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#215639 01/19/02 04:28 PM
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Anonymous
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hey folks---

i, for one, never considered the remarks by mermaid posted in the "dolphin bay" thread to be racist. i meant to speak up for her earlier but just didn't have time to type the reply i intended till now.

the comments that were singled out: "Helper seems a bit nervous on this board. An ex-pat no doubt." and "Don't mind helper, she seems to be passing off her ingrane First World Phobias here on the board frequently."
strike me as assumptions based on NATIONALISTIC generalizations that we all make about each other. many of these generalizations are benign: "belizeans are friendly and easy-going." "americans are in a hurry even when they are on vacation in paradise." these phrases make no direct reference to anyone's race, and indeed there is no ONE race that represents the population of belize OR the USA. any racist implications anyone takes from those kinds of remarks is purely the result of being processed through that person's own internalized feelings of racism, in my opinion.

we are sometimes divided by less benign nationalistic and classist assumptions and i guess in some ways they are quickly based on the averages of our experiences. on the average, american tourists and expats in belize tend to be caucasians and tend to have more money than many average belizeans. i am by no means wealthy by california standards. the only reason i can travel to belize is because i am single, childless and living in a rent controlled apartment with a roommate for the last 12 years. there are plenty of things many, many americans consider the necessities of life that i do without in order to save money to travel. i am ever so fortunate to have a job that, although low-paying and disrespected, allows me the TIME to travel, to spend lengths of time in belize living simply and making friends that the average resort-dwelling, day trip taking, souvenir buying american tourist doesn't get to do.

i just talked to some people at a channukah party who had just come back from a week in ambergris caye at the most expensive resort. they were the exact embodiment of the type of tourist i hope to never be. they had met no one belizean but their tour guides & hotel staff, they ticked off destinations they hit in a check! check! manner, disparaged some of the differences they saw in belizean culture and generally seemed to have the sort of vacation experience that results in nationalist and yes, even some racist, stereotypes about belizeans as well as some lovely photos for their album.

certain types of travelers like to think of themselves as different from this type of tourist, and ex-pats probably think of themselves as even MORE different than the average american (for example), because they have moved away and given up the american way of living in america. i certainly don't want to be lumped in with resort tourist types, but i don't begrudge anyone in belize their assumptions about me. the fact that i can pick up and travel to belize makes me "richer" and in certain ways more privileged than many belizeans but in reality, it isn't by much! we don't know how many similarities we share until we get to know each other. this is why i have made friends with and keep in contact with a variety of people in belize of a wide range of economic circumstances. for another example, i have a sort of pen-pal/mentor relationship with a high school girl and her baby sister to whom i am something like an adopted auntie who lives far away. i have also severed relationships with a few unnamed people who, after i knew them over time, proved to be people i did not care to associate with. whether that person is of spanish descent, or a straight white american male or a dreaded rasta, i try not to let that affect my response to the next person i meet who may share the same national citizenship, race or economic position. for better or worse i try to get to know people as individuals, and as individuals we are responsible and represent for ouselves by actions and words.

and as far as ex-pat status goes, that is a position of even greater privilege i would never be able to achieve, as willing as i'd be to move to belize permanently; i am just not wealthy enough. i think people in positions of privilege are going to attract the resentments of those who have less and those who see themselves as oppressed or discriminated against. that's just human nature. in this particular case, as much as an ex-pat might like to believe s/he has shaken off the nationalistic stereotypical qualities of the US or europe, s/he still can't begrudge locals for noticing uptight "first world" tendancies when they see them. i also think those same people have no reason to go looking for extra insult where none was intended. if the shoe doesn't fit, don't kick yourself with it.

sorry this is so long, but i've been mulling for several days. mermaid, never stop speaking your mind. that's why we're here.

peace

#215640 01/19/02 04:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12
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Oh so very nice BONESTALKER and GOGO! You have both made me feel so great about what I love about Belize, it's culture, and it's people.This has probably been the best thread I have gotten involved with while learning more about Belize and probably more important,learning more about myself and the world I live in. Hope to meet you guys somewhere in our travels!!! Duane

#215641 01/19/02 06:25 PM
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While doing research on Belize, we came upon this site and thought it would be a good place to learn about Belize for our future retirement. And learn I did.

I never thought I would learn that the Belizeans secretly loathe the tourists that they live off. Nice, friendly, easy going island folk that under that smile seethe at your very existance. How horrid it must be to be an ex-pat there.

My husband and I had planned to go to Caye Chapel for a conference about the country put on by an international magazine. The country sounded delightful and there seemed to be business and investment opportunities in a climate that we would enjoy. Unfortunately, it appears that the weather may be good but the climate otherwise is unfriendly.

We are grateful that we happened upon this site before we went any farther in our plans. We will look elsewhere.

#215642 01/19/02 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 26
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Hey gang, How about No Thanks! I think I'm not missing them already.

#215643 01/20/02 04:09 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1
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Soooooooooo glad ´NO THANKS chose to invest elsewhere.

She is the type who comes to RAPE us then turns around and says that we are the ones living off them instead of vice versa.

She is the sort that give EX-PATS the sterotypical bad rap.

#215644 01/20/02 12:20 PM
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mermaid, i know you're flustered, but i think if you reread my post you will see that there is NO 'holier than thou' stand point...i said myself i judge from time to time. and i said myself that we ALL need to look at what we feel is not right and try to do something to help...read the last line- "MY SELF INCLUDED"! what does that mean to you? and i did not prove your point at all. actually i was agreeing with you to a point i said maybe we are all racist sometimes, but where i differed, was when i said that that doesn't mean it is right. my point about the 'spanish mermaid' and the 'black neighborhood' was to help you see that we ARE segregated to a point. sorry if it was a bit feirce. i just want to say also that i for one LOVE ex-pats, LOVE tourists from all different countries and ethnic backrounds, love my creole people, love my spanish people, love my gaurifuna, love my mayans, and everyone else. they teach me so much and baby i want to learn! and i don't even work in the tourism industry imagine that! peace to all....

#215645 01/20/02 07:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12
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STILL A GREAT POST AND I AM ALSO THRILLED THAT "NO THANKS" HAS DECIDED TO FIND ANOTHER PLANET!!!WE WILL ALL BE FINE AND GROW FROM THIS DICUSSION.PEACE TO ALL [Linked Image] D

#215646 01/22/02 01:08 PM
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I went to a birthday party last night for an ex-pat owner of one of the resorts here. I had a great time and it was a great party. Being a local woman, I couldn't help noticing, however, that the only other local people at the party were the handful of employees that work for the gentleman whose birthday it was.

I and my sisters felt like the token local representatives to an otherwise fully ex-pat party. Obviously, the ex-pats had chosen to segregate themselves in their merry-making.

I often wonder why ex-pats who choose to make this island their home do not integrate themselves more with the locals.

Maybe "no thanks" would have been one of those retirees too?

It is just my intuition that integrating and really become a part of the society you live in helps a lot to diffuse culture clashes.

And, as you can see, the discrimination is not all local-oriented.

Cheers,

#215647 01/22/02 03:45 PM
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i remember 4th of july 2000---to my horror, an ENORMOUS american flag strung from the coco palms in front of the sandbox & trends. <a local guy shimmyed up the trees to hang it where no american could have.> local kids stood in front of it singing the BELIZE national anthem, throwing rocks. <me watching and laughing and laughing.> then heard later that the then owners of the sandbox sponsored no celebrations for belize independance day, that they preferred instead to close . told me something about ex pats & business owners...

#215648 01/23/02 01:43 AM
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Gogo,
4th of July is a U.S. celebration, true. However horrified you were there are many tourists from the U.S. that appreciate celebrating holidays when traveling. As for the closing of the establishment on September 21st this was to allow the staff to celebrate the holiday instead of working.

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