It appears jhill and H20 gave-up on trying to argue the last thread, so I'm going in for the kill.

Not only are there tremendous cost savings -- prices will drop -- when you allow the market to price healthcare services and return catastrophic health insurance to its rightful place, but look at the following...




More Canadians die of heart attacks on average than Americans
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2004/09/20/heart_canus030920.html

We have the best practices in the world -- once you get sick. Some call this "disease care" instead of healthcare and I can see their point.

Where the system is broken is on issues of preventative care. Infant mortality, rates of cardio-vascular disease, and other general health related problems in the U.S. are unaccptable. We are far worse than other industrialized nations.

It's clear that lifestyle issues and preventative care are amiss in the U.S. How do rectify this without condemning more people to death when they contract a disease like our friends with socialized medicine?

Driving down the cost of preventative care so everyone can afford it is not a political issue -- it's a moral imperative. We can do this two basic ways.

1) Provide universal coverage for all preventative care. This ensures everyone has the same access to pre-natal and general diagnostic services. Problem is, if a problem is diagnosed, you have a greater mortality rate due to rationed healthcare.

2) Mandate catastrophic coverage so we do not lose our superior system in the U.S. for treating diseases and ailments. At the same time, make neo-natal care and other preventative care affordable so it can reasonably be paid out-of-pocket by 90%+ of Americans. For all others, ensure medicaid and medicare are solvent and truly make preventative care a priority.

I, for one, would rather be forced to pay for an annual check-up than told I need to go home and wait in line for treatment if I get cancer. If made affordable in a true market system, I think most other Americans would feel the same way if they truly looked at the facts.

We have an opportunity for a unique American solution to this problem. I refuse to believe we have to sacrifice the U.S. position on the cutting-edge of medicine in order to cure our problems with access to preventative care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXQbmZxWYY

Congressman Ron Paul on Healthcare

"Armstrong said access to specialists, who are usually found in regional centres, is part of the reason why fewer Canadians receive the more invasive treatments.

One critic of the study pointed out it was based on research conducted more than a decade ago on 23,000 Americans and almost 2,900 Canadians."

Otter, this study is 10 years old and as suggested the method of treatment has changed over those 10 years. Also the distribution of people over a vast country must have an influence on how soon the patient gets to a cardiac care unit. Sure people in the States can get care quicker but that is due to the population distribution not the fact that some of them pay for their health insurance. Maybe a comparison with the UK, France or Germany would be more appropriate since they would have population densities closer to the US.

Canuck,
You're not going to muck up this discussion with facts again, are you?

canuck -- that is valid. I admit where statistics only tell part of the story.

I'll see if I can find some more pure data. Any feedback on the cancer statistics?

It's okay jhill -- you have some catching-up to do on "facts" over two threads now. Take your time. Of course, you could just call me an ideologue and disappear again.

If you haven't yet -- watch the video from iluvbelize above. It makes the point I was making in the other thread about how corporate healthcare is a symptom of the government disease in healthcare management.

and... the condensed question, Why should I pay for your healthcare? Or.........
You think healthcare is expensive now? Just wait till it's free!

Cancer survival is always dependant on early detection which in turn would be influenced by the ability of the patient to seek early diagnosis and treatment. Again population density would play a role. Another factor maybe the predominance of certain types of cancer in a population which would be dependant on diet, lifestyle, workplace etc. Canada is a major producer of uranium and uranium mining is a known cause of lung cancer. Unfortuantely a date is not supplied for that study. Funny that the rate of survival for women is almost the same as in the States but for men signifacantly different. Does that imply that men in Canada get poorer health care than women in Canada because they receive gov't health care or could it be a result of the types of cancer Canadian men get ???? One thing to consider is that the rate of survival for women in both countries is almost the same yet the cost of attaining that survival in Canada would be MUCH less than in the States. Another aspect of survival would be that the cancer would have to be diagnosed and then treated if in the early stages where treatment is an option and the outcome then followed for 5 years. I would think it unlikely that those without health insurance in the US would be diagnosed early and treated (agressivley or not)for a cancer and then followed. As a result those people would not be included in this study. Yes I agree, statistics tell only a part of the story.

The answer Rykat is that in Canada we look after our own! We believe that health care is a basic human right and apparantly Canada is not alone in this way of thinking since all industrialized nations have various forms of national health care. You pay for my education, my social security, my incarceration, my safety etc. why should my healthcare be any different? If you examine the billing schedules in Ontario you will find that the cost for medical procedures is significantly lower than the same procedure in the US. If it wasn't then the provincial Gov't would be making a profit on our illness. Trust me that is NOT happening...

I was not seeking an answer NC.
Healthcare is a basic human right? No thanks! Keep it up there please! We believe freedom is a basic human right and I prefer the freedom of NOT paying for your healthcare.