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#421987 - 11/14/11 08:43 PM Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern
Biologist Cherie Offline
To Concerned Residents and Resort Owners,

ACES is receiving complaints about the area into which we have been relocating problematic crocodiles. First, despite the rumors, ACES does not relocate problematic crocs into immediate residential areas, nor are we placing them in captivity and letting them escape. ACES hears and agrees with the relocation concerns one hundred percent and feels that the communities of Ambergris Caye need to come together to find the solution, hence a croc containment facility for education and tourism. No matter if we took these croc 100 miles away, it has been scientifically proven that they will normally return to where they came from originally. ACES has been providing a free community service of removing problematic crocs that are causing immediate danger to pets and people. We have been relocating these crocs to an area that is being proposed to become a wildlife sanctuary off of the public road leading into Grande Belize Estates Development where there are no immediate homes. For the record, there are only eight large repeat offending problematic crocs that we have relocated to the area north. Thus, we are re-capturing and relocating the same animals more than once, we are not bringing more crocs into the area. The relocated crocs keep returning to their southern homes. American crocodiles are not only an endangered species, but a very important part of keeping the island's ecosystem in balance and cannot just "be killed."

ACES has been suggesting an educational containment facility for over a year now and has even hand delivered proposals that are available for viewing at AmericanCrocodileSanctuary.org. We are a transparent non-profit organization and are willing to hold a public meeting and divulge our past years expenses, funding, and the estimated costs of the proposed educational tourist eco-attraction for the island. Please call Vince at 631-6366 with suggestions and concerns. Vince is happy to meet with you in person at your convenience.

Sincerely,Vince & Cherie
_________________________
Cherie Chenot-Rose
ACES/American Crocodile Education Sanctuary
Help Take a Bite Out of Extinction!

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#422181 - 11/16/11 01:23 PM Re: Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern [Re: Biologist Cherie]
Diane Campbell Offline
I don't believe that euthanizing 8 dangerous, problem crocs is going to endanger the environment.
As you point out at other times, the "normal" croc in the wild is not really a threat. I don't advocate wholesale slaughter, but putting down the problem ones seems not only sensible, but mandatory for public safety.
The crazy part of this whole "relocation" thing is that the pubic can't tell a "good" croc from a "bad" croc. So now that we know you are dumping killer crocs around, and that additionally they will re-appear at the scene of former crimes --- we've got a situation where virtually every single croc people see may be suspected of being one of the killer-8.
My guess is that a fair amount of the general croc population will meet their demise as a result ------


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#422234 - 11/16/11 03:58 PM Re: Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern [Re: Biologist Cherie]
SFJeff Offline
First off:

"we are re-capturing and relocating the same animals more than once, we are not bringing more crocs into the area"

"For the record, there are only eight large repeat offending problematic crocs that we have relocated to the area north."

Huh???

So no more crocs have been introduced to the area... I mean save for those 8 large problematic ones.


...the other "crazy part" about this whole "relocation" thing is that, by ACES's own admission, relocation does not do any good! (especially when you're talking about only "relocating" the croc a few miles.)

One can argue (compellingly) that it is taking a localized problem and making it worse & broader in scope. Sure, a problem croc in say, San Pedrito might very well tire of its surroundings and move to a different area on its own accord. Trap that croc and "relocate" it 5 or ten miles, and now the odds are pretty much 100% it will immediately affect a larger area. No???

Please answer this: in the absence of a completed containment facility, if one is NOT going to put a problem croc down, what GOOD exactly does it do to trap them and move them a few miles? I mean, less they are camped out in someone's living room, might as well you not simply leave them where they currently ARE???

EX: the big croc at the WASA pond was/is an accident waiting to happen, but before trapping it, at least people knew that it was IN THE WASA POND. It was of negligible worry by the part of, say the pool cleaner at Las Terrazas, that they would find it swimming in the resort pool one morning.

Everyone on this island obviously lives with crocs as a day to day reality of the environment here... and it would serve everyone to conduct ourselves with respect to crocs in a sensible matter (don't feed them, etc.) But shuttling the problem crocs to and fro around the island though, seems to undermine the very goal of what ACES hopes to achieve (protect an endangered species.)

It just stirs the croc pot so to speak.

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#422521 - 11/18/11 04:41 PM Re: Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern [Re: SFJeff]
zoomom Offline
Hi All,

Just for a reference point, have any of you been to Yosemite Valley and dealt with the bears there? They are a constant problem for the visitors (I think over 1,000000 visitors a year). The best hope is that they (the authorities) remove the bears safely and relocate them in the high country (away from the public).

Sometimes certain bears keep coming back - then they become problematic. But the other times, the bears stay in the high country and give birth and go on to raise their cubs up away from people.

What are you going to do? You can't kill off an entire population of animals. I think ACES has the best answer to the people/croc situation for the time being. Build a permanent containment facility for the problem crocs. Educate the public and keep the animals alive at the same time.


Edited by zoomom (11/18/11 04:50 PM)
_________________________
Executive Director at Children's Science Center

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#422529 - 11/18/11 06:43 PM Re: Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern [Re: Biologist Cherie]
Diane Campbell Offline
Zoo-mom ---- the ideas you express have great merit for the future. But this is about TODAY. The reality we face is there are 8 chronic crocs that are camping out in populated areas (under houses etc) and are known to be killing domestic pets.

ACES admits that the relocation plan has not worked. If relocation worked, it would be an interesting and useful solution, but it would still be irresponsible to relocate these problem animals within 1/4 mile of an area where there are substantial resorts and many homes.
That is what is being done now - relocation is being done not "far" from people, but much to near. One of these problem "relocation" crocs already walked into a fenced resort and got in the pool --- imagine if an unsuspecting tourist jumped in?

Nobody in this debate is suggesting a wholesale killing of crocs. Containment would be great if it were possible. ACES is not doing containment at this time.

Meanwhile - how long til a child becomes a victim.

Euthanasia is not a pleasant solution, but this is Belize and we don't have deep enough pockets to get running water to villages or put shoes on kids feet --- so the croc cause is likely to take significant time to gain traction.
If the people who can humanely put an animal down don't do it, there are other more reckless ones who will do so, and more than likely cause uncessary suffering in the process. That is our reality - today.

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#422530 - 11/18/11 06:54 PM Re: Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern [Re: Biologist Cherie]
GwenA Offline
I agree 100 percent with what you posted Diane. Very rational. Something really should be done before high season, as there will be lots of innocent tourists and their kids, bopping around the Island. The boat/snorkeler accident was a sad incident for us and tourism. I would hate to see another. A tourist/croc accident would be equally terrible.

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#422531 - 11/18/11 06:59 PM Re: Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern [Re: Biologist Cherie]
champion Offline
Its really no different than the three time you're out offenders here in the states. They get locked up for life. In this case, thats not real. So put them down humanely.
_________________________
Reality is only an illusion that occurs due to a lack of alcohol

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