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GBZ39 #380121 06/13/10 12:07 PM
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I'm curious as to how you've derived that information from the accounts. I think you've misunderstood what "administrative and general expenses" represent.

I am more interested in items such as:-

(1) the total income for 2009 at $221,774 rose by 79% from the 2008 figure of $123,801 (all Belize dollars). This coincides with Laurie's tenure there as vet. It will be interesting to see the comparable figure for 2010 in due course.

(2) if we exclude a one-off donation received from the UK in 2008, "donations, grants, fundraisers and product sales" rose by 72% in 2009. These "product sales" exclude drugs and medications (which are accounted for elsewhere) so presumably make up a tiny proportion of the heading. This was a massive increase in revenue, which we can but hope was continued after Laurie's departure (as no figures have yet been published for the year-to-date).

(3) even though there was no vet for half of 2008, and when there was she was paid less than Laurie in 2009, "personnel" costs were only 1/3 less for the earlier year. And "facility costs", which are the costs of occupying the main building so include rent, electricity, water etc, rose by almost 50% between the two years to $46,905 in 2009 - a remarkable increase. Though as "administrative and general expenses" dropped by around the same number of $, perhaps there is an error in the accounts?

(4) the cost of "drugs and medications" used in the practice remained virtually unchanged between the two years and the recorded inventory (stocks) remained unchanged, but the associated sales receipts rose by almost 63% between the two years. Strange.

(5) the main building occupied by SAGA is rented month-on-month, with no security of tenure and only a two month notice period. It can be terminated for no reason. That isn't particularly good, and acquiring their own premises or at least longer-term security of tenure is likely to be high on the priority list of the Trustees.

(6) it is hard (impossible) from these accounts to tell what the financial implications of having their own vet or not are, but for 2009 I would estimate that the net costs of employing a vet were around $15,000. That saving in 2010 can be employed in buying veterinary services for shelter animals and needy cases of pet ownership. Vet treatment for other patients would be at full commercial rates and would be revenue-neutral to SAGA as they would be paid directly to the commercial vet.

(7) it is stated in the audit report that appropriate registrations for charitable status in the USA were neglected and lapsed but were later renewed, but it is not stated whether tax relief for the lapsed period was ever recovered.

Inplub #380122 06/13/10 12:10 PM
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I guess it never makes a profit as its a NON Profit organization.

If they have positive funds they just increase the charitable work and spend the dosh on whatever the subject of there charity is.

Gaz

Inplub #380123 06/13/10 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Inplub
Can you tell me please what happens when a Non Profit Organization makes a profit?


In the US, Non Profit Organizations are permitted to make money. The difference between a Profit and Non-Profit is who gets the money they make.


Friends of San Pedro
A US Non-Profit for San Pedro
http://friendsofsanpedro.org
Inplub #380124 06/13/10 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Inplub
Can you tell me please what happens when a Non Profit Organization makes a profit?


This is actually a tricky one. Given their legal status they are not allowed to make a profit from any commercial activities, so it is a moot point whether they are permitted to run a "for profit" clinic. Yet this is what they are demanding to subsidise their charitable work.

If they are permitted to run a "for profit" arm to their activities, that arm cannot use donated drugs and money without being charged appropriate commercial rates (and possibly not at all, depending on the terms of the gift). And it has to pay a share of the general costs of the "business". As a business centre it is subject to all the normal taxation provisions so it has to be accounted for separately, which given the scale of the operation is an administrative nightmare. I suspect that in practice it would just be swept under the carpet, which is fine until someone from the tax authorities spots it.

Something I forgot to say - a "for profit" clinic run by SAGA will be subject to all the legal and professional constraints put on commercial vets. They will not be allowed to use out-of-date drugs, they must use appropriate drugs and anaesthetics, they must have appropriate equipment, they must operate in all ways according to veterinary "best practice". Procedures that "got by" in the past will not be permitted in the future, now that there is a "proper" vet available. In demanding to have their own vet permitted to operate commercially I don't think they know what they're asking for.

Last edited by Peter Jones; 06/13/10 12:35 PM. Reason: added last paragraph
fosp #380125 06/13/10 12:15 PM
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Thank you, does a non profit org have to pay tax on the profit if they make one?

Inplub #380126 06/13/10 12:17 PM
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In general and strictly, yes. In Britain and quite possibly here, exceptions can be made by the Charity Commissioners (or whatever they're called here) - the government body that controls charities.

GBZ39 #380127 06/13/10 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GBZ39
Obviously there were reporting problems years ago but they seem to have been taken care of with respect to US reporting

We aren't told that. Just that for the years in question the situation has been put right. We don't know if there are any residual issues from the years when they were in dereliction.

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So if my Drugs cost BZ$40,000.00 and I sold them for BZ$123,000.00 I have made over 200% profit or is there some thing wrong with my maths? Would I then be TAXED on my profit of BZ$83,000.00.

Inplub #380130 06/13/10 12:36 PM
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LOL

Gaz

Last edited by Gaz Cooper; 06/13/10 12:36 PM.
Inplub #380131 06/13/10 12:39 PM
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I'm not sure John, but that is certainly a possibility. I think a lot would depend on the overall financial results of operating the clinic of which the "for profit" services were a part. This needs to be researched properly and I haven't done that - I'm just aware of the general principles that apply here.

Note that I amended my post of half an hour ago.

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