All inclusive 7 nights, including drinks, meals, air, hotel, transfers, tax/tips $499................... to Cancun ! Air alone Austin-BZE almost $600 ???????????????

Whats wrong with this picture ?

Gov't taxes/fees + Mex subsidy = $$$$$$$$$$$$

I understand that, but G.O.B., B.T.B. doesnt. Then they wonder why visitors are choosing other destinations ?

When asked about that earlier this week at a SPCC meeting, a well-known PUP leader gave this answer:

Question: My son bought a ticket to Belize for $279 but the taxes and fees added on to the ticket by Belize doubled the cost. What should Belize do to lower taxes on travel?

Mr. Briceno: Taxes make up 70% of the revenue of Belize. The tax
structure must be looked at. Most of the taxes are consumption tax and business taxes. A small number of businesses are paying most of the taxes. There needs to be a broader base, the system needs to be computerized and all taxes need to be collected. This would result in more revenue and there could be a reduction in taxes.

What was the question again???

I donno, but I understand the answer.

Plus you have to listen to ONLY a 1 hour time share pitch that turns into 4 HOURS! No matter how many times you say NO, NO, NO!

Other than that, taxes + no substity = $756 from Phoenix to Belize for Feb trip!!!

Wow AZbob, I paid less than that for RT tix to Zurich last month. Unbelizeable!

Just booked for 4 of us @ $938.57 per, not including Tropic, arriving the 6th of Feb. Feb 2009 was $550.00 per. Aug 2008 was $500.00 per. BTB had better do something and soon.

Just found a CO Feb r/t for $715 all in that not only avoids IAH but eliminates one connection each direction. Almost seems cheap - in the same way that $2.65 gasoline does..........

at rates like they are now unfortunately rather than being unBelizable, it will become UN-Belize Unfortunately I don't think I can afford Belize at these rates I Belize and the people I have met there. Hope things change soon - June would be good

i never understood why it is so expensive either.

It's all the icons

Hawaii, Mexico, Europe.....freaking Buenos Aires airfare is less than Belize these days. All the hotel discounts in the world are not going to help if you have to pay exhorbitant fees to get there. GOB doesn't get it.

What do you all expect the BTB to do that they haven't or aren't? Are these airfares high because of tax or is it the airline prices that are high in the first place. When you see a flight is $x but with tax it's $y what is the split on the tax - it surely isn't all for the destination country?

Think again.

Someone with actuary type skills needs to do a study for the GOB
or the BTB and show them what is going on. The other side of this is, the GOB may position themselves with the idea of twice as many landings to equal what is now (monetarily) their income will have a direct affect on the fragile environment. More people more consumption, more waste etc.. Comments??

It depends a little on why the flights are expensive. A country like Belize with it's tiny population struggles to pay it's way and keep it's head above water and can never subsidise airline prices like a lot of the competition seems to.

But Phil, fares have never, EVER been this high as what we are seeing now. And, it has to boil down to taxes/fees. Something has changed, quietly, inside the operations at Goldson to create this. Here's why:

I've priced tix through the gateway cities from city X. Then priced the same itinerary as 2 separate tickets - one from city X to gateway and a 2nd ticket from gateway to BZE. Guess what? The BZE leg is the one causing the high fare. I can fly to Costa Rica from the same origin, going thru the same gateway city, for several hunred dollars less than BZE. In at least one case, I could go twice for the same $ and still have cash left over.

Do I have an answer? No. Do I know why? No (but I suspect privatization factors in). I only know the reality.

There is no doubt in my mind as to where the cost is from. The Belize government. Period! No ifs ands or buts! Ergo the suggestion of someone to show the effects of their actions.

Just thought of one reason. How much and who paid for, the runway extension? Who owns the airport, private or government? Would there be enough manpower if the landings doubled, can the current infrastructure handle a doubling of landings and twice the passengers?

I would think that the answers would be easily attainable for the BTB thru the same source as the opening of boat travel from Mexico. The tourist board of Cancun would most likely have a good deal of insight on this issue.

What are the landing fees/ground handling costs etc. in Belize? Maybe that's why the Belize portion is so expensive.

It's been known forever as the most expensive landing fee in all of central and south America. How much I don't know. But the improvements to the landing strip were not cheap.

From this site:

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch/login

You can get, by following the links, an idea of what they call cost construction of fares. It's a travel agent site (i.e. you can't buy from it) and there is a fair amount of their coded gobbledygook that makes the info limited for the average flyer. I have found through Google some forum websites for flyers but they are intimidating unless you are up to speed on the lingo.

Taken from an article from Cybercayecaulker.com



General Information about Air Service in Belize

Both Maya Island and Tropic Air services have connections to Philip Goldson International Airport in Ladyville (15 miles north of Belize City) where Continental, Grupo TACA, American Airlines and Delta make daily stops on their routes to and from the U.S. and Canada and most of the Caribbean and Central and South American countries that Pan American Airlines left when it ended service to Belize.


One final caveat about Belize International Airport... If you intend to air travel around Belize - don't go through the international airport, except to arrive and depart the country - because of the Belize governments unusually high landing fees at the international airport, air fares to that terminal are literally double those of Belize Municipal Airport.


As a matter of fact - if there are 2 or more people in your group, you can taxi into Belize city from the International Airport ($15, U.S. for the whole cab, not per person); tour around Belize City and then fly to Caye Caulker from the Municipal Airport for about the same money as a one way flight from Philip Goldson International Airport to San Pedro.

Fees

As mentioned above, the operating hours of the PGIA are from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Belize Airport Concession Company and Civil Aviation works seven days a week; whereas, Customs, Immigration and Quarantine works Monday through Friday, thereby, charging overtime to work on weekends in addition to working outside the operational hours of the airport.



The following are private aircraft fees charged by the various facilitating agencies at the PGIA:

BACC (Belize Airport Concession Company)

Landing fees are $9.75 for the first 6,000 lbs. of the aircraft’s weight, and $1.60 per 1,000 lbs. or part thereof.

For parking fees the first three hours are free and $4.00 for each 24 hours or part thereof per 10,000 lbs.

Passenger charges are: $2.50 per int’l passenger and $1.50 per domestic passenger for security fees; $30.00 for departure tax; $7.50 for PACT fee (foreigners only) and $30.00 for airport development fee (foreigners only).

Overtime fees are $394.00 for the first hour and $254.00 for any additional hour.

The Belize Airport Concession Company adds a 10% General Sales Tax on landing and parking fees.
CUSTOMS
Customs overtime fees are $40.00 for int’l arrival & $40.00 departure outside operating hours and on weekends the overtime fees are $80.00 arrival & $80.00 departure.

IMMIGRATION
Immigration overtime fees are $80.00 int’l arrival and departure for outside operating hours and weekends.

QUARANTINE
Quarantine overtime fees are $30.00 for each hour outside operating hours and on weekends.

CIVIL AVIATION
Civil Aviation overtime fees are $150.00 for each hour outside operating hours. Note: An operator desiring the provision of Air Traffic Services must request the services to the Belize Airport Concession Company Limited´s Duty Manager no later than 2300 UTC (1700 / 5:00 pm local).

CENTRAL AMERICAN COOPERATION AIR NAVIGATION SERVICES (COCESNA)
charges a fee per nautical mile flown in accordance with the aircraft’s weight. The charges are:

Category of Aircraft Maximum Take Off Weight lbs Coast Per Nautical Mile Flown US$
I 170,001 or more 0.55
II 110,001 to 170,000 0.36
III 50,001 to 110,000 0.28
IV 12,500 to 50,000 0.13


Aircrafts exempted from the above mentioned charges are: state, military or official aircrafts; private aircrafts on official missions; private aircrafts involved in humanitarian missions; aircraft in emergency situations or involved in search and rescue activities; and aircrafts whose maximum take off weight is below 12,500 lbs.

Contact Information:

Immigration and Nationality Services
Plaza Building

Maybe Ministry of Transportation and Ministry of Tourism need to talk to each other and decide if they want the tourist dollar to go to Belize or another country in the Caribbean that is comparable. When we were on AC last winter we didn't find Belize to be such a bargain (food, transportation, rent etc.) compared to other islands we have been too. Perhaps money to pay for the airport improvement and its operation could/should be raised through other taxes so as not to reduce the amount of tourist dollars coming into the country... but then maybe they have decided to slow down tourism so AC doesn't become another version of Cancun or Florida.

I am yet to hear a valid reason or suggested solution - just complaints - champions above info might have been good if I could translate it!!!! Are our Landing fees significantly more than elsewhere in the region, and if so is that because they are subsidised by others. Someone must know. cracked up? I was told by one of the Board members that run the Airport what the average landing fees for each commercial jet were. I can't remember the number but I was staggered at how low it was. I would guess it was three figures or low four figures.

If you are saying Belize is not cheap once you're here thats a different story, and please remember you have to compare apples to apples. The US (and Canada by partial default) are the largest consumer markets on the planet. You can't go anywhere else and find the same products cheaper as you have a mass market and margins can be tiny and still the economy flows. So for those that come and say " What!!!! I can buy Cheerios at a third of that at home" yes you can and there's a reason for it. Have a slice of Watermelon a Banana a Fry Jack, or a Johhny Cake.

Phil... If your comment about prices in Belize was a response to my comment you will find, if you re-read it, I was comparing prices in Belize to other islands we have visited NOT the US or Canada. Yes we found it not to be a bargain once we were there. I expect prices for certain things to be more expensive than home but still within the same range as other countries with similar population and challenges.

Not directly it wasn't no, just an overall generalism on a lot of visitors thoughts, which never catches everything or everyone.

However which Islands in the Caribbean are cheaper than Belize and for what? Comparing apples to apples? Just asking not picking a fight.

Houston/Cancun all in $279.00
Houston/Costa Rico $500.00 (1 1/2 hr further flying time)
Houston/Cozemel $300.00
Houston/Grand Caymen $500.00
LAX/Cancun $279.00
Houston/Bze $600.00

Rent and some food is cheaper in Roatan and no need for golf carts. Generally food, wine, airfare and transportation is cheaper in Grenada. Rent can be cheaper in Barbados as is food and wine, local transportation and airfare from Canada. Actually the only island we have found more expensive (on the whole) than AC is Antigua. Beer and rum is cheap everywhere... good thing! lol

AIRFARES DROPPED $300 FROM PHL YESTERDAY!!!

Somebody must be listening - buy, buy, buy!

I was told the other Day Westjet had some great sales going on from Cancun, I checked.

Cancun to Toronto in December $42!!!

I was real excited then looked at the return flight $350 to 650.

Would still be an awesome price if it was direct from Belize City, but not so great from Cancun.

what airline from PHL?

American - i ran it on orbitz.com & cheaptickets.com

$477 incl all tax & fees

Two months ago I balked at $725 out of Toronto thinking that, since that's the highest I had seen in quite some time, fares had to come down. I've watched prices continue to climb and now I'm looking at $820...and I'm buying 4 tickets. If I hadn't already committed to accommodation I would bail out, brush up on my spanish and head for Costa Rica...which, btw, I can get direct from Toronto to Liberia for about $550 all in.

Somebody local needs to take this thread to the mayor or the local btb and let em read it. You know, the stick up the A??.

OK..Just forwarded to Minister Heredia

Good job Jesse.

Let's get real. The tourism ministry or the BTB or tourists to Belize or residents of Belize can't do anything about high airfares to Belize.

The culprits, plain and simple, are the high costs in Belize or at least the widespread perception of high costs ... for hotels, tours, diving, groceries, etc.

This keeps a lot of people from choosing Belize as a destination, which in turn keeps the number of people flying to Belize lower than to other countries in the region (such as Costa Rica), which in turn keeps airfares high as the airlines do what Belizean businesses have always done -- raise prices to keep margins up instead of lowering prices to attract new customers.

The solution? It starts with tourism businesses in Belize becoming more efficient and more competitive in pricing.

The solution also needs to address ways for the government to get revenue without regressive, consumption-based taxes. Right now, import duties and the GST, both highly regressive, represent more than two-thirds of government revenue. Add taxes on fuel and the fact that government policies often work against competition by creating and supporting monopolies, and the result is prices that are higher than they should be.

That

This is partially correct for San Pedro as margins can be inflated comparative to the mainland and transportation costs. However I'm not sure it's relevant for the whole country though. I think we're a small country with a small population that has to import almost everything it uses and the main form of revenue for the Government is duty on imported items with little to no income tax.

Perhaps to improve and sustain the tourism the gov't could get it's revenues from other sources such as land tax (for non-Belizian citizen owners) and maybe a slightly higer sales/good and services tax instead of duties, landing fees and departure tax. I know some of the people who have built houses and condos at a steal won't like that idea but it may be best for Belize in the long run. I mean to pay $100 or $200 land tax/year is unbelievable compared to the $3000 to $5000/year we pay at home. Who knows maybe there will be some money left over to put into the education system to really get Belize going forward.

Phil, most of the Caribbean islands have to import all of what they use except for maybe food and rum... Antigua even imports water! I'm not sure how Belize is different.

I guess you live some place expensive, but we have 10 acres of land and a nice house and only pay $900.00/yr in taxes (in USA)

Consider yourself lucky........

Very lucky! We live in a subdivision with a standard size lot 3 bedroom backsplit (2200 sq.ft.) with garage and we pay $3500.00/yr. and thats considered a deal! Houses down the street are paying close to 6000. In the US does money from land tax go towards the education system or is that a separate tax?

It does in Idaho

Property taxes do in Massachusetts and some state funding from the lottery system (though that is questionable)

In many states, property tax includes school funding. Curently running about 85% of our community's tax bill right now.

Basically the same as in Canada then. We have to support 4 school systems (English and French public and catholic). Suecate, champion, klc are the taxes in your areas comparable to what I stated earlier?

Just got my new taxes for the house 4 min ago. They have gone up $200.00 for the next payment year even tho the property values dropped. Homeowners exempt. of $104,000 - Taxable $442,919.00, taxes of $5783.14.

My San Pedro house is US$75

About the same as here champion except our values are going up.

We are down about 125K on value.

Yup - or higher.

Values have decreased nearly everywhere and has no reflection upon the tax bill. The base may be reduced, but municipal needs static, equating to higher rate.

What is the value for just $75.00 Jesse?

Also, does the Govt do some kind of valuation every few years or so?

I'd guess about US$125,000...but that has no bearing on the tax bill. It is the same as all the vacant lots nearby.

How do they place value then for taxation ?

We get taxed on both the land and the structure in MA. We have a law that the taxes can not be raised more than 21/2% without and override. BUT they can reset the valuation on your property with no limit and funny how that doesnt seem to go down. Our schools take up the majority of the town budget 5 elementary, 1 middle, 1 high school and 1 tech. The other issue here is that we have a college and a private school that don't pay any taxes but use our resources ie fire, police, ambulance. The children of the employees that live on these campuses send their children to the public schools. The university promised money to the town every year to pay for the municipalities, then pulled it after one year. Thankfully the state has not made any cuts to the school budgets yet, that will tell you how much fat is at the state level. Taxes are getting out of control everywhere sales tax just went up, the "sin" taxes are as high as 60% (cigarettes, liquor and whatnot).

we live in a townhome on a postage stamp size lot in PA and pay about 4K a yr.

Someone just commented to me that this thread suffers from an enormous hijack.

Appropriate, me thinks, for one titled "air fare". And upon further thought the two subjects do have a commonality - sky HIGH rates!!

Book thru Cancun, 2 planes, 2 buses, another plane or water taxi.

Seems more and more AC visitors are taking that route.

Our properties are evaluated every 3 years and the tax is based on the millrate. Money for the education system is shared within the Province. When I said we support 4 systems I meant in every district we must support 4 school boards who in turn provide education in English in public and catholic schools and in French in public and catholic schools (some schools having less than 25 kids)in every city, town and most villages. A 'gift' left for us from the British via the BNA Act (when we were a colony) and enshrined in our Constitution by Pierre Trudeau.

I agree klc. This started with airfares being so high for BZE and then questioning why which lead to taxes and the tax structure and suggestions of how to change things.

back to the airfare sale, and my claim to buy if there was one...

...see you in April, SP.

YW, J

Our house on Caye Caulker $125US a year..they base that by its rental value..just bought a house in the States..tax was $3,400..they go on a 1% ...with what we paid taxes will go down to $1,200..still like the C.C tax better.....thing is where we bought in the States the neighborhood has had minimal repo going on so you have to understand the attitude of your neighbors paying the higher taxes as its strictly on a last sale of house value...not current market value.......crazy..

Chloe said: "Book thru Cancun, 2 planes, 2 buses, another plane or water taxi.

Seems more and more AC visitors are taking that route."

Seashell replies: That would have to be one amazing seat savings before I would determine that the time lost actually being in Belize, was worth the supposed savings. For me, it's kind of a Capt. Jeff thing . . . the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

For poor little Belize, it is a dangerous route. People taking that route, may start to notice that there are little places to stop and enjoy along the way, and perhaps they don't actually have to get to Belize after all.

Myself, once I found Belize, I've only returned to Mexico one time. And since I'd often come home from Mexico trips prior, to kiss the ground in Canada, I didn't expect to ever go back without some very compelling reason (maybe Cozumel doesn't count, lol).

Airfares are unlikely to improve vastly for any destination, without subsidization, due to the current price of oil.

All that said, Belize being set at 2 to 1 US$, is an excellent deal for Canadians right now. This only remains true, if hotel owners/operators set their rates at a good value. Any attempt to compensate for loss of custom by increasing prices, should totally backfire.

Today, I can get all the way to Buenos Aires, Argentina and back for a mere $1177.

Dare one be concerned that Belize's day in the sun, has come and gone?

I hate it when I agree with Seashell. However , air fare is out of sight, resorts/hotels ARE raising prices. Lose,lose. Sadly, Coz is looking better and better as well as CR

check your CUN airfares - they recently went up and right now from PHL, fares to CUN are the same as to BZE.

ps - thanks, klc - sometimes you're ok.

Just looked. Houston- Coz = $299 all in
Houston - Cun = $320 all in
Houston - Bze = $545 all in

It just aint right.

This just in from Travel-Ticker; Costa Rica

6 nights, hotel, breakfast, RT air, SUV, $499 !!!!!!!!!!!

Thats what Im talkin bout

ahhhh right - houston. reduced fee was with AA, which doesn't fly thru houstonn (and includes departure tax & 2 free bags pp...and customs last sept was EASY there, and still a smoking room...who'da thunk i'd ever be praising AA thru MIA????? )

Toronto to Roatan $675CDN direct flight 1 free bag pp.
Toronto to BZE $1041US and 4 hours wait in Houston each way, 1 free bag pp.
A no brainer if you ask me.

Uh oh! That trip to Roatan looks mighty attrative. I might have to spend a night or two in Toronto and it is still an awesome deal, um . . er, no wait, I have to get to Toronto and back, hmmm. Damn it, location, location, location.

Calgary to Hawaii $733 all in. Calgary to Nassau $693 Calgary to Jamaica $773 These are for dates in Feb.

Toronto to Holguin Cuba 10 days 5 star all inclusive - $899C

Toronto to BZE - $840C + $30C (1 checked bag) + $150C Tropic Air SP = $1020C Insane!

Wonder if Minister Heredia follows this board...

Nice letter to the editor in the San Pedro Daily about this issue

OK, all that said, when I first started going to Belize, many moons ago, I was often paying $1200 Cdn (one time $1500) in airfare just to get there, not including the puddle jumper flight, that was an additional $100 US. And not only that, my accommodations were also in $US, as was my diving, my touring, my partying. More often than not, the Cdn $ and US $ were far from par. At one time, for a year or more, I was paying $1.60 or so for the US $.

It was brutal, but I didn't care. I didn't care that it was cheaper to go to Cozumel or most anywhere else, because I'd found something so special in Belize, and I was willing to pay for it.

That was the reality at the time. I'm not so sure it's still my reality, regardless I can't see me not going at least once in a while, instead of as often as possible, as I have done in the past.

What would be ideal, is if something could be done about the disparity in pricing. If that could be fixed somehow, then new people would arrive, find the love, book the hotels; us old salts, could get back to arriving "as often as possible".

I know what you mean seashell especially on the US dollar issue. Thankfully that is not as bad now. We have only been to AC twice, once for 6 weeks last winter. As mentioned earlier in this thread we didn't find it to be the bargain we thought. In comparison to other islands we found San Pedro to be crowded, busy, not that attractive and lacked what we think was it's original 'charm'. That with the cost of cart rental to get around and the lack of clean swimmable beaches we are trying a new island this year and at a much cheaper price and easier to get to.

Seashell, I am trying to send you a pm but you are over your limit.

I'll send you one and then you will be able to respond.