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Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142241
04/03/02 05:44 PM
04/03/02 05:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 208
Bettendorf, Iowa USA
BankerWoman Offline
BankerWoman  Offline
bywarren: When you and your "friends" tool off to that big happy house, would you leave me your share of the Whitey's??? (Sorry folks - inside Quad-Citier joke...)

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142242
04/03/02 05:50 PM
04/03/02 05:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,714
Illinois, Arkansas,South Dakot...
bywarren Offline
bywarren  Offline
You got it Bankerwoman. Look me up when you get here.

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142243
04/03/02 07:37 PM
04/03/02 07:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14
Bob Goodman Offline
Bob Goodman  Offline
My name is Bob Goodman. I join the families of the victims and Cyber Diver in demanding a full investigation of the Wave Dancer deaths. I urge people to support the families of the Wave Dancer victims by going to and sending the letter. I do so because one of my friends died on the Wave Dancer and deserves better than a cover up of what may or may not be criminal negligence. I don't know why "seashell" is filled with so much hate and anger, but I do know that she is wrong to try to disparage me and Cyber Diver and everyone else who wants justice for the families who lost their loved ones.

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142244
04/03/02 08:34 PM
04/03/02 08:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,880
seashell Offline
seashell  Offline
bywarren, by gosh you are right. My mistake and my apologies!

By the way, I don't despise Cyberdiver, but you could certainly say I hold them in distain. And as to my previous remarks in this regard, feel free to cruise some other dive boards and see what you see other divers saying. You might also make note that Cyberdiver (also known here as tomjoad & Bob Goodman and to me also known as Carla and Phatcat) appears to hold *all* of the other dive mags in distain.

I also don't dispise the entity known here as tomjoad or Bob Goodman. That said however, their alterego Carla created complete and utter havoc on another site and had to be shut down by its ISP. This causes me concern for our wonderful board here and I felt it incumbent upon me to give fair warning.

I'll say no more about the foregoing. And we shall see what we shall see.

I will also emphasize that none of my remarks concerning the entity known here as tomjoad and Bob Goodman and/or Cyberdiver have *any* relationship to my feelings about the tragedy.

Make no mistake and please don't confuse the two very separate issues. I feel very deeply for the loss of our friends and the suffering of their families and have read a number of their stories in numerous places over the past months (and if I recall correctly even here on this board).

[This message has been edited by seashell (edited 04-03-2002).]

A fish and a bird can fall in love, but where will they build their nest?

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142245
04/03/02 11:09 PM
04/03/02 11:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5
manateewatch Offline
manateewatch  Offline
While I would defend Bob Goodman's right to make his point on this message board I would never sign the letter in its present form.

It would be better if the letter merely made the point that people who sign it are concerned that this wholly avoidable incident should not be swept under the carpet.

Boycotting travel to a whole country because of one incident is silly, Bob Goodman.

And Seashell, you are starting to sound like YOU are the crazy message board person. Could you please tone it down a bit for us gentle manatees?

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142246
04/03/02 11:47 PM
04/03/02 11:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3
tomjoad Offline OP
tomjoad  Offline OP
HYpocritical seashell, to say the least.

You think CyberDiver is being unfair by pointing blame at Peter Hughes before "all the facts are in", right?

Then why are you justified in making accusations on no basis whatsoever - other than your own unsupported suspicions?

FYI I never heard of "Bob Goodman" until he posted on this thread, have no idea of who "Carla" might be ( she is not even involved in this thread), and I have no connnection whatsoever with CyberDiver.

So you are running off at the mouth with a series of "guilty until proven innocent" tirades, and are 0 for three.

Why the double standard?

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142247
04/04/02 12:28 AM
04/04/02 12:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2
San Pedro, Belize
MyBelize Offline
MyBelize  Offline
seashell should shut up & stop insulting everythings and everybodies she doesn't like--she's not adding inteligence here. Shes making me think why so many belizeans are going sour about the forieners always telling us what's best for belize. many belizeans could support this boycott to stop foreiners killing belizeans. And tom joad is not bob goodman--anybody understands that and cyberdiver is not national inquriey. I checked--here is the list I got right from the cyberdiver's news pages. its mostly serious talking about the ecologies, safety and dive gear plus some opinions--I like it so far as what I'm reading--but everyone should decide by checking cyberdiver--not listen to broken seashells

sorry because I forgot the list--it's these news

AUSTRALIA - Ecologists back periodic closure of Great Barrier Reef

BELIZE - Subaquatics upgrades hyperbaric chamber facilities

AUSTRALIA - Great white shock: SeaChange's electronic shark repellant

USA - MSG targets marine mammal issues in letter to NOAA

PALAU - The Road to Ruin: US, Japanese developers zero in on Palau

USA - Is human waste killing Florida's manatees, dolphins, whales?

USA - Assault of the Killer Seaweed - California Battles Back

AUSTRALIA - New diagnosis for bends could save lives, money

USA - Marine scientists call for strict bottom trawling regulations

USA - NOAA cracks down on llegal fishers in Florida's Tortugas reserve

CDNN ACT NOW - Demand accountability for the Wave Dancer deaths

CDNN INTERVIEW - Tom Stark on the Wave Dancer deaths

USA - Shark attacks snorkerler near illegal Florida shark feeding dive site

NEW ZEALAND - Major fish poaching ring busted

FRANCE - United Nations campaign targets dive tourism, fish feeding damage to coral reefs

OPINION - Paradise Screwed: Spiegel Grove and the Florida Keys

USA - Human harassment threatens marine mammals

USA - New study pinpoints coral reef conservation hotspots

USA - PADI sues Diverlink, Eddie Rhodes for libel

PHILIPPINES - Poachers busted at Tubbataha World Heritage Site

COSTA RICA - Shark poachers busted, boat seized, captain jailed

GALAPAGOS - Tourism threatens Galapagos Islands

USA - Environmentalists sue NOAA, NMFS over shark fishing

KENYA - Marine life dying en masse: "Red Tide" likely culprit

BONAIRE - Bon Bini dive boat sinks, tragedy narrowly averted

USA - DEMA's legal challenge to shark feeding suffers another setback

GALAPAGOS - Divers film rare albino shark

MARSHALL ISLANDS - Research diver finds WWII B-25D Mitchell bomber in Mili Lagoon

THAILAND - Huge oil slick under control

HAWAII - Aquaculture breakthrough could help save reef fishes

HAWAII - Tourism crashes, $1 billion decline worst in state's history

BAHAMAS - Shark attack victim blames Our Lucaya, Unexso

INDIA - Vast sunken city found off India: Experts stunned

ANTARCTICA - Wiser eyes: Scientists let Weddell seals "do the walkin"

AUSTRALIA - Who really killed Bluey, Australia's super-star grouper?

CDNN ACT NOW - Ban shark feeding in Hawaii

USA - DAN to Skin Diver: Get that slut off my magazine!

HAWAII - State officials moves to ban shark feeding

USA - Is El Nino coming back?

USA - DEMA trade show group announces new BOD

OPINION - The sound of silence: NAUI kills environmental report

USA - Virgin birth of bonnethead shark baffles scientists

OPINION - A Tale of Two Aggressors: The Hype and the Reality

USA - Did fish feeding cause recent shark, grouper attacks?

USA - It's official - shark feeding now illegal in Florida


[This message has been edited by MyBelize (edited 04-03-2002).]

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142248
04/04/02 04:32 AM
04/04/02 04:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 713
Fremont, CA, USA
susangg Offline
susangg  Offline
The behavior of the Hughes Corporation and its overpaid (and under-trained) "captains" was inexcusably negligent, bordering on criminal negligence. Especially abhorrent was the pressure placed upon employees to continue into the hurricane or be fired.
A campaign calling for divers to boycott the Hughes fleet is certainly appropriate.

However, Cyberdiver is way out of line asking people to boycott the country of Belize.

The people of Belize are not responsible for this tragedy. They had no say in the matter. In fact, numerous Belizeans urged the captains of the two boats (one of which was the Hughes Wave Dancer) to bring their passengers to safety and repeatedly offered them shelter. The Belize media has publicized the true facts and has debunked the lies and lame excuses offered by Hughes Corp.

So, why is Cyberdiver calling for a campaign against the people of Belize, rather than against the Hughes Corporation? What did the tourism operators in Belize do to deserve such punishment? Why not boycott Hughes and encourage people to come to Belize and go diving with local operators?

A boycott is a powerful weapon, but should not be used mindlessly. Anyone who knows anything about Belize (and if you are going to institute a boycott, you should make it your business to learn) knows that licenses to operate businesses are issued or not issued based upon who is demonstrating proper "gratitude" towards the government honchos with the power to issue them, which has nothing to do with safe practices or the lack thereof, nor with the opinion of the people in the community. The tourism community has no power to impact what the government does, any more than they have the power to stop the government from granting monopolies or making gifts of public funds to its "grateful" friends.

And why single out Belize? What about all the other countries who have continued to allow Hughes to operate, although they know that the company allows greed to overrule safety concerns?

CyberDiver does the cause of safety no good by calling for a boycott of Belize tourism, and is alienating the very people who should be supporting them: the diving and tourism community in Belize.

Susan Guberman-Garcia, Attorney at Law. Phone: 510-792-2639
Fax/Voicemail:: 510-405-2016 Email: [email protected]
Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142249
04/04/02 09:26 AM
04/04/02 09:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,976
bedford tx usa
rickcheri Offline
rickcheri  Offline
So many "judgements" of these people and their you think he made his choices because he wanted to die???? Maybe he acted in the way he "felt" was best.....but never thought the end result would lead to these consequences??? Have you never made a choice where the outcome was most unpleasant???? The people who were lost in "Keith"....they could have lived, lots of people did, but their choices had bad outcomes!! You NEVER know what a hurricane might do!!! ESPECIALLY in these more recent times when they can turn on the weather forecasters info, in mere minutes! People make it sound like he did this on purpose!!! It was a tragic accident where the consequences were death..I am very sorry for your losses and send you strenght and the ability to forgive what cannot be changed!! C......P.S. Nobody needs to shut up...opinions are just that!!

Re: Support the Wave Dancer victims #142250
04/04/02 12:14 PM
04/04/02 12:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,714
Illinois, Arkansas,South Dakot...
bywarren Offline
bywarren  Offline
It concerns me that so many people are willing to call this an accident and leave it there. An accident is when unitentional or unintended acts cause injury or death. If it were intended, the captain would be guilty of murder. It is reasonable to assume that he did not intend that. That said, a captain is resposible for the safety of his passangers and crew and when his decisions fail in that responsibilty his actions must be scrutinized to see if they were just bad decisions, irresponsible decisions, negeligent decision or criminaly negeligent decisions. Being a pilot, I offer this analogy. If I fly an airplane into a storm and crash, there would be an investigation. The outcome would be that the accident was caused by pilot error. My actions were the contributing factors that allowed the accident to happen. My actions would then be analized to determin if I should have known better and under what circumstances I could have acted to prevent the crash. If it were determined that I had the knowledge and ability to have made decisions that would have prevented the crash, then I would be held responsible. I could not get by just blaming it on the storm. Just like a captain of a ship, I was trained to avoid accidents and am required to do so. As far as Belize, where is the Belize Tourism Board and where are the other responsible people involved in tourism? I am not hearing much in the line of calling for a full investigation and scrutinizing of Peter Hughes operations before allowing him back in Belize. My questions to those are, are you only interested in getting as many tourist to Belize as possible? Or, are you interested in seeing that the tourist you attract here are treated in safe and responsible ways? To me your silence or your willingness to just say accidents happen, is concerning. The Belize Goverment should be acting more responsibly than they appear to. And those who's livelyhood and responsibility is the tourist should be outspoken on this. There would be less of call for consumer actions against you if you did so. Again, I think that would be in the long term best interest for Belize, it's people and the tourism industry.
PS: For you people who are trying to dismiss this by saying "innocent until proven guilty", you are totally off base. Innocent until proven guilty refers to someone charged with a crime. There has been no criminal charges as yet. What is important now is the investigation to determine if there are criminal or negligent actions and the importance of all in cooperating with that. My question is, where is the captain and what is his cooperation in this?

[This message has been edited by bywarren (edited 04-04-2002).]

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