KC - if your post was not an attempt to humor at my expense, please do tell. Had you even posted prior to that?!

S- are you serious about steel...I mean seriously.


Other than that the conversation is going astray...
If you cant defend you position attack the individual himself...typical american politics.

Heres a truth none of you can dance around...you want war with Iran...its in your language...you've convicted. And worse yet, every single one of you will be no more involved than an arm chair quarter back. While others die for your entertainment (mostly your egos), you'll be eagerly flippin back and forth between FOX & CNN like it was a week day soap show. Cheering with your pop corn and soda. the last game you won too and youre still scoring points. score: you 4237 me 0. I stink at this game.

Yes, Art, I posted before. Scroll up and pay attention. There is humor in your question.

And I don't want war with Iran or anyone else. I opposed our Iraqi debacle. But I also believe that there IS in fact evil in this world, and pacifist platitudes will not make it go away. And while I freely admit that, at 56, I am not likely to have to shoulder a weapon, I would do so in defense of my home. It may not be comfortable for you, and you may be right about the futility of it all; but if the nuts with the nukes ever pop 'em loose, you and the rest of the righteous will fry with us uncleansed. Game, set, match.

art -- I respect your point of view and my libertarian roots find me much more aligned with your thinking on Iran.

However, be careful. Those that I know engaged in this thread would not take any pleasure in any armed conflict with Iran. From my reading, calling you a Neville Chamberlain does not warrant the sweeping indictment of all Americans that are fearful of a nuclear armed Iran. The majority of right-leaning Americans I know (maybe because I hang in more learned circles) are genuinely thoughtful individuals who feel America's position of strength comes with responsibility that is not taken lightly or with any note of sadism.

The funding of Hammas and Hizbollah, arming Shia insurgents in Iraq, and calling of Israel "to be wiped from the map" are all valid grounds to argue for the possible forcible disarming of Iran.

However, I would urge more caution than most on this board, and I favor open diplomatic ties with any sovereign nation. Unlike others here, I see no weakness in the desire for open dialogue and do not think it necessarily means there are any concessions to be made. I would have voted with Ron Paul in the House against the congressional Iran resolution. The U.S. has created far too many of its enemies in the world today. Now is the time to begin a humble foreign policy that is light on the moral outrage and saber rattling.

KC- This topic has run its course for me. Your conclusions about my person are a figment of your thought process...

Its not that I lack the 'stomach' for war...Its not that I'm a 'pacifist', for you are wrong on both counts. As you stated, in defense of my values where they are stripped I will fight. I understand the scope of my abilities and my powers.

I think the difference is simple...If I am a poor swimmer I will not jump in the lake to save a drowning man. I am responsible to my hierarchy of values; not life in general, as an altruist might perceive. I believe there is intrinsic value in human life. I am responsible to such value; to the extent that, the intrinsic value doesn't compromise my hierarchy.

I be believe in sovereignty, freedom & respect...as those values pertain to America, democracy and the constitution - that is where I stand. Not as a bystander. Ron Paul symbolizes my democratic values(as in democracy not democrats) quite nicely.

Has 56 years of politicking not been a learning experience? Has Iraq & Vietnam not taught the tricks of the powers that be? Their still counting bodies in Iraq and yet with no affect on the populous, the lessons are ignored. The difference between Wisdom and Knowledge is lost in america - the new wisdom is zealotry. What you perceive as cowardice is truly rational stoicism.

Final comment: No where in nature is life owed. My freedoms are not my debts - freedom is my right. Freedom is the right of the individual, not the granting of a country by its populous. Freedom is not a buy-product <play on words) of a culture - Freedom is a realization within the man themselves. Therein, is the difference between a slave and a free man.

With respect to all, I resign from this discussion. Should we ever meet in person, I will greet you with a smile and a dinner.

ps. Share food get closer.

If war "breaks out" it will not be in Iran. It will be in other countries and sponsored by Iran.

I think it is more likely than not that Iran will develop both a nuclear capability and a suitable delivery mechanism, simply because that is what the Ayatollahs seem bent on doing and unless they're stopped that is what will happen - they are a wealthy country with many very highly educated citizens. The question is, what happens then?

Do we believe the dictators be be stable and capable of stable decisions? I suggest that even a brief examination of what is going on inside the country, and the leadership struggle that's going on at this very moment, suggest that the country is far from stable. So, an unstable and extremist authoritarian dictatorship with the ability to launch nuclear missiles .....

What do we do?

Art, If you tried not to blame America for everything wrong in the world since Columbus arrived on its shores your points of view would be a little easier to digest.

Have you sent a letter to the President suggesting dinner with the leaders of Iran? You may be on to something.

I think you guys are little rough on our new friend. Respect for the autonomy and sovereignty of other nations is an American trait that's been forgotten by many. There's a difference between "blaming" America for the ills of the world, and understanding where our choices were wrong.

You all can debate which is which in this case, but art seems pretty cool with me -- maybe it's because I am a Ron Paulite as well.

"if war breaks out in Iran are you going?"

President Obama is not going to go to war with Iran. Can't believe you even said that.

And if war does break out, it will be Iranians declaring war on Iranians. You know that. Whose side will you be on, the regime or the revolutionaries?

The link posted has nothing to do with the quote you reference as far as I can tell. The video is about a journalists claim concerning a war game scenario that written then rejected by the Bush Administration.


edit, added 'about'