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privacy & flying #251369
10/01/07 10:15 AM
10/01/07 10:15 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,281
Barbara K Offline OP
Barbara K  Offline OP
I saw this on another board and thought it was interesting. Anyone hear about it or know anything?

Privacy & Rights
Make Sure You Ask Big Brothers'
Permission Before You Fly
Last year, I wrote here that if Uncle Sam gets its way, we'd all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us permission to leave - or re-enter - the United States.
Now, the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) has proposed a similar system for travel on commercial airlines WITHIN the United States. Both systems will come into effect Feb. 19, 2008.
Under the TSA's "Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) initiative," you'll need to obtain permission from the U.S. government to travel on any commercial airliner or ship that goes to or from the United States. You won't receive your boarding pass until you are cleared by APIS. You'll also need permission to travel through the United States (e.g., if you're changing planes at a U.S. airport on a trip between two foreign countries). It doesn't matter if you're a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. Everyone will need permission to enter - or leave - the United States.
Then, on Aug. 23, 2007, the TSA issued proposed regulations for its "Secure Flight" program. The TSA wants commercial airlines to submit passenger information through a single DHS portal for both the Secure Flight and APIS programs. This would result in one DHS system responsible for watch list matching for all aviation passengers.
Naturally, the entire process - for both domestic and international travel - will occur in total secrecy. If you're denied permission to travel, you won't be able to appeal the decision to any court. Your only recourse will be through the TSA bureaucracy. Essentially, you'll be reduced to pleading with the TSA to say something like, "pretty please, give me a boarding pass."
What this amounts to is essentially a reprise of the infamous "internal passport" system in effect in the former Soviet Union. In 1933, Soviet dictator Josef Stalin introduced "internal passports" that prohibited Soviet citizens from leaving their place of residence without permission. Over time, the internal passport became the prime instrument of Soviet oppression over its citizens.
It's bad enough needing to ask Uncle Sam for permission to leave the United States, and to reenter it. But an internal passport is a blueprint for totalitarianism.
If you don't like the idea of having to obtain permission from Uncle Sam to travel domestically, you have until Oct. 22, 2007 to submit written comments to TSA for consideration before the final rule is issued. To do so, go to the "Federal e-Rulemaking Portal" at and follow the instructions for submitting comments. Submissions must include docket number "TSA-2007-28572."
MARK NESTMANN, Privacy Expert & President,
The Nestmann Group

Re: privacy & flying [Re: Barbara K] #251511
10/02/07 12:07 PM
10/02/07 12:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,255
bucks county, PA
sweetjane Offline
sweetjane  Offline
yikes! anyone else heard this???

Re: privacy & flying [Re: sweetjane] #251516
10/02/07 12:35 PM
10/02/07 12:35 PM

Rings a bell. Since 9-11 the US authorities have tried to control aviation world-wide, and it's become most unpleasant for a non-American to come anywhere near your shores. It was only a matter of time before it was extended to the natives(!).

For years now a non-American wanting to enter the USA, even if only for the purposes of transiting to another country, has been compelled to sign a form stating explicitly that they waive any legal rights whilst in America. That's ANY legal rights.

We're heading towards totalitarian societies folks, both in Europe and America. Orwell was only wrong in his timing.

Re: privacy & flying [Re: ] #251518
10/02/07 12:48 PM
10/02/07 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
SimonB Offline

SimonB  Offline
Is the wall along the Canadian Border only a matter of time?

Re: privacy & flying [Re: SimonB] #251520
10/02/07 01:04 PM
10/02/07 01:04 PM

No - full integration of Canada into the US is.

(duck ready for the flak!)

Re: privacy & flying [Re: ] #251526
10/02/07 01:38 PM
10/02/07 01:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
SimonB Offline

SimonB  Offline
The other way around maybe, I've heard rumours that the Canadian government is looking into buying up all of the US real estate now that the CDN dollar is so high.

Re: privacy & flying [Re: ] #251594
10/02/07 09:55 PM
10/02/07 09:55 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,701
Pismo Beach
Rykat Offline
Rykat  Offline
Cast yee eyes toward the skies - the Mother Wheel approaches smirk wink laugh

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