AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums About Belize Nature Ambergris Croc Relocation Concern

To Concerned Residents and Resort Owners,

ACES is receiving complaints about the area into which we have been relocating problematic crocodiles. First, despite the rumors, ACES does not relocate problematic crocs into immediate residential areas, nor are we placing them in captivity and letting them escape. ACES hears and agrees with the relocation concerns one hundred percent and feels that the communities of Ambergris Caye need to come together to find the solution, hence a croc containment facility for education and tourism. No matter if we took these crocs 100 miles away, it has been scientifically proven that they will normally return to where they came from originally. ACES has been providing a free community service of removing problematic crocs that are causing immediate danger to pets and people. We have been relocating these crocs to an area that is being proposed to become a wildlife sanctuary off of the public road leading into Grande Belize Estates Development where there are no immediate homes. For the record, there are only eight large repeat offending problematic crocs that we have relocated to the area north. Thus, we are re-capturing and relocating the same animals more than once, we are not bringing more crocs into the area. The relocated crocs keep returning to their southern homes. American crocodiles are not only an endangered species, but a very important part of keeping the island's ecosystem in balance and cannot just "be killed."

ACES has been suggesting an educational containment facility for over a year now and has even hand delivered proposals that are available for viewing at AmericanCrocodileSanctuary.org. We are a transparent non-profit organization and are willing to hold a public meeting and divulge our past years expenses, funding, and the estimated costs of the proposed educational tourist eco-attraction for the island. Please call Vince at 631-6366 with suggestions and concerns. Vince is happy to meet with you in person at your convenience.

Sincerely,Vince & Cherie

To be honest, up here we are not very happy with this relocation. We are just north of Mata Grande and I have two young children - 3 and 6 years - same snack size as a dog. We also have 30 staff and of course guests. High land is very narrow here and the lagoon borders our property - 250 to 300 feet from the seafront. I assume the residents at Mata Grande are not happy either, I know there are kids and dogs there and hope the crocodile finds his way back where he came from soon and doesn't come our direction, while it is lost and looking for it's home. When you have a problem crocodile, you should just put it down, as hard as it is or, keep it in captivity - isn't there a new crocodile refuge on the mainland? I am sure that you also know from experience that a problem crocodile will never adjust back to the wild and keep going for the easy prey. When choosing between the life of an endangered problem crocodile that will never rehabilitate or putting human lives at risk the answer should be simple in my opinion.
Jan van Noord

"Thus, we are re-capturing and relocating the same animals more than once, we are not bringing more crocs into the area."

"For the record, there are only eight large repeat offending problematic crocs that we have relocated to the area north."

Huh? -We have not brought any more crocs into the area, I mean with the exception of those 8 large problematic ones.

Quick and simple for the record, I am for putting problem crocs down. Lets not be silly about the endangered species status. We should look to Florida for guidance in handling this situation they have a mature program with their alligator problems...
but the problem here is more immediate than can wait for legislation and we should just kill these few problem crocs on sight and now.
Belize has never been known for enforcing laws of this nature and I'm sure it will go without interference from government.

I agree with Elbert.

And I loudly protest the relocation of the problem crocs to Mata Grande.

Vince told me that the problem crocs have been dropped off in the Mata Lagoon by the bridge into GBE.
If a croc can walk from there to San Pablo, I'd say it is WAY TOO CLOSE to a very nice people-populated neighborhood.

Apparently the croc in the pool at LT was one of these that were relocated where there were "no immediate homes" .....

This is one time I am not in the least bit ashamed to be a NIMBY.

I am so glad to FINALLY be getting everyone's attention. ACES is very much aware of proper wildlife management. I am educated and have worked for both the USA Division of Wildlife and the National Marine Fisheries Service. We have repeatedly stated that relocation is NOT an answer. The answer is, just like alligators in the states when they were endangered, to place the large problematic crocs in captivity and then rear hatchlings (young) and re-release a percentage according to the population status to keep the eco-system in balance. Once the population is stable, then anything over 6 feet that has either been fed by a human or that is problematic would be put down and all the parts used, bringing funds back to the Belize Forest Department and providing self-sustainability for the educational containment facility. ACES population survey for the past year is complete and data results are being compiled. A Croc Conservation plan for the island based on the data will be proposed to Belize Government before the new year. These are the proper steps to take for proper wildlife management. Not indiscriminate killing of endangered animals. And for the record, if locals had not been feeding these apex predators illegally for so many years, which they still do, there would not be so many problematic crocodiles. ACES is part of the solution, not the problem. Let's put our energy together and work towards a containment facility for the captivity of the problem crocs, education, and tourism here on the island. There is an ACES facility on the mainland and it currently holds 2 large problem croc from Ambergris Caye. The thing is, after the 22 Morelet's we rescued last week we have no more room there right now. We need funding for habitats there before we can take anymore. We are only two people and are doing the best we can with what we have. If ACES in PG had not been burnt down there wouldn't be this problem at all. We have been removing problem crocs to a less populated area taking those in immediate danger out of harms way. And every time we did so, we did post warnings in the news that this is not the answer and that the crocs will only return or become someone else's problem. Anyone wishing to help raise funds for the proper containment of problem crocs either here or on the mainland please feel free to contact us at 631-6366 or [email protected]. Thank you all for your concern. Sincerely,
Cherie

First, I don't believe anyone on this board questions ACES intent, nor your experience.

That said, if as you say above "we have repeatedly stated that relocation is not the answer" then one is tempted to ask... uh... why relocate them?

I mean, what possible good does it do to take a problem croc from town and move it 5 miles to the north?

Just asking.

...one could make a compelling argument that relocating a croc 5-10 miles is taking a more localized problem and simply broadening its scope.

EX: before it was relocated, Las Terazas did not really have to consider the possibility of the "WASA croc" ending up in their pool...???

A crocodile's range is much more than 5 miles. Gators in Florida that where relocated have been known to travel over 100 miles to return to from where they came.

Um....

my point exactly.

So taking a problem croc that is, say in the WASA pond, and moving it elsewhere on the island accomplishes what exactly?

I mean, before 'relocation' at least it was KNOWN that it was IN THE WASA POND.

And truthfully, as long as garbage is continually dumped at the lagoon's edge, anyone may have a croc problem. Indirect feeding is the second cause, next to direct feeding, of problematic crocodiles. The crocodiles come to feed on the fish, raccoons and other animals that are feeding on the garbage.

...dumping trash in the lagoon's edge is obviously bad/wrong on lots of front (perhaps it should be dumped further IN the lagoon, to keep the crocs away from the periphery?)

...and yes, anybody on the island may have a croc problem, especially w/ the problem crocs being shuffled about the island.

Again and in all seriousness, what exactly is hoped to be accomplished by moving a problem croc, for all intent purposes, "across town" ???

Cherie, I will ignore your last post and want to point out that before you came to this island we didn't have a crocodile problem up north. Now you are basically saying that unless we donate to build a facility for you, you will keep dropping problem crocodiles in our backyards? I don't think that is the way to get support. When there is no possibility to keep problem crocodiles in captivity at this moment you should face the facts and put the next one you capture down. Then you will get respect and support.
Jan

PS: At Peccary Hills which they are trying to declare a nature reserve, 5 crocodiles were killed a few months ago by jaguars. I think they want some new ones, as they are a tourist attraction.

I remember a story from 15 to 20 years ago, some problem crocodiles were relocated to Turneffe, they also came back.
Jan

No one has really chimed in with any explanation of what, exactly, is accomplished by moving the problem crocs from one neighborhood on the island to another...???

Seems that, given the current lack of a completed sanctuary, less a problem croc is going to be killed, for the time being, they might as well simply be left where they are??? I mean unless they're in someone's living room, why trap them???

Just askin'...

ACES has never stated that we intend to ignore your concerns. We are trying to provide solutions to the problem and are open to suggestions.

First, indiscriminate development that fragments croc habitats, filling of wetland habitats for development, directly feeding crocs, and improper waste disposal are the causes of problematic crocs. You are hearing of more croc problems, because we are making people aware of the situation.

It has taken most of the crocs that have been relocated to the east, west road up north at least 3 months to return to their origin of capture. To date, the croc in Las Terrazas pool is the only croc that has showed up in the North as a problem due to relocation. The actual capture and relocation of a croc is considered a type of 'aversion therapy' as well as taking people out of immediate danger. It has been proven in 'wild' crocs that the stress of capture and relocation tends to make the animal weary of going near humans again. Most often relocated crocs are not a problem again. But when the local boys continue to feed them, then all bets are off.

We ONLY relocate crocs that are an immediate threat, for example: under a home.
We do NOT relocate every croc we capture. We are conducting a croc population survey and most trapped or caught crocs are tagged, sexed, measured and re-released at the point of capture.

ACES has been offered funds for fuel to re-locate the next problem croc even farther North. The question is 'how far is far enough,' and 'how does one decided where is the proper place for re-release?' No matter where you take them to someone will complain.

I have contacted the appropriate International authorities in regard to the extent of the situation here on the island. I will keep the public informed. http://www.americancrocodilesanctuary.org/safewithcrocs.htm

If you got the fuel, it seems that the (huge) expanse of pretty much unpopulated coastline between Ladyville and Sarteneja might be the logical place to bring the problematic ones?

Not to say they might not cross the open expanse of the bay back to Ambergris, but it'd take a concerted effort. And looking at a map, there's really nothing much over there save lagoons and mangrove.

They will either swim back to the island or become a problem in Ladyville and Sarteneja. Captivity or euthanization are the only true answers to problematic crocodiles over 6 feet in length. ACES is recommending captivity and asking for support. Euthanization of all the large problem crocs will effect the balance of the ecosystem. ACES is proposing captivity with a certain percentage of hatchlings, determined by ongoing population survey's, re-released each year to maintain a healthy environment and a self-sustainable population of American crocodiles. As long as people do not directly feed them, and we all work together to clean up all the indirect feeding, the crocs will grow up to be 'wild' animals and behave like any other wild animal - run away from humans rather than towards them. It will take time and everyone working together. Otherwise, people will indiscriminately start killing crocs, and hence why they are endangered.

Cherie, I think we don't understand each other. Although I support your goals, I do not support your current methods. I have read and re-read your statements very carefully and they don't add up in my opinion, I am sorry.
Jan

They will. It's a built in system with their genetics. Just as sea turtles home in on their birth place so do crocs; even if it means hundreds of miles of travel.

I may not be an "educated" biologist but I spent more than a few years working with Crocodile researchers in the Orange Walk district and I do have some understanding of them.

I think people need to start re-directing their anger at the people who caused this problem by allowing the wholesale destruction of the habitat of these "problem" crocs and making them accountable financially for the results.

Destruction of habitat needs to stop, true, has got nothing to do with the problem crocodiles in town, and Biologist Cherie agrees (see her posts). The relocating the problem crocodile that has been relocated into a healthy populated (croc) area is silly and might be dangerous - don't mess with the wildlife and relocating is just as dumb as feeding the crocodiles in my humble opinion - it doesn't support the survival of the species at all.
Jan

Well, if they're gonna eventually go back to where they were trapped anyways, unless you A) have a place to keep them in captivity or B) plan on euthanizing them, why the heck move them? That question's been asked numerous times here and never has been answered?

If there is, for example, a problem croc in the WASA pond, gosh, that totally sucks, but less you're going to keep it captive or kill it, just leave it in the freakin WASA pond!!!

It's my understanding that a problem croc that was trapped in one of the lagoon channels behind the houses just south of Costa Maya a while back was 'relocated' down SOUTH by the marina/behind where the barges dock???

Again, WHY shuttle the crocs around?

I mean if the only benefit of trapping them is "aversion" therapy, trap them, rough em up a bit, knock 'em around with a pillow case filled with oranges or cue ball in a sock or such, and leave 'em where they ARE.

Just don't dump 'em around the island and increase the chances that they'll turn up in brand new places.

I agree w/ Jan... I think we're ALL in support of ACES ultimate goal, but until they have a completed facility, leave the crocs where they are.

I did state that destruction of habitat is part of the cause.
"First, indiscriminate development that fragments croc habitats, filling of wetland habitats for development, directly feeding crocs, and improper waste disposal are the causes of problematic crocs. You are hearing of more croc problems, because we are making people aware of the situation."

ACES - PLEASE STOP DUMPING CROCS AT MATA GRANDE AND OTHER SUCH AREAS.

No one is saying that loss/destruction of habitat is not one of the problems.

All we're suggesting is stop moving the crocs about the island.

ACES has yet to explain at all what doing so accomplishes???