Seriously? You should try getting your news somewhere other than MSNBC

For the "primitive" country of Afghanistan and then Irans neighbor to the west also to have free democratic elections while the US maintained a military presence along both of their borders was destined to inspire thoughts of a true democracy rather than a theocracy amongst the people of Iran.

America will not jump in with anything other than words supporting free and fair elections, and Israel will have to be extremely careful not to offer direct support for fear of allegations against the Zionists, which would bring the rebellion to a screeching halt!

For the only (potential?)nuclear power in the region to become more of a Western Style democracy, and cut back on funding to Hezbollah and other terrorist groups due to an internal uprising would be a huge and vindicating act for Bush's Foreign policy.

I have a T shirt I can send you

http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=4495148&pid=10412721&myphotos=1

It was his domestic agenda that sucked

PS....While we frequently use any and all subjects to spa with each other over political philosophies, we should all be wishing and hoping for the safety of those who are risking their lives for the freedoms we often take so for granted

While I agree with Pug's sentiment, I don't want to be there when you two spa with each other, over political philosophies or anything else!!!

"For the "primitive" country of Afghanistan and then Irans neighbor to the west also to have free democratic elections while the US maintained a military presence along both of their borders was destined to inspire thoughts of a true democracy"

democracy at the point of a gun. not a new concept for americans...i guess with enough fire power you could get any countries citizens to rise up...ask Fidel.

its repugnant that one might think a country 'primitive' simply because they do not embrace McD & credit cards (ie fiat capital)or ones personal belief system.

primitive might be the unwillingness to accept a country for who they are allowing them to grow into who they want to be. Primitive might be to turn a blind eye to the 'real' reason we are even discussing Iran - democracy? how about territory and diminishing resource. Primitive might also be that EVERY country that allows US corp. into its boarders is pillaged of resourced in the name of 'tech advance & democracy'...

primitive is a mind-set void of sovereignty and fueled by ego.

advancement only comes when we accept our position and that of our neighbors. there is a reason crosses dont burn on front lawns anymore; its the same reasons women acquired a vote in the 50's...thoughtful self-perspective towards the rights of individuals.

Artorious
Maybe primitive means that they have little freedom, education system for only a few and a criminal system which is carried out in the street by stoning.

If you are so unhappy, I take it from your profile that you are an American, maybe you should move over there. I would rather have McD and credit cards to the life which most of these people have to lead. In addition before our guns displaced the guns which had controled things, things where much worst. The great Satan has freed more people than any other country in the world.

God Bless America

Great satan...
sorry friend...Christianity has displace more nations and people than any other evoke name history - intelligent review of history does not support you claim. I could list many nations and peoples...but we'll will start with Native 'American' Indians.

The point being made was that they (Iranians) have the sovereign right to work through their issues free from outside interference. They have the right to 'evolve' in any direction their people choose. We too stoned ppl in the streets and we too over came tyranny...because they dont do it on a timeline or scale that befits you(americans) - DOES NOT MAKE them primitive.

The second point, what has fiat capital and McD's done for america? Most obese nation in the world - fact. Fiat capital has and will indentured generations into poverty - Fact.

The third and final point, Iran has been like this for years, 1000's of years. They are a thriving nation, a nuclear nation, with independent commerce. Now Corporations needing to leave USA for 'greener' lands need to egos of the american people to do it (ie young american soldiers - "the intelligent ones" as was stated above). Egos - christian and the like will kill thousands...you say for freedom of democracy - Truth, so corporations can plunder resources of once sovereign nations - historical FACT.

Lastly, you shouldn't tell me about me. You should stick to the topic and deal with the issues of Fact & Fiction. Remember you believe in free speech (so long as it agrees with you). The very minute you attack my person, simply says you cannot support your claims. (so you address the person and not the issue). And therein, I must infer 'the Great Satan' is anyone who lives or see life differently than you - that is Ego.

You sound very unhappy with your situation in life and the country you live in. I was trying to help with a suggestion. The previous paragraphs doesn't require an answer I'll let the rest of the board think about them. And yes you have a right to your wacko leftist’s views even if they differ from mine.

If you will, notice that I put "primative" in inverted commas?

The 70% majority of Iranians under the age of 30, most of whom are city dwellers, and who think of themselves as more modern and less tribal & agricultural in their self identity would consider Afghanistan as a less evolved culture would they not?

The stoning of women, and treating them as chattel is less prevalent in Tehran than under Taliban rule is it not?

These are the voters who reject Ahmadinijad and are seeking true democracy, and I believe that free elections in Afghanistan and Iraq have emboldened them


Like in the evolved country of Afghanistan , you mean

You know, I'm coming more and more to feel that Iran is going to develop its nuclear weapons and it is going to use them. The rulers there have shown themselves to be utterly ruthless in retaining power - they're now talking about "legally" executing anyone who challenges their position - and no excess seems to be beyond them. Even Russia, which initially publicly expressed its congratulations and support for the election "result" are now backing off. The major world conflict has been for centuries Islam against everyone else (despite the weasel words they utter about peace and friendship - just look at their actions) and in the 20th century it was slowly coming to a head. I'm not talking about the masses, because even more than Germany in the 20's and 30's these people have shown themselves to be very easily led, even if straight over the nearest cliff - I'm talking about the people in charge. Now there exist weapons with a destructive force utterly unimaginable prior to the 20th century, and these maniacs have access to them. Of course they're going to get them, and of course they're going to use them. Unless they're stopped.

Peter, excellent and I agree. Now is the dilemma. The US is or was the only country willing and able to stop them. Yes, Israel could inflict great damage but only if we support them. Democracy in the region especially the bordering countries would help. It is important that some form of democracy succeeds in these countries and Iran to stop the nuts. The future does not look good right now but I guess things can change.

Again...
where is the diplomacy in...'they're going to use them' - 'their utterly ruthless'...'their weasel words'...'these maniacs'...'unless they're stopped'

If one was to extract their emotion and focus on the goal - would more be accomplished?

If american freedom represents anything; does it not represent sovereignty, diplomacy, and mutual respect? Or is it true that americans motto is ''might is right'. Might being is right who can fault anyone for being mighty?

Im only trying to say that throwing diplomacy off the table in favor of ..."unless they're stopped"...is an act of the very same evils one would hope to prevent. We (humans) have to learn to live peacefully among people with different values and beliefs.

We have to step back...get rid of the rhetoric and rationalization (of FOX MSNBC CBS) and plot a course that allows us to maintain American values. Now is not the time to give into fear and rationalized actions...This is what got us into Iraq "they HAVE weapons of mass destruction"...or do they...
Who is being lead so easily?

Why is it today - NOW - that the american media is obsessed with Iran? (is it that we have troops bordering them on both sides Iraq and Afghanistan?) Is it that our economy (dollar) is failing? That they (powers that be) dont want us to focus on troubles of our own?

Im a fan of syntax (not for the 'proper' usage)its a truth teller.

One should not commit the lives of men if one himself is not willing to make the same sacrifice for the same cause. And Right Now - the media is building momentum through fear (repeat of Iraq and WMD).

ps. side note
two phrases my son will/has never heard from his mother & father:
"do as i say, not as i do" & "because I said so"