While a recent post on the HOT Discount Card has now been moved to the Specials area (I assume because the initial post was for specific offers), I believe the ensuing discussion that took place on the "value" of the HOT discount card for potential travellers should be an open discussion for anyone to contribute their views and experiences on - just as other businesses, whether they be hotels, restaurants, stores or service providers, can be recommended or otherwise on this forum. I am therefore opening this thread with that thought in mind.

The HOT Discount Card is a development of the coupons that previously featured in the HOT Guide (which we also produce) and operates under the same premise as any other discount card/club/store. etc. That by joining together each member can benefit from greater savings than they would individually.

Take for example the case of Costco. By actively joining Costco, its members are confirming their intention (it is only an intention at this point as they are under no obligation to buy) to consider the products that Costco sells. Costco in turn, with a high volume of POTENTIAL customers, can negotiate with suppliers and manufacturer to achieve the lowest price, and so deliver on their promise to the customer who continue to be members and shop at Costco over the years. And the manufacturer/supplier, by selling to Costco in high volume, benefit from increased market share and potentially reduced costs (more efficient production, lower distribution costs, etc.).

A local here in Belize, may choose to regularly shop in a particular store, frequent a particular restaurant or fly with a certain airline, and in return that business may choose to reward their regular custom and loyalty, in the form of say a cash discount, a free drink with their meal or some other means. A visitor, whether they are here for a few days, or visit several times a year, does not have the opportunity of building such a relationship. But by becoming a member of the HOT Card, they COLLECTIVELY bring increased business to the companies involved, who in turn choose to reward that increase in business with lower prices and special offers. A win-win situation.

Does this penalize the single traveller? Certainly not, if anything they stand to gain more. Say a family/group of 6 are looking to take a trip to Lamanai, they can probably get a deal with the tour operator because there are 6 of them. The single traveller does not carry this negotiating clout and will probably have to pay the advertised price. But as a member of the HOT Discount card, the discount has already been negotiated for them and is guaranteed. Of course with some of the cheap drink offers you are encouraged to drink "for two" but you are on holiday after all!!

All the businesses participating have signed agreements for the offers they are making (one of the advantages of working in a small community I guess!) so there is no confusion on the part of the business owner, their staff or the cardmember. They also agree that the discount is as good or better than they are advertising anywhere else.

At the end of the day whether the card is of value is determined simply by whether you intend to purchase from the businesses involved. Your don't join Costco and then do your all your shopping at Target!

I was a little surprised that when I tried to post to that "Specials" thread I was not allowed to.

I regret to say that I view this card much the same way that I viewed Green Shield stamps when they were all over the place in Britain a couple of decades ago. Shall we say I'm not convinced of their worth?

I remember saving these as kid. My dad would get them with the purchase of petrol and as he couldn't be bothered sticking them all in the books would give them to me. They had a great range of toys!!!!

I think the Hot Discount Card is a great idea and if I was a visitor I would certainly investigate the savings and discounts available. EVERYBODY loves a deal, a little discount, a perceived savings.

My business didn't advertise with the Hot Discount Card simply because it isn't practical for our industry - but if I were in retail, or owned a restaurant/bar or dive shop I would be all over it.

As I said previously..

I don't know how much they are asking to purchase one of those cards, but here in the US there is a similar "card" called the Entertainment Book. It's like $50 or so and gives discounts on the local area. Schools often use them as fund raisers. However, when I worked in the hotel business, the Entertainment Book would consistently advertise a discount at our hotel that we didn't offer. We would sometimes accept it anyway if occupancy was really low, but it irritated us to no end.

Not saying that the Hot card is anything like that, but I am always very skeptical of such offers.

And to add...

My wife almost always ends up buying one of those Entertainment Books under the guise of supporting our local schools. In every time she has purchased one, we never used it once. As such, I usually find deals like this a waste of money. Given the fact that you can negotiate the same deals with many of the same businesses (as per Tim), the value seems very limited.

Regardless, for the traveler who remembers to bring their card with them everywhere, and remembers to present the card, and happens to be at a location that accepts the card, and is too timid to ask for a discount themselves, this is probably a good deal.

"However, when I worked in the hotel business, the Entertainment Book would consistently advertise a discount at our hotel that we didn't offer."

As the business owners specify their discount (and can update online) that would not apply in this case.

I travel with a family of 5 and sometimes 12 when we add grandparents etc into the mix. With a group of that size these discount coupons can become very valuable and provide great savings.

Yes,you have to remember to carry the card and also tell your server or the teller about it before you begin enjoying the services or goods - but that really isn't a big deal.

Maybe the Hot Card could provide a lanyard with the card attached so folks can just hang it around their necks on display! Ohhh and the lanyard could advertise my business! Cool, I'm gonna call Phil and Marie right now.

I wasn't saying that the Hot card was as disreputable as the Entertainment Book, only explaining why such cards have such bad reputations.

Entertainment Book's reputation will sully that of the Hot card for those who know about Entertainment's reputation.

Oh Simon, HotCard, sorry to have to disagree with you but I have to as a single traveler. I studied this card to see if it would be something I could use enough to make it actually pay for itself.

Hotels: already have my hotel arranged, but I think since I travel off-season mostly, I could probably get a very good discount working with a hotel directly (as I have in the past). I don’t see anything that says that the HotCard would give you the best deal at any of these Hotels.

Restaurants: OK, 10% off, well maybe that’s $3 for me. Bars: Free drink with purchase of food. (Can’t use the purchase 2 lunch/dinners get ½ off appetizer or buy 1 dinner get the 2nd half off, etc.). As I get older, drinking noon and night (and an occasional morning) is not my theme anymore. There’s enough entertainment without me being part of it.

Tours: Book 2 full day tours and get a ½ day tour free. Well, even if my budget and vacation time allowed for that (and you need to factor in which days the tours go out, and weather issues), I wouldn’t just stick to 1 Tour Company. I would want to “spread the wealth” and support many businesses.

Lagniappe Provisioning (you know I’ve used you several times): free delivery for orders over $500. Well, as a single traveler that’s usually my budget for the whole visit for food and drink. Can't really take advantage of that as a single traveler.

So, as a single traveler, I do not feel this card is worth it for me. If I traveled with someone, I certain would consider it. As I suggested, offer the single traveler an equivalent coupon. Example: Buy 1 dinner full price get the 2nd dinner ½ off OR 25% off a single dinner.

Some of the businesses who have offers in the HotCard are not familiar to me, so this card, even though I will not be purchasing it, has give me some recommendations on who to check out when I visit in 2 weeks.

Oh, and I am a Costco member and purchase certainly things (including gas)which are in sizes suitable to my way of living. Oh, and I also shop at Target. And that’s the point – choices.

This is of course my opinion and experience.

When purchasing any kind of discount card/book/membership one has to be committed to using it. Personally I really like most of the ones I have but I also use them to my advantage. (My Gold C book that costs $10 annually has paid for itself many times over) It would be advantageous however for the single traveler to receive a benefit as well. Hopefully the participating merchants will add a "single purchase feature" so everyone can enjoy the HOT CARD.

"Oh Simon, sorry to have to disagree with you but I have to as a single traveler. I studied this card to see if it would be something I could use enough to make it actually pay for itself."

I can't see anywhere that I said that. All I pointed out is that false advertising is highly unlikely with this card.

Not sure why Simon was thought responsible for this but I still maintain there is value for everyone. Without mentioning any particular companies there are several offering a straight 10-15% off all diving, snorkeling & tours, so you can pick and choose who/when you prefer. The discounts on hotels are year round not just off-season when many offer specials. If your budget for food and drink is approx $500, then with 10% discount in the wide variety of restaurants and/or grocery stores you will have paid for a one year card right there. There is a straight percentage off flights throughout Belize year-round.....

I could go on, but I think the issue here is not that you are getting less value as a single traveller, but that the discounts offered do not meet your style of vacation and therefore you will not get the full savings the card can offer. A single person who wants to go diving, visit the jungle, try lots of restaurants etc., may have a different opinion.

Like you say, it is all down to personal choice.

OK, for some reason, Simon, I thought you posted the initial post. My HUGE apology. So, my comment was directed to HotCard. Who, I might add, has been throwing in plugs for the card everywhere possible.

HotCard - why not take my suggestion and offer a comparable coupon for singles? These types of offers always cater to couples/groups.

You obviously haven't traveled alone to understand my point of view, and you don't know me to be able to say what style of vacation I take (which varies tremendously depending on location).

Gela, you are correct that I don't know you and so I apologize for any assumptions I may have made on your vacation needs, which I based on your earlier comment on this post and the examples you gave.

The discounts are offered by the companies involved and so it is not up to me to decide what is offered - I simply provide the vehicle, the HOT Card. I can communicate your thoughts/views to those businesses, but I cannot guarantee this will change what offers they make.

Yes, I have posted regularly on the forum with regard to the card as I feel would-be travellers should be aware that they can save money on a whole range of goods/services. If someone is asking about golf cart rental and I know they can save 10%, then I think they should be told - and as I have that knowledge I guess it is me doing the telling. If you knew of a discount I am sure you would post it on the board so that everyone could benefit. Before advertising/posting on this site I did check with Marty on whether passing on such knowledge would be ok and of benefit to his readers.

I travelled alone for business purposes for many years before moving to San Pedro, and yes I hate the fact that a single traveller always gets the small room (have you ever checked the fire exit plan to see that not all rooms are equal!!), or the table in the far corner probably by the kitchen door! But I also understand that I am dirtying the same sheets as two people, that I want someone at the front desk at all times, for someone to deliver my room service when I call, that I want my waiter to keep checking back on my water glass, or that it takes the same amount of gas and time to cook my one steak as the four for the family seated next to me. My needs/demands, and therefore the overheads incurred by any business in serving me, are not in direct proportion.

I believe that someones decision on whether to purchase the card, or not, should be driven simply by whether they will save money using it, which applies whether there is 1, 4 or 20 of them travelling.

The problem is that in San Pedro, price is more a recommendation than an absolute. Your golf cart example is an interesting one because I've personally received huge discounts on carts just for asking. At Moncho's I've received nearly a 40% discount just for telling them that I can get the same cart at Cholo's for a lower price. They matched that price and went down even further. Had I just handed them the HOT card, I would have lost on the deal... assuming they accept the HOT card. Not sure if they do.

Regardless, I do wish you well. I don't wish any entrepreneur ill. We are what make the world tick and our success generates wealth for others.

I don't know your business model, but I'm assuming that you take a payment for the card, which in turn pays for the marketing materials. Again assuming, but businesses likely sign up for free and offer the discounts for the right to be included in the marketing materials. Whatever is left over is your profit.

Assuming that is correct, your motives are not altruistic. You run a for profit business who's sole purpose is to drive paying customers to other for profit businesses. Making statements like "If someone is asking about golf cart rental and I know they can save 10%, then I think they should be told" comes across like someone who is trying to use altruism to justify a for-profit venture. That in turn comes across as seriously disengenuous and reminds me way too much of scams using similar business models here in the US.

I don't think you are offering a bad product and from the sound of it the participating businesses all know what you are offering and willfully participate, so the impression I'm receiving from your posts is almost certainly offbeat.

If I could offer up a little advice... maybe think about refining your message and delivery a bit. Downplay any altruistic message unless you are operating as a non-profit with 100% of proceeds going to some charity. If you are non-profit and support charity with 100% of the net proceeds, then explicitly say so and you will do much better. But don't confuse the message if you are not. Play up the voluntary participation by businesses and be very upfront about the cost of the card (nowhere to be found on your front page). Justify the cost as part of your marketing message with all the great discounts you offer, but don't hide it. It looks like you have something to hide.

And finally, when posting to the groups, continue to be an active participant by answering questions and making helpful suggestions, but tone down the sales speak. You run the risk of turning people like me off from your message. Instead leave your profile icon and your post signature to speak for itself. You don't need to promote your card in every response, but every non-promotional response that you make can be a promotion with a well thought out signature on your account.

Take my advice or leave it. Just a recommendation to prehaps help your PR a bit. Good luck and I wish you much success.

Deadsearious, you are correct in your assumptions on the business model and I genuinely appreciate your comments and advice.

deadserious: I agree completely, and I'm dead serious when I say that.

When Hot Card first started advertising here I clicked on "view profile" and though I figure most people on AC know the individual "graphic designer" who set up a membership with the Hot Card name, my first thought was why the profile was not more transparent. The main drawback to this kind of scheme is not knowing if you get the same quality and service when the merchant knows his margins are reduced. When Burger King offered a free sandwich with the purchase of a Coke and fries, college kids noticed the food quality was much better if they didn't mention the coupon. Eventually BK refused if the coupon was not mentioned with the order. Seniors Citizen discounts are notorious for this (no discount is worth it if one ends up having to negociate the price of a taco after it's been consumed.) You have to wonder too about entreprenuers that discuss their businesses and services online with strangers.

In England you can negotiate the price of a new car, but they will always ask if you're trading an old one in. If you say "no", then change your mind after they've quoted you a price, they'll always withdraw and raise their price.

No such thing as "free". "Included" is more like it.

I have a trick there. I go to a dealership to look for the car that I want and tell them I'm not trading in. After I get a price in writing, I leave.

I then come back another day and deal with a different sales person or go to another dealership (if the car company is a one price company like Saturn or Scion). I look at a much more expensive car and tell them that I'm going to be trading in my car. They give me the tradein value calculated on what they want me to pay for the higher priced car. Then at the last minute, when we're happy with the negotiated price for the tradein, I tell them I'll take the cheaper car, show them the quote and thank them for the generous value on my tradein car.

We bought a Scion xD like this after getting the tradein quoted on a Prius. We made an extra 5k on the value of the tradein over what a different dealer wanted to give us on the Scion xD. Worked out very well and I actually felt like I won for once.

The funniest thing was the look on the sales persons face when I said we'll take the xD instead. He said, "Don't you want to test drive it?". I replied. "No thanks, it's a car, how different could it be."

We just got back last night and found the hot card to be very useful. Tropic air took 10% off the price of all 4 tickets I was the only one with the card. Right off the bat that was a $48 savings. Used it at Rum and Cigar shop no problem and a couple of restaraunts. We have already made our money back. My only suggestion would be to have the people who are participating have a sticker or something in the window. Some places kind of looked at you funny when you asked about it even though they are listed. For such short money did not push the issue.

Hope you get more participants and thanks for dropping it off at Reef village for our arrival

Glad you found the card of value and I am actually in the process of printing up window decals and stickers for the businesses that participate. These should be going up around town next week, so I hope that will make it easier for everyone.

Just a question. If I buy a card and am staying at a local resort and book a tour...do I get the discount and or do they get their commission? Are they mutually exclusive or inclusive? Also, does the merchant pay anything to be a part of the program?

The terms and conditions of each ad is determined by the businesses making the offer, and there are also a variety of factors that determine whether or not there is a fee. I assume by asking these questions you have an interest in advertising, so by all means pm me here, or marie@hotcardbelize.com, and I can go through what is available in more detail.