iraq and Afghanistan has emboldened the population of Iran, the vast majority of whom are under age 30, to ask for more democracy in their own country?

Many will speculate that this scenario, and not oil, was at the root of the previous administrations mid eastern policy?

Unfortunately, as long as the guns are in the hands of the tyrants, they will cling to power, and only when the Revolutionary Guards waiver in their support of the Mullahs will the tide turn.

2nd amendment apologists would do well to bear this in mind.

It does look like the more affluent, more educated Iranian youth manifest the greatest protest to this regime. They say the western dress and make-up only come off when a plane begins to descent to Tehran. Ahmadinejad was once like them.

So far you are the only one I know that would suggest President Bush was a visionary! A more likely notion, based on 50 years of US foreign policy would be the policy of containment.

This is one Fox and CNN are not showing but talking about.
You really might not want to watch it. its a voting protester shot and bleeding to death, rumored that 200 have been shot but news says 17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmi-LePl894

Seriously? You should try getting your news somewhere other than MSNBC

For the "primitive" country of Afghanistan and then Irans neighbor to the west also to have free democratic elections while the US maintained a military presence along both of their borders was destined to inspire thoughts of a true democracy rather than a theocracy amongst the people of Iran.

America will not jump in with anything other than words supporting free and fair elections, and Israel will have to be extremely careful not to offer direct support for fear of allegations against the Zionists, which would bring the rebellion to a screeching halt!

For the only (potential?)nuclear power in the region to become more of a Western Style democracy, and cut back on funding to Hezbollah and other terrorist groups due to an internal uprising would be a huge and vindicating act for Bush's Foreign policy.

I have a T shirt I can send you

http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=4495148&pid=10412721&myphotos=1

It was his domestic agenda that sucked

PS....While we frequently use any and all subjects to spa with each other over political philosophies, we should all be wishing and hoping for the safety of those who are risking their lives for the freedoms we often take so for granted

While I agree with Pug's sentiment, I don't want to be there when you two spa with each other, over political philosophies or anything else!!!

"For the "primitive" country of Afghanistan and then Irans neighbor to the west also to have free democratic elections while the US maintained a military presence along both of their borders was destined to inspire thoughts of a true democracy"

democracy at the point of a gun. not a new concept for americans...i guess with enough fire power you could get any countries citizens to rise up...ask Fidel.

its repugnant that one might think a country 'primitive' simply because they do not embrace McD & credit cards (ie fiat capital)or ones personal belief system.

primitive might be the unwillingness to accept a country for who they are allowing them to grow into who they want to be. Primitive might be to turn a blind eye to the 'real' reason we are even discussing Iran - democracy? how about territory and diminishing resource. Primitive might also be that EVERY country that allows US corp. into its boarders is pillaged of resourced in the name of 'tech advance & democracy'...

primitive is a mind-set void of sovereignty and fueled by ego.

advancement only comes when we accept our position and that of our neighbors. there is a reason crosses dont burn on front lawns anymore; its the same reasons women acquired a vote in the 50's...thoughtful self-perspective towards the rights of individuals.

Artorious
Maybe primitive means that they have little freedom, education system for only a few and a criminal system which is carried out in the street by stoning.

If you are so unhappy, I take it from your profile that you are an American, maybe you should move over there. I would rather have McD and credit cards to the life which most of these people have to lead. In addition before our guns displaced the guns which had controled things, things where much worst. The great Satan has freed more people than any other country in the world.

God Bless America

Great satan...
sorry friend...Christianity has displace more nations and people than any other evoke name history - intelligent review of history does not support you claim. I could list many nations and peoples...but we'll will start with Native 'American' Indians.

The point being made was that they (Iranians) have the sovereign right to work through their issues free from outside interference. They have the right to 'evolve' in any direction their people choose. We too stoned ppl in the streets and we too over came tyranny...because they dont do it on a timeline or scale that befits you(americans) - DOES NOT MAKE them primitive.

The second point, what has fiat capital and McD's done for america? Most obese nation in the world - fact. Fiat capital has and will indentured generations into poverty - Fact.

The third and final point, Iran has been like this for years, 1000's of years. They are a thriving nation, a nuclear nation, with independent commerce. Now Corporations needing to leave USA for 'greener' lands need to egos of the american people to do it (ie young american soldiers - "the intelligent ones" as was stated above). Egos - christian and the like will kill thousands...you say for freedom of democracy - Truth, so corporations can plunder resources of once sovereign nations - historical FACT.

Lastly, you shouldn't tell me about me. You should stick to the topic and deal with the issues of Fact & Fiction. Remember you believe in free speech (so long as it agrees with you). The very minute you attack my person, simply says you cannot support your claims. (so you address the person and not the issue). And therein, I must infer 'the Great Satan' is anyone who lives or see life differently than you - that is Ego.

You sound very unhappy with your situation in life and the country you live in. I was trying to help with a suggestion. The previous paragraphs doesn't require an answer I'll let the rest of the board think about them. And yes you have a right to your wacko leftist’s views even if they differ from mine.

If you will, notice that I put "primative" in inverted commas?

The 70% majority of Iranians under the age of 30, most of whom are city dwellers, and who think of themselves as more modern and less tribal & agricultural in their self identity would consider Afghanistan as a less evolved culture would they not?

The stoning of women, and treating them as chattel is less prevalent in Tehran than under Taliban rule is it not?

These are the voters who reject Ahmadinijad and are seeking true democracy, and I believe that free elections in Afghanistan and Iraq have emboldened them


Like in the evolved country of Afghanistan , you mean

You know, I'm coming more and more to feel that Iran is going to develop its nuclear weapons and it is going to use them. The rulers there have shown themselves to be utterly ruthless in retaining power - they're now talking about "legally" executing anyone who challenges their position - and no excess seems to be beyond them. Even Russia, which initially publicly expressed its congratulations and support for the election "result" are now backing off. The major world conflict has been for centuries Islam against everyone else (despite the weasel words they utter about peace and friendship - just look at their actions) and in the 20th century it was slowly coming to a head. I'm not talking about the masses, because even more than Germany in the 20's and 30's these people have shown themselves to be very easily led, even if straight over the nearest cliff - I'm talking about the people in charge. Now there exist weapons with a destructive force utterly unimaginable prior to the 20th century, and these maniacs have access to them. Of course they're going to get them, and of course they're going to use them. Unless they're stopped.

Peter, excellent and I agree. Now is the dilemma. The US is or was the only country willing and able to stop them. Yes, Israel could inflict great damage but only if we support them. Democracy in the region especially the bordering countries would help. It is important that some form of democracy succeeds in these countries and Iran to stop the nuts. The future does not look good right now but I guess things can change.

Again...
where is the diplomacy in...'they're going to use them' - 'their utterly ruthless'...'their weasel words'...'these maniacs'...'unless they're stopped'

If one was to extract their emotion and focus on the goal - would more be accomplished?

If american freedom represents anything; does it not represent sovereignty, diplomacy, and mutual respect? Or is it true that americans motto is ''might is right'. Might being is right who can fault anyone for being mighty?

Im only trying to say that throwing diplomacy off the table in favor of ..."unless they're stopped"...is an act of the very same evils one would hope to prevent. We (humans) have to learn to live peacefully among people with different values and beliefs.

We have to step back...get rid of the rhetoric and rationalization (of FOX MSNBC CBS) and plot a course that allows us to maintain American values. Now is not the time to give into fear and rationalized actions...This is what got us into Iraq "they HAVE weapons of mass destruction"...or do they...
Who is being lead so easily?

Why is it today - NOW - that the american media is obsessed with Iran? (is it that we have troops bordering them on both sides Iraq and Afghanistan?) Is it that our economy (dollar) is failing? That they (powers that be) dont want us to focus on troubles of our own?

Im a fan of syntax (not for the 'proper' usage)its a truth teller.

One should not commit the lives of men if one himself is not willing to make the same sacrifice for the same cause. And Right Now - the media is building momentum through fear (repeat of Iraq and WMD).

ps. side note
two phrases my son will/has never heard from his mother & father:
"do as i say, not as i do" & "because I said so"

Ragman,

As a chess player, I must say you hit the nail on the head.

the first strike will be Israeli. That being the shot to drive US into the fight they are begging for.

For some its a game, for others its their lives.

Neville Chamberlain lives and walks among us!!

Artorious

Do you believe that Iran provides support to organizations such as Hezbollah, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad?

Yes \ No

Art, I have no problem with talking with them. The problem I have is people who do not recognize that some people are evil and have no redeeming qualities. When these people are in charge of a country all bets are off. I would respect them and leave them alone if they will respect me and my friends alone.

It is my understanding that the leaders are threatening to execute in the street, protesters. Does this sound rational or could this be called evil?

You ask me if I 'believe'...you want to sanction the death of thousands on what is 'believed' or what is 'known'?

Its not as simple as black & white. Do you believe america sponsors rebels in other countries? see that is a question history as already provided the answer to...I believe history repeats itself like insanity.

Do you 'believe' steel melts at 2500 degrees F, or do you know? because that is a question science has/can provide the answer too...the melting point of steel can be measured and known.

dont ask a man what he believes, ask a man what he knows; one is empirical proof one is pudding.

I suspect the first statement is a product of religious ideology. And I believe - 'no men are born evil; thereby, every man is redeemable.' I 'believe' the holy one Jesus might echo my thought or I his...

To the second statement - I too would protect the ones I love. As should you, dont send my son to do your dirty work. So if war breaks out in Iran are you going?

Interesting that one might bring up nazi supporters in this conversation...

Would you 'believe' that Hitler was TIME man of the year?
Or did you 'know' that he was. "for better or worse"...(ie in the face & with the knowledge of his actions he was honored-shame more ppl didnt speak out then).

Who support did he have to acquire to achieve that?!

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauMemorial/TimeCover.html

What I find more interesting is how 'generic labeling' makes for the 'appearance' knowledgeable men.

I asked you a simple question and instead of answering it or even ignoring it you start making outrageous claims. Without a single bit of evidence you question "you want to sanction the death of thousands on what is 'believed' or what is 'known'?"

The question itself is as simple as Yes or No, black or white unless you afraid of the answer.

See, let me show you

Q - Do you believe america sponsors rebels in other countries?
A - Yes

Steel is not a pure element so you cant give a melting point, it would have a range based on content and would certainly not be exactly 2500F

As far as Hitler being person of the year I don't even understand what your point is. Several infamous people have been named to the list such as Joseph Stalin (twice) and oddly enough Ayatollah Khomeini who led the Iranian Revolution

Art,

I've already fulfilled that obligation with two tours in Nam that I volunteered for. I've already informed my son what is expected of him and I'm sure he will do what he has to do if necessary. Last Thursday I spent 2 hours with my daughter in an Army Recruiter's office. I don't think she was too impressed by what he had to say but she is considering it.


I lead by example also.

Art,
Neville Chamberlain was most decidedly NOT a nazi supporter. He just diddn't have the stomach to oppose them with the needed force. Perhaps the simile struck too close to home . . .you did in fact immediately pick up on who I was referring to.
I have no problems with pacifists. I do have a problem with naive pragmatists.

KC - if your post was not an attempt to humor at my expense, please do tell. Had you even posted prior to that?!

S- are you serious about steel...I mean seriously.


Other than that the conversation is going astray...
If you cant defend you position attack the individual himself...typical american politics.

Heres a truth none of you can dance around...you want war with Iran...its in your language...you've convicted. And worse yet, every single one of you will be no more involved than an arm chair quarter back. While others die for your entertainment (mostly your egos), you'll be eagerly flippin back and forth between FOX & CNN like it was a week day soap show. Cheering with your pop corn and soda. the last game you won too and youre still scoring points. score: you 4237 me 0. I stink at this game.

Yes, Art, I posted before. Scroll up and pay attention. There is humor in your question.

And I don't want war with Iran or anyone else. I opposed our Iraqi debacle. But I also believe that there IS in fact evil in this world, and pacifist platitudes will not make it go away. And while I freely admit that, at 56, I am not likely to have to shoulder a weapon, I would do so in defense of my home. It may not be comfortable for you, and you may be right about the futility of it all; but if the nuts with the nukes ever pop 'em loose, you and the rest of the righteous will fry with us uncleansed. Game, set, match.

art -- I respect your point of view and my libertarian roots find me much more aligned with your thinking on Iran.

However, be careful. Those that I know engaged in this thread would not take any pleasure in any armed conflict with Iran. From my reading, calling you a Neville Chamberlain does not warrant the sweeping indictment of all Americans that are fearful of a nuclear armed Iran. The majority of right-leaning Americans I know (maybe because I hang in more learned circles) are genuinely thoughtful individuals who feel America's position of strength comes with responsibility that is not taken lightly or with any note of sadism.

The funding of Hammas and Hizbollah, arming Shia insurgents in Iraq, and calling of Israel "to be wiped from the map" are all valid grounds to argue for the possible forcible disarming of Iran.

However, I would urge more caution than most on this board, and I favor open diplomatic ties with any sovereign nation. Unlike others here, I see no weakness in the desire for open dialogue and do not think it necessarily means there are any concessions to be made. I would have voted with Ron Paul in the House against the congressional Iran resolution. The U.S. has created far too many of its enemies in the world today. Now is the time to begin a humble foreign policy that is light on the moral outrage and saber rattling.

KC- This topic has run its course for me. Your conclusions about my person are a figment of your thought process...

Its not that I lack the 'stomach' for war...Its not that I'm a 'pacifist', for you are wrong on both counts. As you stated, in defense of my values where they are stripped I will fight. I understand the scope of my abilities and my powers.

I think the difference is simple...If I am a poor swimmer I will not jump in the lake to save a drowning man. I am responsible to my hierarchy of values; not life in general, as an altruist might perceive. I believe there is intrinsic value in human life. I am responsible to such value; to the extent that, the intrinsic value doesn't compromise my hierarchy.

I be believe in sovereignty, freedom & respect...as those values pertain to America, democracy and the constitution - that is where I stand. Not as a bystander. Ron Paul symbolizes my democratic values(as in democracy not democrats) quite nicely.

Has 56 years of politicking not been a learning experience? Has Iraq & Vietnam not taught the tricks of the powers that be? Their still counting bodies in Iraq and yet with no affect on the populous, the lessons are ignored. The difference between Wisdom and Knowledge is lost in america - the new wisdom is zealotry. What you perceive as cowardice is truly rational stoicism.

Final comment: No where in nature is life owed. My freedoms are not my debts - freedom is my right. Freedom is the right of the individual, not the granting of a country by its populous. Freedom is not a buy-product <play on words) of a culture - Freedom is a realization within the man themselves. Therein, is the difference between a slave and a free man.

With respect to all, I resign from this discussion. Should we ever meet in person, I will greet you with a smile and a dinner.

ps. Share food get closer.

If war "breaks out" it will not be in Iran. It will be in other countries and sponsored by Iran.

I think it is more likely than not that Iran will develop both a nuclear capability and a suitable delivery mechanism, simply because that is what the Ayatollahs seem bent on doing and unless they're stopped that is what will happen - they are a wealthy country with many very highly educated citizens. The question is, what happens then?

Do we believe the dictators be be stable and capable of stable decisions? I suggest that even a brief examination of what is going on inside the country, and the leadership struggle that's going on at this very moment, suggest that the country is far from stable. So, an unstable and extremist authoritarian dictatorship with the ability to launch nuclear missiles .....

What do we do?

Art, If you tried not to blame America for everything wrong in the world since Columbus arrived on its shores your points of view would be a little easier to digest.

Have you sent a letter to the President suggesting dinner with the leaders of Iran? You may be on to something.

I think you guys are little rough on our new friend. Respect for the autonomy and sovereignty of other nations is an American trait that's been forgotten by many. There's a difference between "blaming" America for the ills of the world, and understanding where our choices were wrong.

You all can debate which is which in this case, but art seems pretty cool with me -- maybe it's because I am a Ron Paulite as well.

"if war breaks out in Iran are you going?"

President Obama is not going to go to war with Iran. Can't believe you even said that.

And if war does break out, it will be Iranians declaring war on Iranians. You know that. Whose side will you be on, the regime or the revolutionaries?

The link posted has nothing to do with the quote you reference as far as I can tell. The video is about a journalists claim concerning a war game scenario that written then rejected by the Bush Administration.


edit, added 'about'

'War game' thats one way of looking at it.

Like the 'war game' scenario the pentagon put out about a plane hitting the trade centers with plans years before it happened? Or like the 'war game' scenario that was taking place in NYC the day before/day of the 911 incident?

The video denotes that attempts/plans are and have been made to enter US into wars with Iran. One might claim that Obama administration is 'totally' different than a Bush administration-only in prima facie.

Its obvious from an objective stand point that the plan has been set and now only remains the means - this video is just another bullet point to keep in mind as the evidence of pre-mediation comes into view.

Let me get this straight. Are you a proponent of the conspiracy theory that says we blew-up our own planes on 9/11 or were aware of the exact nature of the plot and purposefully let it happen?

We didn't land on the moon either. All a big cover-up.

And then there was the great special effects for the "Mars Rover"!

I dont know anything...
I do know using the term 'conspiracy theory' shows bias.

But allow me to ask...

Is that EXACTLY what happened with Pearl Harbor? that is we were aware and let it happen. Or how about the Lusitania? I'd say 1st time accident, 2nd time plan and 3rd time a program.

Anyways: Keeping in topic...
I C the Iranians handled their demonstrations nicely themselves. When the police came to beat them they asked them for help(in chant)...I thought that brilliant. Glad to see cooler heads prevail - better than hot heads with flyn lead.

Looney tunes

The US and UK are proposing reducing their nuclear stockpiles in the hope & belief that it'll discourage the Iranians (and North Korea) from developing their own. I don't think they understand the mentality of the mullahs.

If we just nuke everyone except the UK, US and Belize, then life would be so much simpler.

anyone have a phd in mullahs from FOX news!?!

Americans are NOT stupid with subtitles...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNHs0tYv_-I&feature=related

I agree. He sounds completely insane.

By 'sounds' you mean your not listening or refuse to listen, right.

At lease when a shrink pronounces you insane, he invites you in sits you down then listens to you for hours. You know to get perspective.

No insults meant just my failing attempts at humor.

ps. so US decided to 'release' their diplomatic prisoners yesterday(Iranian Diplomats)and allowed them to return to their country...did I read that right? Funny usually you hold the Dips. in custody during a war or the threat of a war. Odd way of being diplomatic, would ya say?

Did you know that days before the bombing of Hiroshima & the other one...Japanese diplomats were already in Washington DC with a treaty of surrender...but the powers that be decided it best for humanity to see what happens when an Atom bomb goes off in a city. AND IM INSANE!?!? true story.

Of course, in 1941, Japanese diplomats were also in Washington with offers of further negotiations while their strike planes were already in the air heading toward Pearl Harbor. Could that be why they weren't quite trusted?

Don't feed the troll.

skippy you are a funny little man. You constantly strike people at a personal level w/o ever given content to any topic subject.

so believe me im laugh at you when you call me 'troll'...
A troll is not someone with a difference of opinion a troll is someone who constantly post for attention...and more often than not post to offend individuals...who post in multiple topics in the same manner.

Unlike you I can back up what I believe with 'some' type of facts/history. You attack the person you converse with because you cannot support or express your opinion.

SO troll on troll.

well you make an argument...but based on your stand with Iran...I fail to see how you personally condone the act...

Those bombs didnt kill hundreds of thousands military...they kill mostly the same type of people rioting in the streets of Iran...women and children...(in other words, they werent tactical strikes...they were vengeance strikes).