I receintly traveled to San Pedro, staying at the Mayan Princess and diving with Amigos Del Mar.

The short of it, in my opinion, is this. For scuba divers, the diving around AC is some of the best anywhere. It is a "must do" location. Get here while the getting is good.

If you don't dive, this island has little to offer, at least in comparison to other islands. Compared to the Caymans, the food on AC is unspeakable. Compared to Aruba there is no night life. Compared to Jamaica the resorts are lame. Compared to practicly anywhere, there is no shopping.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a diver and I enjoyed AC and do intend to go back, even if I do hate small dive boats with outboard motors. I just can't reccomend it to non-divers for a vacation, though.

For divers, well, you'll want to dive till you drop. The reef is HUGE. There are tons of big animals. They are healthy, too. I was really impressed by how there didn't seem to be any sick fish, no tumors, or infections.

This is one big, happy reef. I won't list all the different things I saw. Just look at one of those plastic cards for IDing Atlantic/Carrib fish. Everything was there, just about.

But then, our day trip to Turneffe was runied by lunch on a dirty, nasty little island with an outhouse over the water and the mangiest dog I've ever seen and her poor little pups. I mean it was heartbreaking.

So to me, my trip to Ambergris Caye was enjoyable, but only because of the diving.

Of course, this is just one person's opinion.

Wow! We had totally different reactions to AC! I do not dive, nor do I ever intend to learn, and I loved it anyway. My husband and I spent five days there and loved it so much that we bought a home. Of course, I do not vacation to shop or bar hop. To each his own! I'm glad there are some people who will never return... I'll put my house up for sale if it ever becomes like Cancun or Cozumel.

Kathy

Thanks for your comments.. I agree with you about the diving, but as stated above.. This is no Commercial resort area, No US companies, no Mc Donalds to eat at, and no Pier One to shop at.. That's what make this island so different.... The island is not for everyone... but You are right about the diving and everyone has their perception about a vacation spot... Its funny when co-workers or friends ask about all inclusive places on the island.. I tell them its not like that, and If you get a room with a/c and a fridge you are in heaven!!!! Thanks for you report...
We will be going again, just for the island itself... Rick

Thanks for the report. :^]

You are so right Florian! It's about time some one else spoke the truth. We just got back from A/C a week ago and I was never so glad to have a vacation end in my life. We are snorkelers not divers, and there was not much to do. We did take the tour to Altun Ha and the Manatee tour. They were fun, other than that the food absolutely sucked and their was no "shopping".

Folks, I want you to understand that I'm not slaming AC or San Pedro. I'm just calling it the way I see it.

I remember my first trip to the Carrib. It was to the west end of Jamaica in '81. My wife and I were on hour honeymoon. I fell so in love with Negril that I felt like crying like a baby when I had to leave. We went back five times.

On those first trips I somehow never saw the bad side of things. The trash, litter, the skinny cows, lack of infrastructure, the poverty, the crime, and such. It was a tropical island and when you've never been to a tropical island before it's natural to fall in love.

Eventually the wife and I divorced and somehow I didn't want to go back to Negril anymore. So I took a run down to Cozumel. Then Aruba, then Key Largo, then Grand Cayman, Key West, St Kitts, St Thomas, Rotan, and several other places in the Carrib.

As you can tell, I like the Carrib. And maybe that's just it. I'm at the point where I love the whole sea, not just any one island. I'm not particularly partical to any one place in the Carrib. Each is unique and each seems to have something wonderfull to offer. For AC, that is the sea itself and the most spectacular reef in this hemisphere.

But I was frustrated by several things. One was this. I ran out of pages for my dive book while I was there. I use a standard PADI three ring dive book. I looked in every logical place and asked enough people to be sure that there was not one package of dive log pages to be had on the entire island. We're talking about a serious dive destination here, and they don't have even the most simple dive supplies.

I bought most of my dive equipment in Georgetown, Grand Cayman. The store was better then any dive store I had or have seen in the US. On AC I couldn't even find pages for my dive book.

Another example. On the way down the airline managed to break one of my sandels. So I went shopping for sandels in AC, and I came away empty handed. Oh, there were a few pair here and there but nothing worth buying. I started going barefoot (and the fact that I could do that is a major point in favor of AC).

I will say this .... AC has huge potential. This island could be developed into something really special. No no no, I don't mean McDonald's on every corner. Far from it.

What is unique about AC is there are no paved streets and very few cars. The island could be developed as a place where everything is resident owned, no Hiltons or Hyatts. But folks, the place needs cleaning up. It's dirty and dusty and there is too much poverty.

If I could, I would do something to attract some really good chefs to the island. I would forbid automobiles on the island. I would put in sidewalks and plant a lot things. I would make it so only folks that lived on the island could own hotels or resturants. I would get the power lines buried. I would fill in all those places where water stands and stagnates and breeds insects. I would get a compantent diesel mechanic on the island so that there could be some real dive boats. I would pay very, very special attention to developing a good sanitary sewage system.

In short, I would keep AC substantially the way it is, but I would cleen it up and exploit the good things, unique things, AC does have to offer. AC is not owned by huge international companies. That may be it's greatest strengty, and it's greatest weakness, at once. In so much as most of what I see as being AC's probelms revolve around a lack of investment capitol. Where you get investment capitol without bringing in the big hotel and resturant companies, well, that would be the trick, wouldn't it?

I just have to say that I did not eat a bad meal the entire time I was on Ambergris Caye. I thought the food was absolutely wonderful. There are so many wonderful little restaurants with home cooked food. I think the meals were my favorite part of the trip. Although the snorkeling runs a close second.

I just want to know one thing...where else in the world can you go to a bar and see a millionaire sitting next to a guy who just paid 15$/night to share a bathroom with 5 other people? AC is for people who don't need room service, elevators, etc...I came back with a feeling of appreciation for what I have, not disappointment.

Very well said, Cajunflo. That is the whole point of AC I think. To remind us all of what is important in this world, and how very spoiled we all are that live in the States and are able to visit "poorer" countries for vacation. I came home embarrassed almost of all that I have and find that if I dare to complain sometimes, I want to smack myself for not remembering I have more than is ever necessary. I love AC for all that it doesn't have and all that it taught me in the 8 days I spent there.
Punta Rebel Girl

A fair and honest opinion Florian. Personally, I did find the lobster I paid $120US for in Grand Cayman was a bit smaller and less tasty than the last one I paid $20US for in San Pedro. Must be something to do with the waiters tux and tile floors, they do cost money. I found Negril to be dirty and tacky in 91. Night life in Aruba is fine, if you are into such things. The resorts in Jamaica are great if you need someone to amuse you all the time.
See, everyone wants or needs something different. Isn't that great? There are so many choices for all of us. We can all have what we want!

I am looking forward to my first rip to A/C June 6. Like Florian I am pretty well traveled throughout the Caribbean, having been to Negril as well. I love the noncommercialized places where you can eat at local establishments and have a "cold one" at outside "beach bars." Florian's report has me a little concerned though. I have done alot of reading on A/C and visited this site frequently since I planned my trip. I gathered A/C was fairly clean or cleaner than most caribbean islands and abject poverty was not too widespread. I realize the streets were sand and that is one thing that attracted me. But I am a little concerned about Florians report of dirty steets, sewage problems, etc. Can anyone shed anymore light on this. I realize everyone has an opinion but I hope I haven't developed the wrong "image" of A/C.

I realize everyone has their own opinion, but if you walk around expecting to see ghosts, sooner or later one is going to jump out and say "boo"

If you liked Negril, you'll love AC. I've been to Negril more than 5 times now. When I was a poor college student I stayed in a guest house across the street from the coral seas inn.. and when I graduated and started making money, I moved up to the Rock House. Same place, different vibes.

The same hold true in AC. You can stay at one of the cheaper places in town, or stay at a nicer place... same town, different vibes.

However, when you're in town you will see things that you're not used to seeing in the states. As far as being worried enough to cancel your trip, fuggedaboudid ( as they say on the sopranos). I was just down there two weeks ago and I actually had to go looking for poverty. ( I brought toys and other goodies down for some kids after reading this board)... I had to have some of the local kids show me where they live (up north, near the ferry, on the bay side.) If you want to see poverty, go there.... but while you're there, look how happy and friendly everyone is. It was hard to drive around in the golf cart and hand out toys to the kids, as I didn't want to appear too patroninzing... at the same time, I think the people just accepted me at face value and were happy I happened to drive by that day.

travelling from one resort city or "hotspot" doesn't make you well travelled... meeting the locals, participating in the local culture, and making an effort to give and take a little of both, are what makes travellers.

Ok, let me get off my soapbox ( i'm even starting to annoy myself now... been cooped up in this hotel for too long tonight)...

suffice it to say you can make your stay memorable or forgettable... it's all up to you.

ps.. as for the shopping, one of the girls in my party made the same general types of comments about there not being any "shopping".. I asked her what she wanted.. and she just said "I don't know, just stuff".. this being her first time out of the country I know she was anxious to buy lots of trinket and souvenirs, but I tried to tell her that the only trinkets you need are a little keepsake to put on a shelf and look at to help the memories flow( which are the best souvenirs you can't buy)...... i told her that if she wanted to shop, save her money and spend a weekend at the mall of the americas in minnesota.... belize is for enjoying life.

Disagree with you Florian; Sorry.We don't dive or snorkel and had our best vacation ever on AC and can't wait to get back. Best food, wonderful people, and we have been to the Mexican Riviera/Cancun/Cozumel area about 10 times in the past 6 years, but will go back to AC in a heartbeat before returning to "Miami South". To each his own.

Not a world traveler...but..
As far as shopping..all we wanted was a T-shirt...and the Belikan zipper cooler. My son was happy with the free coconuts, shells and lizard tail we brought home.
I didn't see one unhappy person the whole time were were there.
Its really about the people, the water and the reef. Not good deals on jewerly and fancy dining.

I'm very happy for those of you who like AC just the way it is. I don't have a problem with that.

What I have a problem with is that I followed this board for months before I went to AC and personally, no offense intended, but I find it misleading to call the food "wonderfull" and "great" and stuff like that. Wholesome home cooking, yes, I think it's mostly that. But there is nothing great about it.

My post was intended to give balance to what I see an a somewhat biased discussion.

It's not fair to set people up thinking there is four-star dining on the island when there is not one resturant on the island that would rate one star. Sweet Basil's would come the closest, but it wouldn't rate.

The other reason I made this post is that I'm hoping someone will read it who can maybe address some of the things I mention. Some of them are just plain common sense and good sanitation, like filling in all the many, many places where water stands and insects breed. I"m sorry, but I must dissagree with someone who says these things are not important. What they are is an important public health issue, and AC is lacking.

I realize that my opinion is just that, and I've tried very hard to make my critisim constructive.

Florian, I am really sorry you didn't enjoy AC more....but if anyone ever does follow through with your suggestions I will surely never go again! You know, all those other countries you have visited are 3rd world too, and if you had just walked far enough you would have seen poverty there too. I find it admirable that the people of AC have not "sold their souls to the devil" to make San Pedro another Cancun, Cozumel, Negril, etc. I never had a bad meal either of the times I was in AC this year. I loved the people...I loved the limited shopping...I loved everything about it.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion -- as I am entitled to mine, but I really do hope Ambergris Caye stays the way it is now...Carla



[This message has been edited by ccla (edited 05-30-2001).]

Florian,
Do you think that we are lying when we say that the food is great and that we love AC just the way it is? I'm not lying... I'm giving my honest opinion, just as you have given yours. So I'm sorry that you don't like what people have said, but you act as if we are purposefully trying to deceive. I respect your opinion, and the fact that your palate is definitely more trained than mine. I understand how having a preconceived idea about how a place is going to be can really spoil the whole experience for you, but please don't suggest that we are being deceitful. We are being honest, and you don't agree. That's okay.

Oh yeah, and about that poverty thing. Like my dad used to say. "I'm not poor. I just don't have any money." His family was his treasure chest, and it was full and loving. So don't judge people by how much they have. I saw a family on AC living in what we would call a shack, but they were cooking food over an open fire, and everyone was smiling and waving "hello" to me. They were not poor.


Kathy

KC, no, I don't think anyone is lying. I just think some folks get carried away sometimes.

Some of it, a lot of it, would be one's frame of reference. I think some folks have never had a really good meal in their life.

Ya know, a lot of folks go to Branson, Missouri and think it's a lot of fun and the food is real good. I guess that is good enough for them. Me, I don't spend tons of money to travel away from home to get home cooking. I get pleanty of that at home. I'm not impressed by pretention for it's own sake. What I like is really good food, well prepared and artfully presented.

I stand by what I have said. Sweet Basil's is a fairly good place to eat. They try real hard and it shows. Other then that though, the food is lacking.

I want to repete something I think is important though. If you are a diver you really do want to get yourself to San Pedro as soon as possible for as long as you can. I'm going back, for sure, I'll enjoy what AC has to offer. I'll overlook the rest. In the meantime if I get to wanting a really good meal I'll run down to New Orleans.

Mr. B, a few weeks ago, a poster named Idaho Diver went to SP and when he got home he wrote a trip report on this board. He did not like the diving, he did not like how he was treated by the operators, he did not enjoy SP. Another poster named Axeman (a guy really into diving) was quite concerned because he was getting ready to go to SP and really needed a good holiday. Why don't you ask Axeman whether or not his experience was anything like Idaho Divers' experience. Also notice that Florian's diving experience was quite different from Idaho Divers' diving experience.

Here's my advice. Do not expect gourmet meals. The food is basic as a rule but I never had a bad meal. I never have had a fantastic meal either (some darned tasty ones though). As someone else pointed out in an earlier post, it is for the most part good homecooked-style fare. If you are going for the food, you should indeed go elsewhere.

I too believe that the island could be kept a bit cleaner but did not find it outrageously dirty. Still since I think the island could be cleaner, I do my part. As I walk along I pick up bits of trash etc. and dump it into the garbage cans that are on every corner or more. I noticed a lot more trash after Hurricane Keith than I ever did on my trips before. Maybe there is still a correlation.

Most of the standing water is on the lagoon side and you'd have to completely change the geology of the island to fix that. Think Florida and the ecological disaster that is occuring there because of all the infilling, dredging, beach making and beach preservatiion. On the other hand, Florian was in SP during the rainy season and so there was no doubt some rain water laying about.

Oh, I could go on and on but the others have said it all better. Mr. B, go and enjoy yourself. Be prepared to slow down. Take a good heart and a healthy attitude and you will come home with an even better heart and better attitude. I hope the weather is kind to you.

Florian, I hesitate doing this but I will, I agree about your comment about the "dirty, nasty little island with an outhouse over the water" as I sat over that little oval seat and messed all over the ocean, just about made me puke.

I to have tryed to add balance to this board and only got tongue lashed.

But what I don't understand is how you can say the diving around AC is for divers?

I found it the other wayaround, the diveing is subpar. IF you a want ease of life and no concerns (if you have the cash to retire there) then the place could be great for ya. I really thought the diving was second rate at best. If you thought the place to be was Jamaica or Aruba, then you need new places to dive.

I know I will get slammed for this but this is my trip report that got pulled a while back. GO for it gals and guys. But I will say we had a good time even though the diving was not up to par or worse, the local food was ****. Florian, don't run now as I'm going to need your help.

Repost:Landed Friday 3/30 in Belize City, went through immigrations and all that stuff. Picked up our bags and went over to next stop to declare or not to declare items brought into the country, asked the gal where we can find Tropic Air, she said to ask one of the guys for help, I did, he put our bags on his cart and took us around the corner to Tropic Air counter, I offered a tip , but he suggested a buck per bag. He meant a dollar Belize, I gave him one US per bag, SHAME on me. Finally get to AC at about 4:30 or 5:00, got a taxi for the Mayan Princess Hotel. Very nice Hotel and nice people running and operating it, too bad they don’t have a pool. We went up to our room and unpacked our stuff and took our dive gear down to Amigo del Mar located just out the door on the beach. Saturday we had no scheduled dives so we just wandered all over the town from one end to the other and back again. By noon we had seen most of what we wanted to see and was now looking for some fun. Went over to Fido’s dock and went parasailing, wasn’t cheap but it was a blast. We tried some of the local food from the street vendors and found it to be much different from what I was expecting, Jambel Jerkpit by the park is a small Jamaican restaurant where you might want to try if you like spicy food, I just loved it. Sunday, finally our first day of diving, we were put in a smaller boat with only six divers total, GREAT I thought, we got to our first dive site and was briefed on what to do and what to expect on our dive. First they throw in a rope line for you to hang on to while everybody else gets in the water, with the rough seas it was a bit tough holding on to the rope with one hand as I was holding my camera with the other. We finally get the signal to descend, only having to wait for a older man who was having some real trouble with his ears, after kicking against the small current for a while the dive master motioned to us to start the dive (so we thought) after about 15 minutes he caught up to us, mad as heck. Finished the dive and surfaced and got a butt chewing from the boat captain, as I said we misunderstood what his signal was, Oh well.
Second dive same thing with the older man, but we all hung around as told to stay in a group, this time I used 500psi of air waiting against a current for the guy to get down to depth. After it was all done my dive buddy and I went to the dive shop and requested a change in boats as we did NOT want to dive with that man again. We spoke with the manager and expressed our concerns, he called us ‘snobs’ well that did not set well with me at all, and went to explain how the rest of the group had paid their money and spent a good amount of time waiting for a guy who should not be in the water. The next day we went out on the same boat but with different people, went to two different dive sites that day and was now getting very disappointed on the diving there. The coral is colorless, broken, covered with silt, and all but dead. Next day had a trip planned for the Blue Hole, showed up on the dock at 5:45 AM only to find out the trip was canceled do to winds and rough seas. So we puttered around town for half a day and then went to Shark Ray Ally and Hol Chan Marine Reserve. Shark Ray Alley is a must do for anybody who visits the area, If Hol Chan Marine is a real Marine Reserve then I knew our chance of seeing good coral reefs was out of the question for the whole trip. By now we are getting very disappointed in the condition of the reef and lack of marine life, about the only time you saw marine life was when they were feeding the fish that were in the area. I will say, I have never seen so many free swimming nurse sharks, rays, and even spotted eagle rays any place else. Wednesday, another early day trying for the blue hole again, but was told if the seas was to rough we would only go to Turneffe island area, never made it to the blue hole, but the diving was better around Turneffe than around San Pedro. We were told we would be doing wall dives, if they call those wall dives nobody showed them what a wall is. First two dives were ok, but the third dive I have seen better vis in a snow storm with 40mph winds. I can deal with currents as I just returned from Cozumel a few months ago, but the surges along with the current done nothing more than expel energy and consume a lot of air. Also, on our fist dive the ladder was lost and is lying on the ocean floor now and that made for some tough entries back into the boat. As I mentioned we wanted to go to The Blue Hole but the seas were too rough to make that crossing safely. On the first of the so-called wall dives one of the younger gals ran out of air on our safety stop, she got to me for my octopus, I was able to get the dive masters attention so he could take over the near panicked girl, as I was busy helping my 13 year old daughter who usually has a hard time hanging at 20 feet for a few minutes. Later that day I found out the the girl who run out of air just got her C-card, now I don’t know why a dive shop would allow a person with no dive experience to sign up for a trip to the blue hole and do a 130 foot dive, makes no sense to me. Thank God for her sake we could not get there. With what I considered lousy diving we opted to go back and snorkel shark ray alley again on Thursday because my daughter liked it so much the first time. I had talked to other divers who were getting better dive sites and they offered their suggestions to me, I then went and had a strong discussion with the dive shop manager again about changing boats for a dive master who might take us to the suggested sites which were given thumbs up by other divers. I expressed my concern that we were being put on a boat with novice divers because of the age of my daughter. This was an assumption that angered me as my daughter dives better than at least 50% of the people that were there. We made it to one of the sites on the list and it was much better, second dive was good as well. We did get a small refund of our unused prepaid dive package but it had to be brought up with the owner of the dive shop. On a scale from ‘0’ to ‘10’ and ‘0’ being the worst I rate the diving around AC as ‘1’ with my open water cert dives at home (Idaho) 15 years ago a ‘0’ I could never recommend AC to anybody for quality diving. Flew out 4/7 and I will never return.


OK, Let me have it!
http://community.webshots.com/user/idaho_diver

Idaho_Diver - "Flew out 4/7 and I will never return."???
I must butt in here I have never been to AC (thinking about going in a few months), but I was wondering, if you had such a terrible dive experience, why do you have 14 message board postings on an AC web site, including your dive pictures? Is there something magical about AC that keeps you linked to this message board? Just a couple of innocent questions with no offense intended


**Shannon**

[This message has been edited by Desert_Fever (edited 05-31-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Desert_Fever (edited 05-31-2001).]

I vote to leave these comments here.
Not that I agree with the reports, but it adds a different take on things and personalities.
Most of the complaints are about things that man does not have control over, it is nature at work, which is ever changing.
If the marine life, coral, and wall diving is not what one expected, now who controls that, surely not man. If the coral is in bad
shape, be grateful you got to see it, before more damage is done.
Your hotel not having a swimming pool, obvisouly you noted that before booking.
Food, now who was expecting five star restaurants? The wonderful local food, is just what makes the total island experience.
When one is an experienced traveler and diver, you should have learned not to take package travel deals, due to being locked in to whatever they offer, instead of leaving your options open, to check out the dive operation on the island that suits your capability and expectations.
Some people enjoy being a "snob" and that is acceptable, and they always want to feel superior, which is ok, but we that do not have those needs are ok too.
Glad everyone agrees, swimming with the nurse starks, and rays, is a real spiritual experience, and your life will forever be blessed.
I for one will always return to Ambergris for that laid back enjoyable way of life.
Proving, a step back in time, with the beautiful caribbean sea outside your door, is so peaceful and relaxing, if I leave my attitude at home.
"BELIZE IT"

To each his own. I have been to Aruba in the 80's, about ten hotels and building went back in the 90's need I say more, they ruined a beautiful island. There was one casino and one club. Went to Cancun in the 80's , very Mexican, bullfights fights and real mexican food went back in 00, too American for me just like any US city. Wnt to Turks and Caicos 99 and 00(2).They were building each time I went back, I am going to AC in August and probably back to Turks next year and the way it looked last time, it will be another Aruba. So if you are looking for that commercial vacation shop in the Sunday paper. An island is a piece of land surrounded by water so why would we want to pacify the Americans and build malls and fast food resturants and take away the customs of the natives that is very selfish, they invite us to there island and all America sees is a way to make money. They took the land from the Indians and now the wanto to take the land from the islands and build small cities all over the carribean. Like NY,Cleve, Chicago,LA,Frisco and the rest do not have trash on the ground, but we could afford to because this is America. Have you ever talked to the natives or did you just want the to cater to you for 25 cents an hour. I thought the whole idea was to do nothing on a carribean vacation and take with you the American custom of hurry,hurry. But like I said, to each his own.Sorry to sound cruel, but thats life. You need to relax and enjoy your surroundings whatever the situation is.

Have to jump in ! Just want to say that there will always be people who dont like what they find in Belize... I think I am well-travelled. I know what gourmet food is. OK, I am not an super expert diver, just a regular open water diver. But I love the diving in Belize (specially the atolls) and I do think the food is great (not gourmet I agree, but I dont think anyone ever mentionned "gourmet" on this website). I think people only read what they want to read on these posts. Yes, we love Belize, and yes, sometimes we get carried away ! So what ?... I am going there for the 5th times in a week, I guess that means something !

I agree with you, Chloe. The comments made here should stay, if only for balance. I can see no reason to be upset with any of it.

**Jim

With no disrespect to others of varying opinions, this is directed to the "locals" on the board, and other fans.
People of AC, on behalf of myself and the others that tend to travel with me, thank you for letting us share your island and taste your lifestyle, and thank you for not fabricating something just for the tourists. We will be back. Feed me lobsters and conch, make Belikin readily available, and keep the beautiful sunrises and smiling people.

Some want everything.............

Some want nothing................

What is right....................

You decide.......................

hacker

Great imput, see we can handle our own thoughts and feelings about Ambergris.
Seems about 99% of us, love Ambergris just as it is. And we can accept the 1% that does not, like what we like, can't we? Be Happy!

Took my first trip to AC May 18-28 & loved every minute of it - even in the downpours my last two days. We even had a good laugh as we waded down the north road from our house to the hand ferry. Maybe I'm a romantic at heart (OK, OK - I definitely am), but I fell in love. AC is not a place for the critical. Went on a trip to the mainland one day with an extremely annoying guy who was critical from the first moment - wanted to throw him overboard a couple of times. There's nothing wrong with seeing reality (yes, I saw some garbage around the beaches up north, etc.) but being critical just for the sake of feeling superior has no place here. All in all, I found AC to be a truly beautiful, unspoiled place of incredible beauty. And what I mean by that is the people of AC seem to know how to enjoy life no matter what their circumstances are - they are happy people and we should feel honored that they allow all of us to come and share their isla bonita, even for a little while. Given a hint of an opportunity I'd go back. I enjoyed everything - food, accomodations, tours, snorkeling. It was ALL good. If you want good food try Margarita shrimp at Caliente, Conch Ceviche at Capricorn, or even Armadillo at Maruba resort (on the mainland - you can get there by taking the Altun Ha tour). Maybe my tastes are simple, but I thought the food was delicious. And I thought the island itself was perfect (for me - I'm really not delusional). I recommend it whole heartedly, though probably not to everyone - just those who are easy going, romantic, interested in having fun and relaxing and not transforming the island into another tacky tourist trap. I'm in love with San Pedro and hope it keeps it's charm forever. To those of you with other opinions, bless ya and if you don't like it, find someplace perfect for you.

KC - You must not know the Ambergris of the past, the island has become closer to Cancun/Cozumel than ever before. The changes occuring recently are staggering. Just ask a local who has lived on the island what changes they have seen in the last 5 years. If it keeps up at the current growth rate, who knows?

M1, when was the last time you were in Cancun. To my mind, there is no comparison. While I agree with you that there are more hotels being built and that the atmosphere is becoming a bit more (heavy emphasis on the "bit") sophisticated, SP is not like Cancun at all. That's like comparing Vegas to Jerome, Arizona.

Florian and Idaho, the other thing I'd like to address is the "dirty little island with the outhouse over the water".

There is no question that to those of us from Canada and the US, the outhouse is quite disconcerting. I've been in a couple of them on these little out islands. I never found the outhouses to be particularly dirty. It is just *very* disconcerting to be doing your business for everyone to see. And if you are doing anything greater than adding yellow to the ocean, it is a fairly gross concept to us. I did not find either of these little islands to be particularly dirty. I suspect you were taken to the island that I was at last, but I could be wrong. The fellow living there has been reclaiming his beach by hand since the hurricane and he has been doing it alone. He lives in that little "shack" all of the time and just works away. There isn't much there really. A little sand spit, his shack, a dock and some mangroves. I believe that Amigos takes the divers to a place like that so that they can do three things. 1 - Show the tourists how some Belizeans live and give us an even greater appreciation of the differences between our two cultures. 2 - Help out the guys that live such an isolated life. 3 - Give us pampered tourists an opportunity to go somewhere besides in the ocean. Nothing wrong with any of those things. Where would you suggest you be taken for your constitutional? Do you think there are a lot of western style bathrooms with septic system attached out on the Atolls?

SS: Have been traveling to AC since'88 aprox. 15-20 x /yr. Obviously statements such as Cancun/Coz. comparisons cannot be taken literarlly, but changes in the last 10 years are dramatic, for instance the overall change in population, I belive is from aprox. 2000 to presently over 5000, doubling in size on such a small concentrated land mass is extreem. I may be off on the 5k estimate, I belive it may be as high as 8K

M1, I'll agree. The reason I made my post regarding the comparison was to ensure that no one reading, that hadn't been to SP before, would be left with a misapprehension. Thanks for clearing it up.

Yes, I've heard different reports on the numbers of people living in SP. It varies from 4000 to 9000. It must be quite different from when you first started to come and it was still a sleepy little fishing village.

You probably don't want it to change anymore than it has already and neither do I.

Well, with respect to the diving, I happily get to talk about something I really like about AC.

I dove with Amigos Del Mar and they did a very good job. I gave them my dive gear on the day I arrived and didn't have to mess with it again untill the day I left. They took care of everything. I left my equipment on the boat at the end of the dive day, and they would take it and rinse it and hang it up in the breeze. Then the next day the equipment would be waiting for me on the boat, my wetsuit hanging up right by the boat waiting for me to don. This is the way it should be but isn't in far, far too many places.

The staff at Amigos Del Mar were mostly rated as Divemasters, which I am also. I was treated with the respect my rating deserves, but at the same time I'm always listening to what the locals say very closely anywhere I go. It's usually the local dive guides I end up relating to the most anyway, and end up hanging out with, and this trip was no exception.

The diving is very leasurly. The dive sites around San Pedro, and there are a bunch, are so close that the boat leaves at 9 AM, which is pretty late. I liked that.

The boats use outboard motors, which I don't like, but they all have twin motors, which is the mimimum I demand. I won't dive in the open sea on a small boat with a single outboard motor. Not when I'm paying anyway.

The boats were clean and well orginized. The crew were good at what they do, which, really, is getting people in the water and back out.

So Amigos Del Mar uses bottom end equipment, especially boats, but provides service that is towards the upper end.

Everyone uses the same basic boats, btw. Locally made narrow beam boats with twin Yamaha outbard motors. If there is a diesel powered dive boat on the island, I did not see it.

What made the diving itself special for me were the big animal encounters and the health of the reef.

We saw Hawksbill turtles on almost every dive. We saw Loggerheads on several dives. In the Blue Hole we saw many Bull, Reef and Nurse sharks, enough that I"m positive they were attracted there by bait.

I fed a nurse shark myself. I was allowed to sit in on staff meetings. Like I said, the staff at ADM looked at my logbook and I told them I'm starting school in September to become an Instructor, and they did some really nice things related to that. Taking me under their wing, so to speak. I learned quite a bit, and also worked on my Spanish.

I was amazed by all the elkhorn coral. In really good shape too. I guess I was lucky, I was there about two weeks after Idaho, and the visibility was great, averaging a minimum of 80' and improving through the week.

There were Green Moray, Greater Barracuda, Atlantic Bottlenose Dolphin (yep, we got lucky and "Flipper" happened by. Nice pod of very healthy, happy animals). It kinda goes on and on. All the reef fish were there in large numbers, Cobia, Horse Eyed Jack, Nassau Grouper, huge Stoplight Parrotfish, Southern Stingray, Jewfish, Pigfish, Pinfish, Cherubfish, Foureye Butterflyfish, Smooth Trunkfish.

There was a lot of variety in the coral formations. This is a huge reef, a reef system, really. It has two major types of structur. Running a breathtaking distance along the front side of AC it is a barrier reef. South of AC there are atols. Inbetween and around there are keys.

Along Ambergris Caye the barrier reef has different configurations, but the most prevelent is side by side canyons. These are formed by current, I'm told. These canyons are largest towards the open sea and mostly end before the top of the reef. Where they don't end there are channels through the reef. Looking at it from the air the effect is somewhat like a haircomb laying on it's side in the water with the teeth facing the open sea. And the whole reef a series of thes haircombs layed end to end.

What we mostly did was drift across these canyons, these "teeth". The dives were well planed and exicuted. I guess I was lucky again in that I dove with pretty much the same group all week and they were all experienced and compentent divers. All were at least Advance Open Water Divers and a couple were Rescue Divers. For myself, well, I can take care of myself and my buddy just fine. On most of the dives we had six or seven divers and two guides.

I'm stickin' to my guns here folks. The food is in serious need of some improvement, but the diving is extremely good and I would come here if I had to camp out (I'm guessing that by now you can figure I don't much like camping ;-)

Oh, about training in San Pedro. I don't think I would reccomend it. I would classify AC in general to be an Advanced Dive Area or whatever. I wouldn't reccomend Cozumel either, because of the drift diving (but having said that Cozumel is where I got my Open Water and Advanced cards). I don't think anyone should go to Ambergris Caye and get an Open Water Diver card and expect to dive advanced dives like the Blue Hole. For people wanting to get certified for the first time, I really thing it's a much better idea to take advantage of the more favorable water conditions and the more advanced facilities and staff available in Florida or The Caymans.


[This message has been edited by Florian (edited 05-31-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Florian (edited 05-31-2001).]

Your diving experience is very similar to what I have experienced each time I have been there. Idaho apparently had something go terribly awry and I feel bad for him. He missed so much.

In regards to sewer type stuff going into the ocean! That is unfortunately happening everywhere. Here in Southern California we have constant sewage spills going in the ocean and Beaches seem to be closed all winter because all kinds of bad stuff foats into the ocean after rains and it is getting worse and worse every year because there are more and more people. And this is a modern, wealthy State. In Italy they just have long sewage pipes go out into the ocean and they pump their shitt out at night. Don't think Belize is such a horrible place for using an out house over the ocean there is much worse going on all over the world. I have been to many country's and have seen a lot. Ambergris Caye does not seem that 3rd world, dirty and poor to me. I am from a super clean Country so fairly picky when it comes to that. But I take every place with a grain of Salt. I think Belize is way more environmentally clean and friendly than many other countries.

now, this is what a forum is all about. i respect all for standing by their opinions.

i have been to AC 2x. i just loved it. i always said, from my first step off the plane, my mom would hate it. it takes all kinds, and each has different expectations.

i thought my lobster thai style from rendezvous was gormet, even if i was allowed to eat in bare feet. and if you think i don't know gormet, heck, i live in a resort area known for its restaraunts.

that said, i'd eat a breakfast burrito at canibal's anytime, with my toes in the sand, and be happy!

like everything in life, if have high expectations, you'll be disappointed. if you expect nothing, everything good is a treasure.

WOW....good boarding today. Great information.

Florian, my guess is, that you love to eat a really good big steak, for dinner. Right?

Idaho, your reposting strikes me exactly as it did the first time, you just had some bad circumstances, nothing that couldn't happen just about anywhere.

P.S. Great Pics!

Well, yes, now that you mention it. And the best steak I've ever had was at http://www.elgaucho-aruba.com/ Nothing haute cuisine about it. Traditional Argentine grill. Steak to die for.

Keep in mind that I'm from Texas, yawl. Saying that the best steak I've ever had is from anywhere but Texas is saying something for me.

Man, I got to get myself down to Argentina one of these days. I'll bet there is even better to be had there.

It seems like the main activity on a vacation for many of you is eating. No wonder the toilet situation on that little Island was such an issue. Ha, Ha!!!!

Florian, Texas Steaks, have you tried Del Frisco's in Dallas or Three Forks, in the winter when the fireplace is burning?

Kobe Beef in Japan cooked on lava rocks?

"ENJOY"

OK folks, look on any message board for any vacation site and what do you find? Many different and varied opinions on the same hotels, resorts, restaurants, tours, dive sites, etc. As someone already said, we are all looking for different things on vacation. For us, at the time we went to AC, we were looking for something other than the Cancun/Mexican Riviera/Cozumel area. As we said earlier, we don't dive or snorkel, just go for the sun, ocean, relaxation, reading, enjoying other cultures and native food. We did not really ask if AC had 5 star restaurants,(we rarely eat out at home)however we did want to know about good food. We found an abundance of all the above in AC. Wonderful native people,good food and plenty of it, sun, ocean, sand, beautiful sunrises and sunsets, and a most relaxing atmosphere for reading, people watching, or just doing nothing. Shopping? For what? We have tee-shirts, hats, silver,etc. from other places. You go to AC to mainly,(for us,anyway) just to enjoy. As we said before...we can't speak for the diving or snorkeling. Let Florian and Idaho have their opinions and let it be. Don't let their experiences deter others, however. You never know what you will find until you go and experience an area. We don't think anyone on the board has ever meant to mislead..they just call them as they see them. Peace.

Florian, Florian, Florian. You are so right. I just returned last night from San Pedro. Spent 5 nights at Ramons. I must say that despite what people have said about Ramons (i.e. "it is not worth the money, etc.")--Ramons was the highlight of the trip. Very nice place, had bungalow #6 towards the back and even the early plane departures were not a problem. The bungalow had nice hardwood floors and was very spacious. The biggest problem was the island itself and old mother nature. I can't blame anyone for the 4 straight days of rain and wind that completely prevented me from diving (not even once). When it comes to bad weather on vacation you go with it, though I am sad that I flew all that way and never went diving. The island itself is another issue.

Anyone who can say that the place is "rustic" not "dirty" is in complete denial. Because the place will only see more tourists in the future, there must be a better attempt to at least place garbage cans at intervals along the beach or the street. No one wants a dirty island.

And, anyone who says that the food was "wonderful" is exagerating. I had okay food, nothing bad---but the prices were high and the quality lacking. I mean a chicken breast smothered in onions with a small helping of beans and rice for $8 is good sustenance, but not "wonderful".

Since I never did dive I cannot attest to the quality of the reef, but during the rain storms (we're talking major downpours over several hours) the run off from the street and from the beachfront structures cannot bode well for a healty reef, particularly as the island continues to grow.

I would say to anyone that they should go, I may even return to get those dives in, but don't believe that you are going to a pristine tropical island. You are going to a 3rd world country and to an island that is in its infancy in developing infrastructure for tourists.

Did you try the FRESH FISH MEALS?

Most of us say what restaurants we enjoyed, and the meals we appreciated. To say that the food is unspeakable compared to the Caymans, makes no sense! What is that supposed to mean? That every meal at every restaurant in the Caymans is better than any meal at any restaurant on Ambergris?

Give me a break!

p123 $8 US or Belize for a chicken dinner is high priced!?

Give me another break!

Public Garbage cans ARE available along front street and the beach.

Belize it!

prospect123-
So sorry you didn't have a truly fabulous experience. I, too, just returned and though the rain dampened my plans over memorial day weekend, it didn't dampen my spirit (I still got out and snorkeled Saturday afternoon as soon as the rain stopped). And about it being dirty... well, the only dirty part I saw were the beaches up north near the private houses. Too bad about that - I wanted to go out and clean it up myself. However, I found the island for the most part to be very clean and never noticed garbage or the lack of g. cans in SP. And as for the food - WHERE did you eat? Everywhere I tried had good food - though I only had chicken once (at Papi's, which was admittedly not gourmet, though tasty). Most of my meals were fish/shrimp/conch or other local fare. I found it to be very delicious. Anyway, I hope if you go back you have a better experience. IJ

Well, from a local Belizean point of view, I'd like to say thanks to all who have posted comments. It is only by reading your varied experiences that we can continue to work on improving our homeland for others to enjoy as well. Kudos to the webmaster for keeping the board open for all. There is truth in every message posted on this thread. We are thankful for our visitors and hope their experiences become even more positive as we continue to serve.

As for me? I just liked being "ME". I didn't have to put on any hats... Not a mommy hat, not an employee hat, not a "wife" hat, and certainly not a "tourist" hat. I was just me. I wore my favorite clothes, and who cared if I was barefoot in a restaurant? I lived without fear, pretense, arrogance, anger, distrust, mean-spirited attitudes, greed, ignorance, laziness, or snobbery. It didn't exist for me while there. Now THAT's my kind of place. As for the food? I've been to many a haute restaurant and got a (as in one) steamed carrot, a sprig of parsley, a 2 oz. piece of meat, a tablespoon of wild rice and some mysterious shit drizzled around the enormous, colorful, plate for "presentation". You spend $50 per person, and go home hungry. If you're like my husband, you stop at Taco Bell on the way home!!! So what have you acheived? A tummy growl?? Personally, I feel like I've been raped. Waste of money in my book. I'll take a plate of conch fritters or grilled grouper any day!!!! If I want ambiance, I'll just bring my own table candle.......
Debbie

Debbie, I've made six posts here. I think maybe you didn't read most of what I've written (which is ok, I tend to write a lot). I don't particularly like haute crusine either, though I've had some I like fine. Haute crusine may, or may not, be good food.

lld, thank you for reading what I've written.

If I could make a wish for AC it would be to increase the "quality" (read "amount each spends") of the tourists visiting your island and not the "quantity". (Please note I'm putting these things in "")

Those are the only ways I know to make more money. I think it's a good idea for the people of AC to make more money so that they could reinvest it in their island and bussiness and homes. AC could be a real nice little automobile-less, everything-in-walking-distance, garden-of-eden-like, not-over-run-by-masses, gem of an island. I mean the opportunity is there. It's too late for so many other places.

Everything that IS good right now about AC (and there is a lot) can and should be maintained, while at the same time achieving a better standard of living for it's residents and a niceer enviorment for it's visitors.

I think those with a bit of money to spend naturaly demand a little more. Some of us actualy enjoy spending a bit of our money when we go somewhere, on food, clothes, scuba equipment, so on. That's a win/win for host and visitor. I guess it all depends on who you want to attract. If I were in the business of serving tourists, I'm not sure I'd like it if folks came to visit and all they wanted to buy while they visited was a T-shirt.

I don't mean that snobby like, and I'm not talking about junk and jewels. But consider this. I dropped $3500.00 US the last time I was in Georgetown. I alwys budget some money for buying new scuba toys on every dive vacation I take, and I take at least two a year. When I left for San Pedro I had $1500.00 US in my pocket for a new regulator. Something nice .... something titanium. I can think of no good reason the people of AC should not have benifited from this, but they didn't, because there just wasn't anything to buy.

[This message has been edited by Florian (edited 06-01-2001).]

While in San Pedro I ate snapper, the conch, jerk chicken, the deep fried fish stuffed with cheddar cheese (awful, but what does one expect) and the chow mein at Master Lee's (the best meal on the island). Nothing special, but adequate--certainly not "wonderful".

Florian -
I don't know what kind of food you like, but next time you're in NOLA, conatct us. We'll take you to the Bistro at Maison de Ville -- they cook their Foie Gras perfect, although, for the best flavor(in Jeanne's opinion) go to the Windsor Court.
we're staying at Cayo Espanto - gourmet chefs who send a four page questionnaire about your tastes. We like the best of both worlds.
This thread is beginning to sound like Idaho divers. Bill and I have never been to Belize, but Bill has been to Negril many, many times at Xtabe. He may not like it in Belize.
To each their own.

BTW - My 5 yr.old daughter likes Brittney Spears. My 2&1/2yr.old son likes Jaws and Ghostbusters themes.
Do I argue with them? Do I try to change their minds? To each their own.

Let me give my two cents worth on the food, I tried the 'real' local stuff that many of you boosted of, johnny cakes, meat pies, and from the street venders who peddel, tacos, tamales and such items, I found for me the stuff was worse than bad, when I got the tamales and ate them I spent most of my time picking or spitting out the bones, they seem to just chop up the whole chicken, bones and all, I question if they gut the damn thing before they cook it.

We did find a place or three that was to our liking, Jade Garden, Fido's, Jambel Jerkpit where the jerk conch was killer good, Estel's was another good place for a conch dinner.

I did eat at many of the 'real local' spots for lunch and got very tired of the rice, beans, chicken, and looking at fish that still had their heads on.

Now about that 'dirty little islands outhouse' I suffer from a super sensitive digestive system, where most anything outside of my normal diet tears me up, even eating 'lomotil' like candy does not help me.
If on that little island and you are eating your lunch and noticing some brownish liquid fluid squirting into the ocean, the one you just got out of and about to get into again.... just seems to make me sick.

As many have said 'to each their own' SO why can't a few of us post our trip report as we see it without a bunch of you 'rose colored' glass wearers trash us for our reports as we see it? We ALL go there for different reasons, don't we? But it seems to me MOST go for the party time, the socalled good local food, the wondering in town (more than likly staggering from the party effect)

Enough for now, as I don't want this to turn into another 'idaho diver' thread that will get pulled or locked for new entries.


[This message has been edited by Idaho_diver (edited 06-01-2001).]

haven't been on here in a few days!! LMAO!! ANYONE who goes to AC, and truly did not do their homework/research on the place before going...well, it truly sounds like a "spoiled American" to me....and i'm an 8th generation Texan...that place is PARADISE to me...I don't dive, Rick is certified, but hasn't dived in BZ. I couldn't believe it when after the hurricane last year, yes there was sewage problems then...but Americans that were visiting didn't know what the bucket of water was for that was sitting on the floor by the toilet!!! Am i being weird...do other people know, when the toilet don't flush and a bucket of water is sitting there, WHAT that bucket of water is for??? SPOILED Americans and it's a sad, sad shame!! No sewage problems now...and you DO have to look for the really poverty stricken places! As for the food...figured out the really good places...still prefer the "Smaller" independantly owned...Florian,,, I hope you never have to do WITHOUT....Angel Blessings!!! C

Idaho, did you go out to the Atolls and have lunch on a little island that had one of those outhouses on stilts?

I've only been to two of these little places (but more than once) and on none of those occasions was the outhouse in the line of sight during lunch. None of these little places are entertaining rafts of tourists all day long everyday. There's just not that much extra going into the ocean.

I don't want to belabor this point because I've already said in an earlier post that for Canadian's and American's, these little outhouses are disconcerting, at best. However, I must ask you just what you think you are diving in and around most of the time you are in the water, whereever you dive. I'm sure you really don't want an analysis.

Also, the outhouses were always on the opposite side of the little island from the dock and we did not dive off of the little islands. There was a lot of cleansing wave action for anything more substantial than a yellow stream. Man, there have got to be better things to worry about.

Did you see the sharks in the Blue Hole? Did you see any dolphins? Where do suppose theirs goes?

Seashell, I was on the same island as Idaho I think. Down at Turneffe. The fish underneath the outhouse waiting for a meal acutally did little for my appitite, and then the little momma dog with mange so bad she was scratched bloody behind the ears and such, well, it's true, I did not eat lucnch that day at all.

Look, I"m not all that squemish. I grew up on a farm, if you could call it that. I don't have a problem with mother nature or her animals or their passings. But even growing up without indoor plumbing (well, we got it when I was six), we knew to dig the outhouse away from the house and to move it now and then and fill the old one in and, well, I was pretty young but the folks did what had to be done to keep the place clean.

The difference between being exposed to cowdung and human excretment is the difference between washing it off and hoping you still don't stink too bad, and getting hepititus and/or about a million other diseases. I was in the airborne infantry back in the early 70's and I learned a thing or two about what exposure to dirty waters in strange lands can do to poor ol' Flo.

OK, Florian, what you are describing is different from what I experienced and the dog does sound pretty gross. Personally, I never looked down. I didn't want to know. :^)

One the other hand, I've had to go in a hole in Indonesia and there is no tissue either. You have to slop yourself clean with a scoop of water if you are lucky enough. The western style facilities in the shopping centre in Hong Kong was way worse than anything I've experienced anywhere. Well, so sorry folks, more than enough of this subject I guess. I'll stop now and again offer my apologies.

Hey Florian, email us I want to talk with you... Rickcheri@hotmail.com.. This is Rick

Was going to stay out of this discussion but I too have to add my two cents regarding the outhouse over the water.
I worked for a year at the University of Belize in a project that developed a field station at one of the atolls and quickly became a member of every committee in Belize that has to do with research, conservation, development, ie any issue affecting the coastal zone.
One of the issues in developing the field station that we faced was how to deal with human waste. Any island (especially heavily populated ones like Ambergris Caye)have the capacity to have a major environmental impact due to improper and large scale development. Issues like waste disposal, sewer, water, etc if not properly addressed can wreak havoc with the very enirons that folks are coming to see.
The way that we dealt with human waste and the way that is recommended by the coastal zone management agency in Belize is to use composting toilets (that is what we used). However, it is not used widespread, only by govt. agencies and conservation minded folks
who have installed these little gems in their facilities. Although I am not suggesting that this is the only alternative, it does lead me into my next line of thought which is that the folks who visit the little caye for a toilet stop and the folks who utilize that little toilet stop could put together a concerted effort to "educate" the fisherman on the caye and put a composting toilet there. It does have to be maintained though...
BTW for laughs and grins only...Smithsonian has been doing research in Belize for over 20 years and prior to a fire in 97 their scientists had been using an over water toilet very near to the barrier reef (and many of their research sites) up until then. I was told that the impact was minimal. They do have a composting toilet now.


[This message has been edited by bzgial (edited 06-02-2001).]

Now hasn't this been a real release of stuff.
But informative, and good imput and output.
I for one say "enough of the toilet" talk. LAUGH, just kidding.

Yeah, we've pretty much covered the sewage question I think, except to say this. I'm not being the ugly American here. I'm being a consumer of services that AC goes to great leangths to promote.

When I last visited the Florida Keys, about a year ago, they were wrestling with this same problem, the expense was profound and very hard on the locals. When I think of this and other common human problems, I don't see boarders, I see people. I don't think I could possibly have a less "colonial" attitude about Belize, or anyplace else. The things I've said about the food on AC would be just as true of my hometown. You can't get a good meal here. But we're not promoting ourselves as a vacation destination, either.

The thing is that Ambergris Caye and many of the businesses on it advertize pretty heavily in the dive magizines and on the web in order to attract vacationing divers. Divers in general are a pretty good group to try to attract because they tend spend quite a bit of money. Diving itself isn't cheep, and then there are all the cool toys.

And that's just it. I paid $120.00 US to make that trip down to Truneffe. That is serious money for a dive day anywhere you want to go, and for it I expect a little better then the place we had lunch, is all. It's not like I want to tell the Belizans what to do or how to live. But where I'm taken for lunch, when I'm paying and paying well, that IS my business.

Some of the things I've said relate back to my dislike of the Great Southwestern American Car Culture. I mean, when I see the power lines strung around all over in the air in San Pedro, I think to myself about home, where we do it the same damn ugly way, and I'm wishing better for the folks on AC. I think strip malls with vacant lots inbetween and power lines dominating the skyline and everything built on the scale of cars not people, well, it's ugly, and I'm not wishing it on anyone.

I think AC has the somewhat rare opportunity to by-pass many if not most of the bad things about industrialized sociaty. Pollution, social detachment, stratification of wealth, abuse of the land.

I really hope they keep their "island life" too, and keep the shorter work week and mandate many holidays and good vacation for their workers, with emphisis on time to be with one's family. I've worked a 96 hour work week for the last 20 years, and looking back that was a mistake. (I work 56 hours per week as a firefighter/paramedic and a minimum of 40 hours a week at my off-duty job. It's not as tough as it sounds, but it should be no great shock that I'm twice divorced and barely know my child.) Happily, I am retiring in 74 days, at 45, and I'm going to be making some changes.

[This message has been edited by Florian (edited 06-02-2001).]

Florian, Bravo! I like the way you write and tell us what is on your mind and heart.
Good insight. I know I would love to meet you and talk, you are my kind of person.
Now Now I am not hitting on you, I could be your Mom almost. LOL When you speak, I do not have to ask where is the "beef". Your profession has given you much understanding, wisdom and maturity at a young age.

[This message has been edited by Chloe (edited 06-02-2001).]