AmbergrisCaye.com Home
Posted By: SP Daily South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 12:46 AM
http://www.sanpedrosun.net/08-211.html
Posted By: CB Belize Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:34 AM
sad sad sad.... clearing of mangroves, how could these people not see the environmental effects of this???
Posted By: SP Daily Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:45 AM
If no mangrove had ever been removed none of us would be living here...so its a matter of "Me First"..then " NIMBY".
Posted By: bywarren Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:53 AM
Not true. Most of the building on AC was done on solid ground prior to land becoming so valuable that the cutting of mangrove, dredging and filling became prevolent.
Posted By: SP Daily Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:57 AM
Like San Pablo, DFC, San Pedrito, Boca Del Rio, San Juan, San Mateo...etc.
Oh, and how many of the high-end beach-front resorts could survive if the original mangroves were blocking their view of the reef?
Posted By: CB Belize Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:58 AM
nope these days its a matter of how can i balance environmental protection with "substantial development" ....

quick question :so if i cut 10 miles of mangroves down 50 years ago when there was not any environmental concern/ consequences, i should then be able to cut another 10 miles down today with that same mindset/thinking????
Posted By: sweetjane Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 02:13 AM
many things in this life are often looked at as "well, we've done it in the past, even tho it's wrong...we might as well keep doing it since we've already set a precedence of doing a bad thing before we knew it was bad."

in my humble experience of living and making many mistakes, i find that the best course of action tends to be to look at our mistakes, adjust accordingly, and do things right moving forward.
Posted By: sweetjane Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 02:15 AM
hey!! you edited that to say the same thing i did at the same time i was saying it!! wink
Posted By: CB Belize Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 02:19 AM
maybe were special.....
Posted By: Chloe Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 03:10 AM
Special for sure.
Posted By: SimonB Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:42 PM
CH7 News:

GOB Brakes South Beach Project
posted (May 22, 2008)

And while the Lands Department dominated discussion at today's event, the Ministry of Natural Resources has many hot button departments including the Departments of the Environment and Geology and Petroleum. And right now, San Pedranos are asking Environment for answers about a mega development that's planned for the southern end of the island. It's sensitive because the development will sit adjacent to the Hol Chan Marine Reserve - one of the most treasured dive spots in the world. Today, Martin Allegria of the Department of the Environment explained that work on the mage project did start but they have issued a stop order.

Martin Allegria, Department of Environment
"South Beach, it's a project that we became aware of during the past administration. It is a it's a mega project as we refer to it, one of many that has surfaced during the past five years or so. And when it is a mega project in an ecologically sensitive area, it demands more careful consideration in terms of approval for development. South Beach Corporation Limited in that case in point. The extreme south of Ambergris Caye, bordering the marine reserve, Hol Chan. It comprises about 780 acres of development, land and sea bed, marinas, casinos, hotels, etc. etc.

We came to know about the proposals based on a conceptual master plan of the components and of the location. Back then in late last year we reviewed and made determination after consulting with key agencies that the environmental impact assessment report would be required for this development. A month or a few weeks before elections, the gentleman got the license for a casino.

The issue here is that the casino license has a clause which says that he has to construct within one year a 50 room hotel minimum. That sets an issue whereby within one year you need this environmental impact assessment process in itself for these types of mega projects. To make a story short, that has been ignored. When the new administration came in we started to negotiate now seriously about conducting the EIA."

The terms of reference for this are at a draft stage - but development is going ahead and work has commenced.

Martin Allegria,
"We were aware or became aware increasingly so within the last month or three weeks about construction activity that has already started on this project, or at least a portion thereof, the casino portion within even starting the EIA or the environmental screening process. So hence last week Thursday or so I think the Minister asked and we, all heads of departments went out there, we went out there to speak to the developer to let him know and advise him on the way forward. At that meeting we basically advised him to cease and desist on the construction activities which he said he was going to do. Yet we heard two days ago that he started and the weekend he was constructing again with heavy equipment. So those are the type of things we have to deal with. To the extent that yesterday we sent an enforcement notice first. We try to bring them in and negotiate. Legal issue is the final option available. So we issued an enforcement notice, we prepared it yesterday and as I speak I think it has been served to cease and desist on all developmental activities until the process is dealt with, the EIA."

But the developers claim they have executive clearance.

Jules Vasquez,
They have sent out a release to investors saying that they have the support of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Tourism, the Mayoress of San Pedro, the Area Representative, and other Ministers and Cabinet members to ensure the success of South Beach. This is in a public statement that's being widely circulated on the internet. Would the Deputy Prime Minister be able to say if he supports the project?

Hon. Gaspar Vegas, Deputy Prime Minister
"Jules, after consultation with the technical people, if they advise me it is a good project then I will support it."

Jules Vasquez,
So at this point your support has not been declared?

Hon. Gaspar Vegas,
"Never."

But with the scale and ambition of this development, we'll venture that Vega's tight disclaimer is not the last we've heard of South Beach, San Pedro.

You can see the plans for the project at South Beach Belize.com.

Posted By: sweetjane Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 01:57 PM
thanks for the updated info, simon.

one warning has been sent. send 2 more, then FINE THEM BIG TIME!!! we do property management for a living, and our experience is most people do not comply (even with multiple warnings) unless a consequence is issued. if we, as common citizens go against specific government orders, we have a huge consequence. don't developers?

Posted By: Anonymous Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 02:19 PM
If my experiences in Britain are anything to go by, developers carry far more sway than "ordinary" people and often get retrospective approval for developments that adversely impact other people and were built in full knowledge that what they were doing was illegal. I have one case in mind though it's typical of many - once neighbours objected and a hearing date was set, more workers were immediately drafted in and building proceeded apace 24/7, so when the hearing happened (only a few days later) the developer claimed "the building was almost complete and it would be inequitable to order its demolition".
Posted By: bywarren Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 02:35 PM
In the past an "EIA" amounted to a briefcase full of money given to the right minister. Let's see what it is in this new administration. It is very difficult for me to believe that a project of this magnitude could be justified based on environmental issues given the extent of infrastucture available at this time.
Posted By: collyk Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 03:15 PM
I would say that someone has been listening.


Channel 7 News

GOB Brakes South Beach Project
And while the Lands Department dominated discussion at today's event, the Ministry of Natural Resources has many hot button departments including the Departments of the Environment and Geology and Petroleum. And right now, San Pedranos are asking Environment for answers about a mega development that's planned for the southern end of the island. It's sensitive because the development will sit adjacent to the Hol Chan Marine Reserve - one of the most treasured dive spots in the world. Today, Martin Allegria of the Department of the Environment explained that work on the mage project did start but they have issued a stop order.

Martin Allegria, Department of Environment
"South Beach, it's a project that we became aware of during the past administration. It is a it's a mega project as we refer to it, one of many that has surfaced during the past five years or so. And when it is a mega project in an ecologically sensitive area, it demands more careful consideration in terms of approval for development. South Beach Corporation Limited in that case in point. The extreme south of Ambergris Caye, bordering the marine reserve, Hol Chan. It comprises about 780 acres of development, land and sea bed, marinas, casinos, hotels, etc. etc.

We came to know about the proposals based on a conceptual master plan of the components and of the location. Back then in late last year we reviewed and made determination after consulting with key agencies that the environmental impact assessment report would be required for this development. A month or a few weeks before elections, the gentleman got the license for a casino.

The issue here is that the casino license has a clause which says that he has to construct within one year a 50 room hotel minimum. That sets an issue whereby within one year you need this environmental impact assessment process in itself for these types of mega projects. To make a story short, that has been ignored. When the new administration came in we started to negotiate now seriously about conducting the EIA."

The terms of reference for this are at a draft stage - but development is going ahead and work has commenced.

Martin Allegria,
"We were aware or became aware increasingly so within the last month or three weeks about construction activity that has already started on this project, or at least a portion thereof, the casino portion within even starting the EIA or the environmental screening process. So hence last week Thursday or so I think the Minister asked and we, all heads of departments went out there, we went out there to speak to the developer to let him know and advise him on the way forward. At that meeting we basically advised him to cease and desist on the construction activities which he said he was going to do. Yet we heard two days ago that he started and the weekend he was constructing again with heavy equipment. So those are the type of things we have to deal with. To the extent that yesterday we sent an enforcement notice first. We try to bring them in and negotiate. Legal issue is the final option available. So we issued an enforcement notice, we prepared it yesterday and as I speak I think it has been served to cease and desist on all developmental activities until the process is dealt with, the EIA."

But the developers claim they have executive clearance.

Jules Vasquez,
They have sent out a release to investors saying that they have the support of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Tourism, the Mayoress of San Pedro, the Area Representative, and other Ministers and Cabinet members to ensure the success of South Beach. This is in a public statement that's being widely circulated on the internet. Would the Deputy Prime Minister be able to say if he supports the project?

Hon. Gaspar Vegas, Deputy Prime Minister
"Jules, after consultation with the technical people, if they advise me it is a good project then I will support it."

Jules Vasquez,
So at this point your support has not been declared?

Hon. Gaspar Vegas,
"Never."

But with the scale and ambition of this development, we'll venture that Vega's tight disclaimer is not the last we've heard of South Beach, San Pedro.

You can see the plans for the project at South Beach Belize.com.

Posted By: CB Belize Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 03:25 PM
just curious.....anyone know what they (south beach) plan on doing with the sacred grounds that are down there???
Posted By: bywarren Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 03:33 PM
Does anyone know what objective factors go into determining the findings of an EIA? Are there defined guidelines that are to be followed, or is it totally subjective? And if there are objective guidelines, were those developed by someone knowledgeable of invirornmental issues?

Also, are the people in charge of doing the EIA new with each administration or are people kept in place that are trained to make these determinations?
Posted By: SimonB Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 03:39 PM
There's one here that gives a good idea of what is supposed to go into one:

http://www.doe.gov.bz/documents/EIA/EIA_AmbergrisCaye.pdf
Posted By: bywarren Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 04:10 PM
WOW, thanks, Simon. I guess I got more than what I ask for.
Posted By: SimonB Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 04:48 PM
Yeah, it's pretty detailed, 300+ pages, pretty pictures and all. Actually makes interesting reading.
Posted By: suecate Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 04:50 PM
page 116 paragraph 2-69 - 2-71 relating to the endangered and vulnerable species is very interesting. I hope they take care and if not what are the consequences?
Posted By: bywarren Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 04:55 PM
Got to admit I have been giving it a fairly quick reading - been doing that the last 30 min.- but still appears to me to be subjective. Looks like a determination could be made either way base on whether you are pro development or not.
Posted By: suecate Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 04:58 PM
The bigger picture is aren't endangered species and their habitats protected worldwide?
Posted By: SimonB Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 05:01 PM
True, what the guidelines are once it's submitted I have no idea.
Posted By: azbob Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/23/08 08:09 PM
suecate, the short answer to your question is:no. The longer answer is:
Endangered species are protected by more than just the Endangered Species Act. Local laws, enforced by state governments and state Departments of Natural resources protect species in different states of the United States. Groups of species are protected by specific acts such as the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Many foreign countries have laws protecting their endangered species. Endangered species are protected on international levels as well. For example, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) is an agreement between150 countries worldwide. Endangered species are listed under one of two appendices of CITES (pronounced sigh-tees). If a species is listed under Appendix I, the member countries have agreed not to trade (buy and sell) that species commercially. If a species is listed under Appendix II, the member countries have agreed to trade that species commercially only if it does not endanger the survival of the species.
Posted By: elbert Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/26/08 02:37 PM
In a true democratic society the news papers role is a watch dog of the public. I applaud The San Pedro Sun for its investigative journalism and providing a service to San Pedro.
This week's coverage of the South Beach issue and the expansion of the Hol Chan Marine Reserve are exceptional Journalism.
Posted By: SP Daily Re: South Beach or Hol Chan? - 05/26/08 02:44 PM
Amen!
© Ambergris Caye Belize Message Board