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#57146 09/26/02 01:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 209
KBG Offline
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Lan,
Thanks for putting in your 2cents about time shares. I have been in the real estate appraisal business for 30+ years and have seen many time shares mad mad come and go. Looks good on paper and the first owner who subdivides his property and sells it as time shares often makes out like a pirate. The reminder of the time usually the time share owners get tired of their time share and want to resell it and cannot. Property falls in disrepair and no one wants to pay for common grounds and upkeep. Just another flop and the neighborhood area takes the hit. Hopefully timeshares will not go over in SP. Anyone thinking of buying a time share needs to do some research on this and other SP boards by simply typing in Basil Jones and reading all the post. Hope any prospective time share buyers will do this.
KBG

#57147 09/26/02 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,677
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OK, I see it. Ditto on the timeshares. Even in a beautiful place, life is too short, too unpredictable, and there are too many other beautiful places, to invest a lot of money in a timeshare, and then let someone else take it down the tubes.


Been there, done that, the washing machine ate the T-shirt
#57148 09/26/02 04:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 713
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When I told Izzy about Toonen's timeshare scheme, he suggested that I look into the legalities of timeshare in Belize, from the standpoint of property owership; ie, does Belizean law even allow such fractional interests to be conveyed? I know that for a long time, it was not legally possible to convey good title to (for example) the upstairs or downstairs alone in a two-unit building. Now I understand there is a true condo law, so that's no longer an issue. But what about fractional interests?

And even more importantly: Can an owner sell his interest in property governed by a homeowners' association in fractioal shares and remain in compliance with the CCR's? Who pays the dues? Who assumes responsibility for assessments on top of dues? Who is responsible for ensuring that none of the fractional owners do anything that violates the CCR's? Who gets paid if there is a hurricane and the insurance company has to pay for major repairs? And will an insurance company even cover timeshare units? And if not, are not all remaining non timeshare owners placed at great risk because if some units are in disrepair, everyone's property values (and rentability) goes down?
Indeed, timeshare conversion may not be possible under typical common interest development CCR's.
Has anyone had to deal with this, either in Belize or anywhere else? Real property law is not my area of expertise, and I don't know the answers to these questions. Perhaps some of the realtors, insurance agents and developers on this list (and lawyers, if any) will share their views on this issue. I am very concerned about the impact on our property as well as the social aspects of creeping timeshare-itis.


Susan Guberman-Garcia, Attorney at Law. Phone: 510-792-2639
Fax/Voicemail:: 510-405-2016 Email: [email protected]
#57149 09/26/02 04:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 713
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Furthermore: It seems to me that even if its possible to have a common interest development ("CID")and timeshares co exist in the same place (which seems more and more questionable the more I think about it), is not the Homeowers association at great risk of litigation, when Toonen gets sued for fraud by an unhappy buyer (as he most surely will, as one can easily by the fact that his web site is already misrepresenting that "Paradise Villas" is a "resort" that HE owns rather than a common interest development composed of numerous private condo owners, of which is is only one, albeit he owns more units than any of the other owners)?
We, the remaining owners, would have to assess ourselves to pay attorney's fees to deal with such litigatio. And we will also have to assess ourselves again, so that the homeowners' association manager can double her hours keeping track of all the paperwork triggered by fractional owers, more litigation, etc. etc.

I just don't see how you can have timeshares in a CID....and of course, when the would be timeshare developer is himeself a member of the board, mustn't he speedily resign, since there is a conflict of interest?

Any of you other property owners ever had to deal with such a can of worms?


Susan Guberman-Garcia, Attorney at Law. Phone: 510-792-2639
Fax/Voicemail:: 510-405-2016 Email: [email protected]
#57150 09/27/02 09:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 65
T
OP Offline
T
Well Thank you for all your input. I really mean that. I would like to go over the Mac problems with Lan when you have some time. If you could email me and give me some info on Browser version etc and also operating system version that would be great. My email is [email protected]. Also tell me exactly what problems you are having.

I am also glad to hear the input about the timeshare stuff. It is really nice to hear from visitors to the Island and what they have to say about things. I will make sure that our owner gets a chance to see your comments.

To Susang: I am sorry about your thoughts regarding our marketing of the villas and I will bring up your concerns during my next conversation with Bill.

I believe that we make it clear on the Blue Hole web site that the complex is a condominium resort ei: "Belize Tradewinds' Paradise Villas is one of the premier resorts in San Pedro, it was the first condominium resort constructed on Ambergris Caye."

Thanks Again

#57151 09/27/02 10:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 713
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Dear Travelin' Man: I realize that you are NOT Bill Toonen, you just work for him and you are not responsible for his conduct, so please don't take any of this as a personal attack on you...I understand that you are not to blame. But, since he chooses to put you "out front" instead of defending his conduct himself, I have to reply to you.

In fact, Toonen's description of what he owns in Paradise Villas (n the "invest" page of his Blue Hole site) is very misleading. He says:

"We have decided to follow the format used by Disney World, to include both the Tradewinds Paradise Villas, and the new Tradewinds Blue Hole Resort in a point system to allow owners to pick from the two resorts at different times of the year. Ownership of the time-share would be of a Tradewinds Paradise Villas unit. That unit would be put into a trust for the benefit of the individual owners. The purchase would be in the form of points. There would be a different point value assigned to different units at different times of the year. An owner could spend a whole week at the resort of their choice, or split the week, three days at one and four days at the other. They could also bank their points if they didn't want to go one year or they could borrow points if they wanted to stay longer one year. The resorts will be an RCI affiliate properties. This is a big plus for owners, since there are few RCI resorts in Belize. Therefore, that gives owners a lot of leverage on the world trading market..."

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE ABOVE?

1. There is no such entity as "Tradewinds Paradise Villas" nor is there a "resort" by that name, much less one that can become an "RCI affiliate property." "Tradewinds Paradise Villas" is a nom de plume that Bill uses to market those Paradise Villas condos that he owns. He is simply a condo owner who happens to own several units instead of just 2 like most of the rest of us. Furthermore, the condos are governed by a Homeowners Association. Our association has ZERO to do with "RCI" and it will continue that way (as Bill well knows.)
2. Therefore, Bill is attempting to extract money from would be buyers who see his web site for something that does not exist and that will not exist and cannot exist (until such time as he buys out the other 18 owners, which is not going to happen in our lifetime). That is called "false advertising."
3. I understand that Bill needs cash to build his Blue Hole Resort. But he ought not try to raise it by misleading the public about what he owns and what he has the power to sell and thereby taint the rest of us Paradise Villas owners with the bad reputation that will inevitably spill over onto the development as a whole. If he can't pay for his new venture, he should sell some or all of his Paradise Villas condos honestly to raise capital.


Susan Guberman-Garcia, Attorney at Law. Phone: 510-792-2639
Fax/Voicemail:: 510-405-2016 Email: [email protected]
#57152 09/27/02 11:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 8,868
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It is not at all unusual to have a mix of timeshare and whole unit ownership in the same development. Tradewinds mentions that they intend to place each unit into a trust for the benefit of the share owners... a common method of timeshare ownership and one that in no way violates the existing condo setup.
Time share has earned a bad reputation through it's high-powered sales techniques but in actual
operation within a mixed development, you'd be hard-pressed to determine which units are timeshare and which are whole ownership... except maybe that the timeshare units are occupied more.

#57153 09/27/02 11:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 65
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Please remember that the www.belizeblueholeresort.com is web site looking for input from both persons that would like to stay there and from investors. NONE of the ideas regarding the financing or the resort itself is written in Stone. These are IDEAS.

Susang: Please try to CURB your enthusiasm! Your slanderous comments are not productive in any way whatsoever. If I may summarize your comments to this point: Time-share is not a great Idea!

Okay then that is three against the time-share thing.

Keep it coming folks.

#57154 09/27/02 11:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,850
E
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If you are intrested in Belize realestate law, call Jerry McDermont, I think he wrote most of it. :rolleyes:

#57155 09/27/02 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 25
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Timeshare............

Grab your wallet and run for cover!!!!!!!!!!!!

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