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#387159 - 09/06/10 09:59 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
catdance62	And post clothing and shoe sizes.
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#387164 - 09/07/10 06:22 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: collyk]
Timmy	Who is looking for the children? Who is putting an account for their families? If you want gov't support you need to remember that this was a tragedy that hurt many. And we need to know who is investigating the whole thing and who is looking for the children and be a part of the process. Why were the neighbors so mad? A big outreach is always necessary when nature reserves are established so misunderstandings can be addressed in an early process that is very inclusive with those that live nearby. AC will be more receptive to a proposal if the benefits are jobs and money. Never let the perception that non-blizeans believe that critters are more imporatant than human children...not that it is true...but some think it and say it and others need to be able to challenge these lies. People got crazy in Guatemala thinking children were being stolen by outsiders. We need all the facts posted and updated with the truth and actions being taken or not taken. For what it is worth.
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#387177 - 09/07/10 09:16 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty	Crocodile Sanctuary in Belize Destroyed by Mob ACES team captures a problematic croc on Ambergris Caye. Press Release - Amercian Crocodile Education Sanctuary - September 6, 2010 - In the early morning hours of September 5th, a frenzied mob of Mayan-Belizean villagers set fire to the American Crocodile sanctuary that a Colorado,USA couple spent the last six years creating. “We’ve lost everything,” said Cherie Chenot-Rose, co-owner and founder of the American Crocodile Sanctuary for Education (ACES). The sanctuary was located in Punta Gorda, Belize. The mob was apparently riled in to a frenzy by a Mayan “psychic” who claimed that two children, who have been missing for the last week, had been fed to the crocodiles at the sanctuary. It is alleged that the same group of villagers are responsible for burning other homes in the past several months in the Toledo District, the southern most portion of Belize. Luckily, Cherie and her husband Vince Rose were in San Pedro on the island of Ambergris Caye when the mob attacked. At the request of the Belize Forest Department the team were rescuing three problem crocs, and meeting with top Belize tourism officials discussing the prospect of creating an American Crocodile sanctuary on the island. Reports are that the mob shot and killed some of the 17 crocs held in captivity at the sanctuary. Also destroyed were the Rose’s two story home that included a laboratory and nursery for baby crocs. One baby American Crocodile was to be flown to Chicago to the Wildlife Discovery Center in Lake Forest, Ill. USA for the first ever animal exchange program between Belize and the USA. Over $2,500 in vet supplies that were recently donated for a new humane society that Cherie, along with other locals were working on in Punta Gorda were also lost. “This one wrongful incident has effected and hurt many innocent people and animals,” added Cherie. Also destroyed by the fire were two cabañas where visiting guests and research students would stay. Vince and Cherie are now homeless and do not have anything to their name, said Cherie. “Our lives have been threatened if we return to Punta Gorda,” she said. “We are not sure how to handle the situation, but the villagers and the country of Belize need to be held accountable,” stressed Rose. Seeking help from the United States Embassy in Belize proved to be fruitless. “They just told us what it will cost to replace our passports,” Vince grumbled. The two missing children have yet to be found. They were reportedly in Punta Gorda with their father and uncle to sell lime and craboo on Monday and were last seen in Cattle Landing Village a few miles out of town. “We pray these children turn up safely,” said Cherie. The Roses were not connected with the children in any way. The Roses were in San Pedro at the time the children disappeared. Social media sites including facebook.com and belizeforums.com are buzzing with discussions about the ACES tragedy. “As all the emails come in with help and prayers I'm having a hard time holding it together,” wrote Cherie on her FACEBOOK page. “God Bless you all for being there… We have lost literally everything of our lives. Not just what we built here the past 6 years, but everything…This is going to be a long hard process, but we are going to fight and not run away. There will be another ACES somewhere … some day. Heart broken, but happy Vince and I are unharmed.” Donations can be made: International wiring account number for donations Belize Bank # 630-1-1-10130 Account# Vince & Cherie Rose Fire Victim Account Related links: http://www.americancrocodilesanctuary.org/ http://www.facebook.com/aces.american.crocodiles ACES compound on the Rio Grande River in Punta Gorda, Belize
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#387181 - 09/07/10 09:25 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty	Chaos In Punta Gorda Tonight two children, a 9 year old boy and an 11 year old girl from San Marcos Villagers are missing. The worst is feared because they have been missing for over a week. And their disappearance has caused an uproar in Punta Gorda Town. Villagers from San Marcos feel the police have been casually ignoring them - and that bitterness culminated yesterday when a home was burnt down. But tensions started to boil over from early Sunday morning when armed villagers - about 100 of them - showed up outside the PG police station demanding that police go and search an American couple's home in the Water Hole Area. Police didn't accede to the demands and shortly after the home was on Fire. We got this video from our friends at PGTV:…. *Jules Vasquez, Reporting* This is Vincent Rose's home in the water Hole Area outside of Punta Gorda at about 10:30 yesterday morning. The house was set on fire by an angry mob who believe that Rose was somehow responsible for these two missing children, Benjamin 9 and Onelia Rash 11 - who disappeared 17 days earlier. This is information the villagers got from an oracle and passed unto police: Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer "September 2nd, I am going back a little, police received a report that the owner Vince Rose of Croc Land in Toledo - they believed that these children were being held there against their will. Police conducted searches on the premises and it was fruitless. The reason I am mentioning that is because...." *Jules Vasquez* "They reached that conclusion based on what information?" Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer "Well the family claims that they consulted an oracle and, Jules, when your children are missing, whatever lead given to us we will follow." But they followed it and nothing was found at Rose's home or his adjoining property, the American crocodile education sanctuary. But the villagers were fixed on the notion that Rose somehow knew about the missing children. So a mob went to his home in the water Hole Area outside of PG and burnt it down. Rose was in San Pedro when it happened Vince Rose, Owner of house "I am still at a shock and all I've done since I've heard of this is me and my wife crying. It's just unacceptable that a pre-meditated group of savages - and they are not human beings, they are savages - they should not even be out on the streets; they should all be in prison because they are not human beings. It was pre-meditated and they are savages and I am going back to see if any of the animals are alive or dead. That's unacceptable. Belizeans should be ashamed of themselves to allow people to live in their country that are savages." *Jules Vasquez* "For the avoidance of doubt, do you have any idea, do you know anything about these kids?" Vince Rose, Owner of house "I never knew anything about the kids missing until Thursday, the day I left to come to this island to go and catch crocs. 4 boys showed up at my front gate with machetes and asked if I heard anything about a missing child. I said no. I don't know anything about it; I didn't heard anything about it and at that time they did not ask me 'Vince can we just walk around and search' sure I would have let you - come on in and I'll give you a tour of the whole place. No they didn't ask me nothing, they went on their way. I thought nothing of it, got on a plane, came here, caught 3 crocodiles, tied them up and put them at Tamara Sniffin's place, got the phone call from the police department that I had no more ACES." After the fire, police intercepted the mob, took control of their bus and their arms which included machetes and rifles and detained the still enraged group at the PG station. They feel that police have ignored them because they are friendly to Rose: Angry villager "From Monday we make a report. No police, no BDF come and assist us in the San Marcos Village. No BDF or police came, something is wrong somewhere." Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer "Like you rightfully mention they were highly armed but for some miraculous reason these persons were disarmed and contained. Yes, additional personnel and BDF had to be brought in but at the end of the day these persons were escorted to the Punta Gorda police Station where the disarming took place." Disarmed and detained - after the fact - when the police should have known where they were heading. *Jules Vasquez* "Did the police fail to protect property? I was all the way in Belize City and I knew that they are going from the police station to burn down the man house. No oracle told me." Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer "In all fairness to the police department. That's Mr. Rose's private property, Mr. Rose had a wooden building on his property that was properly secured by burglar bars. You are saying that the rumors were going around that they were going to burn that building. The police did everything in their power to secure that building, but fire, we cannot prevent fire." *Jules Vasquez* "But you can prevent people from going to set a fire." Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer "Jules, if you are going to set a fire; will you go into the front entrance to that property?" The fact is though that the police were neither at the front or the back - they came after and now Vincent Rose says he only has the clothes on his back: Vince Rose, Owner of house "My whole life that I built as a little boy is gone. I didn't just move here with a couple of bags, my whole life that I had was there and I know material things but they have meaning to me and my wife besides all the hard work we did. So Punta Gorda lost out because that sanctuary is gone; so is the education; so is any help. This is going to go on every news station I can ever get to internationally. I guess I have to go back like when I was 18 years and go find a job and a place to live and go buy some underwear and maybe some shampoo and start all over because I got nothing." The men were detained until around noon yesterday and then released without charge. Police say a special team is investigating. The villagers went back to the police station this afternoon and started a picket which lasted three hours. San Marcos has cancelled school for a week. There were 17 crocodiles housed at ACE which is next to the house that was on fire. None of them escaped but reports are that one was shot and one was hacked with a machete. The physical damage to the structure is estimated at one million dollars - it was not insured. And having seen the damage Rose said he plans to move the crocodiles to San Pedro - where he will set up a mini sanctuary if he can find financing.. But even as the uproar on all sides increases - the most worrying aspect of the case is that the children are still missing. Police say they were selling fruits for their family when they went missing on Monday August 30th: Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer "The father, a farmer of San Marcos Village in Toledo, visited the Punta Gorda Police Station on Monday August 30th where he reported that his 2 children was sent to Punta Gorda Town to sell lime and craboo and they have not return home since. Our investigation led us to the southern highway somewhere in Cattle Landing Village where the children were last seen around 3:45 pm where it is believe that they were trying to catch a ride to go back home to San Marcos Village. On Friday September 3rd, 50 police recruits were sent to this area along with special constables from Toledo, Toledo police personnel and the search intensified because from the 30th until the 3rd and we haven't found them. We believe that the need to intensify this search was there." Police say that with those recruits, they have over 100 persons looking for kids - but so far they have not been found and there are no leads. Channel 7
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#387188 - 09/07/10 09:42 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty	Mayan villagers torch Crocodile Sanctuary At the top of the newscast, we told you that the property of Vincent Rose, a U.S. crocodile expert who has been running a sanctuary a few miles outside of Punta Gorda Town, was on Sunday completely destroyed by fire. News Five’s Isani Cayetano was back in Punta Gorda today and has more on this developing story. Isani Cayetano, Reporting A busload of residents from San Marcos Village visited the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary, ACES, on Sunday to conduct a search for Onelia and Benjamin Rash. The property, according to information given by a local fortune teller, was reportedly where the siblings were being held hostage. The owner who is accused of abducting the children to feed crocodiles was in San Pedro when he received news that ACES was on fire. Rose says his life has been destroyed simply based on superstition. Vincent Rose Vincent Rose, Owner, ACES “I guess it came from a psychic! So let’s go with facts. Who we are what we do with a spotless record; now go with what a psychic is saying. My whole life is ruined and so is some of Toledo’s tourism now. The Maya community should be ashamed of itself. They burned the wrong man’s house down and destroyed a future entity for their own Toledo District.” Isani Cayetano “A mob of villagers in search of Oneila and Benjamin Rash descended upon the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary on Sunday morning—rifles and machetes in hand—where they proceeded to torch the property.” According to Kenyatta Garnett of the Punta Gorda Fire Service an investigation into the arson has been launched and the department has joined forces with Punta Gorda police to ascertain its cause. Kenyatta Garnett, O.C. Punta Gorda Fire Station kenyatta garnett “We’re definitely treating it as a case of arson based on the finding and the layout of the fire scene at this time.” Isani Cayetano “What is the preliminary investigation looking like at this point?” Kenyatta Garnett “Right now it’s coming around. We are doing our best to find out exactly what caused the fire and how the fire really started and thing at this time.” The crocodile sanctuary was a million dollar investment that was set up to protect humans against them. Rose has indicated that he will be taking full legal action against the Mayan Community. Isani Cayetano “Do you plan on taking any legal recourse against anyone who may be found culpable of committing the crime of arson on your property?” Vincent Rose “Arson, attempted murder, trespassing, all the above, yes I will be taking very strong measures.” Despite burning down the property Oneila and Benjamin Rash remain missing while the Mayan community today picketed the Punta Gorda Police Station. The children’s father, Pedro Rash, says their search over weekend was futile. Pedro Rash, Father of Missing Children “So far now, police and some of my villagers deh around and investigate more and look for the two child and the person we are waiting for I understand he is here now.” Isani Cayetano “There has been some controversy in the information that you were said to have gotten from a bush doctor regarding the whereabouts of your children. Could you speak to us a bit about that? Pedro Rash “Whether it could be so or not, I have evidence there by myself because we went there with the police along and one of my village members see what is there and that is the lime. I get some few lime there and that is what we see inside the house. That’s why we expect the police to get into the house or call that person and come in.” That person was Vincent Rose. He flew down to Punta Gorda today where he gave a statement and accompanied police to the premises to complete their investigation. Reporting for News Five, I am Isani Cayetano.
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#387230 - 09/07/10 04:37 PM

Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]

Marty

CNN STORY

Belize mob torches Americans' animal sanctuary but their will survives

A psychic told Maya villagers the Americans were connected with the disappearance of two children

The 36-acre sanctuary protected two species of endangered crocodiles

No arrests have been made in the arson, national police said Tuesday

Americans Cherie and Vince Rose vow to stay in Belize and start all over

Buildings on Cherie and Vince Rose's 36-acre sanctuary before and after an angry mob torched it on Sunday.

(CNN) -- An American couple in Belize struggled Tuesday to figure out their future, their dreams literally up in smoke after a mob of indigenous Mayans burned down their animal sanctuary in the belief the foreigners fed two missing children to crocodiles on their property.

Cherie and Vince Rose moved to the tiny Central American nation in 2004 to form a 36-acre sanctuary for two species of endangered crocodiles found in Belize -- the American and Morelet's crocodiles.

Bit by bit, their hope turned into reality. They built a two-story octagonal-shaped house that rested on stilts and reached 30 feet into the air. They constructed two smaller cottages for researchers and students to stay in. They dug out two acres of canals for the crocodiles. They acquired two boats.

They called the place the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary.

Most of it vanished Sunday morning, when a throng of angry villagers from a settlement about 10 miles away torched the buildings on their property. The villagers had been told by a local psychic that the Americans had fed the two missing children to the 17 crocodiles at the sanctuary, police say.

The Roses were rescuing three crocodiles on a distant island at the time, so were not home to ward off the attack -- or possibly suffer a gruesome fate.

"It was like something out of a Frankenstein movie," Cherie Rose said Tuesday. "If we'd been home, they would have killed us. They said they were going to chop us up and feed us to the crocodiles."

National police confirm that the indigenous Maya villagers were acting on the advice of a psychic who said the Roses had something to do with the August 7 disappearance of 9-year-old Benjamin Rash and his 11-year-old sister Onelia.

"They have their own superstitions," deputy police commissioner James Magdaleno said about the Maya, who make up about 10 percent of Belize's population. "Because of their beliefs, they decided to take the law into their own hands."

No arrests have been made, the deputy commissioner told CNN.

"We don't know who burned the house," he said. "That is still under investigation."

Police also questioned Vince Rose about the missing children but no connection was established, Magdaleno said Tuesday.

For the Roses, the drama unfolded in excruciating slow motion from far away.

They traveled August 29 to rescue some crocodiles on Ambergris Caye, a Caribbean Sea island off the northeastern coast of Belize. Their sanctuary in Punta Gorda is on the Caribbean coast in southeastern Belize, more than five hours away by land and airplane.

On Friday, September 3, the couple received phone calls friends saying that truckloads of people from the village of San Marcos were on their way to the sanctuary to burn it down. The Roses sent their caretaker to the compound, but everyone was gone by the time he got there. The area around the two cottages had been trashed, though.

The Roses got more calls from friends Saturday, again telling them that villagers with shotguns and machetes were on their way to the sanctuary. The caretaker was afraid to got out there, Cherie Rose said, so they called police that night. The police said they couldn't go on the property because the Roses' two mixed-breed dogs were barking and would not allow them to enter, Cherie Rose recounted.

"By 9 a.m. Sunday, we were receiving frantic calls and texts," Cherie Rose said.

By the time police got there, it was too late.

"They told us, 'Oh, we're sorry. Your place is burning to the ground as we speak,' " Cherie Rose said.

Life has been numbingly painful since.

"We're in shock," she said. "We're totally devastated."

Vince Rose still found it difficult to talk about Tuesday, having to stop several times during a phone interview to compose himself.

"They lost everything," deputy commissioner Magdaleno said Tuesday.

Well, maybe not quite everything. Their two dogs -- Rio and Maya -- survived.

So did their spirit. They don't know quite how, but they vow to stay in Belize and start all over.

"We love what we do and the adventure is just incredible," said Cherie Rose, who is 44 and said she has a biology degree from Slippery Rock University in Pennsylvania. "We do more in one day than some people do in a lifetime.

"We are going to stay in Belize. We are going to fight this. I'm not abandoning those crocodiles down there."

Her 48-year-old husband agrees.

"What we created was absolutely beautiful," Vince Rose said. "No, I'm not going. We're not letting them run us out of this country."

STORY

Edited by Marty (09/08/10 01:00 PM)
Edit Reason: add pics

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#387251 - 09/08/10 02:37 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Mike Campbell	This tragic incident does highlight some extreme cultural differences. Many who move here see only the similarities but have not lived the life of the Belizean. Yes Belize people and Maya believe in witchcraft and sorcery and divination because they have experienced it and seen it work. The inquisition was particularly brutal and thorough including burning of all written records because the Maya magic worked while the catholic magic did not. Statements about a failed civilization are hollow and seem condescending considering the Maya ruled this part of the world for around 3,000 years. I have lived among the Maya people for 30 years and find them very friendly to all foreigners, with some exceptions of course. Lets see how long this environmentally destructive industrial/capitalistic system can go without falling apart. The whole world has jumped on the 2012 band wagon when in fact it is a Maya event. Failed civilization may not be the right description. Until recent years a sexual predator prowling for children in Belize was unheard of and children are still raised by the village and go all over. In the last ten years the large influx of foreigners has changed that somewhat. If something happened to your child it was usually a drowning, poisonous snake or sometimes a croc or they ran away (usually teenagers). Crocs are probably the very most aggressive animal on the planet, poke it with a stick and it will try to take the stick away and come after you and they are fast. Fear of crocs is different from superstition, it comes from factual knowledge of the beast, same with the Tommy Goff. Yes they have a place, far, far, away from people and children. Most all rural Belizeans would kill out all the crocs anywhere around their rivers and children except it is against the law now. Crocs still kill people in Belize although I think it has been several years since the last one.. Many folks living along the canals in San Pedro have chain link fences along the canal, not against crime but to keep the crocs out. They eat dogs and cats and would not hesitate to take a child. We have had children attacked by crocs right here in San Pedro as well as many pets eaten. These are facts. I was surprised to learn there was no watchman on duty 24/7 on the compound considering the clear danger these animals present. Acknowledge the possibility that the kids could have gone to gather limes and look at the crocs and fell in. I am in no way suggesting that happened but a parent who has grown up being taught that they are dangerous beasts could see it as a possibility when all other possibilities have been ruled out. My son has come home with croc bites because he climbed the fence behind WASA and he was playing where he was not supposed to. Playing with baby crocs and teasing the mother, if she could have caught him she would have eaten him for sure. I believe the residents were acting against the crocs and the individuals giving them sanctuary secondarily. It seems nothing was done to defuse the situation. It is very difficult to legally search the premises without the owner. If the owners had been present along with the police and the villagers been allowed access so they could see for themselves it might not have escalated. It could have been an educational opportunity. Nothing I am saying should be construed as approving of what happened in anyway. I noticed one outraged post saying "what's next burning down the police station?" Well as a matter of fact some of the town (San Pedro Town), a mob if you will, did burn down the San Pedro police station in the not too distant past. Those of you who do not realize where you are living should be paying close attention to all this. It seems the PG police did nothing to prevent this crime or effectively search for the missing children. It seems the Police must have known what was going to happen, thats a better law suit. I have spoken to a few San Pedro residents, all young Belizean and but not all indigenous people and the fear of crocs and poisonous snakes is intense and real. They without exception say they dont want ACES here.
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#387263 - 09/08/10 09:32 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty	very well said Mike....
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#387265 - 09/08/10 09:34 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Mike Campbell]
Amanda Syme	Mike, recently you have written quite a few posts that I don't wholly agree with - but in this particular case I applaud you and appreciate how you have fairly succinctly laid out the "reasons" why this incident occurred. News reports state that the village is 10 miles away from the sanctuary so I don't know if kids would wander that far away for a look see of the crocs. But then you mentioned the story about your son - I remember hollering at many people's kids at the WASA pond because they were taunting crocs. One day one of our kids might get seriously hurt because of their curiosity. I have found that the southern Belize is an amazing beautiful part of the country. The mountains, the forests, the coast line. The people are intriguing and friendly and loving - most of the time. What has stopped me from considering living in that area is the depth of superstition that integrated and infused into the entire web of everyday life. The superstitions and customs are so different from the way I think and live that I know I would not be able to assimilate well enough to become a part of the community. I have always considered that to be my problem, not their problem. I don't live in Belize because I want to change the place I haven chosen to live in. I want to integrate and grow with the society. San Pedro has been going through a lot of growing pains and as our cultures meld, Caribbean, Central American, Hispanic, Maya, Garifuna, European, Middle Eastern and Chinese as well as other minority groups. We are hitting a lot of road block and we have public forums to educate our community about many subjects. We are making decisions for our future - together. This is why I live in San Pedro. This town may not be perfect, but together we can make it a great place to live and raise our families. In my line of business I always advice my clients that "what you see is what you get." But I also tell them that with time and effort they can become part of the community very quickly. They can gain respect and support for themselves and their causes. The community in San Pedro is willing to listen to presentations, arguments, suggestions - and many new ideas are adopted. In many rural areas of the country that may never be the case. Because folks live in settlement, or separated from each other on farms and ranches - the type of community is different. The harsh reality is that we are in Central America and this is considered the 3rd world for a number of reasons. I am sorry about what happened at ACES as I love and support the work they that have been doing. But I am not surprised about why and how the events unraveled and resulted. I think that if ACES were to set up shop here on Ambergris Caye they will settle in and integrate well. And on a selfish level I would be grateful to have someone here that will assure the well being of our resident crocodiles, and who will assist in protecting our children from these reptiles.
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#387289 - 09/08/10 11:22 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Lan Sluder/Belize First	And then there's this: http://belizean.com/news/search-continue...elize/#more-303
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