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I'm finally going to get a dslr, and want one for underwater use as well as dry land.

So far the Canon 40D 10.1MP has the edge in quality, price point for an advanced amateur, and history behind it for underwater use. Lots of info on the web.

The newer 50D doesn't seem to be better, just 15MP.

And yes, I'm leaning toward Canon at this time.

I would pop for the Canon 5D 12.8MP if someone made a good case for it over the 40D. Is the full frame size really that important in underwater image quality?

Thanks in advance, and Nikon devotees, I'm open for convincing on your set-up.

Likely going with the Ikelite housing to start out with.

Oh, please advise on lenses also. I see where the 60mm is popular. My major area of interest will likely be macro.
I have a Canon 5D but I don't take it under water - I use compacts for that. I firmly believe in the adage "it's not a question of whether your housing will flood, just when".

In the Canon range (in my case just for surface use) I'd probably get the new 5Dmk2. Only just becoming available in stores, and priced a bit higher than the original 5D (though that's now come down in price). Almost 22mp, the same as the current 1Ds, though that will probably be upgraded shortly to over 30mp.

In the Nikon range there are only two models I'd go for - the D700 and the D3. The D3 is pretty expensive compared with the D700 so I'd go for the cheaper one. But then I'm a full frame addict and wouldn't buy a cropped sensor camera, of any make.

I've handled several Nikons and Nikkor lenses. IMO the quality of the lenses doesn't start to compare with my Canon L-series lenses, though there may well be good Nikkor lenses out there. One factor for Belize is that my lenses are all hermetically sealed and so long as I have a filter on the front and the back is either attached to a camera or has a cap on, the lenses are virtually waterproof. I know someone who dropped his camera (Canon 1DsIII with 100-400L lens) into a river and it was submerged for several minutes to more than 2 feet. He recovered it and carried on shooting - no water got in at all. Many other lenses aren't sealed and over time the humid atmosphere here works it way in. Hence Elbert's fungus.

Choice of a camera depends so greatly on what you'll use it for that it's difficult to make any recommendations. Full frame is better for landscapes and relatively static shots, cropped is better for action. And remember that the effective focal length of a lens is proportionate to the crop factor - a 50mm standard lens on my camera gives a true 50mm coverage, but fit it to something like a 40D or 50D and the effective focal length becomes 80. Great for reach when you're using a telephoto, not so great when you're wanting wide angle. And in general, regardless of resolution, a FF image is better than a cropped sensor one.

Where are you? I'm guessing you're in the States, but if you're in Belize we could meet up. Actually, it would be good to have periodic meeting of photographers, as there are some exceptional ones on this site (I'm thinking of Barnacle, Elbert and Maya).

If you haven't already discovered it, spend some time on http://photography-on-the.net/forum/. A really useful website focused on Canon cameras and their users. Many contributors are pros. If I knew of a Nikon-orientated equivalent I'd look at that as well, but AFAIK there isn't one.
although i am a Nikon devotte, i can't argue your canon choice. you can't go wrong with a canon,, i doubt.

about a macro lens,, i recently popped for the nikon 105-2.8 macro.
it is one kick ass lens for sure! but, with my older nikon body i have the 'cropped' sensor. that makes my 105 a 157mm. that can be a help or a hinder depending on your style.
something to keep in mind when lens shopping, i don't know the sensor size of the canon's you mentioned.
happy shopping!!!
heres a good nikon forum,,

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php
I should have said that a friend in England is a professional underwater photographer and has been for years. He had a lot of incredibly expensive Canon gear, including top-of-the-range housings whose ports alone cost GBP5k!

Yet a couple of years ago he sold it all and changed to Nikon. He said Canon charges too much for specialist lenses, but I don't know if that's the reason. All I know is that just to make the change he paid over GBP50k. He obviously thought it would be worth it. He now has three D3 bodies, two housings, with assorted specialist lenses and lighting systems. He works for National Geographic, Tauchen (German dive magazine) and others.
i agree with your underwater comment.
there is no way in hell i would take my front line camera swimming! there are plenty of good dedicated underwater cameras that cost less than the housing for your dslr!
folks have gone on for years,, myself included, with the whole nikon vs. canon discussion. it is just like the ford vs chevy,, or the toyota vs nissan type battle. no losers if you ask me!
"Where are you? I'm guessing you're in the States, but if you're in Belize we could meet up. Actually, it would be good to have periodic meeting of photographers, as there are some exceptional ones on this site (I'm thinking of Barnacle, Elbert and Maya)."

Correct, but after March 1, I'll be there about 50% of the time. Diving and fly fishing and sailing. Just retired, my investigative trips there have been fruitful, and I'm coming there instead of the Abacos, my old haunt.

Looking forward to meeting and learning from all of you.

Now, I'm probably going to go with the 40D even for underwater, but I appreciate your concerns about an expensive camera and the inevitable flooding.

So, I've been looking at the great images posted here since I joined. If these are not taken with high end cameras in high end cases, what specific cameras are you all using for those shots? Point and shoots? I was lusting after the Canon G9, which seems to be the class of point and shoots, but thought I would just get my next camera now.

Keep it coming, the info is great.
The G9's been replaced by the G10 and it remains the king of compacts. Not that it's exactly tiny, but it would fit into a jacket pocket. It now has around 15mp and takes superb pictures. For underwater use it has an underwater color correction setting which apparently works well. It also has a standard type of RAW setting which can be used in Photoshop (which is the standard photo processing software). If you've not used RAW you won't know how much more control over the end result it gives you. Nikon recently brought out an equivalent, also for around $500, which has some nice toys that the Canon doesn't have. But it's severely let down by a proprietary version of RAW that can only be processed in the software that comes with the camera. All the reviews I've read said "very nice camera, well thought out, but cannot be considered because it doesn't have proper RAW".

I'd buy the G10 with Canon's own housing. It's only good for 130ft (the Ikelite one goes to 200ft) but in practice this isn't a significant issue for almost all usage. Don't forget that you'll also need to get strobes (at least two) to get the best results, and these often cost more than the camera itself. Most strobes can be used with compacts and DSLRs of all makes.

I haven't used either 40D or 50D, but I believe there are some features on the newer model that are pretty useful. It comes down to the price/performance ration you want. But expect to pay more for the housing than the camera cost, insure it well because it WILL flood, and don't forget the cost of strobes.
Hey guys - nice info exchange. Peter - your last post may explain why I can't bring up RAW on my lap top.

Before even thinking about a camera decide on your housing. Each one is custom made for a specific model. Is the Ikelite one still made of acrylic? Then can crack if knocked against something hard.

Right now I am very unhappy with one of my old favorite companies - Light & Motion. I bought their Mako video set up and then four years later when I needed a repair (the LCD went out) was informed they no longer make or service that model. So, now with my video I am in essence shooting blind and tend to shoot high.

I have the Nikon D70 which I loved. It came with Sigma lenses which I think did a good job. I have to get it to the states for a cleaning as it does not matter which of three lenses I have on the pictures are smudged. When I bought the housing for this I had to buy a new Nikon lens which cost $$$. Booo.

I don't want to jinx myself, but I have not had a leak in either set up since I moved here 5 years ago. My mentors in Northern Cal taught to clean and grease between every roll of film and we were doing 3 to 5 dives a day and shot a roll of 36 on every dive. I really think that was over doing it and yes, we had lots of floods. Go figure?

I would love to have a regular get-together here. I suggested it a year or so ago (when I was giving Elbert hints on how to do Photo Shop - now look at him!) But what do I know? I'm only a cave woman.
Thanks Peter. I just went to Circuit City to see in hand the G10 and the 40D. Interesting that the G9 is still more expensive than the G10 on Amazon, and it's been that way since the day the G10 hit the market. And the 40D is almost the same price as the 50D. Think I read where the megapixel boom has subsided in that more are not necessarily better.

So maybe the G10 will be it. But for only $300 more I can get a 40D body. Course the lenses are as much as the camera.

Decisions, decisions.

Also, there is a proprietary Canon housing for the G9 and 10, only about $150, which makes it $1000 less than the Ikelite for those cameras. Same price as the Ikelite for the 40D/50D.

I still don't know what camera you and Ernie are using underwater if it isn't your expensive ones.

Scubaldy's are with the Nikon D70, thanks for that info, I will look at your images to see what a dslr produces.

Leaning towards the G10 now. If the images will come out as good as the 40d, I'll go that way.

Thanks everyone for the advice so far.
While I never intend to take my 40D, as in camera not bra size sadly, under water I am very happy with my Canon. I bought it through Wolf Camera here in Dallas. I got the insurance and while pricy have already got my money back on a repair. I bumped the 28-135mm IS lense and broke the focus ring. The insurance is good for everything but theft. Drop it in the sea, no problem, fish it out and send it in. Water proof housing leaks, no problem. Run over by a car, no problem. Dog tries to eat it, no problem.

http://www.wolfcamera.com/?gclid=CMn8zuHjk5cCFSAUagodJ380ow
Skippy - look at eBay to see what dealers are selling these cameras for. You don't have to buy via eBay, just treat it as a shop window.

From what I've read I'd take the 50D over the 40D if the price is similar. And of course the G9 should now be much cheaper than the G10, which it's possible to find for the mid-$400's.
Nancy, that's great advice, thanks. Fits my profile of breaking things. All my fly rods end up broken, so I always buy Sage rods with lifetime no-questions-asked repair. I wouldn't have thought I could get it for an expensive camera also. Circuit City wants $219 for the 3-year whatever happens we'll fix it plan. Now I realize that's a bargain.

Peter, I checked eBay, the prices are lower there. I've bought and sold on eBay for years, and because of the warranty issue and insurance protection offered by a brick and mortar store, I'm going to avoid the bay on this.

I've decided to go with the G9, since everything from the Ikelite case to the blue water filters to the 20mm external Ikelite wide angle lens are still available and price reduced on Amazon. Lots of optional stuff for the G9 out there, not so much for the G10 yet.

I'll play with this for a while, find out about this raw image capability, see how 12MP looks, then maybe go up.

But I think I've discovered how you take the excellent underwater images without using your good camera, Peter. Would it be something like this?

SEA&SEA DX-1G 10MP Digital Camera with 3x Optical zoom and Underwater Housing with YS-27 Lighting Package

Now I know what you meant by the term compact.

Maybe that's the way to go.



skippy.. congrats on retirement.. I am counting the days but I have just over two years to go yet. wink

With regard to the camera purchase at Circuit City, how much is the insurance worth if the store goes under (aren't they in bankruptcy protection)?

Good luck on your purchase, look foward to seeing pictures posted from you.

Gail cool
Many of the Circuit City stores here are closing.
The G9 is a good choice, tho' I think any accessories for it should also fit the G10.

I use two different u/w compact cameras, each in the manufacturer's housing - a Canon S500 and a Casio EX-Z55. Both from the 5mp era and way inferior to your forthcoming G9, but still capable of good results if you stay inside the design limitations (if you try to do things the camera isn't designed for you end up with rubbish). I'd like to get a G9/10 but finances are a bit tight right now..... I also want to get a Canon 16-35 lens for my 5D at c.$1600, a Canon 24-70 lens at similar price, plus a couple of flash guns at several hundred $ each, but they will also have to wait. Oh, and a carbon fiber tripod, and ..... The list goes on!

If in due course you do get a DSLR you'll find that the real cost isn't in the camera itself but in the lenses. Especially with a camera like the 5D, which shows the slightest flaw in a lens. I've already spent several thousand $ on lenses, and I only have three! Shows how important it is to choose the manufacturer and sensor size before you start buying lenses - jumping ship gets costly.
of the 4 lens i own, 3 are 15 years old! at the time they were nikons top-o-the-line. my D-100 uses the small sensor and i have no problem adjusting to it. it also is but a mere 6mp, and discontinued in '02.
i want to 'upgrade' , but my photos(and wallet) can't justify it.
Being with Nikon you can of course use lenses from way back. Canon took a complete change in direction in the '80's, when all of the previous "FD" lenses were discontinued and replaced by the incompatible "EF" series which they still use. Ironically there are adapters to allow the use of Canon FD lenses on a Nikon, but they can't be used on an EF Canon as the distances are wrong. My A1 was one of the last FD cameras they made and it was/is a superb camera, but the nine FD lenses I own are useless to me on my new EF Canon.

Having invested a fortune (over a few years, not all at once) in what turned out to be outdated technology but which nonetheless was still excellent, I was reluctant to ditch it all and go for new designs that could have turned out (but didn't to be a "flash in the pan".

One lens that I really liked was a 600mm "reflex" lens, ie. a mirror lens. That was Tamron or Sigma and had an exchangeable mount so would work on your Nikon, but will never work on my modern Canon. It wasn't even particularly expensive, so after I got my 5D I looked around for one. No-one seems any more to make reflex lenses, though I've not been able to discover a sound reason for that. On chat forums people say that digital cameras are more intolerant of lens imperfections than film cameras, and reflex lenses had too many inherent flaws to work on a digital. That may be true, but it sounds a bit like BS to me. Any views?

On your Nikon, there's nothing wrong with 6mp unless you want to blow things up really large. There's a lot more to camera performance than just MP. Judging by the hummingbird photos you posted a while back you have an excellent camera (and eye!). Nikon seem to be reining in their MP development at around 12, whereas Canon now even have compacts at 15, the new 5D is 22, and the next 1Ds is rumoured to have over 30. Who's right?
i don't know much if anything about reflex lens. never owned one and have read very little. most had a single 'fixed' apature right?
maybe for some reason thats what lead to there demise?
if only to justify the fact that i have no camera money right now,,i don't see the newest models showing many features that my old one already does. some faster sync speeds, some blazing frames per seconds, live view, and the full frame sensor, but the biggie for me is wireless flash! i could dig that!!
but alas,, i have to ride this horse till she croaks.
and i am using nikon capture nx for post. i like it for a few reasons. one is i just can't grasp photoshop. it is just toooooooo much for my beer soaked brain. capture does what i need very well. i don't have any problems with RAW conversions.
my problem is with storage. but that will be solved in 2 weeks as a friend is bringing me a 1 terrabyte hard drive!!!! lets see me fill THAT suckr up!!
Just make sure you have a good UPS to protect said hard drive. I've lost several HDs here to BEL, including one expensive firewire one on its first use in Belize. The power went off when I was using it, then came back on less than a second later with (probably) an immense voltage surge. Bye-bye hard drive.

I now only use self-powered USB drives which seem to have plateaued at 320 gb. Maybe anything larger would demand more power than USB can provide. So I have a couple of them, and may get more as the need arises. Combined with a laptop, which of course has its own in-built UPS, my hard drives are fully protected.

I also use 16gb USB flash drives, which cost me US$18 each.

My reflex lens had/has a fixed aperture of f8 so it's only suitable for hand-held use outdoors in daylight, not that hand-holding a 600mm lens is particularly easy. This is decades before anti-vibration technology.

All my early photography was with a Zeiss Contina, a very simple but high quality viewfinder camera with absolutely everything manual and no automatic advice. Nonetheless I got some pretty good results. I recall taking it to a "specialist" camera shop to have the focussing recalibrated as infinity no longer seemed to be at infinity, and that was the end of the camera. They gave it to the Saturday morning help to work on, and he totally destroyed it internally.

I also loved using a little Minox 35mm camera, which did have auto-exposure but nothing else. Oh, and a superb lens and very good shutter. That could also produce wonderful results (especially in low light) and did for several years until I was relieved of it by muggers in Johannesburg!

Since I first got the Minox, at around the same time I bought the A1, I've always had a good but bulky camera plus a pretty good pocketable one. If that was good enough for Patrick Lichfield (famous English photographer who was related to the Queen) then it worked for me. My pocket camera now is a Samsung Digimax L85, bought for just over $100, which produces results often indistinguishable from my 5D. Just a small difference in price though!

On my DSLR I'm moving more and more towards using primes rather than zooms. Although in theory a zoom should increase your creative capability I find it works in exactly the opposite way. Instead of studying the scene and positioning myself where I'd get the best shot, I tend to stay where I am and think "zoom". That may work for Mazda but it gets me into an automaton mood and kills creative thought. And of course, zooms are generally far slower than primes. I've gone back to keeping a standard 50mm lens for "walk-around", and I'm finding I'm getting better pictures. A lot depends whether a camera is an adjunct to other activities, or whether the purpose of going out is to take photographs. I take my SLR (and all my lenses) on trips whose sole purpose is to take photographs, of whatever may appear in front of me, whilst if I want to go out and do something and have a camera with me "just in case" then I just take a compact.
yes,, good points about BEL and the 'limited' potion of their name!
we do keep everything on a ups. i wish i could get one big huge one and put it right after the meter!
i too am using externals. i have 3-250s. two are redundant with photos and music, the 3rd is Mrs. Barns for business crap.
but when this particular buddy of mine offers up a 'deal', it is going to be a good one. we call him "Re-bate".
he is so good at sniffing out good deals, that allot of the time after he sends in whatever coupons are connected, he comes out money ahead!
so when he said he found some good, brand name drives and he would bring us one,, hell yea!
also he tossed in an internal card reader for the new computer.
said it will be around 100 bucks, including the reader.
even with all this inside, i will still be using the externals for more back up.
thanks for reminding me,, i should do a back up right now!

i also am in the prime is better way thinking. the next 2 lens on the list are also a 50 and some flavor of wide angle. for the last 15 years, my 'walking round' lens has been a 35-70 2.8. it has been the bread and butter lens the whole time. but now the small sensor effects it. bummer for the wider end!
could be good, or bad, have to see, but Mrs. Barn is wanting to upgrade from her canon S-5 to a dslr.(that's the good part). that means nikon and that she will be digging around in my lens cases.(this is the scary part!) but, when this happens, we will add on one of those 2 lens! or both!!
If there are any more HDs at that sort of price please bear me in mind. I do need another drive pretty soon.
If you folks are shopping for lenses and stuff now, there is an incredible eBay rebate deal going on in conjunction with MSN Live Search, 30% off a seller's buy it now price. The link below will get you started. This is not like the SB proponents' posts, I really don't have a horse in this race. Although, in Microsoft's case, I liked the product so much I bought the company!

30% eBay rebate with MSN Live Search
Are you sure this "30% rebate" isn't a scam?
I have the Canon 40D, I like it, although it is being repaired right now due to an error 99 (which means anything) The repair shop said it was probably the shutter which is weird because after breaking a shutter last year cleaning my Canon XT Rebel, I don't mess with anything internal anymore. Plus, I don't handle my equipment rough and keep it in the case when not in use. I guess it was justone of those things. There is a Canon authorized repair service in Merida Mexico also, FYI.
That's good to know, because the LCD screen on top of my 5D doesn't work properly.
Peter, it's a Microsoft site, and Microsoft is known for not scamming.

Wait a minute. I forgot about Vista.

OK, 1 scam.

Seriously, it was for real, and for months. It's at like 8% now, but likely to go back to 25-30 closer to Christmas. I made several purchases, rebate went into my paypal account instantly.

Thanks for the info on the repair shop, ccc.com

I bought the G9, but the prices of the 5D are plummeting with the mark II's debut, so I'm going to get one of those for my main out-of-the-water camera.
If you're thinking of a 5D, look up and follow http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=462416&page=348. It's a thread dedicated to the 5D, with most contributions by pros.
Thank you, Peter. That's a fun thread. And what great images. Well, I'm getting one, but I'm going to be patient and let prices dip some more. The person in that thread who claimed to have picked one up for $750, now that would be sweet.

I wouldn't mind a refurbished one at that price, as long as I knew for a fact that it was refurbished by Canon. I've learned a lot in a short period of time here, and as you say, it's the lenses that'll get you. Gonna need the L lenses I can see. Or rather can't see, I probably won't be able to tell a difference but it will be in the back of my mind if I don't have the lenses everyone says you need to make the 5D perform to it's best.
Just make sure you get EF and not EF-S. The latter is only suitable for cropped-sensor cameras, and will vignette appallingly on a FF camera. Some protrude backwards too much for FF and will damage the mirror assembly.
Thanks again, Peter. I have indeed wondered about the difference and was not at all clear on that.
OK Mr. Jones, I did the deed.

Because I will be on a sailboat a lot with this new camera, I decided not to go all out for a 5d now, plus the price is not dropping like I thought it would with the mark II arrival. Still $2000 for the body.

And boy were you spot on about the lenses. When I do upgrade, those L class lenses are gonna hurt the ol pocketbook.

Went with the Rebel xsi aka 450d. Reviews says it's the 40d but with the lighter plastic body instead of magnesium and 12Mp instead of 10, for a little more than half the price of the 40d. I handled all of them, the 40d is too big, xsi just right. Took a while deciding on the sole lens for now, went with the EF 28-135mm IS f/3.5-5.6, which will stay on for good with this camera.

For underwater and all-around use in a wet environment like the sailboat, I replaced my old Nikon p&s with a Canon SD770 IS 10Mp and proprietary Canon underwater case which I'll keep the camera in most of the time. Including underwater!

Thanks for the advice and info. I will be posting images in the near future.
Well done Skippy! I regret to say that I've also been foolish recently, having just bought a Canon G10 with housing!

If you go to POTN you'll see there's a long-running thread on the Tokina ATX 12-24 Pro DX zoom (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160701&page=20). Only suitable for cropped sensors, it's clearly a very impressive and superb value UWA lens and if I had a cropped sensor camera like yours I'd be buying one right now, for use quite often as my "walk-around" lens. Would complement the 28-135 very well.

If you come down here with the new Canon make sure to make contact, and you can try my 100-400L on your body, which of course would give an effective 160-640. And you can try the 24-105L as well, though that wouldn't be so impressive.
Peter, do you keep the UV filter on all the time as a protector? If so, do you remove it for imaging? It's just a regular Hoya filter, not an expesnive one with better glass. Seems like it could diminish image quality, but might be a hassle to take off and put back all the time between shots. I'm not concerned about UV, just protecting the lens.

I did also get the polarizing filter, which I will use, especially on the water. But I got the UV filter just to have something between the lens and the environment.
I do leave a filter on every lens all the time. On the 100-400 and the 50 it's a UV filter, on the 24-105 it varies between UV and circular polarizing. I do have other filters for indoors use, such as one for fluorescent light.

I feel very uncomfortable leaving a lens exposed to the elements, knowing how much greasy dirt & dust gets deposited. After a day's shooting I take off whatever filter I was using and wash it in fresh warm water and mild detergent. You'd be amazed how much muck comes off it.

Although there are several UWA zooms available for cropped sensors, there aren't many for FF. There is a Sigma that I've considered, but given the profile of the front element it can't take a filter, and I don't think it would survive long in this environment.

Some lenses are quite intolerant of filters, and you have to be careful only to use one recommended by the lens manufacturer. Otherwise you can get auto-focusing problems and some vignetting.
Didn't spot one nuance in your question. Only indoors in poor light do I use a lens with no filter fitted. Generally I use the filter that's already fitted to the lens, though occasionally I have to change it. I do always keep a lens cap on, to protect the lens both from impact & inadvertent touching, but also from the air which here is permanently greasy and salty.

Canon "L" lenses are hermetically sealed when a filter is fitted and they're either attached to a camera or have the back lens cap on. A pretty good reason for me to follow those basic instructions, especially when you see what can happen to unprotected glass down here.
More excellent advice, thanks. I am glad I can keep the filter on, except when I change to the circular polarizing.

One more thing, since you mention the greasy, salty air. Moist as well, obviously, and as I'm going to bring cameras, lens and all in zip-lock type freezer bags as well as the camera case, I was thinking about throwing dessicant packages in each bag. Do you use dessicant bags or those little canisters? Or is the air so moist it renders them useless? Again this would be in a freezer bag zipped closed most of the time.
Get Pelican Cases!!!
If I had your money, I would.

Hey, my birthday's coming up! "To stinky, I mean skippy, with love, jesse"

They are too bulky for this trip, but that might be the solution long-term. Of course, the case would cost more than the camera...
Another point: If you store you camera equipment in air conditioning you should "defrost" it before unpacking it, lest the warm wet air condense all over and in your cooler equipment.
I'm going to a camera show Sunday. Sighhhhhhhhhhhhh Another boat load of money probably. blush
There are other brands like Pelican at 1/3 of the price. If you're only concerned with keeping the gear away from the atmosphere when down here, and there's no problem at home, then you do pretty well with the cheap resealable plastic boxes you find in supermarkets for keeping food in in the fridge. If you look around you'll find some pretty big ones.

I do use dessicant cartridges here, but they go off incredibly quickly. A freshly charged one in the open inside my house is saturated within about half an hour. Something that works well is to wrap each item in soft cotton cloth, as that also absorbs a lot of moisture. I ordered a Pelican case look-alike, but in the meantime I found that if I zipped up my camera bag (a fabric backpack) immediately after accessing it, and put it both on and under freshly laundered tee shirts, then moisture doesn't seem to be a problem.

I wouldn't use just plastic bags/boxes as you can get condensation inside the plastic. Fabric is much better.

What Jesse says is most important here. A/C will destroy your gear - never keep it in an A/C environment, or if you do then warm it up very slowly (many hours) wrapped in cotton fabric that can breathe - ie. not in a plastic bag.

Another important thing that you've undoubtedly not considered. Your camera sensor will get dirty and you need a means of cleaning it. AFAIK there is only one company that makes the products that you will need. I strongly advise you to go to their website http://www.photosol.com/swabproduct.htm immediately, look up the products your camera needs and buy sufficient for at least ten sensor cleans. Also get the material you need to clean lenses, and get a Rocket Brush. You'll find yourself using this very early on down here!

When are you coming down? Scubaldy needs the equivalent for her Nikon D70 and she'd greatly appreciate it if you could order for her at the same time, and obviously bring it with you. She needs Sensor Swabs size 2 and fluid E2 for the sensor, plus Rocket Brush and lens cleaning materials, and I've just checked that you need exactly the same for your 450D.
Thank you Peter. Thank you jesse. Can't do it, Peter, I won't be in SP or even on AC.
Peter, this is my first dslr, so I have no idea how many images I can expect to get on a 4 gig card. Any guesses? I could get about 500 on a 2 gig card with my old Nikon 4200 4mp point and shoot, but I bet there's lots more info associated with these, yes? I ask because I may need to keep filling the card during the trip and download when I'm back.
From Canon's website for the XSi:-

(1) Large/Fine : Approx. 4.3MB (4272 x 2848 pixels)
(2) Large/Normal : Approx. 2.2MB (4272 x 2848 pixels)
(3) Medium/Fine : Approx. 2.5MB (3088 x 2056 pixels)
(4) Medium/Normal: Approx. 1.3MB (3088 x 2056 pixels)
(5) Small/Fine : Approx. 1.6MB (2256 x 1504 pixels)
(6) Small/Normal : Approx. 0.8MB (2256 x 1504 pixels)
(7) RAW : Approx. 15.3 MB (4272 x 2848 pixels)
Exact file sizes depend on the subject, ISO speed, Picture Style, etc.

So it all depends what format you take your pictures in. I use RAW + Large/Fine for everything, so I would use around 20mb for each image. Divide that into 4000mb and you get around 200 images. Actually a bit less as a 4gb card doesn't give you 4gb. I use 8gb cards in my 5D and I've never had a problem. I always have with me the one in use plus an empty spare. I also always have the battery in the camera plus a fully charged spare.

The speed of card matters if you're going to use the "spray and pray" system. More of an issue for you as your maximum picture rate is a bit higher than mine. I rarely take anything other than single shots and I find the Adata cards I use to be perfectly adequate, but it is possible for the camera to generate data faster than the card can accept it, or faster than the electronics in the camera can write it. Your camera's Digic III processor is a bit faster than my Digic II.

I know people who restrict the resolution to get more pictures. IMO totally pointless - they might as well just take out a compact to begin with. Murphy's Law states than all your images will be crap, except the ones you took at reduced quality!
Originally Posted by Nancy1340
I'm going to a camera show Sunday

Do you know what you want to get, Nancy?
Originally Posted by Peter Jones
Scubaldy needs the equivalent for her Nikon D70 and she'd greatly appreciate it if you could order for her at the same time, and obviously bring it with you. She needs Sensor Swabs size 2 and fluid E2 for the sensor, plus Rocket Brush and lens cleaning materials, and I've just checked that you need exactly the same for your 450D.




Peter, do you think they will these products at a large Camera show? If the weather gives us a break and we can still go to the show I will find room in my bags for Scubaldy's stuff.

BTW, not FexEx or UPS today yet. The weather is bad here and lots of trucks are having a hard time getting around. The streets are icy and it's been as low as 20 here.
You were just ahead of me, Nancy! Yes, I think there's a good chance these things will be available, and I'm sure she would REALLY appreciate it if you were able to get them. If they're not available at the show the company does a good mail-order service.

I'm not surprised about the non-deliveries. I will be concerned if they still haven't arrived by the end of next week.

So, what're you gonna get, then? A compact or a real camera smile
Hey!!! LOL

I have a Canon 40D that is less than 6 months old. Still don't know what the heck I'm doing. But I'm trying.
Lenses are Canon:
EFS 18-55mm (stabilizer)
Macro EF-S 60mm
28-135mm (stabilizer) ultrasonic
70-300mm (stabilizer) ultrasonic

I just want to see what they have to offer at the show. I want to get into macro photography. I wish there was a good class on using a digital camera. I have two books on it but it's all so foreign to me. Definitely not a natural at this. Though I do have a good eye for shots now and then. I just don't know how to get them. But like a blind squirrel finding a nut now and then I get a pretty good shot now and then.

Also bought a Sealife ECOShot for the water.

When we were in Ireland several years ago FTWB got me a Olympus C750. Tiny screen but my first digital.

My cousin belongs to a camera club and had been trying to get me to get a "real" camera for our trips to Colorado every fall. I did my research and looked around. I liked the Canon over the Nikon. Just a little easier I thought to use. But heaver.

I have a 35 year old Pentex 110 with auto wind, external flash, and two or three lenses with filters. I'm thinking about selling it. Though it's fun to use. It's tiny.
For your 40D, check out the Tokina ATX 12-24 Pro DX zoom that i mentioned above. It gets really good reviews, and if you look at the thread on POTN you can see the results for yourself. I'm not really into macro, but on POTN I'm sure you'll find lots of good advice and info.

Don't forget you can convert many lenses into macro lenses by adding extension tubes. Actually, now I come to think of it I'd love some extension tubes for my 5D (with 100-400L and 24-105L, as well as the nifty fifty).

If you see any special offers on the Canon 16-35 II I would be SERIOUSLY interested. The widest I can use on a FF camera is about 16 and that lens is supposed to be absolutely superb. I currently don't have anything wider than 24. In fact, a Mk1 at a good price would be very attractive as well.
OKaaaaaay? You'll have to give me links to see exactly what your are talking about. I would have no idea what you consider a "good price" on any of the above mentioned items.

By "nifty fifty" you mean the standard 50mm lense? Cousin Sandy says that's a go to-do it all lense.

And what is POTN? I'm asuming it's like www.pixalo.com.

And no, I'm not ahead of you, your just too much the proper English gentleman to ask me to bring "one more" thing down. LOL
POTN is http://photography-on-the.net/forum/ , a website/forum dedicated to all things Canon and frequented by many pro photographers. If you search you may very well find answers to your questions, but if you don't and post a question you'll likely get prompt and authoritative replies. You'll have to join first, but it's free.

"Nifty fifty" is the basic f1.8 50mm lens, EF of course in this case.

What is a good price of course depends on what it is you're buying. New price for the MkII 16-35 is approaching $1400, so I regard a very good price as say $1100 for new or maybe $650 for used, depending on condition of course. I'm not really being serious about that lens as although I'd really like one, and in fact will get one at some point, it's a purchase I'd have to make for myself. If you saw some cheap extension tubes then that's different!

A 50mm gives the traditional standard field of view on a FF digital camera, or a 35mm film camera. To get the same field of view on a Canon cropped sensor camera like the 40D you need an 80mm.

I can't find the POTN thread on the Tokina 12-24 that I was looking for, but here http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=631427&highlight=Tokina+12-24 is one for sale.
Peter, thank for the addy. I already have it in my bookmarks but haven't really read it much until you reminded me about it. I like it but really like Pixalo.com a little better. Maybe just because I have been going there longer and they have a really nice place to post photos and even challenges.
I also use Pixalo, but they do completely different jobs. The discussion forum with many pro's contributing is what POTN is all about.
I am finding myself using it more and more. Very informative.
Which one?
The Canon site. It's just getting to know the people there like I do the people at Pixalo. I have had great results with asking for help at Pixalo. There are pro's there also.

Everybody at Pixalo has been most helpful.

I do like the "Fortnightly Challange" at Pixalo. I have entered a couple of my photos there. Do a search on my name and you will find them. Nothing to impress someone with your experence but I have gotten some nice feed back.

Originally Posted by Nancy1340
Nothing to impress someone with your experience

If only that were true! The photographic whiz kids around here are led by Barnacle with Elbert a close second. I'm afraid I'm not on the rostrum.
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