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#390143 - 10/17/10 06:45 PM In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga
AriTrejo Offline
Since it was closed, I will start a new topic because again I do not like people writing things that are not true and just letting it stand, and I have 2 problems with your post Amanda.

Tell me why Saga should sit idly by while someone continues a constant campaign of harassment and complaints with the authorities, even to the point of now sponsoring new legislation to restrict humane societies (this confirmed to us by BAHA and Vet Board), all with the intent yes of hindering Saga and humane societies. ESPECIALLY when they are guilty of the same behavior that they are complaining about?? Do you realize we had to throw away a huge amount of useful meds due to their last attack?

You say that "People are now fortunate enough to have a choice - go to the private vet or go to the humane society vet - donate to Saga or donate to SPAH." UP UNTIL OCTOBER 1ST THEY DID NOT!! The restricted license that our vet was initially granted after us fighting for over 2 months to even get that FORCED people who were not "underprivileged" to go to SPAH, PERIOD! AND by the way we would not even have the license we have now if we had not received help from politically connected folks because they were intent on keeping us restricted for the forseeable future, until this legislation was considered and past? How do you justify that????? THERE WAS NO CHOICE.

You say, "Enough with the name calling, finger pointing and the he said she said crap" WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO KEEP POINTING THE FINGERS, THEY DO! WE'D BE THRILLED TO FOCUS ON THE ANIMALS, WE HAVE NO DESIRE TO ENGAGE THEM AT ALL, WE WOULD PREFER A SPIRIT OF COOPERATION, BUT THEY WON'T LET US! WE HAVE TO KEEP WASTING OUR TIME FIGHTING AGAINST THEM AND THE ROADBLOCKS THEY ARE CONTINUALLY THROWING IN OUR WAY! Why do you not get this???!

I find it infuriating that you insinuate that SAGA "starts" these confrontations, when it is clearly the other way around.
That is all I want to say.

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#390147 - 10/17/10 07:36 PM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: AriTrejo]
Amanda Syme Offline
I don't know who closed the last post. I do not appreciate being depicted as an anti-Saga enemy either.

You may recall that the reason you and all of the new members of the EC are currently on the Saga board directly due to the mediation and actions that I was integral in putting in place.

As I said in my private message response to you Ari - I admire your dedication to Saga and your service on the board.

I am merely an observer sitting on the outside watching both parties thrash around in this futile and destructive manner.

Ultimately I want what I believe most people would like to see - the opportunity for the island to have decent animal welfare care. Having in choice is remarkable and I believe both groups should be commended for their achievements.

I also know that I am not the only one that would rather see the groups moving ahead in a positive fashion rather than getting mired in bickering that doesn't seem to end.

Only one side of this debate has a voice on this board.

I am merely pointing out my observations. I see wrong doings and negative behavior occurring on both sides of the fence.

As I mentioned time and time again. This isn't my battle. All I want to see is great health care for the island's animals.

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#390148 - 10/17/10 07:39 PM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: AriTrejo]
Amanda Syme Offline
Curious - why did Saga throw away good medications? Why not pay the taxes and obtain the permits then pass the cost along to the paying customers? Seems pretty foolish to throw it away.

Bottom line is if the rules and laws were followed and obeyed then nobody would be have any mud to sling back and forth.

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#390149 - 10/17/10 07:53 PM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: Amanda Syme]
AriTrejo Offline
Again let me clarify since your last post seems to insinuate a non-truth or half truth in any event.

We had to throw away expired meds that up until now, we and also Dr. Droke when she was here at Saga and even while at SPAH on occasion, used to treat stray animals.

I imagine we cannot get an import permit for expired meds - according to BAHA and the Vet Board, we have now been informed, as a direct result of Peter's complaint, that we are not allowed to keep them or use them period.

We are happy to continue working with BAHA and the Vet Board to develop a completely compliant operation, and we will seek to import non-expired drugs in a compliant manner and sell them as you suggest.

However, please note that in the past and all through Saga's history (which as you kindly pointed out I only recently joined) this kind of use of expired meds was common and probably remains common around Belize.

The point I was making is that we now had to dump all these basically useful meds that we used on shelter animals, and that until now, Dr. Droke never objected to partaking in such a use. I just find it odd that someone continues to point the finger at us while they did and do the very same thing. Same goes for bringing in non-expired meds without a valid permit.

We are not doing that kind of finger pointing in the other direction, and I find THAT (the pot calling te kettle black) by itself to be reprehensible and it also calls into question the real motivation behind the whistleblowing (since it can't just be that it's "wrong" and "bad," otherwise why did they do it?).

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#390152 - 10/17/10 08:35 PM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: AriTrejo]
Amanda Syme Offline
oh EXPIRED meds. You're right, it would be highly unlikely that BAHA would approve.

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#390156 - 10/17/10 08:54 PM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: AriTrejo]
collyk Offline
Veterinary charities in many developing and developed countries used expired drugs, under the supervision of a qualified veterinary surgeon. Some companies will even extend the shelf life of these medications to assist the charity. It is neither nefarious or bad to use expired drugs if supervised correctly. It prevents wastage - that is the reason so many vets donate their expired drugs to charities and helps to save lives. It is so sad that animals, who of course are the real victims in all of this, may be denied medical care because non- expired drugs are not available in the country at the time. All humane societies in the country are going to be hurt by this action.
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#390163 - 10/18/10 02:10 AM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: AriTrejo]
SFJeff Offline
...it's pretty awesome that (just for example) a plane fully loaded with cocaine can land in Sarteneja (or probably anywhere else in Belize for that matter) and for all intent purposes avoid scrutiny from any arm of the GOB or law, yet if someone brings in say, a bottle of slightly expired cosequin to help an arthritic dog the drugs are confiscated and/or destroyed.

...at least this may temporarily keep the BAHA authorities occupied/distracted and take the heat off the avocado and mango smugglers that are a blight to the country.





Edited by SFJeff (10/18/10 03:23 AM)

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#390165 - 10/18/10 02:31 AM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: SFJeff]
Tim Callanan Offline
I hope that the thoughtful people that have been bringing expired drugs keep bringing them .They will get passed along
to the needy,call me the pusher . We cant let this get in the way of our efforts . I understand the added complications, we ave employee's that cant afford some of these meds. or food!
Those that are bringing donations keep a low pro(Hate to say that), the worse they can do is throw them away (hate to say that too).
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Tina's Island Life
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#390166 - 10/18/10 02:34 AM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: SFJeff]
Loansum-Al K Offline
Originally Posted By: SFJeff
...it's pretty awesome that (just for example) a plane fully loaded with cocaine can land in Sarteneja (or probably anywhere else in Belie for that matter) and for all intent purposes avoid scrutiny from any arm of the GOB or law, yet if someone brings in say, a bottle of slightly expired cosequin to help an arthritic dog the drugs are confiscated and/or destroyed.

...at least this may temporarily keep the BAHA authorities occupied/distracted and take the heat off the avocado and mango smugglers that are a blight to the country.




OMG, we are talking about animals that can not take care of them selves......who gives a damn if there are meds that are expired....most of which are still good for many years after that date.....just take care of those animals that the owners can not or just refuse to do so.......it is so sad that there is a verbal convertasion.....for what reason I have no idea!
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#390167 - 10/18/10 02:58 AM Re: In response to Amanda Syme's last post on Saga [Re: AriTrejo]
Maya House Offline
Hi - I'm not a vet, but I'm coming down in December. If any of you have information of how I can get donations of medications for the animals at SAGA and legally bring them down, I will pack an entire bag of them. I'm in Oregon, but travel all over the United States every week, so I can collect them from various locations. If someone can just help me understand the process, we'll do everything in our power to collect and bring absolutely as much as we can carry, bring in legally and take them to SAGA.

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