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#387090 - 09/05/10 09:39 PM American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed
Marty Offline
ACES / American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary no longer exists

From the facebook page of ACES

by Cherie Renee Chenot-Rose on Sunday, September 5, 2010 at 1:10pm:

ACES no longer exists. While Vince and I were on Ambergris Caye rescuing three problematic crocodiles for the Belize Forest Department, two children went missing from a village near Punta Gorda. The local Maya villagers believed that Vince and I fed the missing children to the crocs. We were not even there, as I stated, but were on Ambergris Caye. As a lynch mob, the villagers burnt ACES / American Crocodile Education Sanctuary to the ground. The status of the crocodiles is unknown because the fire is so hot the Belize Defense Forces cannot get to the property. Noone has been arrested. Vince and Cherie are now homeless and do not have anything to their name. Everything was lost. Our lives have been threated if we return to Punta Gorda. We do not even know if our dogs survived. We are not sure how to handle the situation, but the villagers and the country of Belize need to be held accountable. The United States Embassy in Belize in not helping us at all other than making us pay for our new passports. This is insane.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=425044629162&id=1504997330

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#387094 - 09/06/10 12:07 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Wendy Offline
WTF?!? Unbelievable....

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#387095 - 09/06/10 01:35 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Mike Campbell Online   content
Truly insane, Hopefully someone can find their dogs and get them to San Pedro. I think San Pedro could be an excellent new location for this very important project. That would not happen here. Have they had previous problems with locals? Was there any reason to suspect that the crocs were involved at all? Embassy can and will do nothing. All our law enforcement has problems. The police would love to arrest someone, bet on it, they are police. To prove arson the villagers would have to testify against each other? Maya are deathly afraid of crocs and they embody all kinds of evil in their cosmology. Truly incredible, I would have never dreamed of it. Glad they were safe and sound in San Pedro. Lets see what the week brings.

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#387099 - 09/06/10 03:21 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Timmy Offline
Caye man mini-chat was wrong thing to say. Sorry to hear abou your crocodile problem with your neighbors. Maya people very scared of gators. This will be a problem that you will not be able to resolve with them for long time now. Did nobody tell you that neighbors were mad?

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#387101 - 09/06/10 08:12 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Timmy]
natalie p Offline
What about the children? Are they still searching for them?

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#387104 - 09/06/10 09:22 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
dabunk Offline
Children still missing

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#387109 - 09/06/10 10:09 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
bywarren Offline
Originally Posted By: Marty
ACES / American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary no longer exists

From the facebook page of ACES

by Cherie Renee Chenot-Rose on Sunday, September 5, 2010 at 1:10pm:

The United States Embassy in Belize in not helping us at all other than making us pay for our new passports. This is insane.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=425044629162&id=1504997330


I am curious. What is the responsibility and duty of the US Embassy in a case like this?

PS: found this on the web:
We can help:

Replace a stolen passport
Contact family, friends, or employers
Obtain appropriate medical care
Address emergency needs that arise as a result of the crime
Explain the local criminal justice process
Obtain information about your case
Connect you to local and U.S. resources to assist victims of crime
Obtain information about local and U.S. victim compensation programs
Provide a list of local lawyers who speak English
We cannot:

Investigate crimes
Provide legal advice or represent you in court
Serve as official interpreters or translators
Pay legal, medical, or other fees for you


Edited by bywarren (09/06/10 10:24 AM)

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#387115 - 09/06/10 10:26 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
JZB Offline
They were asking if the Embassy would be able to provide them protection so they can return to Punta Gorda and survey the damage without facing the villagers alone. The embassy said they could not help.

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#387117 - 09/06/10 10:31 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Amanda Syme Offline
Embassies don't do that. You would need to hire a private security force or perhaps implore the BDF or police accompany them.

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#387120 - 09/06/10 10:36 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Amanda Syme Offline
That is very sad news about the fire. The local superstitions in the south of Belize are a force to be reckoned with. And the fear of crocodiles and snakes is epic in the community.

Rick and Cherie have done an amazing job. Perhaps they could replicate their work on Ambergris Caye, but I fear that we may not have enough space, and that is before we even talk about expenses.

I hope they can locate their dogs and pick up the pieces to start over again.

This is a sad day for conservation in Belize.

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#387121 - 09/06/10 10:50 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
JZB Offline
Cherie was in San Pedro this week speaking with the Chamber and Minister Heredia about starting an ACES on the island since there are so many crocs here that need rescuing. They are asking for mangrove swamp land and need about 10 acres.

BDF and local Police were on their property since the fire and they were thinking about hiring personal security from San Pedro but since all their possessions are gone, they really cannot afford the hourly wage and plane tickets for a personal security guard. I imagine they will ask the BDF for protection.

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#387122 - 09/06/10 11:16 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Amanda Syme Offline
Well 10 acres sounds like a manageable amount of land for the Government to be able to donate. And have some gorgeous mangrove swamps. I would welcome a crocodile sanctuary here.

Do Rick and Cherie need a place to stay or clothes etc?

Maya is doing a special - $39 one way I think the ad said - to Dangriga.

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#387125 - 09/06/10 12:03 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Timmy Offline
Sounds like many parts to this story. Police are there investigating and one of them should be there while police conduct investigation. When they are finished they may not go back unless they see you intend to continue and want thorough investigation. They may conclude and advise you Not go back. That would make good ability to approach government for suitable area to set up with better community relations. AC will not want this unless it will be income producing for area and employ locals. Tourists may go but to a viewing area but many people will want to be able to go and take tourists. If govt. land it will b very difficult to exclude anyone. Lots of places in the country besides AC.

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#387129 - 09/06/10 02:32 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
JZB Offline
In my opinion AC is the best place for a new ACES. Probably half the crocs they had in PG came from AC in the first place. With all the development going on here and the croc's natural habitat being destroyed, there will be many many more crocs that will need rescuing and a safe home. It doesn't make sense to have to transport them to the other side of the country. An AC ACES will be another great tourist attraction where people can see crocs legally. We also have plenty of beautiful mangrove swamp land. It would be a perfect fit and I support it 100%.

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#387131 - 09/06/10 02:58 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
shuffles Offline
I agree JZB. Since most of the crocs come from here to start with would seem to be an even lower operating cost from here without having to make so many transports.
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#387139 - 09/06/10 05:27 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
LaurieMar Offline
This is so sad.

The highlight of my trip to PG last November was going out to ACES...it truly was an amazing and beautiful place. We were there for a couple of hours and had the place to ourselves. Our taxi driver was offered a tour along with us and he really enjoyed it. Vince even asked us to stick around while he transferred a young croc from a small holding pond to its new home on the grounds. And, we saw Satan, up close....They have done so much for these creatures, relying on donations from visitors, which we gladly gave when we left.

I cannot believe that any crocs at ACES had anything to do with these missing children. They are enclosed and the property is outside of PG a bit, down a jungle road.

A senseless, horrific crime to say the least....

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#387146 - 09/06/10 06:39 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
collyk Offline
Following the arson attack on ACES which has completely demolished their home and facilities an account has been set up at Belize Bank to help provide financial support for Vince and Cherie during this period of crisis for them. Anyone wishing to make a donation can do so by making a deposit into AC # 630-1-1-10130 “Vince and Cherie Rose Fire Victim” account.

International wiring account number for donations
Belize Bank # 630-1-1-10130
Account# Vince & Cherie Rose Fire Victim Account


Edited by collyk (09/06/10 07:37 PM)
Edit Reason: to add international wiring info
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Belize Wedding Photography

http://www.belizebirdrescue.com/bekindbelize.html

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#387151 - 09/06/10 07:25 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
LaurieMar Offline
Thank you colly...this is very recent, but I think some people on this board may also want to contribute by bringing something down for them on their next trip. Maybe start a wish list and donation drop off location.

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#387157 - 09/06/10 09:06 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
catdance62 Offline
Good idea LaurieMar

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#387158 - 09/06/10 09:38 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Amanda Syme Offline
That is a great idea. Very practical.

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#387159 - 09/06/10 09:59 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
catdance62 Offline
And post clothing and shoe sizes.

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#387164 - 09/07/10 06:22 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: collyk]
Timmy Offline
Who is looking for the children? Who is putting an account for their families? If you want gov't support you need to remember that this was a tragedy that hurt many. And we need to know who is investigating the whole thing and who is looking for the children and be a part of the process. Why were the neighbors so mad? A big outreach is always necessary when nature reserves are established so misunderstandings can be addressed in an early process that is very inclusive with those that live nearby. AC will be more receptive to a proposal if the benefits are jobs and money. Never let the perception that non-blizeans believe that critters are more imporatant than human children...not that it is true...but some think it and say it and others need to be able to challenge these lies. People got crazy in Guatemala thinking children were being stolen by outsiders. We need all the facts posted and updated with the truth and actions being taken or not taken. For what it is worth.

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#387177 - 09/07/10 09:16 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty Offline

Crocodile Sanctuary in Belize Destroyed by Mob

ACES team captures a problematic croc on Ambergris Caye.

Press Release - Amercian Crocodile Education Sanctuary - September 6, 2010 - In the early morning hours of September 5th, a frenzied mob of Mayan-Belizean villagers set fire to the American Crocodile sanctuary that a Colorado,USA couple spent the last six years creating. “We’ve lost everything,” said Cherie Chenot-Rose, co-owner and founder of the American Crocodile Sanctuary for Education (ACES). The sanctuary was located in Punta Gorda, Belize.

The mob was apparently riled in to a frenzy by a Mayan “psychic” who claimed that two children, who have been missing for the last week, had been fed to the crocodiles at the sanctuary. It is alleged that the same group of villagers are responsible for burning other homes in the past several months in the Toledo District, the southern most portion of Belize.

Luckily, Cherie and her husband Vince Rose were in San Pedro on the island of Ambergris Caye when the mob attacked. At the request of the Belize Forest Department the team were rescuing three problem crocs, and meeting with top Belize tourism officials discussing the prospect of creating an American Crocodile sanctuary on the island.

Reports are that the mob shot and killed some of the 17 crocs held in captivity at the sanctuary. Also destroyed were the Rose’s two story home that included a laboratory and nursery for baby crocs. One baby American Crocodile was to be flown to Chicago to the Wildlife Discovery Center in Lake Forest, Ill. USA for the first ever animal exchange program between Belize and the USA. Over $2,500 in vet supplies that were recently donated for a new humane society that Cherie, along with other locals were working on in Punta Gorda were also lost. “This one wrongful incident has effected and hurt many innocent people and animals,” added Cherie.

Also destroyed by the fire were two cabañas where visiting guests and research students would stay.

Vince and Cherie are now homeless and do not have anything to their name, said Cherie. “Our lives have been threatened if we return to Punta Gorda,” she said. “We are not sure how to handle the situation, but the villagers and the country of Belize need to be held accountable,” stressed Rose.

Seeking help from the United States Embassy in Belize proved to be fruitless. “They just told us what it will cost to replace our passports,” Vince grumbled.

The two missing children have yet to be found. They were reportedly in Punta Gorda with their father and uncle to sell lime and craboo on Monday and were last seen in Cattle Landing Village a few miles out of town. “We pray these children turn up safely,” said Cherie. The Roses were not connected with the children in any way. The Roses were in San Pedro at the time the children disappeared.

Social media sites including facebook.com and belizeforums.com are buzzing with discussions about the ACES tragedy. “As all the emails come in with help and prayers I'm having a hard time holding it together,” wrote Cherie on her FACEBOOK page. “God Bless you all for being there… We have lost literally everything of our lives. Not just what we built here the past 6 years, but everything…This is going to be a long hard process, but we are going to fight and not run away. There will be another ACES somewhere … some day. Heart broken, but happy Vince and I are unharmed.”

Donations can be made:
International wiring account number for donations
Belize Bank # 630-1-1-10130
Account# Vince & Cherie Rose Fire Victim Account

Related links:
http://www.americancrocodilesanctuary.org/



ACES compound on the Rio Grande River in Punta Gorda, Belize


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#387181 - 09/07/10 09:25 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty Offline

Chaos In Punta Gorda

Tonight two children, a 9 year old boy and an 11 year old girl from San Marcos Villagers are missing. The worst is feared because they have been missing for over a week. And their disappearance has caused an uproar in Punta Gorda Town.

Villagers from San Marcos feel the police have been casually ignoring them - and that bitterness culminated yesterday when a home was burnt down.

But tensions started to boil over from early Sunday morning when armed villagers - about 100 of them - showed up outside the PG police station demanding that police go and search an American couple's home in the Water Hole Area. Police didn't accede to the demands and shortly after the home was on Fire. We got this video from our friends at PGTV:….

Jules Vasquez, Reporting
This is Vincent Rose's home in the water Hole Area outside of Punta Gorda at about 10:30 yesterday morning. The house was set on fire by an angry mob who believe that Rose was somehow responsible for these two missing children, Benjamin 9 and Onelia Rash 11 - who disappeared 17 days earlier. This is information the villagers got from an oracle and passed unto police:

Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer
"September 2nd, I am going back a little, police received a report that the owner Vince Rose of Croc Land in Toledo - they believed that these children were being held there against their will. Police conducted searches on the premises and it was fruitless. The reason I am mentioning that is because...."

Jules Vasquez
"They reached that conclusion based on what information?"

Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer
"Well the family claims that they consulted an oracle and, Jules, when your children are missing, whatever lead given to us we will follow."

But they followed it and nothing was found at Rose's home or his adjoining property, the American crocodile education sanctuary.

But the villagers were fixed on the notion that Rose somehow knew about the missing children. So a mob went to his home in the water Hole Area outside of PG and burnt it down. Rose was in San Pedro when it happened

Vince Rose, Owner of house
"I am still at a shock and all I've done since I've heard of this is me and my wife crying. It's just unacceptable that a pre-meditated group of savages - and they are not human beings, they are savages - they should not even be out on the streets; they should all be in prison because they are not human beings. It was pre-meditated and they are savages and I am going back to see if any of the animals are alive or dead. That's unacceptable. Belizeans should be ashamed of themselves to allow people to live in their country that are savages."

Jules Vasquez
"For the avoidance of doubt, do you have any idea, do you know anything about these kids?"

Vince Rose, Owner of house
"I never knew anything about the kids missing until Thursday, the day I left to come to this island to go and catch crocs. 4 boys showed up at my front gate with machetes and asked if I heard anything about a missing child. I said no. I don't know anything about it; I didn't heard anything about it and at that time they did not ask me 'Vince can we just walk around and search' sure I would have let you - come on in and I'll give you a tour of the whole place. No they didn't ask me nothing, they went on their way. I thought nothing of it, got on a plane, came here, caught 3 crocodiles, tied them up and put them at Tamara Sniffin's place, got the phone call from the police department that I had no more ACES."

After the fire, police intercepted the mob, took control of their bus and their arms which included machetes and rifles and detained the still enraged group at the PG station. They feel that police have ignored them because they are friendly to Rose:

Angry villager
"From Monday we make a report. No police, no BDF come and assist us in the San Marcos Village. No BDF or police came, something is wrong somewhere."

Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer
"Like you rightfully mention they were highly armed but for some miraculous reason these persons were disarmed and contained. Yes, additional personnel and BDF had to be brought in but at the end of the day these persons were escorted to the Punta Gorda police Station where the disarming took place."

Disarmed and detained - after the fact - when the police should have known where they were heading.

Jules Vasquez
"Did the police fail to protect property? I was all the way in Belize City and I knew that they are going from the police station to burn down the man house. No oracle told me."

Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer
"In all fairness to the police department. That's Mr. Rose's private property, Mr. Rose had a wooden building on his property that was properly secured by burglar bars. You are saying that the rumors were going around that they were going to burn that building. The police did everything in their power to secure that building, but fire, we cannot prevent fire."

Jules Vasquez
"But you can prevent people from going to set a fire."

Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer
"Jules, if you are going to set a fire; will you go into the front entrance to that property?"

The fact is though that the police were neither at the front or the back - they came after and now Vincent Rose says he only has the clothes on his back:

Vince Rose, Owner of house
"My whole life that I built as a little boy is gone. I didn't just move here with a couple of bags, my whole life that I had was there and I know material things but they have meaning to me and my wife besides all the hard work we did. So Punta Gorda lost out because that sanctuary is gone; so is the education; so is any help. This is going to go on every news station I can ever get to internationally. I guess I have to go back like when I was 18 years and go find a job and a place to live and go buy some underwear and maybe some shampoo and start all over because I got nothing."

The men were detained until around noon yesterday and then released without charge. Police say a special team is investigating.

The villagers went back to the police station this afternoon and started a picket which lasted three hours. San Marcos has cancelled school for a week.

There were 17 crocodiles housed at ACE which is next to the house that was on fire. None of them escaped but reports are that one was shot and one was hacked with a machete.

The physical damage to the structure is estimated at one million dollars - it was not insured. And having seen the damage Rose said he plans to move the crocodiles to San Pedro - where he will set up a mini sanctuary if he can find financing.. But even as the uproar on all sides increases - the most worrying aspect of the case is that the children are still missing. Police say they were selling fruits for their family when they went missing on Monday August 30th:

Fitzroy Yearwood, Police Press Officer
"The father, a farmer of San Marcos Village in Toledo, visited the Punta Gorda Police Station on Monday August 30th where he reported that his 2 children was sent to Punta Gorda Town to sell lime and craboo and they have not return home since. Our investigation led us to the southern highway somewhere in Cattle Landing Village where the children were last seen around 3:45 pm where it is believe that they were trying to catch a ride to go back home to San Marcos Village. On Friday September 3rd, 50 police recruits were sent to this area along with special constables from Toledo, Toledo police personnel and the search intensified because from the 30th until the 3rd and we haven't found them. We believe that the need to intensify this search was there."

Police say that with those recruits, they have over 100 persons looking for kids - but so far they have not been found and there are no leads. Channel 7


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#387188 - 09/07/10 09:42 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty Offline

Mayan villagers torch Crocodile Sanctuary

At the top of the newscast, we told you that the property of Vincent Rose, a U.S. crocodile expert who has been running a sanctuary a few miles outside of Punta Gorda Town, was on Sunday completely destroyed by fire. News Five’s Isani Cayetano was back in Punta Gorda today and has more on this developing story.

Isani Cayetano, Reporting

A busload of residents from San Marcos Village visited the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary, ACES, on Sunday to conduct a search for Onelia and Benjamin Rash. The property, according to information given by a local fortune teller, was reportedly where the siblings were being held hostage. The owner who is accused of abducting the children to feed crocodiles was in San Pedro when he received news that ACES was on fire. Rose says his life has been destroyed simply based on superstition.

Vincent Rose

Vincent Rose, Owner, ACES

“I guess it came from a psychic! So let’s go with facts. Who we are what we do with a spotless record; now go with what a psychic is saying. My whole life is ruined and so is some of Toledo’s tourism now. The Maya community should be ashamed of itself. They burned the wrong man’s house down and destroyed a future entity for their own Toledo District.”

Isani Cayetano

“A mob of villagers in search of Oneila and Benjamin Rash descended upon the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary on Sunday morning—rifles and machetes in hand—where they proceeded to torch the property.”

According to Kenyatta Garnett of the Punta Gorda Fire Service an investigation into the arson has been launched and the department has joined forces with Punta Gorda police to ascertain its cause.

Kenyatta Garnett, O.C. Punta Gorda Fire Station

kenyatta garnett

“We’re definitely treating it as a case of arson based on the finding and the layout of the fire scene at this time.”

Isani Cayetano

“What is the preliminary investigation looking like at this point?”

Kenyatta Garnett

“Right now it’s coming around. We are doing our best to find out exactly what caused the fire and how the fire really started and thing at this time.”

The crocodile sanctuary was a million dollar investment that was set up to protect humans against them. Rose has indicated that he will be taking full legal action against the Mayan Community.

Isani Cayetano

“Do you plan on taking any legal recourse against anyone who may be found culpable of committing the crime of arson on your property?”

Vincent Rose

“Arson, attempted murder, trespassing, all the above, yes I will be taking very strong measures.”

Despite burning down the property Oneila and Benjamin Rash remain missing while the Mayan community today picketed the Punta Gorda Police Station. The children’s father, Pedro Rash, says their search over weekend was futile.

Pedro Rash, Father of Missing Children

“So far now, police and some of my villagers deh around and investigate more and look for the two child and the person we are waiting for I understand he is here now.”

Isani Cayetano

“There has been some controversy in the information that you were said to have gotten from a bush doctor regarding the whereabouts of your children. Could you speak to us a bit about that?

Pedro Rash

“Whether it could be so or not, I have evidence there by myself because we went there with the police along and one of my village members see what is there and that is the lime. I get some few lime there and that is what we see inside the house. That’s why we expect the police to get into the house or call that person and come in.”

That person was Vincent Rose. He flew down to Punta Gorda today where he gave a statement and accompanied police to the premises to complete their investigation. Reporting for News Five, I am Isani Cayetano.


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#387230 - 09/07/10 04:37 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
Marty Offline
CNN STORY

Belize mob torches Americans' animal sanctuary but their will survives

  • A psychic told Maya villagers the Americans were connected with the disappearance of two children
  • The 36-acre sanctuary protected two species of endangered crocodiles
  • No arrests have been made in the arson, national police said Tuesday
  • Americans Cherie and Vince Rose vow to stay in Belize and start all over
  • Buildings on Cherie and Vince Rose's 36-acre sanctuary before and after an angry mob torched it on Sunday.
    (CNN) -- An American couple in Belize struggled Tuesday to figure out their future, their dreams literally up in smoke after a mob of indigenous Mayans burned down their animal sanctuary in the belief the foreigners fed two missing children to crocodiles on their property.

    Cherie and Vince Rose moved to the tiny Central American nation in 2004 to form a 36-acre sanctuary for two species of endangered crocodiles found in Belize -- the American and Morelet's crocodiles.

    Bit by bit, their hope turned into reality. They built a two-story octagonal-shaped house that rested on stilts and reached 30 feet into the air. They constructed two smaller cottages for researchers and students to stay in. They dug out two acres of canals for the crocodiles. They acquired two boats.

    They called the place the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary.

    Most of it vanished Sunday morning, when a throng of angry villagers from a settlement about 10 miles away torched the buildings on their property. The villagers had been told by a local psychic that the Americans had fed the two missing children to the 17 crocodiles at the sanctuary, police say.

    The Roses were rescuing three crocodiles on a distant island at the time, so were not home to ward off the attack -- or possibly suffer a gruesome fate.

    "It was like something out of a Frankenstein movie," Cherie Rose said Tuesday. "If we'd been home, they would have killed us. They said they were going to chop us up and feed us to the crocodiles."

    National police confirm that the indigenous Maya villagers were acting on the advice of a psychic who said the Roses had something to do with the August 7 disappearance of 9-year-old Benjamin Rash and his 11-year-old sister Onelia.

    "They have their own superstitions," deputy police commissioner James Magdaleno said about the Maya, who make up about 10 percent of Belize's population. "Because of their beliefs, they decided to take the law into their own hands."

    No arrests have been made, the deputy commissioner told CNN.

    "We don't know who burned the house," he said. "That is still under investigation."

    Police also questioned Vince Rose about the missing children but no connection was established, Magdaleno said Tuesday.

    For the Roses, the drama unfolded in excruciating slow motion from far away.

    They traveled August 29 to rescue some crocodiles on Ambergris Caye, a Caribbean Sea island off the northeastern coast of Belize. Their sanctuary in Punta Gorda is on the Caribbean coast in southeastern Belize, more than five hours away by land and airplane.

    On Friday, September 3, the couple received phone calls friends saying that truckloads of people from the village of San Marcos were on their way to the sanctuary to burn it down. The Roses sent their caretaker to the compound, but everyone was gone by the time he got there. The area around the two cottages had been trashed, though.

    The Roses got more calls from friends Saturday, again telling them that villagers with shotguns and machetes were on their way to the sanctuary. The caretaker was afraid to got out there, Cherie Rose said, so they called police that night. The police said they couldn't go on the property because the Roses' two mixed-breed dogs were barking and would not allow them to enter, Cherie Rose recounted.

    "By 9 a.m. Sunday, we were receiving frantic calls and texts," Cherie Rose said.

    By the time police got there, it was too late.

    "They told us, 'Oh, we're sorry. Your place is burning to the ground as we speak,' " Cherie Rose said.

    Life has been numbingly painful since.

    "We're in shock," she said. "We're totally devastated."

    Vince Rose still found it difficult to talk about Tuesday, having to stop several times during a phone interview to compose himself.

    "They lost everything," deputy commissioner Magdaleno said Tuesday.

    Well, maybe not quite everything. Their two dogs -- Rio and Maya -- survived.

    So did their spirit. They don't know quite how, but they vow to stay in Belize and start all over.

    "We love what we do and the adventure is just incredible," said Cherie Rose, who is 44 and said she has a biology degree from Slippery Rock University in Pennsylvania. "We do more in one day than some people do in a lifetime.

    "We are going to stay in Belize. We are going to fight this. I'm not abandoning those crocodiles down there."

    Her 48-year-old husband agrees.

    "What we created was absolutely beautiful," Vince Rose said. "No, I'm not going. We're not letting them run us out of this country."

    STORY



    Edited by Marty (09/08/10 01:00 PM)
    Edit Reason: add pics

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    #387251 - 09/08/10 02:37 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    Mike Campbell Online   content
    This tragic incident does highlight some extreme cultural differences. Many who move here see only the similarities but have not lived the life of the Belizean. Yes Belize people and Maya believe in witchcraft and sorcery and divination because they have experienced it and seen it work. The inquisition was particularly brutal and thorough including burning of all written records because the Maya magic worked while the catholic magic did not.

    Statements about a failed civilization are hollow and seem condescending considering the Maya ruled this part of the world for around 3,000 years. I have lived among the Maya people for 30 years and find them very friendly to all foreigners, with some exceptions of course. Lets see how long this environmentally destructive industrial/capitalistic system can go without falling apart. The whole world has jumped on the 2012 band wagon when in fact it is a Maya event. Failed civilization may not be the right description.

    Until recent years a sexual predator prowling for children in Belize was unheard of and children are still raised by the village and go all over. In the last ten years the large influx of foreigners has changed that somewhat. If something happened to your child it was usually a drowning, poisonous snake or sometimes a croc or they ran away (usually teenagers).

    Crocs are probably the very most aggressive animal on the planet, poke it with a stick and it will try to take the stick away and come after you and they are fast. Fear of crocs is different from superstition, it comes from factual knowledge of the beast, same with the Tommy Goff. Yes they have a place, far, far, away from people and children. Most all rural Belizeans would kill out all the crocs anywhere around their rivers and children except it is against the law now. Crocs still kill people in Belize although I think it has been several years since the last one.. Many folks living along the canals in San Pedro have chain link fences along the canal, not against crime but to keep the crocs out. They eat dogs and cats and would not hesitate to take a child. We have had children attacked by crocs right here in San Pedro as well as many pets eaten. These are facts.

    I was surprised to learn there was no watchman on duty 24/7 on the compound considering the clear danger these animals present. Acknowledge the possibility that the kids could have gone to gather limes and look at the crocs and fell in. I am in no way suggesting that happened but a parent who has grown up being taught that they are dangerous beasts could see it as a possibility when all other possibilities have been ruled out.

    My son has come home with croc bites because he climbed the fence behind WASA and he was playing where he was not supposed to. Playing with baby crocs and teasing the mother, if she could have caught him she would have eaten him for sure.

    I believe the residents were acting against the crocs and the individuals giving them sanctuary secondarily. It seems nothing was done to defuse the situation. It is very difficult to legally search the premises without the owner. If the owners had been present along with the police and the villagers been allowed access so they could see for themselves it might not have escalated. It could have been an educational opportunity. Nothing I am saying should be construed as approving of what happened in anyway.

    I noticed one outraged post saying "what's next burning down the police station?" Well as a matter of fact some of the town (San Pedro Town), a mob if you will, did burn down the San Pedro police station in the not too distant past. Those of you who do not realize where you are living should be paying close attention to all this.

    It seems the PG police did nothing to prevent this crime or effectively search for the missing children. It seems the Police must have known what was going to happen, thats a better law suit.

    I have spoken to a few San Pedro residents, all young Belizean and but not all indigenous people and the fear of crocs and poisonous snakes is intense and real. They without exception say they dont want ACES here.

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    #387263 - 09/08/10 09:32 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    Marty Offline
    very well said Mike....

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    #387265 - 09/08/10 09:34 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Mike Campbell]
    Amanda Syme Offline
    Mike, recently you have written quite a few posts that I don't wholly agree with - but in this particular case I applaud you and appreciate how you have fairly succinctly laid out the "reasons" why this incident occurred.

    News reports state that the village is 10 miles away from the sanctuary so I don't know if kids would wander that far away for a look see of the crocs. But then you mentioned the story about your son - I remember hollering at many people's kids at the WASA pond because they were taunting crocs. One day one of our kids might get seriously hurt because of their curiosity.

    I have found that the southern Belize is an amazing beautiful part of the country. The mountains, the forests, the coast line. The people are intriguing and friendly and loving - most of the time. What has stopped me from considering living in that area is the depth of superstition that integrated and infused into the entire web of everyday life. The superstitions and customs are so different from the way I think and live that I know I would not be able to assimilate well enough to become a part of the community. I have always considered that to be my problem, not their problem.

    I don't live in Belize because I want to change the place I haven chosen to live in. I want to integrate and grow with the society. San Pedro has been going through a lot of growing pains and as our cultures meld, Caribbean, Central American, Hispanic, Maya, Garifuna, European, Middle Eastern and Chinese as well as other minority groups. We are hitting a lot of road block and we have public forums to educate our community about many subjects. We are making decisions for our future - together. This is why I live in San Pedro. This town may not be perfect, but together we can make it a great place to live and raise our families.

    In my line of business I always advice my clients that "what you see is what you get." But I also tell them that with time and effort they can become part of the community very quickly. They can gain respect and support for themselves and their causes. The community in San Pedro is willing to listen to presentations, arguments, suggestions - and many new ideas are adopted.

    In many rural areas of the country that may never be the case. Because folks live in settlement, or separated from each other on farms and ranches - the type of community is different.

    The harsh reality is that we are in Central America and this is considered the 3rd world for a number of reasons.

    I am sorry about what happened at ACES as I love and support the work they that have been doing. But I am not surprised about why and how the events unraveled and resulted.

    I think that if ACES were to set up shop here on Ambergris Caye they will settle in and integrate well. And on a selfish level I would be grateful to have someone here that will assure the well being of our resident crocodiles, and who will assist in protecting our children from these reptiles.

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    #387289 - 09/08/10 11:22 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    Lan Sluder/Belize First Offline

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    #387350 - 09/08/10 04:26 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    Katie Valk Offline
    I'm posting this for my friend and neighbor, expert Rick Wilk, google him .

    Before people start making posts about 'savages' and calling for revenge and retribution, it is important to put the present incident in historic context. Most people who come to Toledo District have no idea what kind of things the the Q'eqchi' and Mopan Maya have faced over the last few hundred years, which help explain why they are often suspicious of outsiders, especially white people (and lets remember that they are not the only people in the world who can be hostile towards cultures they do not understand - think about the present anti-immigrant movement in the USA, or the public Koran burnings).

    Q'eqchi' and Mopan Maya people once lived peacefully with their own rulers, religion, and communities in southern Belize and Guatemala. They were driven out of their villages and forced to live in 'reduccion' camps (concentration camps) by Spanish conquistadors, and about 90% of the population died from starvation and disease within a hundred years. Their culture was devastated. Right up through the 1930s it was forbidden for them to get an education, and they were treated like slaves on what had once been their own land. Most of the land was illegally taken away and sold to German coffee planters, who got laws passed which required every Indian to carry a permission slip from a German landlord, otherwise they could be thrown in jail and forced to work for free for six months. Indian women were regularly raped by landlords, who were also allowed to flog and discipline men. The Germans deliberately spread stories about how they would kill and eat Indian babies, as a means of terrorizing the communities into submission. Then through the 1930s and 40s, thousands of Indians were drafted to work on railroad and highway projects, where they were paid 10 cents a day, with no provision for feeding their families.

    This all happened before the brutal war by the Guatemalan government against Indian communities in the 1970s and 80s, a time when thousands of Maya people were displaced, as the last of their land was gobbled up for nickel mines, cattle ranches, and illegal logging. Again, many atrocities were committed by government soldiers against women and children - and thousands of Indian children were abducted and sold to families in the city as servants, or illegally adopted. Many of the people now living in Belize suffered through this time - and they remember. The memories are kept alive by telling stories, since very little was ever written down, and remember, they were never allowed to go to school.

    I am absolutely sure that most of the Americans who come to Toledo on various kinds of projects mean well, and do their best to help Belize. But good intentions cannot wash away 500 years of oppression and fear. The native people who live in Toledo have been exploited, denied basic human rights and generally traumatized for a long long time. They treat all white people as potentially harmful, even after many years of acquaintance. It would be nice if we could all forgive and forget, but trauma is not like that - it often appears in strange ways. In much of Guatemala and Central America for the last 30 years there have been widespread rumors in rural and urban areas about white people stealing children for their organs, draining and selling their blood, and abducting children for adoption. There have been a number of incidents where tourists, aid workers and missionaries have been threatened, mobbed, and even lynched. People are afraid, and the political and economic climate has allowed these rumors to flourish - and who knows if some of them may actually be true, or founded on real fears of forced adoption, or organ selling?

    I am not making excuses for the burning of the Crocodile Sanctuary, or the threats against the Roses, which are clearly unjustified. But it is very important to recognize that there is a history here, and foreigners with the best intentions have often fallen afoul of local culture when they have not understood the full context of the things they are trying to change. There are certain historical facts they cannot change with good intentions.

    Professor Richard Wilk has been working with Q'eqchi' and Mopan Maya people in Toledo District for more than 30 years.
    _________________________
    Belize based travel specialist
    www.belize-trips.com
    info@belize-trips.com

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    #387363 - 09/08/10 05:49 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    Amanda Syme Offline
    Thank you for providing us with this insight.

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    #387369 - 09/08/10 06:52 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    dabunk Offline
    And to add to that As a people group they are treated horribly by their own Belizean society. They are still denied land rights and when they are in even PG hospital they are treated horribly. But that does not make it right for what has happened here. This was out and out tragedy. We know both involved and their heart was for Belize and the people of Belize. They were not people who hung out only with other expats and treated Belizeans rudely. This was sensless stupidity and this is not the first time villagers from San Marcos have done things like this.

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    #387371 - 09/08/10 07:12 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destr [Re: Marty]
    GwenA Online   content
    With regard to Amanda's and Dave's posts, I had an interesting conversation with my Belizean housekeeper this AM. She is from the north and says she believes the whole problem is education and access to education. She believes the people of that part of Belize don't get the chance to learn about the world or go to school. I don't know if this is true, as I don't venture much outside of SP. People without access to education don't see the world the same way as those of us who live and travel throughout the world. My grandmother from eastern Kentucky didn't believe men went to the moon, even though her own son worked for NASA and helped send them there. I still say, from taking Early English History in University; law abiding people learned in the 1500's not to take the law into their own hands. You can imagine the level of superstition and education then. Well, it is up to the government, and the government here doesn't seem to understand their responsibility to all of their people. They need to educate and create a real justice system. With regard to the latter we know how that is going.

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    #387372 - 09/08/10 07:28 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destr [Re: Marty]
    Katie Valk Offline
    This is an awful situation-two kids missing and a couple caught in the middle of this horror who lost their worldly possesions and peace of mind. On Ambergris, you know the Yucateca Maya from the north and they along with the Mopan from the west are much more assimiliated, better educated and have developed better coping skills than the Ketchi and Mopan Maya in Toledo, which is in itself, our poorest district in Belize. These are simple agrarian people-plant, hope for rain and sun, harvest enough to feed your family and sell or trade for other goods. The mother of the two kids only speaks Ketchi, so her experience with the outside world is probably limited to market day in PG town. I am not going to romanticize the Maya, nor get into my private feelings about them on a public forum. But I have had many conversations and insight into their thought proccesses. I have had to step in for problem solving. Issues that would seem easy for you or I to resolve. And the reasons are endless-lack of education, resources, health issues. My neighbor was over this morning. She is Mopan from a village in Toledo and was told the kids were fed to the crocs and sort of believes it. Her aunt is related to the kids. Her thinking process is much different than mine, so I make allowances, being that I had a relatively privileged background. These are people who have been marginalized in their own country and their biggest win so far was the recent Maya land rights case they won in court against GOB. They don't work thru the system, don't expect police to help them and they settle problems thru their alcade or on their own, thru force. Add to that a village frantic with worry over the missing kids. What would you do if your two kids were missing and someone told you what had happened to them? How reasonable would you be? Mix in other elements and you get a violent mob, taking their angry frustrations out on who they think is responsible. Devastating for the Rose's and I wish them all the best and my heart goes out to them. When cultures collide. But restitution? Where will these villagers get the money from? But there has to be consequences for their actions. I would love to hear what Chief Justice Conteh would suggest, how the Rose's get justice and what sort of punishment should be levied.
    I want to know where the Maya leaders and alcade's were as this was brewing. Why didn't the police read the situation and take proactive measures. And of course there is history-the present past and going back 400 yrs when the first Spanish landed on these shores. Know your neighbors. As far as being anti foreigner, well, I think the Maya are equal opportunity when it comes to things like this. There's been many fires before, but this happened to a well respected couple in the country who had a sizeable investment go up in smoke, who are foreigners, so it plays out here on these boards, as well as national and intl news. You know how many bodegas been burnt down over jealousy? Jealousy is a spiritual disease in the Maya culture, not a personality trait like it would be with us. I'm not sure I've said anything useful here and think the best we can do is put on our boots and help look for the kids and give a donation to the Rose's and suggest they insure their valuables in the future. But like I said, this incident requires someone with more anthropological info than I have to explain how it escalated to this point. And police or other to find out where the kids are or what happened to them. There is someone out there who does know, unless the kids were lost in a river. Lets hope we find the kids alive and the Rose's have the emotional and economic resources to continue their good work and put this behind them. As with every story in Belize, there is alot behind it, like an onion, you peel one layer to find another. But this is still about the kids. Not the sideshow.
    _________________________
    Belize based travel specialist
    www.belize-trips.com
    info@belize-trips.com

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    #387402 - 09/09/10 09:43 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destr [Re: Marty]
    Marty Offline

    Villagers Gone Mad?

    Crocodile Sanctuary in Punta Gorda Burnt by Angry Villagers

    It has been over a week now that two children, 9-year-old Onelia Rash and 11-year-old Benjamin Rash from San Marcos Village in the Toledo District have been missing and the worst is feared for them and their disappearance has caused uproar in Punta Gorda Town.

    Villagers from San Marcos feel the police have been casually ignoring them - and that bitterness culminated on Sunday, September 5, when a home was burnt down. According to sources an angry mob of armed villagers showed up outside the PG police station demanding the police to go and search an American couple’s home in the Water Hole Area, the American Crocodile Education Sanctuary (ACES). Police didn't give in to the demands and shortly after the home was on fire.

    The house was set on fire by an angry mob who believed that the owners Vince and Cherie Rose were holding the children hostage at their premises; this information was given to the villagers by a local fortune teller (oracle) unto police.

    Luckily the owners of ACES were out of PG and in San Pedro at the request of the Belize Forest Department the team were rescuing three problem crocs, and meeting with top Belize tourism officials discussing the prospect of creating an American Crocodile sanctuary on the island.

    “My whole life is ruined and so is some of Toledo’s tourism now. The Maya community should be ashamed of itself,” commented Vince Rose to Channel 5. “They burned the wrong man’s house down and destroyed a future entity for their own Toledo District.”

    After the fire, police intercepted the mob, took control of their bus and their arms which included machetes and rifles and detained the still enraged group at the PG station. The men were detained until around noon yesterday and then released without charge. Police say a special team is investigating.

    A press release by ACES stated that the Rose’s two story home that included a laboratory and nursery for baby crocs that homed a baby American Crocodile was to be flown to Chicago to the Wildlife Discovery Center in Lake Forest, Ill. USA for the first ever animal exchange program between Belize and the USA. Over $2,500 in vet supplies that were recently donated for a new humane society that Cherie, along with other locals was working on in Punta Gorda were also lost. “This one wrongful incident has effected and hurt many innocent people and animals,” added Cherie in the release.

    Also destroyed by the fire were two cabañas where visiting guests and research students would stay. Vince and Cherie are now homeless and do not have anything to their name. “Our lives have been threatened if we return to Punta Gorda,” she said. “We are not sure how to handle the situation, but the villagers and the country of Belize need to be held accountable,” stressed Rose.

    Seeking help from the United States Embassy in Belize proved to be fruitless. “They just told us what it will cost to replace our passports,” Vince grumbled.

    There were 17 crocodiles housed at ACES which is next to the house that was on fire. None of them escaped but reports are that one was shot and one was hacked with a machete. The physical damage to the structure is estimated at one million dollars - it was not insured. And having seen the damage Rose said he plans to move the crocodiles to San Pedro - where he will set up a mini sanctuary if he can find financing. But even as the uproar on all sides increases - the most worrying aspect of the case is that the children are still missing. Police say they were selling fruits for their family when they went missing on Monday, August 30.

    Vince Rose mentioned to Channel 5 that he would be taking legal action against the Mayan Community and they have also sent several press releases to both national and international media. Social media sites including facebook.com and belizeforums.com are buzzing with discussions about the ACES tragedy, including CNN who posted the story on their home page and has scheduled an interview with the Rose’s.

    It is sad to say that even though the Mayan Community took matters on their hand based on a so called fortune teller and have left two persons homeless, the children are still missing. Police say that they have over 100 persons looking for kids - but so far they have not been found and there are no leads.

    Vince Rose – a croc behaviorist and Cherie Chenot Rose – Biologist lost everything on the fire. Those of you who wish to make a kind contribution can do so at:
    International wiring account number for donations
    Belize Bank # 630-1-1-10130
    Account# Vince & Cherie Rose Fire Victim Account

    Ambergris Today


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    #387416 - 09/09/10 11:05 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destr [Re: Marty]
    Marty Offline
    CNN video of story


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    #389066 - 10/03/10 09:59 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destr [Re: Marty]
    Marty Offline

    Belize Forest Department Issues Press Release Regarding ACES



    September 29, 2010 - The American Crocodile Education Sanctuary ( ACES) has been working under the Authority of the Belize Forest Department since 2006. The sanctuary was established to provide a refuge to ‘problem’ crocodiles which would have otherwise have to be killed. ACES also rehabilitates crocodiles for release back into the wild and has also conducted research in the south of the country.
    ACES was first allowed to capture and relocate problem crocodiles from Punta Gorda, Belize City and Ambergris Caye but with increasing reports of problem crocodiles from other parts of the country, the organization was given the authority to respond to such reports along with the Belize Forest Department.

    ACES has also played an import role in educating locals and foreigners alike on the need for the continued protection of both Morelet's and American Crocodiles in Belize. ACES has been working closely with the Forest Department and have not at any time operated without authorization.



    ###



    Belize Forest Department
    Headquarters: Forest Drive, Belmopan
    Phone Numbers: (501) 822-1524/2079
    Email: wildlife@mnrei.gov.bz
    Fax: 822-1523
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    #389108 - 10/04/10 09:49 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    elbert Offline
    The American crocodile (Crocodylus acutus)is the only thing I've seen on Ambergris Caye . I'm pretty sure we don't have the Morelet.
    The Mata Lagoon is full of American Crocodile and they nest on its shore line behind the Mata Grande area.
    The American crocodile is endangered and Ambergris Caye has them thriving and nesting. Imagine the Tourist draw if we could entice ACES to relocate here on the island.
    I'm sure San Pedro/Ambergris Caye would embrace ACES and we have lots of government owned mangrove and lagoon that could be more secure with an agency looking over it as an endangered species habitat.
    Much harder to build condos on Endangered Species Habitat if its noted as such.
    http://matalagoon.blogspot.com/ http://matalagoon.blogspot.com/
    _________________________
    The Dive Shops Daily Blog
    http://scubalessonsbelize.blogspot.com/

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    #389112 - 10/04/10 10:26 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    SimonB Offline
    No Morelet's here on the island as they are a freshwater species. They appear in some brackish water areas though like where the incoming saltwater meets the freshwater in the New River.


    Edited by SimonB (10/04/10 10:27 AM)

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    #389114 - 10/04/10 10:41 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    elbert Offline
    Alligators in Florida are a large attraction for tourist, granted most are road side attractions of Farm and zoo but seeing an Alligator on a tour of the everglades is a big industry and Imagine what a location/destination for tourist to visit an endangered species like the American Crocodile on Ambergris Caye would draw and also the benefit of having protected habitat for Crocs would benefit other inhabitants of the mangrove as well as protect the entire mangal.
    _________________________
    The Dive Shops Daily Blog
    http://scubalessonsbelize.blogspot.com/

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    #389116 - 10/04/10 11:17 AM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: elbert]
    Mike Campbell Online   content
    The problems are not with crocs in native habitat. The problem is with reactions between people and crocs. I am in favor of a hunting season every few years. As crocs are protected but the habitats are not there are now too many crocs for the available food supply hence the problems. A season would clear out the problems who have become dependent on man for food and restore a healthy fear of man which seems to have disappeared from the problem crocs and help balance the food/croc ratio.

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    #389139 - 10/04/10 03:05 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Mike Campbell]
    JZB Offline

    crocs that depend on man for food do so because we either feed them or make it easy for them to find food (trash in our yard, throw scraps out the window, etc) Not because there is not enough natural prey to eat.

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    #389142 - 10/04/10 03:52 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    elbert Offline
    Educating the people on tours to see them in their natural habitat seems like win win win.
    _________________________
    The Dive Shops Daily Blog
    http://scubalessonsbelize.blogspot.com/

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    #389158 - 10/04/10 05:41 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: JZB]
    Mike Campbell Online   content
    Originally Posted By: JZB

    crocs that depend on man for food do so because we either feed them or make it easy for them to find food (trash in our yard, throw scraps out the window, etc) Not because there is not enough natural prey to eat.

    This is very true, however, we have protected crocs as endangered species but through our commercial developments have destroyed the habit of the natural prey for crocs. We have less prey and more crocs. Through our developments we have changed the balances and crocs and man have more exposure, trash etc.. As they dont have enough to eat and their habits have changed they get in yards and eat pets and have attacked children. Even though much of the local problems have come from feeding them they are not any less a problem. For every one that was caught and shipped away two more appeared to replace them. We do have a lot of crocs and dont enforce the no feeding laws.

    ACES performed a needed function but was not enough. As Saga cannot be successful until more animal control is established by the Town Council, ACES needs the support of possibly a hunting season so the numbers are manageable. The Education part of ACES needs to be emphasized as a start.

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    #389180 - 10/04/10 10:21 PM Re: American Crocodile Educational Sanctuary destroyed [Re: Marty]
    SimonB Offline
    On the other side of the coin; as humans are the cause of these problems then we should have a hunting season for them as well...

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