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Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: Phil] #383362
07/10/10 06:46 PM
07/10/10 06:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 153
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chris45 Offline
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chris45  Offline
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OK I've stopped and thought about it. What do I expect the BTB to do? To focus on air ticket costs and start by answering some questions, such as:
1. The PGIA has been enlarged Why was this done?
2. Since PGIA was enlarged what changes has this made to the volume of incoming air traffic?
3. Is it true that PGIA has not been approved for larger aircraft movements because certain legal obstacles inside Belize have not been resolved?
4. And if this is true, why have they not been resolved?
5. Exactly WHAT are these legal obstacles and who has to resolve them?
6. What steps IS the BTB currently taking to address the issue of high ticket prices?
7. Has the BTB considered some form of subsidy and if so what were its findings?
8. Does the BTB accept that uncompetitive ticket prices is probably the single biggest obstacle to growth in tourism?

In summary, Phil, to answer your question about what I expect BTB to do, I expect them to acknowledge air ticket prices as the heart of the problem (if they believe that, hence question 8).
I fear that BTB have labelled the question too difficult and moved on to other options. That does not solve what I believe to be the key issue.

As for the cruise ship issue, BTB's own research warns that this is a path strewn with pitfalls, which up to now we have seen no evidence that the BTB is prepared to acknowledge
I don't pretend to have the answer, I would just like to feel confident that Mr Singh and Mr Heredia acknowledge the problem. Without that we are going nowhere.

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: chris45] #383368
07/10/10 08:41 PM
07/10/10 08:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,672
Northern California
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LaurieMar Offline
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LaurieMar  Offline
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From a frequent visitor standpoint, I would not like seeing the island grow anymore than it has. In the 10 years since I first was there, it astounds me as to the number of condos that have been built. As with anywhere, with more people, come more problems.

This topic is a double edged sword. And, why would anyone want to take a cruise ship to Belize? Never understood that as there are hundreds of things to see and do on land. If it were me, I would get off the ship and stay for a while! smile

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: LaurieMar] #383389
07/11/10 12:07 PM
07/11/10 12:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,160
San Pedro
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Phil Offline
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Phil  Offline
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Chris you donít seem to have yet got your head around the intricacies of living in one of the smallest countries in the world, and it's lack of income. A huge percentage of the population struggle to put food on their plates, have electricity or running water, a school to send their kids. Sorry but lol at subsidsing the airlines given the state of our finances unless it's done privately.

Your fear is correct because there is nothing they can do except what they already have/are. Lobby. How else do you tell someone, that you have no leverage over, that your prices are too high. Make an appointment with Mike Singh CEO BTB and talk to him. I was in your camp until I sat and listened to him one day at a meeting here in San Pedro. Yes he could be full of it, but what he said made logical sense.

I'm not saying give up, but face the reality it's going to be decades until it changes. I AM saying in the mean time lets concentrate on the things we can control and change RIGHT NOW.

Not certain on this but I think PGIA is completely privately owned. They extended the runway so physically Jumbos, or long haul jets can land. They have now done what I imagine they had to contractually in the purchase. However, no airline on the planet will fly big jets here until there is a hotel large enough to overnight the whole plane in case of problems. We don't have a single hotel that big. That will take a major player to build and they won't come because..........yep there are no large jets flying in to fill up their rooms.

Stay small, nimble and agile and offer more and something different. I like less people paying more and so do these type of tourist. Yes airline prices this high and are not good for business but I'd rather have them high than at Cancun prices - silver lining in everything.

Nowhere else can match us in Belize if we market it right. Yes we're probably at or even past saturation point. Those that are preparing to open new ventures better look long and hard and have a plan as should all the existing.

I hope you don't feel I'm picking on you and many others will also blindly or ignorantly (harsh word, take it in the right context please) blame BTB BTIA - even GOB

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: Phil] #383391
07/11/10 12:17 PM
07/11/10 12:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 314
Ontario, Canada
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Northern Canuck Offline
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Northern Canuck  Offline
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I am not one for increasing the tourism in San Pedro either, I feel it is already overdone. Phil, why can't the GOB increase land tax on foreign ownership to generate cash to improve schools health care subsidize flights etc. These guys were lucky enough to live in a country that allowed them to make big money and then buy a condo (probably as an investment) at a steal in Belize and then pay unrealistic taxes on it. GOB does not have to increase taxes on it's citizens just the owners who use Belize as a playground... Am I missing something???

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: Northern Canuck] #383393
07/11/10 12:27 PM
07/11/10 12:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,160
San Pedro
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Phil Offline
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Phil  Offline
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Not sure it's constitutionally legal to charge one part of the population more than the other.

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: Phil] #383394
07/11/10 12:33 PM
07/11/10 12:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 515
Florida, Belize, Noerth Caroli...
CaptOneIron Offline
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CaptOneIron  Offline
Norther Canuck I don't know who you are but increasing taxes always leads to less of the product you are taxing. Is that what you want less people living here and paying taxes. What you are missing is your common sense. Like most people you are more than willing to tax the other guy and spend his money. If you are so concerned about these problems why don't you donate some of your own money?


Captain One Iron
Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: CaptOneIron] #383395
07/11/10 12:39 PM
07/11/10 12:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,160
San Pedro
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Phil Offline
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Phil  Offline
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Bit harsh, it's a common and popular option, if just to help locally with infrastructure etc.

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: Phil] #383397
07/11/10 01:33 PM
07/11/10 01:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 314
Ontario, Canada
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Northern Canuck Offline
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Northern Canuck  Offline
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I think it's called fairness. Wealthy (relatively speaking) people coming to a 3rd world country and benefiting from it yet not willing to pay a fair price for doing so while seeing the poor education system the health care system and lack of infrastrucure does not seem fair to me. That is just another form of colonialism... What are the guys who own condos/houses going to do? sell their properties because the land tax is now a little higher but still much less than in the US, Canada, Europe or other Caribbean countries? I doubt it. They will keep their property and still enjoy Belize.
Not sure about the constitution (I'm not a lwayer)but I'm sure they can add a tax to foreign investment/land purchase and if the constitution says they can't they must be able to change it. I doubt the citizens who get to vote would dump a gov't for trying to improve their lives by getting non-citizens to help pay.
Capt., I have donated...

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: Phil] #383407
07/11/10 05:32 PM
07/11/10 05:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 153
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chris45 Offline
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chris45  Offline
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Phil I live in Toledo. I am well aware of the poverty and the difficulties of living in a small country.
I am the first to admit that solving the airline ticket price issue is not going to be easy. however it IS the biggest issue IMHO, and therefore needs to be adressed by those responsible for our tourism industry. it does not cease to be an issue just because it is difficult.
I accept it may take a long time.
PGIA is privately owned, correct. that in itself raises issues.
i would very much like to see the airlines bluff called on this hotel accomodation argument. i wonder how many hotel rooms we would need to have to satisfy them.
its this chicken and egg argument that BTB should be addressing.
instead of which a second international airport has been allowed (well, sort of) which will so they say be flying in jets from Europe. it seems that the hotel room argument does not apply to them.
Your idea about staying small, nimble and agile is right. however we have to remember that wonderful as Belize is, we have competitors at lower prices. GOB at least does not agree with you, otherwise why have they allowed the wholesale development of condos and hotels on the Placencia peninsular, and why are they promoting the expansion of cruise ship tourism to southern Belize?
Sorry, Phil we are not going to agree on this. BTB are responsible for tourism in Belize. High airticket prices are IMHO a major barrier to increased tourism, ergo it is their responsibility.Period.

Re: Why Belize Suffers in the Tourism Business [Re: chris45] #383412
07/11/10 07:46 PM
07/11/10 07:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 60
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Amir Offline
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Amir  Offline
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Are the folks at these agencies working as hard as these times require cranking out those press releases, slide shows, websites, blogs, tweets, facebook, videos, and every other means of promoting tourism?
Airlines are making a profit because they have cut service. Why not lease one of their idle planes during season, paint BELIZE AIR on the side and shuttle it to Florida, Texas and other feeder airports?
The companion ticket makes sense politically too. In theory, the paying passenger is bringing along extra tourism.
Many good ideas are expressed here and business people know doing nothing is a recipe for disaster. The cost of keeping the doors open goes up every year.
Chris has got the energy to hang in there, but I understand why folks close up and leave. If the government is going to lay down and quit on improving air transportation, it might be wise not to invest any more money in Belize.

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