Save Your SAGA Humane Society
 
For 10 years the SAGA Humane Society has provided valuable services to the Town of San Pedro and now it may be forced to close.  Please Act NOW.
 
Over 75% of the money needed to provide the community with a Humane Society comes from the veterinary clinic SAGA runs, which provides both free and for-charge care.  It is this income that pays for all of the other services.  NOW, the SAGA veterinary clinic may be forced to close, putting the entire Humane Society at risk and out of business.  If SAGA cannot employ a full-time vet, we cannot generate the income to offer all the many free and low-cost services we currently provide. 
This is what SAGA does for you and the animals of San Pedro:
 
* Dog Patrols to pickup stray, dangerous, diseased, maltreated, abandoned or injured animals.
* Responds to complaints of dog attacks, dog fights, noise nuisance and other negative interactions between the animal population and humans.
* Provides free rabies shots for all animals.
* Provides free or low cost medical treatment for animals belonging to those suffering financial hardship.
* Provides a shelter to house, feed and treat the homeless or mistreated animals of San Pedro.
* Provides animal adoption services, providing many local families with much loved pets and guard dogs.
* Assures that all people who want to adopt are able to provide good care for the animal.
* Assures all animals placed for adoption are spayed or neutered and have been given a clean bill of health with all shots up to date.
* Provides free or low cost spays & neuters to help prevent overpopulation.
* Provides humane euthanasia when appropriate and eliminate the need for the Town Board to use poison as an alternative.

* Provides educational programs to help the people of San Pedro learn how to care for a healthy, happy pet.


If you want to help, please contact SAGA urgently to sign their petition to save this very valuable service to the community before it is too late.  For 10 years we have helped San Pedro.  We need your help now.
 

 
Contact The SAGA Society:
Coconut Drive, San Pedro, Ambergris Caye, Belize, Tel: +501 226 3266, Email: saga@btl.net
Online petition here http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/savesagahumanesociety/

so the real question is WHY is SAGA being forced to close? Details? Thoughts?

"Forced?" by whom and why?????

At first glance it would seem that financial woes are the reason.

There is a fundraiser yard sale this sunday at the central park from 8am on til after lunch time. Please come and participate!

There is also a fundraiser ball at the end of the month planned. I will post the details tomorrow.

I have adopted a Saga cat who is a great addition to our family. I think that the island needs an animal shelter to care for strays and adoptable animals so if you love animals and pets please show your support to this cause.

sagas financial woes? or competing vets?

Sign the petition everyone!

Thanks,
#58

signed, donated.

What is the petition? To whom is it addressed and what is it asking for? Have SAGA been refused permission to have their own vet?

click it. read it.

"Please – Add your name to let the Belize Veterinary Licensing Board know that you believe that the SAGA Humane Society should be able to continue operating a veterinary clinic for the benefit of all of San Pedro."

I have read the petition. This issue is more complex than it appears. Presumably the Licensing Board has declined to issue a license for SAGA's new vet? What reason did they give? How did they consider SAGA should operate, without its own vet? Or did they just not care? There must be a lot we aren't being told.

agreed

If Saga closes, this will be another disappointment for San Pedro....
Seems to me that San Pedro is going backwards in its progress for the things we need the most.

Lets allow for more condos, hardware stores, taxis etc....duh.
(insert sarcasm here)

The Veterinary License Board is dragging their feet in issuing a license for Saga's new vet because of complaints from the previous veterinarian who walked out and opened her own "for profit" clinic at Pedro's Inn.   In the meantime, Saga cannot survive without the Clinic income.  As you can read, Saga's donations only make up 25% of the money it takes in to support the organization.  Saga's new vet, a great gal from New Mexico, has been here for two months twiddling her thumbs and we will lose her shortly if something doesn't happen fast.  The "for profit's" clinic rates are such that the average client cannot afford them besides the fact that Saga does all of the community services listed in the petition and operates the shelter for strays.

Sorry so slow to post that, the reason, I am traveling. I should have posted the reason at the start of the thread. Chalk this trouble up to bad Peter and his lady the vet. They don't want any competition, so they want to gut SAGA. Nice folks. No real surprise with Pedro tho. Not a nice guy.

Is this the same Pedro who has in the past risen 10 of thousands of $$$$ for Saga.

Don't know what he has raised for them in the past , but he is trying to shut them down to benefit his ladies' business. They want NO MORE free spaying clinics, as they would much rather folks had to PAY his vet friend. Etc etc they want to kill SAGA so they can make more money.

Sorry to hear this, but then it is 3 years since I lived on the Island.

To be fair the new animal hospital did offer free neuters and spays in January for famillys in need according to one of Pedros websites.

Surely there is space for both a charity such as SAGA and a normal paying vet hospital.

There are a lot of people that will just not be able to take care of there animals without the work of SAGA and that will be bad for the animals of San Pedro as they just wont take them to the vet as they wont have the money for it.

I think Pedro should have an opportunity to put there side as I checked there site and it looks like they offer to assist SAGA with money to do there work if needed and if I am reading there site correctly they also offer to do free work supported by the foundation they run.


Gaz

They are working hard every day to shut down SAGA, believe me. The rest is window dressing. BS if anything to throw off the scent. Ain't gonna work, the dogs are on them and have real good sniffers.

They are working with the powers that be to shut SAGA. The petition is to help fight back with the authorities, to show a need exists ( obviously ) for low cost services. Many folks simply cannot afford the vets rates so they have no animal services.

What are the Animal Hospital Vet rates I cant find them on there website rates are not listed nor on Sagas.

How much more is the animal hospital compared to Saga

Either way it really seems that there is enough business to go around for 2 vets on the island and based on the petition there is HUGE support for SAGA

Gaz

Pedro only raised $ for saga when his girlfriend worked there. Now she doesn't work there so he wants to kill them. Sorry for calling it like it is, no BS but I and many others are sick and tired of his games.

Seems like Gaz, too bad Pedro disagrees and is busting his balls to kill SAGA. Then the vet would be super busy! No competition!

What people fail to realise that Pedro only raised money for SAGA while his girlfriend worked for them.  Once he raised money for SAGA, he even offered to have his staff help with maintenance ------ and then sent them a bill!  SAGA performs 40-50 free and subsidized neuter/spays a month (when they have a licensed vet) and provide free or subsidized care for hundreds of animals.  Are Pedro and his girlfriend going to do all of that.  Um no.  They want SAGA to pay them.  They want SAGA to support their failing business because they can’t get any clients on their own.
 

SAGA neutered and spayed 190 dogs and cats this week for free with the help of volunteers.  Once the clinic is forced to shut, this won’t happen anymore.  Will the private clinic offer that service to the community?

Ok ok ok....everyone lets keep on track here...

Yes, we need SAGA. Yes, i support SAGA. Yes, i've used their services and yes my dog is a SAGA dog.

The net net is not whether Pedro is an asshole, we all know he is....but he is NOT the licensing board.

Mostly, i do wish both sides of the issue (SAGA and Pedro) could just put their issues aside (they BOTH have them) and remember the point. Now, i'm sure i'll get skewered for saying that...but i guess the net net...all the fighting between BOTH factions has led to this point.

I dont think anyone would disagree that SAGA is a completely necessary, useful and valuable asset to the island. The point is to save the clinic, focus on that, not what an asshole pedro is. its misdirected, wasted energy.

So, is the vet who is "twiddling her thumbs" currently licensed and with working papers? Or is that the hold up? They arent being issued? Lets unravel the knot of this mess and get it straightened out.

i found my ball gown (yes, really) in my closet, and have full intention of wearing it as i proudly support FOTHS and SAGA on the 26th

Marty your 'bone to pick' with Pedro goes back at least a decade - and you are flaming a drama with your posts - Laurie the vet is NOT trying to shut down SAGA. There is room for SAGA and a private vet practice. Peter is Peter, and the SAGA folks, are well, who they are too. The animals will lose if the humans keep fighting over $$$. I won't donate to SAGA anymore; I have donated to the SPAF to cover the discounted rates on the spays/neuters Laurie has done on strays and needy animals. I signed the SAGA petition too, because I believe they need to keep their doors open; however, I don't agree they need a full time vet - that money could be better spent on shelter costs and supplies and they could use the discounted services of SPAH if they would STOP FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER.

i don't know any of the details but i say,, if one animal is neglected because of people fighting over egos and/or money, all party's involved should hang their head in shame.

Why on earth would you no longer donate to SAGA ??

Gaz

I've never seen anything to suggest that SAGA has done anything but wish the new private animal hospital the very best. I think they just want to continue to offer the services to the community that they always have done and to do that, they do need to have a vet clinic as so many poor people here cannot afford private veterinary treatment and there is no one to pay for the spays and neuters of stray and homeless animals, even at a discounted rate. All over the world charities run veterinary clinics to subsidise their work and offer a service to the community at large. I have heard that the reason the SAGA vet cannot get her papers is because of complaints about 'unfair competition' and for no other reason.

Gaz, I feel like my donations are better used by other charitable efforts at this time.

I could not have said it better or more simply!

I've seen otherwise collyk. The truth is all of the people on 'both sides' are acting ridiculous.

Wasn't the new "Friends of San Pedro" organization looking for places to donate the money they had collected? I'd say SAGA would be a very worthy recipient.

Islenutt, you can donate to FOSP and earmark SAGA to receive your donation. FOSP is completely transparent in its operations. Great group of folks.

Unfortunately Marty has muzzled Peter so he can't post here and I presume Laurie (the previous vet) can't either, but wasn't there a concerted effort by SAGA shortly after she left SAGA (having been driven out after she asked for financial information they weren't prepared to give her, apparently) to get her expelled from the country? Didn't they report her to the Immigration authorities as no longer having a work permit to work in Belize (untrue), and to the Licensing Board as not having a practising certificate in her own right (also untrue)? In fact, didn't they resort to every underhand trick in the book to ensure the Animal Hospital never got off the ground? Partly to ensure no competition for SAGA, but largely motivated by spite against Laurie?

I'm sorry if none of the above is true, but it is what was widely circulated at the time and it has never been plausibly denied by the people suspected of having instigated it. I do know at least part of it is true, because I saw a posse of police and other officials visit the hospital, and judging by the fact that they didn't take her away in handcuffs and the hospital continued to operate they found nothing untoward.

People are right in saying now that this is absurd childish behaviour and everyone should learn to get on for the benefit of the animals. I'm not really concerned with who did what when. I have long been concerned about the secrecy surrounding SAGA, mainly concerning financials, and have wanted major management changes there that haven't happened. However, I totally support the ethos of SAGA and contrary to what many people would have you believe, so do Laurie and Peter. He has after all raised a great deal of money for SAGA over the years.

Peter may have quite a lot of influence here, but I wasn't aware that he controlled the Veterinary Licensing Board. They have clearly come to some decision that we haven't been told, based on whatever facts were available to them. Do we really think Peter is behind that, because that is what someone (Marty?) has said above. In any case, do we really think their decision is so ill-founded that a petition asking them to reverse it will succeed? I am sure they considered the operations of SAGA in the context of the SPAH being nearby, an animal hospital that is now in many respects the best equipped in the entire country, and decided that the two organisations could work together. They clearly decided that there wasn't enough work for two full-time vets on the island.

So, WHY can't SAGA negotiate with SPAH to find a satisfactory working arrangement?

Good point Islenutt. With 75% of their income gone right now, SAGA needs help more than ever. Even under these difficult circumstances they managed to neuter and spay 190 cats and dogs this week! (with volunteer vets)

So, you don't have to be a Cinderella. You can go to the Ball! The FAB Ball will be one of the best ways you can show your support for SAGA and have a blast. You can get tickets from fothsbelize@gmail.com.

There is also going to be a big yard sale in Central Park on Sunday for SAGA.

Yes, Peter, you have accurately described what has happened in the past. Many people know who was involved in making those 'reports' to the immigration authorities. Shame on you!

That is the million dollar question.

I just went to the FOSP website to see about donating to SAGA. On the news section they say they are refunding all money given for dues and donations. Does this mean they are finished?

From the website:

Unfortunately we have had an issue with our payment processor and all donations and memberships have been automatically refunded. If you have previously submitted a membership payment or donated a sum of money, you will be receiving an email from Google informing you of the refund.

I read that to mean that there was a problem with the processor and the monies were automatically refunded - and nothing more. I would contact them directly for clarification.

Well the answer is pretty clear based on the above information

They dont like each other and dont want to work with each other by the sounds of it

either way the animals are the ones that are gonna suffer if SAGA is forced to shut down as it is not just a Vet service.

Gaz

I totally agree with everything you just said Gaz.

Can you elaborate please? Am I accused of doing something?

SAGA have repeatedly stated that they think it is great there is a private clinic and want to work together for the animals of San Pedro. I've seen them state this over and over. If there is any evidence to the contrary (real evidence, not stories and heresay), I for one would be very interested to see it. I couldn't support an organisation that didn't play nicely with others and have seen no evidence (in fact quite to the contrary) that SAGA has anything against the private vet clinic in San Pedro. Anyone here can call them or email them directly to find out their position on this and should. I think they will be pleasantly surprised (or disappointed in the case of the naysayers).

You may need to re read the post Peter she was reffering to the people that reported the people to immigration and not you

Gaz

I should out myself right now as someone who has been repeatedly libeled in this issue. I am not on the SAGA Board. I am a supporter, volunteer and I help with fund raisers through FOTHS. I have personally been accused in public on several occasions (along with other people who have even less to do with SAGA than I do) of being someone who called immigration on the vet clinic. I will state here categorically that I would not even know how to call immigration to report someone for anything, nor would I ever do such a thing. Even if I did I can't imagine they would pay a blind bit of notice to me anyway. That allegation has been one of the most bizarre things I've ever had to deal with since I've lived in Belize. It is rather unnerving to have friends call from the mainland and say 'So, I was at this cocktail party and 'so and so' was there telling people that you organised this immigration raid'.
So I hope this clears the air on that one, though I know that anyone who knows me thinks it is a joke and beyond ridiculous. I would think though that the sponsor of a work permit would be obliged to contact immigration when that person ceases to be their employee. I honestly don't know if that happened but it would seem to make sense.

I don't know what SAGA have said, but their behaviour runs to the contrary. When for clinical reasons Laurie tried to enter the SAGA building she was barred and told (by a director) that she would never be permitted to enter that building. Is that a sign of peaceful cohabitation?

I understand, and I am pretty hazy on the details here, that a dog died on Saturday after being given inappropriate and way out-of-date pills at SAGA. I also understand that Laurie believes the dog's condition was easily treatable and curable but that she was never consulted - she found out after the event. WHY does SAGA persist in illegally and unprofessionally providing "veterinary services" when there is not a qualified vet there, but there is 100 yards away?

I have found out (from another source, because SAGA doesn't seem to want to release all the information it has) that the Veterinary Licensing Board is concerned at the proliferation of humane societies around Belize (not here, of course) undermining the financial stability of many private vets, and that is why they are now taking a harder line. They have apparently offered SAGA (or the new vet, I don't know which) a limited operating license. I don't know how it's limited, but it seems it would be sufficient for SAGA's purposes. Yet it also seems SAGA is not satisfied with that.

I don't think there's any doubt that the vet is the most important person in SAGA. No vet, no SAGA (apparently). So why did the Board of SAGA decide that the vet must be treated as an employee, with no say on the direction SAGA takes or on the use of money, to the extent that having appointed Laurie to the Board (evidently without thinking it through) they then resorted to trickery to hold a meeting to remove her? Have they never read the story of Thomas à Beckett?

I'm sorry, these current events confirm my view that whilst San Pedro desperately needs an animal rescue and boarding facility it does not need SAGA as currently constituted.

Rather than pose those questions here and further undermine SAGA, why don't you do something constructive and call or email them and ask them directly? That is what I normally do when I want this sort of information and they have always been incredibly forthcoming and helpful.

Peter would make Hilda Ogden proud

Gaz

Insofar as my "questions" are directed at SAGA, and I don't think most are, SAGA have already indicated that they will not answer them. I don't think anything I have said or asked undermines SAGA, but I do think issuing a call for people to sign a petition where (it becomes clear) they are withholding critical information that those people would like to know is at the least deceitful. They can't honestly think the Licensing Board will be swayed by a petition (certainly not now I have been able to discover a little about the Board's decision), so I imagine their objective is merely to stir and raise the temperature.

Incidentally Colette, I only know one person who suggested you were involved in the Immigration Department debacle. I and many others never suspected you of having anything to do with it.

From his last post I can tell that Peter is obviously getting his information from only one side and is propogating that information. Collete is right, pick up the phone.

I am not accusing you of doing anything Peter - that remark was meant to the person who contacted the immigration authorities attempting to have Dr. Droke deported.

No Simon, I have obtained some information from that "other side" and have given it, as well as commenting on the information given by or on behalf of SAGA. This whole sorry affair has been manipulated from the beginning, and the people who manipulated it are now beginning to see the inevitable consequences. Do you honestly think any director of SAGA is going to talk about the various events of the recent past? Even now I don't know what their game is, because it is quite clear that (1) SAGA have not been denied having their own vet, so that is an outright lie, and (2) even without their own vet they can continue to operate much as they should have done in the past. I might add (3) the reason they don't have a vet is wholly of their own making.

this is like private doctors trying to shut down free clinics.

iluvbelize, peter, come on guys. You say the issue is for the animals and not about the people fighting behind the curtains, but all you've done is tried to protect pedro/lauri aka private vet by trying to deflect the negative attention to SAGA. Bravo. Try to be a little less hypocritical and contradictive.

I personally think if this is a matter of greed and it disgusts me. Unlike you two, i REALLY do believe that if this is the case the problem IS with the people trying to shut down SAGA, and that is what needs to be discussed. Petitions and donations alone ARE NOT going to do anything. The ROOT issue is what needs to be addressed.

Im sure if Outback steakhouse was trying to shut down homeless soup kitchens in Chicago it wouldn't fly too well. It doesn't make fiscal sense anyway, alot of the people that go to SAGA go there because they CANT afford a private vet. So if SAGA closes those people aren't all the sudden going to go to the new vet, you are just going to have more strays, more sick/dying dogs, and people will have no options at all.

It breaks my heart to see all the homeless dogs here. Imagine if SAGA wasnt spaying and neutering hundreds a week. There will be more dogs than people in no time, Poisonings will have to commence. Peter, THIS is why SAGAs needed.

AC

To clarify. Dr. Droke is not trying to close Saga directly, she is objecting to all Humane Societies in Belize having an in-house vet, thus competing with private practices. I am not sure any other Humane Societies have a full-time vet, so guess where that is aimed. Clever stategy, but aimed purely at her 'competition'.

Howver, about 75% of Sagas income is from veterinary services, without which, we would find it very difficult to continue. Add to the the fact that Dr. Droke will have to carry out all the medical proceedures, at a huge cost to Saga, there will be very little done. To compare, an in house vet can do 10 spay/neuter surgeries a day. To use Dr. Droke at her minimum rate, and not allowing for the 'additional costs' she loves to add, the cost for 10 surgeries is Bze$1,500. Take off her very generous 20% discount, you still have $1,200 minimum. Saga could not pay that with a full time vet in their employ. Simple math.

The story about the dog that died over the week-end is based on truth, but the owner was told to go to Dr. Droke but said she couild not afford her rates. You can not force someone to go where they do not want to go. This is far from the first time this has happened.

There has been a constant stream of accusations against Saga from Dr. Droke and Peter, I am sure those of you that read the 'other' message board has seen it. It is drivel, and unfounded. There are two on this thread that seem to believe it all, Peter Jones and Iluvbelize. They are entitled to their opinion, but they should try listening to both sides.

And to Peter, no there was not an effort by Saga to stop Dr. Droke working. The rumour was spread by Them that the raid was instigated by Saga, though I am sure the raid did happen. I can tell you that we thought she had her permit, that is what we were told by immigration. And before you jump to conclusions about why we were in contact with immigration, it was because she had a cheque from Saga to pay for her work permit renewal, and we did not want to pay for her to work privately. We was told that her permit was approved, and paid with a private cheque. And, again not to let you jump to conclusions, the unused cheque was returned soon after.

Anything 'bad' or 'negative' that happened to Dr. Droke or Pedro was automatically blamed on Saga, and their 'vindictive' nature. What rubbish.

As for 'Friends of San Pedro', that came about due to the Saga bashing earlier this year, I do not have confidense they are pro-Saga.

All of you, do not take my word for it. Contact Saga, contact people who listen to both sides, and make up your own mind.

And help Saga survive, this island needs Saga, and Saga needs a vet to survive.

Well I can certainly understand the issue here Saga did 190 spays and neuters last week for free if they were to work with the new SPAH it would cost SAGA 120 per op = $22,200 bucks

Well I think we all agree that is just not possible and certainly explains why they need there own full time vet.

I still think there is enough biz for both entities

Gaz

How is that Saga can do 190 in a week when, an in house vet can do 10 spay/neuter surgeries a day.

From what the post said it was with volunteer vets and assistants I guess kinda like the dentists that come in now and again.

Normally they do 40-50 a month which would still cost them $6000 monthly

only reading what Marty posted earlier

Gaz

cause they arent milking the clock to justify high rates? lol

AC

Have I got this right, Saga Vet can not work there but volunteer vets can, were did these vets come from?

I want SAGA to survive and continue acting as a much needed shelter and first response for care and assessment. I have made this clear; I do not take sides here, but SAGA has no reasonable business model in my opinion, and if they do, they are keeping that a secret.

i think the issue is more potential revenue for SPAH than potential costs for SAGA.

AC

AC, The story is about as Peter Jones reported. I read about everything I could about it at the time and talked personally to some of the parties involved.

SAGA has a management problem, treated the vet poorly and this is the result. SAGA has a place in town but until things change they have lost a lot of support. When the vet, Dr. Laurie was there fund raising was very good and things where going well. That ended when she was pushed out by their shabby treatment which continued even after she left.

AC you are not seeing the whole picture. It does not have to be "Us vs. Them". That is what is keeping everyone from working together to serve the animals.

Cant argue with that, if they were a better/bigger business they would charge full price, and make a lot more money, and not need donations!

Oh, but then thered be so many stray dogs running around that youd have to spray your feet with disinfectant from walking thru dog shit on the beaches. Sounds great! Whoohoo for big business!

Not finished at all. Our original payment processor refunded all donations automatically and we had to ask our donors to resubmit their donations. Most donors thankfully did so and as a result, was nothing more than a minor hiccup.

Regarding donating to SAGA via FOSP. We are happy to help support SAGA in their efforts. Our intention is not to be a "bank" for other charities but rather work with them on "projects".

Like i said I went from what Marty posted but i would guess it would be under the same arrangements like when the plane full of dentists come to San Pedro and treat anyone that needs dental treatment on a volunteer basis.

Gaz

Look, Im sure theres 2 sides, there ALWAYS is, and im sure both sides hold some truth, one more than the other as always. The problem however is that before saga there were too many strays, and as every where else in belize they were poisoned for population control.

Now enter saga, population gets controlled. Poisonings stop. Can you try to use some foresight and imagine if sagas gone and those 100-200 animals are NOT spayed and neutered weekly?

I wouldn't care if it was God trying to shut down SAGA, if the offense is successful we are going to be up to our ears in dogs that are going to breed and breed and ultimately be poisoned. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN BELIZE WHERE SAGA ISNT AT!

So in my mind is it US vs THEM. Whomever THEM maybe. Unless THEY are going to pick up the slack and start spaying and neutering all these animals for free, THEY are the evil ones. and ultimately will be the reason we will have dead dogs in the streets.

AC

FOSP has been in the works for nearly 3 years. As an organization we are 100% neutral and have no pro or against stance of anyone. We would like to be a tool to help any charity servicing the community of San Pedro.

I am not aware that anyone is trying to shut down SAGA. AFAIK SAGA has been given a modus operandi by the Licensing Board, but they neither feel inclined to share this with the rest of us nor to accept it. I don't see the Board responding to bullying from either side, nor do I see them reversing their apparent decision any time soon, so somehow these people are going to HAVE to find a way to work together. With such deeply entrenched positions that seems to be difficult. The alternative is just to give up, which no-one wants.

I would be interested to know how SAGA/FOTHS fundraising is going. It was said that it reached a peak when Laurie was the vet there, but what's happened since?

I have just been sent a copy of a letter sent on Monday by Laurie to as many SAGA officials as she could identify. I'll post a list of them if anyone wants. I haven't even read the letter, but I have been asked to publicise it as it does shed a little light in an area where until now there has been only heat:-


Hi,

I'm sorry to send this to so many people. I am only guessing at who the Saga Board of Directors is now composed of. I think it is important for you to know that one of your patients, who was treated by Ingrid on Saturday, died in my hosptial last night. By the time I saw him it was way too late. He was severely anemic with a Hct of 7%. Normal is 40%. The owners told me that your vets were too busy on Saturday so Ingrid treated him. They said that she barely even looked at him and sent home some pills. He was very sick and had been for some time. The owner showed me the pills. They were not even labeled with what they were. One I recognized as some ancient Deramaxx which are so old they are decomposing and do not even resemble tablets any more. I do not know if they were charged or given for free, but obviously this is malpractice.

I do not know why this patient was not referred to me. I am much better equipped than the Saga clinic and this client could afford it. If you are so busy that you are overwhelmed, why is Ingrid practicing veterinary medicine instead of sending clients who can afford it to a real vet?

At some point your actions are hurting animals, not helping them, and you really need to reassess your crusade against me. I am not against humane societies. I think that Saga has done a great job over the last 10 years at improving the condition of the dog population here. However, Saga has not done well at taking care of people's pets. Your clinic has always struggled at staying properly equipped. When I arrived it had almost nothing. You cannot justify hurting other people's pets to support your humane society work. I know that you have seen how other humane societies work. They function just fine without trying to be a full-service vet clinic. I wish you would consider the possibility that Saga has its limits of what it can do well. Saga has always tried to do too much because there was no other veterinary care here. Things have changed and if your organization continues to try to fight this progress it will only be to the detriment of your organization and the people and animals you are trying to serve. Your position that San Pedro Animal Hospital should not exist is just frankly wrong. I am offering services that Saga has never been able to offer and I am saving animals' lives.

Once again, I fully support your work as a humane society. I have offered you discounts and free spays and neuters. I have not damaged any signs that belong to the humane society despite your group's repeated vandalism of mine. But I will continue to complain to the Veterinary Board as long as you continue to function in a way which is illegal and is hurting people's pets. If you do choose to continue to run a full service vet clinic IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to refer patients to me when they can afford it and you cannot properly diagnose and treat them. If you cannot handle this responsibility you should not be running a full-service veterinary hospital.

This is not personal, despite all my personal issues with the people at Saga. You can choose to believe what you want about me personally. But I think it is time for you to move past this and do the right thing for your community. I will continue to make formal complaints against Saga Humane Society to the Veterinary Board as long as you continue illegal activities. If this means you are having trouble gettinig licenses for your vets you need to stop blaming Peter and take a look at your own methods of operation. I know that there are a lot of people that will believe your position as the generous charity against the money-grubbing private clinic run by the evil Pedro. But this does not make your position true. I just hope that more people's pets will not suffer before you realize that the way you are working is wrong.

Sincerely,
Laurie Droke, DVM

real subtle, wonder which side you're on

This was the email header:-

*** Edit: Peter, please do not publish other people's email addresses without their permission. ***

I find it very difficult to be polite when faced with such total crap. Why don't you pull your head out and consider the facts? I am not on any side, or rather, I am on the side that produces a solution to this mess. I'd much prefer that there weren't sides. Check the records - fundraising was said to have reached a high when Laurie was there. Perhaps that was coincidence and unrelated to her, I don't know. I'd just like to know what's happened since.

Peter, And of course you will not know unless something changes because the books are not open to the public and that was one of the issues when there was record fund raising.

responses to the letter/email? if you wanna show both sides, then show them.

and i agree i wish there weren't sides, but there are. I also agree that Im all about resolving this fast, how do you suppose we can do that? Id rather not be pointing fingers, id rather see actions made. Im up for ideas?

and facts? if saga goes down, no one will be around to spay and neuter all those poor animals. Poisonings will continue, that is the fact im focusing on. the only FACTS youve provided are "ive heard, and i thought, and what if" and more questions that you are leading to for preferred answers. If you have facts, post them, and I'll read and take them into consideration. Until then dont lecture me on the idea of considering the facts.

You can not keep on giving money to people if they will not show you were the money has gone. SHOW US THE MONEY?

No one is asking for money here...just support for SAGA.

Question, am I to understand that owners brought in 190 pets in one week to be neutered?

What kind of support? I have a strong back if that is any help.

Can you sign a petition?

I can do that.

I just did.

Nice!

But what good is that petition? I'd sign it if I thought it would help SAGA, but I don't. SAGA is not in the dire state they would have us believe. I have no idea what their current finances are, of course, but I do know that if what I have heard is true they will be allowed to have a vet for humane society work. As I understand it they will not be able to operate a commercial vet clinic, the reason being that there is already one nearby. So unless SAGA can drive SPAH out of business, which I don't see happening any time soon (nor do I see it as desirable, and that has nothing to do with personalities) they have NO OPTION but to work with SPAH.

Of the 190 neuters/spays reported as having been performed, I wonder how many of those were for owners who otherwise could not have afforded to have had it done. I have the impression that a number of well-heeled people took advantage of the free offer. Is that a proper use of SAGA's resources - providing free veterinary services to people who can readily pay? And if the objective was to reduce the business stream for SPAH, that would have been as improper as it was futile.

I am curious on some aspects of that mass neutering program. Were they done according to best veterinary practice? Were all the appropriate drugs used, because I believe they are very costly? And who did them, given that SAGA doesn't have its own vet? Did they get special dispensation for their new vet or did they bring another vet in?

I would also like to know the answers to the questions from Peter Jones?

It’s so bad what going one and nobody speak about it.

Last week it got a call from Laurie Droke
(San Pedro Animal Hospital) for a renew of the rabies vaccination of my dog and my cat.

I got my dog from saga, and I was always going with my cat to Saga.



In any country if you start you own business, you can not steal the customer base from you former employee and the contact actively this customer.

Laurie knew the name the hard to spelling name of my dog and my cat, the date of the last vaccination and my cell phone number. I told Laury clearly I don’t want here service and I’m fine with SAGA.

I don’t know if there is no law in Belize to prevent this bad behavior, but ethically is not acceptable. The way Pedro and Laurie try to take the None Profit Organization SAGA out of business is disgusting.


If SAGA doesn’t exist anymore were the Belizean Families with 800 BZD a month can get affordable treatment for there animals.


We have to stand up for SAGA and we have to oppose the disrespectful money drive practice of the San Pedro Animal Hospital.

I seriously doubt that Laurie had any such thing in mind. She set up the clinical database at SAGA and obviously took it with her, so I would think she was merely reminding you it was due and offering to do it. Did you have any comparable reminder from SAGA?

I also don't think SPAH is a "disrespecful money drive practice". I know no more about their finances than I do SAGA's, but I do know that they have installed a great deal of very expensive equipment which somehow has to be paid for, and I do know that they only use drugs that are in-date. In fact, I believe they donate any drugs past their official expiry date but still usable to SAGA.....

wow. yeah peter im sure they didnt want ANY of the past customers either it was just a friendly reminder that they should go back to the free clinic. come on man...

@Peter,
if you are honest you know it was not a friendly reminder and Laurie and Peter only have the $$ signs in there eyes.

Laurie was employed from SAGA. It's illegal take a customer database from your old job and start a new competition.

Otherwise every old Microsoft employee will start to sell his own Windows 7 because he was writing some code for it.

If Laurie had a some animals in a ongoing treatment, that contact is fine for me, but to call all the gringos and paying customers out of the SAGA database is a crime, that should be reported from SAGA to the police.

Peter Jones,

There is a nice article in today's paper about the spay and neuter clinic. If you take the time to read it, you will find your information about the generous and compassionate woman who sponsored this much needed free service to our island. The surgeries were performed by two licensed and qualified vets from the USA.

Why don't you take some of the time you spend here filling this thread with your drivel and do the research, call SAGA, read the paper..find out the facts.

You have so many questions, now here is one for you. What ever happened to your lovely dog, Max?

So let me get this right. I come to a developing country to work for a ..hmm let's say free school for needy children. I decide not to work for them anymore and set up a fee paying school nearby. I then argue to the education board that because there is now a fee paying school that there is no need for the free school, but what would be an excellent alternative would be for the free school to shut down and to pay me to educate the needy kids. That way I am guaranteed an income AND no competition. Priceless.

This week SAGA has two vets (with proper paperwork) here on the island doing pro-bono work spaying and neutering. Today is their last day. They spent one and a half days in Caye Caulker doing similar pro-bono work.

In the 4 1/2 days they worked here on the island they did almost 200 spays and neuters for stray or needy animals...quite a back log of operations caused by the fact that SAGA has not had a full time vet for some months now.

SAGA needs a vet, even if it's just for 3 or 4 days a week. Poorer people here on the island also need a vet they can afford.
Most of the spays and neuters were pets. I totally understand if Laurie the Vet can't do spays and neuters for next to nothing and neither should she be forced to do so.

The fact is that does leave a TON of spays and neuters that have to be done by SOMEONE.

Peter Jones, I disagree with you, I'm confident the on line petition will help SAGA and thus I've just signed it. I also made a donation of $300BZE to SAGA which I have just handed to a SAGA volunteer. I'm sure this will help too.......

I should add that if I was a dog owner (and I used to be for many years here) I would be using Laurie's services because I'm not poor and needy. But, folk ought to have the right to choose.

This post is on behalf of the full Saga board. We are opening a Saga account, but are awaiting confirmation, or something????

Peter Jones has never contacted SAGA or asked any of these questions to us directly and so we have not had the opportunity to respond to these unfounded allegations. SAGA has been noticeably quiet during these many months of slanders and harassment because we were trying to take the high road, behave professionally and not stoop to the level of others. Unfortunately, now we have been forced to defend ourselves due to the imminent threat of the closure of our veterinary clinic.

Dr. Laurie Droke was banned from entering the SAGA building and we were forced to call the police because she was screaming at, abusing, and intimidating staff.

The activities of the Veterinary Licensing Board are private and so we cannot comment on their activities. It would concern us if they were expressing dismay at the ‘proliferation of humane societies’ because Belize needs more humane societies. Licensed vets have been working with and providing subsidised and free assistance all over Belize and we hope that those relationships continue to prosper.

The SAGA vet cannot operate because she has not been given a permit to do so. This is directly as a result of repeated complaints about ‘unfair competition’. She is not permitted in any way and continues to have to sit there. Meanwhile, when Dr. Laurie Droke is not available, there is no veterinary cover available to island animals.

SAGA was forced to remove Dr. Laurie Droke from their board because her behaviour was undermining their work at that time. This is a matter between SAGA and Dr. Laurie Droke. As a result of this, Dr. Laurie Droke left SAGA and started her own veterinary clinic. We wish her every success and know that the animals of San Pedro can only benefit from having two veterinary clinics.

Peter Jones has, in the past, asked to join the Board of SAGA but has been turned down. This was in part because Dr. Laurie Droke felt it necessary to remove a dog from him that he had adopted from SAGA. It is extremely rare for SAGA to have to take a dog from someone, but in this case Dr. Laurie Droke felt it was in the best interests of the dog.

If anyone has any further questions about the operations of SAGA, please contact us at saga@btl.net.

honestly, there is so much 'he said she said' on this...it reminds me of my old union negotiating days. cant it just....simply....stop?

Both sides are on the record saying they want to work together.

both sides are on the record saying that they want to help animals

so....whats the f*(&^ing problem?

As i see it, from this moment forward, the next person that comes in with an emergency to SAGA, if there is no Vet at SAGA, SAGA can call Dr Laurie Droke at 610-DOGS. She will or will not see the animal, and decide if there is a charge or not based on need, just like SAGA. The proof is in the pudding.

Next time there is a Spay and Neuter drive, Laurie can volunteer to work along side the other volunteer vets that did such an amazing job last week, as she's promised to do if welcomed, and therefore help. Period.

Instant teamwork, instant solution, and all this ridiculous childishness, half truths, miscommunications, missing information etc. can simply.....stop.

and yes, it is that easy. Only way to stop a vicious cycle is for one side or the other to simply.....stop.

Way i see it, end of discussion.

Saga is not microsoft!!! No doubt when you work at microsoft you are required to sign a contract that prohibits you from taking proprietary data. This is beyond crazy - do you seriously think that Saga should ask the police to arrest Laurie because she reminded you that your pet needed its annual shots?

Yes to all the above.

There are a lot of folks jumping to a lot of conclusions on this thread. There are always three sides to every story. Maybe we could channel all of this energy over to THIS thread for a while. http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/378747/HELP_Baby_Daniel.html#Post378747

Yes Saga is not Microsoft, but you miss the point.

Is it right for you, wen a former employee using your real estate customer database and contact actively all of them?

Just because SAGA is a non profit organization, it's still ethical and business wise a not acceptable practice.

Funny you should say that. One of my competitors took my client database and contacts my clients on a regular basis. I thought this was unethical, but the person that did this considers it competitive business practice. So although things may not be conceived as ethical you as the client retain the right to decline such offerings.

Thanks Reaper - fyi Road Kill is running a second world cup sweepstake to help raise money for Baby Daniel. They handed over $320 to the family yesterday and hope to do the same again today. They are such kind hearted folks. Thanks a million to all that have given money or helped spread the word.

And while this nonsense goes on, there are thankfully people who are in this (SAGA, Private Clinic, whatever) who have a genuine love and care for the animals who never asked to be born, mistreated or poisoned - people who spend time on this good work instead of raving on...

Seriously, during the nine years I spent on the island, SAGA always stood out as a group of unselfish people who have done miracles with very little money and against sometimes almost impossible odds, not only for the animals, but also as an eyeopener for lots of people in regards to animal welfare and decent behavior towards other living creatures.

Let's be thankful for this and move on... Yes, there seems to be trouble in Paradise (what's new?), but if someone decides to open up a private vet practice, so be it. Once people keep their fights in bars and bedrooms and leave the poor animals out of it, it'll all work. It can hardly be rocket science. SAGA should have a vet, and an additional private vet is an extra asset to the care for animals on the island.
You people are fighting like cats and dogs, while the real cats and dogs need you to settle you differences and agree about what's important.

I have two wonderful dogs who would probably not be alive, had it not been for SAGA. They have traveled around the world as living proof of SAGA's efficiency and will now be featured on a total of six full pages in two issues of a magazine here in Europe. I would hate for the article to end with an editor's note saying, "the humane society mentioned in this article no longer exists due to work permit issues, greed, politics and general mudslinging".

Now, why don't the agressive ones go to a corner of their room with a picture of a poor sick animal. Stand there for half an hour and feel ashamed of yourselves and then get together and figure out a way to work together and support each other in the Paradise that you are lucky enough to live in.

Dude you are on the bandwagon but have little background info or historical point of reference. This is not a matter of the private vet trying to shut down SAGA. It is not rich vs. poor, or any other ridiculous generalization at work here. It is complicated but that should NOT preclude the two entities working together to make certain all animals are provided with proper medical care when necessary, no matter what their financial means. It can be done - whether or not SAGA gets a vet license. It is a people problem not a political or administrative problem.

iluvbelize - I agree with you. And Wiele too! Let's get to the brunt of the matter. Lets take care of the animals, people egos/loves and hates should be pushed aside.

Complicated is the perfect way to describe the situation.

Weile, which I assume is Ebbe (?), good to see you around.

Let's agree to disagree and move on: support SAGA!!

Peter, take you own advice and get your head out of the sand. The drivel you post makes it obvious you only listen to one side, and no-one at Saga has ever been asked questions by you. You know where I work, come around for a tea and a chat, I will give you some unbiased news. Not sure you will, I believe you post what you do purely as revenge for NOT being accepted as a Saga board member.

And 'Iluvbelize', I have just given up reading your posts. Wow, twisted view or what???

Wow peter, that is a very brave statement. How many well healed pet owners did you see enter Saga for surgury ? was you counting ? Obviously not, because you would not have seen one person. Another blind accusation. Not one pet was done where the owner could afford the hundreds charged at the other clinic.

Grant - this is no way to spend your birthday. No battle will be won or lost on the message board. You gotta take certain opinions with a grain of salt. Look at the big picture and focus on the real issues. All the rest of this chatter just clogs up the airwaves and upsets and frustrates all of us.

This too will pass.

Grant, I signed the petition yesterday and added my comments requesting that SAGA be given a vet license. Pull your hard head out already. I am, as is everyone else, entitled to my opinions. Please do us both the favor of skipping my posts in the future if doing otherwise results in your snapping your wig.

June 10, 2010
 
 
Miguel DePaz, D.V.M., Chairman
Veterinary Surgeons’ Board
Belmopan, Belize
 
Re: ​Campaign of Harassment and Slander Against Saga Foundation, Ltd., d/b/a Saga
Humane Society and Veterinary Clinic, San Pedro Town, Ambergris Caye, Belize
 
Dear Dr. DePaz:
 
We are writing to you to clarify certain events and points regarding the Saga Humane Society’s operations in San Pedro Town on Ambergris Caye (“SAGA”). We are doing this in part because we are seeking to modernize our operation. As such, we would like to foster a close and cooperative relationship with the Veterinary Surgeons’ Board and with BAHA so that we may seek your guidance and assistance in improving SAGA. We are also doing this because SAGA has been suffering under a campaign of obstruction, harassment and slander, one that is threatening its very existence.
 
SAGA always makes sure it is professional and available to pet owners in urgent need of assistance during set opening hours, which are widely advertised. Any changes to those hours are also advertised.  SAGA currently cannot employ a full time veterinarian due to interference from a local business owner who wants exclusivity and a monopoly, providing no option for second opinions or after hours care.
 
Our clinic manager has been authorized to dispense certain products that are available over the counter at places like Prosser’s, pharmacies and pet supply stores.  While there has been some confusion as to what sort of products she is legally allowed to dispense, this is being urgently addressed by SAGA and we would welcome the guidance of the Veterinary Licensing Board in this matter. 
 
As a Humane Society, SAGA uses every opportunity to educate pet owners and inform them about responsible pet ownership. This, in fact, benefits the local private veterinary clinic as better informed pet owners are more likely to seek her services if they are financially able to.  SAGA always refers veterinary cases to the private clinic when clients can afford it and when no licensed vet is available. 
 
SAGA has, until very recently, been the only provider of veterinary services in San Pedro. This has been done in a variety of manners –either through full time veterinarians employed directly by the organization, or by a private veterinarian who has been paid by the Humane Society on a part time, visiting basis. SAGA has tried many times to find a Belizean vet who would to move to San Pedro to work; this unfortunately has not happened as yet, though it would by far be our preference. SAGA will continue to seek such an opportunity.
 
Because SAGA operates as a not-for-profit organization, it has not had the resources to develop an expensive, high tech clinic, but has done a remarkable job saving many lives and preventing thousands of unwanted litters.  SAGA wishes to improve its facilities but can only do so if it is able to operate a veterinary clinic to support its important work in the community, collecting strays, responding to public health and nuisance complaints, dealing with dangerous dogs, offering rabies vaccinations and providing good care for unwanted, abandoned or lost animals.
 
SAGA is beloved by the community and by many who visit San Pedro and have seen first hand the remarkable job that they have done reducing the stray population and eliminating the need for the cruel and very unpopular method of poisoning to control strays.  This is why many veterinarians from abroad donate drugs and equipment to assist them in their much needed work.  These drugs allow SAGA to treat animals in their care as well as those who cannot afford private veterinary care.
 
The Veterinary Clinic at SAGA may be simple, but it is effective and is probably as good as many clinics around Belize.  SAGA would love to modernize and has just completed a purpose built isolation unit towards this goal.  SAGA has also received grant money for purchase of an anesthesia machine and other modern equipment, and would continue to seek more of the same if its attention were not distracted by this campaign of harassment.
 
SAGA has been visited by many vets in Belize and some have worked there.  None have complained about the quality of facilities.  SAGA does not offer a high level of pay for vets in their employ as compared to the First World (it is actually a rather competitive wage for San Pedro, we understand many professionals do not make as much per week as SAGA offers) - they cannot compete because they operate as a not-for-profit, but this also means that those attracted to the position are (usually) committed to animal welfare and the principles of a Humane Society and are not profit driven individuals.  This does not make them bad veterinarians, quite the contrary.  These are usually extraordinary people who care passionately for animals.   If there is anyone who is suffering due to unfair competition it is the well established SAGA Humane Society Veterinary clinic, which has been operating for many years as a non profit, only interested in animal welfare.
 
Humane Societies and animal welfare organizations internationally operate their own subsidized veterinary clinics.  In fact, there are many non-profit organizations around the world that were established exclusively to provide low cost veterinary care to the poor.  They seem to operate in conjunction and cooperation with private practices with no problem at all and have good working relationships.  SAGA has made many attempts to try to cooperate with Dr. Droke and has been, unfortunately knocked back repeatedly with abusive and unpleasant emails.  Not to mention the fact that SAGA was forced to ask the police to tell Dr. Droke to stay away from SAGA Humane Society when she started to harass and intimidate the staff there with repeated phone calls and threats (on one occasion while standing in the front yard of SAGA’s property, she yelled out to SAGA’s Clinic Manager that she was going to take SAGA down and take her down).  SAGA can provide you with the email communications to support this should the Veterinary Licensing Board wish to see them.
 
We have also discovered since Dr. Droke’s departure that she without permission obtained electronic copies of all of SAGA’s client records, and has been utilitzing them to contact SAGA’s clients directly to market her services. We know this because our clients have reported these phone calls to us and have also stated that when they visited her clinic, she has access to client history information that could only have been established at SAGA.
 
SAGA would suggest that Dr. Droke focus on promoting her veterinary clinic, running her business and competing fairly and not try to undermine and hinder a non-profit organization. We believe that this is a case of sour grapes as Dr. Droke left the employ of SAGA Humane Society on bad terms following her removal from the Humane Society Board.  We also believe that it is further fueled by her anger that our Clinic Manager did not accept her offer of employment at her private clinic but rather chose to remain with SAGA. She is clearly intent on closing down an organization that has been serving Belizeans for many years and hopes to continue to do so. 
 
If Dr. Droke succeeds in her mission to close down SAGA Humane Society Veterinary Clinic, it will be a great disservice to all of the locals who depend on it for animal care and who have shown their support towards it over the years.  SAGA also does not believe in unfair competition and this is exactly what Dr. Droke is doing with this constant harassment. Belizeans deserve choice and they deserve cover when the private veterinary clinic is not open.
 
Respectfully Yours,
s/
Saga Humane Society
Board of Directors
 
 
 

bandwagon lol yeah duh, and you peter, amanda, and lara obviously aren't?

i have the balls to draw my line in the sand and YES i am on SAGAs side. Do the same and plant your flag. No one is afforded ALL the facts, we know and learn what we can and we make a decision, and the MAJORITY of us and I have done that.

AC

AC, sent you a message on FB.

opinions vary

AC, are you sure you know about which and whom you are speaking/writing? People who have lived and worked and still do live and work in San Pedro?

beth, just hit me up on facebook i dont wanna keep going back and forth with you on here, its pointless and im sure annoying to others. lets just chat over there on IM's im sure we can cover much more ground.

thanks

AC

we were contacted a few days ago by Peter and Laurie offering to come to Caye Caulker once a week or so to be our Island Vet...at twice the price we currently charge for services...Peter made a point to say they were private Vets and not non profit Vets...also Laurie could not spend the night here due to the lack of air conditioning...Whats air conditioning..I have lived here for 8 yrs without it...God Bless SAGA...they sent us a Vet team and in one day we spay and neutered 19 animals...it cost us out of donation money $140. BZ$....private Vets wont and dont canvas the neighborhoods..the country will regress. Locals cant afford $100 TO $200 bze to spay and neuter their animals as private Vets ask and that's the bottom line.............

Hello iluvbelize, I am really impressed with your reasoning skills, would love to debate with you a little further, but I have to get back on the bandwagon!

Gaz Cooper......I always respected you..please do your homework..
From another Cooper....

I think with 190 spays and neuters last week and on average 40 to 50 per month I think its clear where the money is going

but if SAGA is a non profit charity then books should be made available yearly in there AGM

Gaz

To which post of mine are you replying to that i should do homework

regards

Gaz

GAZ..To me thats a bit Vague..we had the same Vet on Caye Caulker for one day and did 19 spay, neuters..a Gods send...we made no profit but charged nothing..we got some donations and at the end tally we spent $140.. OF OUR MONEY TO HELP THE COMMUNITY...SAGA..DONATED US A CAT TRAP...opps Cap locks on again...again excuse me ..we are a new Humane Society...on a small Island doing good things..please explain what you mean by where the money is going..?? I would assume SAGA spends hundreds a day in expenses..taxis..dog food..we actually made $500 in donations that day, but with just basic expenses..we spent that and then took out $140. of our own money....our books are open for viewing at any time..

OK i understand now I was wondering what i had said that was off mark.

So its back to SAGA about where there money goes and the fact that there books are apparently not open to the public.

Maybe SAGA can comment on that as it is something that is repeatedly coming up where people are implying that something untoward is going on with regards to the funds that SAGA receives and things don't add up.

Without detracting away from the subject of SAGA possibly closing down as that is the current subject maybe SAGA can clarify the funds issue as it will always be an issue when a NON profit organization does not report on how much and where its funds are being used if that is indeed the case.

That is not an unreasonable request if people are donating money to a Non profit organization accounts should be available for credability.

That does not change the fact of the obvious good work they do for the island and community and I am sure it costs a lot to run and organization such as SAGA however this should be addressed at a later date after SAGA gets its full time Vet and there business is secure.

Gaz

Why is it such an issue re the number of spays/neuters which took place in a week? If a vet is strictly performing these surgeries, it is completely possible. If a vet is treating animials, seeing clients, running tests, etc. the numbers won't be the same. My father was a veterinarian for 50 years here in California and had his own hospital. He could neuter a cat in 15 minutes...just another day in the life.

i just spent 9 months in corozal, and it is heartbreaking to see all the strays...i've mentioned that someone should start up a place like SAGA there...i wanted to spend 2 weeks in san pedro, before returning to the states, but with the 10 day restriction on the health permit, i could only spend 1 week...the reason for this was i would have had to pay double what i was charged in corozal to bring my cat home with me...i'll be adding my name to the petition, as well

Suggesting that SAGA's financial records are not available to anyone who wants to see them is completely baseless in my experience. All anyone has to do is contact them and ask. I did, and much to my surprise I found that they produce financials on a weekly basis. They are obliged to keep detailed accounts to maintain their charitable status. For goodness sake people, if you have questions about the operations of SAGA, it is really easy to contact them. Don't spread insinuations and baseless accusations without checking the facts. SAGA is an organisation run by hard working volunteers, please don't make their lives more difficult by not making a little effort to contact them. They can't afford to sit here and monitor message boards all day. They have to care for their families and earn a living as well as running SAGA, which in itself appears to be more than a full time occupation.

Hi Colly

There have been several innuendos that SAGA does not provide access to books (not by me) I am happy you have cleared that up and are saying they do have open books and anyone can request to see them.

I actually was thinking that since they are a non for profit they would have to have open books and provide a yearly independant audit, however I dont really understand why they dont show any of that information online on there site it might increase donations if people can see proper financials.

Again glad you cleared that up and now anyone can go there and see accounting and yearly audit.

Gaz

Apparently many people have contacted 'them' and have not been given access to any financial information of SAGA and have been met with rude and sometimes bizarre behavior from members of SAGA's board and its supporters. I know this was my personal experience in attempting to dialogue with one particular spokesman for SAGA.

KMA short

Iluv, you are super biased on this, and I am sure no matter what SAGA does you will be dumping on them

"super biased"? Likewise Marty - your rants and raves are clearly on one side and against the other. I signed the petition and stated thereon that I request SAGA be issued a vet license. What more can I do to help that failing organization? I will continue to state the facts as I know them and suggest SAGA reorganize to function as a proper shelter.

From a friend, a quote from Laurie Droke:

"Needs of communities change over time, and San Pedro no longer needs Saga Humane Society to function as a private clinic."
"It is my understanding that veterinary boards exist to support real veterinarians, not humane societies."

Yes iluv, I am super biased on one side too. Good point. But please don't deny your bias, especially as you refer to SAGA as "that failing organization." hahaha in your dreams....

you are the voice of bad peter

You are a gossip monger Marty. I stand by my statements. SAGA is crying wolf about closing its doors - however, it will continue to lack donation funds by running itself into the ground with its board's mismanagement.

and time after time i have only seen you to be a name-slinger and personal-insulter to anyone who doesn't agree with you on any given topic whatsoever no matter what it is.

I call them like I see them Jane. Once again, you add nothing of substance to the conversation. Just sayin'.

Again, I repeat. Please do not listen to gossip. If you wish to see SAGA's accounts, please contact them directly. They are completely transparent. Anyone who says otherwise is extremely misinformed and hurting SAGA by telling untruths.

This thread is no longer providing usefull information to anyone and is starting to turn ugly with name calling and attacks. Regardless of the history between SAGA and Dr. Droke, the fact remains that SAGA needs a full time vet in order to support itself.

If you want SAGA to continue operations, sign the petition. the end.