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#418506 - 10/12/11 10:32 AM Seafood Guide to Belize
MathieusDeli Offline
At Mathieu's Delicatessen on middle St next to Dr Daniel's clinic, we have free credit card fold out Seafood Guides to Belize. These are produced by the ScienceToAction, agriculture ministry, Monterey Bay Aquarium, Research Academy and Healthy Reefs for Healthy People organzations.

The Guide comprehensively lists what has a complete ban on it (Parrotfish, diced lobster, Blue tang AMONGST others), when the closed seasons are for Conch, Lobster, Nassau Grouper, Wild Shrimp, Hicatee, Size and catch limits, Special permits and laws regarding Sea Cucumber, Fillets, traps etc and a short write up on "why you should care", "you are what you eat", Lionfish, and "making a difference"

Please drop by and pick one up! They slip easily into a wallet or small purse.

We have already seen "a very prestigious" establishment reported to Fisheries for serving Parrot Fish on their menu, and we see now the restaurateur in Caye Caulker successfully prosecuted for undersized lobster - MAKE A DIFFERENCE NOW and be in the know about what is permitted and what is not.
_________________________
Mathieu's Delicatessen

Gunter the original & best.... baker, chef: breads, breakfast, lunch, FOOD!

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#418509 - 10/12/11 10:38 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
Diane Campbell Offline
Good work Gunter.

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#418512 - 10/12/11 11:20 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
captjeff Offline
Great Idea ,both of guys are great
Whats wrong with you two ???

#1 Your food is world class and one of the best on the island
#2 Your sweet nice people who love what they do,and smile
#3 You are envoled with the local folks and community.
#4 You enjoy life and the island and live the dream
SO WHATS WRONG WITH YOU TWO ??? LOL.


Edited by captjeff (10/12/11 11:21 AM)
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Living The Dream Every Day!

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#418524 - 10/12/11 01:02 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: captjeff]
SnoopysMom Offline
They are ALL RIGHT smile
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https://www.facebook.com/GreenFairyBelize

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#418544 - 10/12/11 04:40 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
aj baxter Offline
Is there a season on barracuda? I have heard conflicting opinions on this fish.
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AJ Baxter
Picture Belize Blog
http://picturebelize.blogspot.com/

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#418548 - 10/12/11 04:50 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
Amanda Syme Offline
There are certain times of the year when Barracuda is more likely to be toxic - maybe that is what people are talking about.

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#418553 - 10/12/11 05:15 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
aj baxter Offline
When can barracuda be toxic?
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AJ Baxter
Picture Belize Blog
http://picturebelize.blogspot.com/

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#418558 - 10/12/11 06:11 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
Amanda Syme Offline
I think it is the really hot summer months but would have to check with a fisherman. But everybody that I know that has ever been poisoned by barracuda was during the months of july and august.

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#418559 - 10/12/11 06:13 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
Hon Offline
I thought barracuda toxicity was a size issue?
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Newfoundlanders are the only people in heaven who want to go home.

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#418561 - 10/12/11 06:19 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
aj baxter Offline
I thought the toxicity was related to a bacteria/algae that accumulates in the apex predators and is possibly related to a certain algal bloom that may have its own cycle?
_________________________
AJ Baxter
Picture Belize Blog
http://picturebelize.blogspot.com/

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#418593 - 10/13/11 09:09 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
elbert Offline
The toxicity is from a by-product of the bacteria Ciguatera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciguatera
The older the fish the more likely large amounts have accumulated in its flesh.
Its regional and I don't believe we have a problem with it here unlike some areas of Florida.
I have eaten barracuda form the sea here in Belize for over 20 years its a favorite of mine and I've never had a problem with it. but i wouldn't touch one from Florida!
Lots of weird superstitious like info out there about ciguatera and barracuda.
If you order fish in restaurants in San Pedro you will occasionally be served barracuda under one of its aliases like 'Snapper' or 'Grouper'....IMHO
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The Dive Shops Daily Blog
http://scubalessonsbelize.blogspot.com/

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#418626 - 10/13/11 11:03 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
Amanda Syme Offline
Nurse Natalie's grandson almost died from ciguatera poisoning last summer. He stopped breathing. He was in the hospital in the city on life support and it was touch and go for a while. Bruce J also contracted it here. This summer my friend and her entire family ended up in the hospital and she almost lost her husband. All attributed to a single fish they ate.

We definitely have infected fish here. Thankfully there are not too many cases.

If I eat barracuda I try to make sure I know how big it was. The bigger ones are more likely to be toxic.

Barracuda are not the only fish that can be infected with ciguatera but it is usually the most likely culprit.

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#418628 - 10/13/11 11:41 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
collyk Offline
The larger fish also contain high levels of mercury.
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Belize Wedding Photography

http://www.belizebirdrescue.com/bekindbelize.html

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#418633 - 10/13/11 12:11 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: collyk]
MathieusDeli Offline
We regularly eat Barracuda - it's one of our favorite fish to eat and serve.

Our regular customers will know that EVERY item that we purchase to prepare (beef, lamb, fish etc) is tasted RAW by Gunter before we serve it.

We have never had an issue with "bad fish" (or meat - given that Gunter has over 30 years' experience in the restaurant business if he chose bad meat we'd be worried!), although we are well aware of people's superstitions, and we do know of people being poisoned, but, as Elbert points out, not in Belize.

Anyway - Capt Jeff.... what's wrong with us? Obviously.... we don't have enough tables or space!!!
_________________________
Mathieu's Delicatessen

Gunter the original & best.... baker, chef: breads, breakfast, lunch, FOOD!

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#418643 - 10/13/11 02:22 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
captjeff Offline
GUNTER ,YOU RIGHT YOU NEED MORE SPACE lol.
YOUR THE BEST ,LOVE YOU GUYS ..It is nice to see people do well and enjoy what they do ..YOU TO LOOK LIKE YOUR LIVING THE DREAM AND GOOD FOR YOU .


Edited by captjeff (10/13/11 04:08 PM)
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Living The Dream Every Day!

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#418652 - 10/13/11 05:15 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: collyk]
Bear Offline
Originally Posted By: collyk
The larger fish also contain high levels of mercury.


Yikes! smile That statement might be a bit over the top but I know what you're trying to say...I wouldn't want people to think theyre going to be walking thermometers after eating a good sized fish. Not every large fish contains high levels of mercury and some large fish have very low levels of mercury. It would be more accurate to say larger fish are more likley to contain higher levels of mercury.

Ciguatera can be considered regional but in areas not considered to be "regionally affected" it may be present on one section of reef and not on others. It's a very perplexing critter...Here's a very good (but fairly technical) article written by two of the preeminent authorities on the subject...

http://www.ncf-net.org/library/CiguateraToxicon.pdf

and a study performed in Belize

http://www.sil.si.edu/digitalcollections/atollresearchbulletin/issues/00569.pdf

With respect to mercury...

http://www.greenfacts.org/en/mercury/l-2/mercury-2.htm

Note sections 2.3 & 2.4 specificaly

specific study on mercury in southern Belizean coastal waters

http://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2008/theme/Goliath/goliathpp7.pdf

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#418700 - 10/14/11 03:08 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: Bear]
seashell Offline
A friend of mine ate barracuda whilst on a dive trip on Little Corn Island. Initially, he darn near died. Passing that, regardless for a very long time, he suffered many nasty symptoms not the least of which was partial paralysis. Because of all of this he was unable to work and even once back to work, didn't dive for a number of years. It's been awhile but last time I saw him, he said he was doing better. Frankly, IMNSHO, he'll never ever be the same.

I won't knowingly eat barracuda or grouper. Knew about the ciguatera before his experience but now I've seen the potential results right in front of me. Nope, no barracuda for me.
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A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where will they build their nest?


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#418707 - 10/14/11 08:15 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
collyk Offline
"There is, however, data regarding mercury for fish in Belize. A recent study that found Belize is not immune to the mercury issues in top predators. Sharks and goliath grouper generally had methylmercury levels above the EPA threshold for consumption advisories. Among sedentary sharks, the level of mercury was higher among larger animals. In goliath grouper, there was also some stable isotope evidence that the fish feeding higher on the food chain also tended to contain more mercury. However, that pattern could also be due to the proximity of individual fish to polluted waters. Some data showed that mercury issues may be worse closer to Honduras and Guatemala (where water pollution issues are also much worse). In general, the normal cautions for fish high on the food chain are in order. No more than twice a week for small children or pregnant women." - from a biologist
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Belize Wedding Photography

http://www.belizebirdrescue.com/bekindbelize.html

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#418738 - 10/14/11 10:30 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: collyk]
Bear Offline
Originally Posted By: collyk
"There is, however, data regarding mercury for fish in Belize. A recent study that found Belize is not immune to the mercury issues in top predators. Sharks and goliath grouper generally had methylmercury levels above the EPA threshold for consumption advisories. Among sedentary sharks, the level of mercury was higher among larger animals. In goliath grouper, there was also some stable isotope evidence that the fish feeding higher on the food chain also tended to contain more mercury. However, that pattern could also be due to the proximity of individual fish to polluted waters. Some data showed that mercury issues may be worse closer to Honduras and Guatemala (where water pollution issues are also much worse). In general, the normal cautions for fish high on the food chain are in order. No more than twice a week for small children or pregnant women." - from a biologist


Thank you Colly! I think this clarifies exactly what we're both trying to say, not all large fish are over mercury standards, but larger fish tend to have more, and in some areas they are over certain standards, and that normal consumption guidelines should be followed. Well done!

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#418740 - 10/14/11 10:50 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: Bear]
MathieusDeli Offline
Originally Posted By: Bear
I wouldn't want people to think theyre going to be walking thermometers after eating a good sized fish


We don't profess to Gunter being a "walking thermometer " (though personally I find him rather hot) with regards Mercury..... And yes we do serve Barracuda occasionally on our menu, and have never had a problem with it. However given the quotes and views above maybe we should take it off our "preferred fish" menu.... what do you think?

Anecdotal but true - a good friend of mine was on the well known live aboard boat company dive tour out of Grenada and the entire boat came down with Ciguatera, in the middle of nowhere between islands, they had to SOS radio out, and found a yacht nearby owned and captained by two doctors who pretty much turned the dining room into a makeshift hospital with drips etc. Peter Hugues himself who happened to be on the tour was also affected. Every individual on that boat got badly sick ..... bar two.... one staff member (who didn't eat fish), and my friend, who, being rather too much of a foodie, claimed that he actually ate seconds (and I wouldn't put it past him to have understated that). A couple of guests were hospitalized for a couple of weeks after they got into port. Is it possible that you can be "immune" to Ciguatera??
_________________________
Mathieu's Delicatessen

Gunter the original & best.... baker, chef: breads, breakfast, lunch, FOOD!

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#418747 - 10/14/11 11:42 AM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
Bear Offline
Quote:
We don't profess to Gunter being a "walking thermometer " (though personally I find him rather hot) with regards Mercury..... And yes we do serve Barracuda occasionally on our menu, and have never had a problem with it. However given the quotes and views above maybe we should take it off our "preferred fish" menu.... what do you think?


I think that would be way, way, premature and unecessary MD & Gunter.

This is exactly the point of my original post; to defuse the notion that all large fish have (dangerously) high levels of methylmercury. There is no reason to think that every large fish (or barracuda since thats the peche du jour) has high (inedible) levels of mercury. I agreed with CollyK's subsequent post becasue it more accurately assess the issue; contaminats (all contaminants) bioaccumulate more in the larger specimens of apex species, but not all (large fish) contain levels considered "unsafe". Her citation speicifically states that in the Gulf of Honduras they did find unsafe levels in two speces (only shark and Goliath grouper), and probably due to the elevated levels of pollution in those waters.

The accurate statement is that larger fish tend to accumulate more as a result of their position on the food chain but that does not mean they are over a recommended consumption level as might have been implied in an earlier statement. It is appropriate to note the consumption guidelines for children and pregant women, and to keep in mjind that larger fish tend to bioconcentrate. To yank/remove/Kaibosh/electrophorese a popular menu and local fare item at yyour restaurant based on the statements made on this or any forum, other than a credible local health advisory, would be inappropriate until such time as data demonstrates otherwise.

In fact after all my research of available online literature I could only find references to Gulf of Honduras studies. I could find nothing regarding either the presence of any regional ciguatera occurrences or unsafe levesl of methyl mercury in food species near AC. Yes ciguatera can show up, and yes mercury tends to be elevated in apex species but again there is no evidence that there is anything unusual about either in one of AC's most favorite food fish, the barracuda.

Please dont take it off the menu! I look forward to coming in a gnoshing on a nice barrie filet in the near future!

EDIT" please excuse the typos I speared my indec finger on one of my larger Rapala's llast night...


Edited by Bear (10/14/11 01:27 PM)

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#418780 - 10/14/11 01:10 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: MathieusDeli]
collyk Offline
I do and have eaten Barracuda. It's up to all of us to be well informed about what we eat and drink. Risks we choose to take are very personal. We all know the risks associated with lots of things that we do but continue to do them. I don't think there is any reason at all it should be taken off the menu anymore than rice, pork or lettuce - all commonly known to be associated with poisoning in some parts of the world. Know about what you eat and where it came from (learn about factory farmed chickens and see how safe you feel eating them afterwards) and then eat and enjoy. That's what I think anyway.
_________________________
www.conchcreative.com
Belize Wedding Photography

http://www.belizebirdrescue.com/bekindbelize.html

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#418783 - 10/14/11 01:28 PM Re: Seafood Guide to Belize [Re: collyk]
Bear Offline
Originally Posted By: collyk
I do and have eaten Barracuda. It's up to all of us to be well informed about what we eat and drink. Risks we choose to take are very personal. We all know the risks associated with lots of things that we do but continue to do them. I don't think there is any reason at all it should be taken off the menu anymore than rice, pork or lettuce - all commonly known to be associated with poisoning in some parts of the world. Know about what you eat and where it came from (learn about factory farmed chickens and see how safe you feel eating them afterwards) and then eat and enjoy. That's what I think anyway.



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