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Posted By: ChilledOut San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 04:31 AM
I have posted this response to the recent discussion on the "San Pedro Dogs-Urgent" discussion. But as this is now three pages long I have also copied it as a separate item.

"As a resident of San Pedro and a director of SAGA I would like to update everyone on the situation here and the objectives of the society.
Members of Saga met this week with the island health inspector and the recent occurences of poisoning (which were undertaken by a temporary inspector to the island) have stopped. The health inspector, town board and mayor are fully behind SAGA in respect to controlling the animal population (in a humane way) for the good of everyone.

SAGA does have a spay/neuter programme for stray animals BUT many animals with owners are not neutered and are allowed to roam freely. There is also no policy on tagging/collars and so we are often in danger of neutering (or worse destroying) someone's pet against their will. This will change over time with both the education program we are running in the schools and the license program we are working with the town board to implement. But none of this will happen overnight.

When a stray animal is taken to the clinic (we have rounded up many in the last few weeks) we do have to put down some - either due to disease or temperament. In many cases younger animals are found new homes (kittens and puppies are relatively easy to home) but the older animals are returned to the street. However having been neutered they are :
a) not reproducing
b) have no tendency to pack or attack
c) are healthier with only themselves to feed.

SAGA have never shied away from putting down an ill or dangerous animal. But a healthy neutered animal is not put down and we have numerous cases where such animals have later been adopted by either locals or tourists who have taken them home.

The issue of "stray" animals is not an easy one and I put stray in quotes because of the many that are seen this way at first glance, a high proportion have homes. Animals are not cossetted and fussed over here in the same way as in the US or UK - they are not seen as part of the family in the same way and I doubt ever will be.

SAGA will continue their work through the many unpaid volunteers on the island and we are grateful to all the support we receive from both locals and visitors. But change will not happen overnight as it is as much about education as action. We believe that change is happening - many locals now bring their pets for innoculation, neutering, etc. which was not happening a year or so ago.

So I thank everyone for their obvious interest and care of the animals and ask that you continue to support SAGA in their goals as we work with the community for humane animal care."
Posted By: SeaJay Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 05:55 AM
Chilled Out - Thanks so much for the encouraging update. For me (and I'm sure many others), it's a big relief just to hear that the poisonings have stopped. It's also very encouraging to hear that so much progress has been made in the area of educating some of the residents about responsible pet ownership. Thank you again for taking your time to fill us in.
Posted By: rickcheri Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 09:18 AM
Thanks for the update, can you send us you E addy... [email protected]
Thanks, Rick
Posted By: LaurieMar Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 02:41 PM
This is good news for AC. Pet overpopulation is a world wide problem: not just on AC. Having a pet spayed or neutered is the first step, but owning a pet is a commitment to taking care of them for their entire life. Some of the problem is with the owners!
Posted By: bywarren Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 03:16 PM
I am curious as to what tangible (money) results have come from this discourse other than Marty's money we have spent expressing our views. I think San Pedro is better off thanks to Saga's efforts. SeaJay has extended the challenge. Susan has sent her money. I will be delivering mine in person when I return and lobbying for an expanded position on euthanasia ( I was tempted to use the word liberal instead of expanded, but then I was afraid that would put me in Susan's catogory.) LOL So let's have the count. Who is putting their money up along with their opinions?
Posted By: Teenah Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 04:02 PM
chilledout, thanks for the update. I too am relieved to hear that the poisonings have stopped and that SAGA has again reached an agreement with the town council. As the person who originally started this thread, I want to say thanks to all of you who have contributed intelligent dialog to help solve this problem. Bywarren, count me in for a donation to help with the cause!
Posted By: SeaJay Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 04:39 PM
There may be some out there who consider their donations private but for those of you who want to show how much our little "discussion" has benefited SAGA'S cause, I'll start the list here. I've added a few names of people who have mentioned that they will donate (or already have). I may have missed some - if so I apologize.

Feel free to copy/paste this list and add your names to it (or fill in amounts). If any of you don't wish to show the amount, just include the words "donation". It's not so important how much we give as it is that we give what we can.

SeaJay (Cheryl and Bill) - $100
Susangg
Denverdan (Hope)
Ellydognme (Kayla)
Chloe
Island Junkie
SEAWINGS
Bywarren
Teenah
Posted By: IslandJunkie Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 05:01 PM
ChilledOut,
Thanks for your excellent work, and thank you all who have participated in this discussion. It's been fun and enlightening. My donation will be in soon.
IJ
Posted By: SEAWINGS Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 05:08 PM
Will send another donation of $$$$ and will be bringing more requested "stuff" in February.
Steve
Posted By: bywarren Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 05:33 PM
SeaJay: you are more computor literate that I am. I am wondering if it would benefit to have a new topic, like "Saga Donations", where people could just add their name and use these topics for added discusion If anyone agrees, maybe they could start it.
Posted By: SeaJay Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 05:59 PM
That sounds like a good idea Bywarren. I'll start one.
Posted By: lmarquis Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/24/02 11:37 PM
Ya know what: I made a donation when I was there in May and I do not feel compelled to tell anyone how much.
Posted By: SeaJay Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 12:02 AM
lmarquis - not a problem. A lot of people prefer to keep their donations private. No pressure for anyone to announce their donations. I think it gives some of us a little satisfaction if after all of the bickering and discussing, we can actually see that we've made some progress. The donations to SAGA from this message board is just one measurement.
Posted By: stevie Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 04:04 AM
I have been reading about this topic over the last three days. I kept having to stop and restart at a later time because I was getting either depressed or angry. I can now say I feel much better about the situation. I will be visiting AC for the first time in September. I will be making a donation in addition to packing whatever "stuff" I think will be helpful for the dogs and cats of AC. It is topics like these that show the humanity and compassion of people.
Posted By: Chloe Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 04:35 AM
Stevie we are family here, bicker yell and scream, then come together with love and compassion.

[This message has been edited by Chloe (edited 07-24-2002).]
Posted By: munichchick Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 05:34 PM
Dear Chilled Out! Thank you so much for the update and thank you for the hard work you are doing for Saga!
I am so happy that the poisoning has stopped
and you are able to help working together with the community. That is great news. When we come back to AC hopefully next February we will stop by and either bring needed items or make a $ donation. We where there to bring items to Saga in June 2001 and met Bron. She is a great Lady! I am also looking at my Saga Calendar while I am typing this. Thank you for being in San Pedro and helping Saga.
Posted By: maruke Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 06:18 PM
I too want to get in on the donation for helping solve this terrible problem. I just need to figure out how to get money on the way. Thanks. Marlene Merritt Island
Posted By: sweetjane Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 06:55 PM
i think you can send it to:

saga society
coconut drive
ambergris caye, belize
central america
Posted By: Teenah Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 11:02 PM
I just donated to SAGA on-line through their website. It was easy, convenient, and I didn't need a stamp!
Posted By: SeaJay Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/25/02 11:12 PM
You can get to SAGA'S website from "Goods & Services" on this page, but to make it a little easier, here's the address. [Linked Image]
//ambergriscaye.com/sagasociety/index.html
Posted By: munichchick Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/26/02 04:37 PM
I also just used the web site to order 2 Saga Tank Tops and paid with credit card.
Can't wait to get the them!
Posted By: GAY AND DAVID Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/26/02 05:01 PM
galveston island, texas is currently having the same problem with feral cats. the city originally set traps and would euthanize the tabbys. the rat population exploded. now, a non profit organization is trapping, sterilizing, and releasing the cats back on the beaches. they also knotch their ears for reference. they say it is working very well. fewer cats and rats.
gay
Posted By: susangg Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/26/02 06:05 PM
That's great. But your post raises an interesting scientific population: WHY did the rat population INCREASE when the number of their natural predators (cats) increased? You would have expected the rat population to go DOWN with all those hungry cats! Or maybe I misunderstood you...do you mean that when the cats were being killed the number of rats increased? That would make sense!
I adopted a feral cat, I got to her through her kitten (she brought her kitten and left her in our yard!) and by feeding her. For months she would not allow us to pick her up but now she sleeps on the bed and is a real purring machine sofa/lap cat. It takes time but it can be done. Mama and baby (now bigger than Mama) are doing fine!
Posted By: GAY AND DAVID Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/26/02 07:54 PM
sorry if i was confusing - sometimes i dangle my participles too. the rat population increased when the city stepped in and destroyed the cats. now the sterile kittys are dining on the rodents once more. i'm sure this is not a purrrrfect solution but they feel that it is helping to control both problems.
gay
Posted By: bywarren Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/26/02 10:17 PM
Now I am really confused. An attorney not defending rats. And besides, where is the equal protection doctrine?
Posted By: SEAWINGS Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/26/02 10:33 PM
Bywarren: totally agree with you.Lots of clients lost.Maybe should start a rat spaying and neutering campaign.
We think alot alike.
Posted By: bywarren Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/27/02 07:51 AM
SEAWINGS: I think you might be on to something here. We will need an organization to receive donations and do this. How about if we call it Society of Rat Lovers? "Sor Lovers" for short. Now who could we nomimate for our first chair woman? If we are going to be dealing with rats and the socio and economic issues affecting them, I would think we need someone with a legal background and off course they need to be pro life. And someone who stands by their convicitons like "speaking up when any human being or other living creature is mistreated". I guess taking all that into consideration, the person we are looking for would be an oxymoron.

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 07-27-2002).]

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 07-27-2002).]
Posted By: Chloe Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/27/02 11:36 AM
Bet I am the only Boarder that actually has a live pet mouse. His name is Topo, he was saved from being a snake's lunch. TRUE.
No my cheese has not slipped off my cracker....LOL
Posted By: bywarren Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/27/02 01:07 PM
We have a competing organization. RMCA the rat and mouse club of America. Check out www.rmca.org
Posted By: Chloe Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/27/02 01:59 PM
OMG.....I have to join another club now.
Finally a club that will have me as a member, makes my day.
Bywarren, hm how did you find that site so quickly?
Posted By: bywarren Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/27/02 03:38 PM
There are advantages to a man being quick.
Posted By: SeaJay Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/27/02 03:53 PM
I can think of at least one disadvantage to a man being quick. [Linked Image] OMG...Did I say that?
Posted By: toad Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/28/02 03:19 AM
busting ones own chops is a fine art.
Posted By: Enigma Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/29/02 04:48 AM
I'm going to ponder on this dog, rat, cat situation tonight. Surely something will come to me tomorrow. If I were you Toad, I'd be wishing that nothing was done about the rat population. If there were no rats, cats may resort to eating attention-seeking amphibians! Yikes!
Ribbet!

[This message has been edited by Enigma (edited 07-28-2002).]
Posted By: SEAWINGS Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/29/02 04:14 PM
Hey, nice work Bywarren on finding the rat site.
Ponder the fact that there are so many breeders and rat shelters in California(according to rmca).Why is that?Too many lawyers in California????
Could that be right??
Posted By: sweetjane Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 07/29/02 04:44 PM
my son keeps a beanie mouse (tiptoe) on his bed. he really wants one as a pet, but aimee's cat is a fierce hunter. she gets moles/mice every other day (leaves them for me as a gift).

once we gerbil-sat for a weekend...and she slept on top of its tank for 2 days.

i would not make a good member of this club.

(ps - SEAJAY!!!!! LOL!)
Posted By: erin Re: San Pedro Dogs - SAGA Update - 08/12/02 08:42 AM
You can add another donor to the Saga List. (Their online donation form is very handy!)

I am one of those American tourists who happened to fly two Potlickers out of AC. They are the greatest dogs. I know we could have adopted a couple from our local Humane Society (we already had a Ridgeback), but if we'd really thought to do that we may not have ended up adopting any additional dogs at all. That is, sometimes acting on impulse - without letting analysis and practicalities paralyze you - really results in one's proudest moments. (Had I really thought about how 3 dogs would fit into our lifestyle, our house, our car, etc., I might have reconsidered! Life's too short.) Besides, the dogs in the States really do stand better chances.

Next on my list? Now that Saga has nonprofit status in the US, I'll be hitting corporate America up for a big donation, or at least a match. It's the least my employer can do.

Oh, AND Saga will be getting a good plug this fall in a Portland (OR) newspaper. They're featuring our Potlickers' story.

Every little bit helps. Thanks for reminding us all of that Susan. Hats off to Saga for all they have done and continue to do!
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