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Joined: Jul 2006
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Capt. Jeff
I hope you mean it, because I'll take you up on it. I try not to post to much but I do keep up on the board. I pay particular attention to you and several others when you do post. Keep up the good work. I don't try to be mean but in getting ready to go to Abreojos, Mexico, fishing for 10 days I just dropped and broke a new bottle of Rum. We'll be down in March for 30 days. Thanks for the kind words.

Joined: Jan 2005
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Americans cheer as innocent Iraqi's are slain everyday.

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for Rykat: Goodwill at the South Summit
"It's too soon to reach any conclusions, but I hope the respect and cordiality that have existed so far, will continue in all the coming sessions of this summit (of the Non-Aligned Movement, NAM)," said Dexter Rose, ambassador of the Republic of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines in Havana.
The diplomat also said "there have been some good speeches, especially the ones about UN democratization, one of the burning issues these days."
Rose highlighted Cuba as an example for the Third World "for the solidarity and collaboration provided to our countries. I am a product of that collaboration. I was educated here [in Cuba]" he pointed out.

Joined: Feb 2006
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I'd like to see an example of any decent American cheering for the death of innocent civilians, anywhere. Get real. There are numerous examples of people cheering at the death of innocent Americans. What BS.


I've already told you more than I know.
Joined: Oct 2004
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Under Da Water...That's the worst post I have ever seen. Very thoughtless. Do you think Americans are sick of the war just because of the cost and American lives lost?
:rolleyes:

Joined: Jan 2005
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Look at any of Bush's speeches. He talks, people cheer. How does that look to people watching the TV in the Middle East.
If you support Bush and his kabal, you are supporting the death of innocent people. You can't support one aspect of the war, and disregard another. Its all or none, just like Bush said.

Joined: Oct 2000
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RE: Coolbumming's analogy with respect to individuals (not always) serving as an accurate representation for a group at large:

Leaving religion and nationality out of it one can perhaps whittle it down even more and speculate "Geez, maybe all of the Bin Ladens are really not bad, perhaps it's just that bad apple misunderstood son Osama...?" I mean the Bush family has been friends and business associates with the Bin Ladens for YEARS, so how bad can they be? Shafiq bin Laden was together with George Sr at the Ritz Carlton in DC Sept 10th/the morning of the 11th 2001 at a meeting for the Carlye Group (what a coincidence, eh.) And George W's good buddy James Bath, well heck, he was in charge of all of the Bin Laden holdings in TX. Maybe it's just a matter of finding one's self... I mean it took a good while for George W to get his act together... there were his failures drilling for oil as head of Arbusto... and zikes, trading Sammy Sosa sure turned out to be a mistake!!! But now, as the well spoken leader and commander in chief of the US, he's well... uh..... well, perhaps he and Osama both still need a bit of work. So maybe it's best to not look at this whole mess as a "war on terrorism" or "war" at all... A "complicated family quarrel" has a much more civilized tone, don't ya think???

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Quote
Originally posted by PalapaBob:
I'd like to see an example of any decent American cheering for the death of innocent civilians, anywhere. Get real. There are numerous examples of people cheering at the death of innocent Americans. What BS.
I'd like to see an example of any decent Muslim or Arab cheering for the death of innocent civilians, anywhere. Get real.

Decency has absolutely nothing to do with race or religion. It's all about the individual.

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Extract from FAITH AND FREEDOM
By Jimmy Carter

A basic question to be asked is, "Has the Iraqi war reduced the threat of terrorism?" Unfortunately, the answer is "No". Not only have we lost the almost unanimous sympathy and support that was offered to us throughout the world after the attack of 9/11, but there is direct evidence that the Iraqi war has actually increased the terrorist threat. In testimony before the Congress, CIA Director Porter Goss stated, "Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-U.s. jihadists [holy warriors].... These jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced and focus on acts of terrorism." He added that the war "has become a cause for extremists."

To corroborate his opinion, the U.S. National Counterterrorism Center reported that the number of serious international terrorist incidents more than tripled in 2004. "Significant" attacks grew to more than 650, up from the previous record of about 175 in 2003. Terrorist incidents in Iraq also dramatically increased, from 22 attacks to 198, or nine times the previous year's total - after the U.S. handover of political authority to an interim Iraqi government. It is obvious that the war has turned Iraq into the world's most effective terrorist training camp, perhaps more dangerous than Afghanistan under the Taliban. Also, instead of our being able to use Iraq as a permanent base from which to pressure Iran and Syria, there seems to be a growing allegiance between the evolving Iraqi government and its fundamentalist Shiite neighbors, which may greatly strengthen Iran's strategic position in the Middle East.

The adoption of preemptive war as an American policy has forced the United States to renounce existing treaties and alliances as unnecessary constraints on our superpower's freedom to act unilaterally. Another serious consequence of this policy is the likelihood that other aggressive nations will adopt the same policy of attacking to remove leaders they consider to be undesirable.

When the United States orchestrated the first step toward potential democracy in Iraq early in 2005, there was a dramatic demonstration of courage and commitment to freedom as a large number of Shiite Muslims and Kurds went to the polls in the face of intimidation from Sunni dissidents and terrorist groups. The next steps toward writing a constitution and then forming a representative government are still not predictable as I write this text, but there is great concern about whether Sunnis will cooperate and how dominant the religious laws will be. The ruling Shiite religious parties are demanding that provisions of the Koran, called Sharia, become the supreme authority on marriage, divorce, and inheritance issues. It would be ironic if crucial women's rights that survived Saddam Hussein's regime were lost under the new "democratic" government sponsored and protected by the United States.

It will be a notable achievement if success can be realized, and despite the uncertainties and an increase in the fervor of terrorists, this effort to bring democracy to Iraq deserves the world's support.

There is no doubt that America must accomplish its fundamental objectives before withdrawing our troops from Iraq, but those goals have never been clearly delineated. It is likely that political pressures from a disillusioned American public will be a major factor in setting the minimal goals and time schedule for U.S. troop withdrawal. We should provide the people with water, sewage, communications, electricity, and the ability to produce and market their oil. The Iraqis must have a security force as effective as the one we dismantled, to support a stable and democratic government.

A basic question that will determine the final outcome is whether American leaders will insist on permanent military bases and dominant economic involvement in the country, or make it clear that we have no plans to maintain a continuing presence for our own benefit.

To a surprising and disturbing degree, most Arabs in the region do not agree with my favourable assessment of the democratic effort. In a respected survey done by Zogby International in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Jordan, Lebanon, and the United Arab Emirates and reported in March 2005, an overwhelming majority of Arabs did not believe that U.S. policy in Iraq was motivated by the spread of democracy in the region, and believed that the Middle East had become less democratic after the Iraq war and that Iraqis were worse off than they had been before the conflict. Overall approval ratings of the United States were at an unprecedented low of 2 percent in Egypt, 4 percent in Saudi Arabia, 11 percent in Morocco, 14 percent in United Arab Emirates, 15 percent in Jordan, with a high of only 20 percent in Lebanon.

These were the Arab countries that had the closest historical ties with America. More than three-fourths of the Arab respondents professed support for democratic principles of government, but they strongly condemned the attack on Iraq and the apparent bias of the United States against the rights of the Palestinians. Despite our admirable democratic efforts, these are not good omens for our policies in the region.

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,191
Chris Offline OP
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All the U.S. has to do is:
(a) Pull out of Iraq.
(b) Pull out of the Middle East in general, can't have those nasty oil companies exerting undue influence there
(c) Pull out of Afghanistan
(d) Leave Israel to fend for itself, no aid whatsoever
(e) Sever relations with all those nations who do not like the U.S. Don't attack them, just don't talk to them or trade with them.
(f) Stop bitching at Iran just because they want to produce peaceful nuclear energy. Everyone knows that Iran has NO intention of producing fissionable material and handing it over to terrorists or anything like that. It's all innocent stuff.

Then apparently everything will be just fine. America will be safe. The world will be safe.

Do you believe that?

We have heard many opposing views on this thread. We have heard no solutions. The only things that I can think of that might help would be to (a) get real on ethanol production and other alternative energies - including clean 21st century peaceful nuclear power, not the "peaceful" nukes that Iran wants - (very attainable and realistic goals) and (b) move Israel to California. That last bit is probably not realistic but it would sure settle things down if it could happen. Mind you, there are enough JAP's who think that California is the Holy Land. Might work!

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