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20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ #533636
12/05/18 06:31 AM
12/05/18 06:31 AM
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 68,932
oregon, spr
Marty Offline OP

Marty  Offline OP
by Hector Silva.

1. Spain never ever conquered nor did she occupy these lands, now Belize.

2. Spain was repelled three times from these Belize lands. (Chactemal, Tipu and St George's Caye.)

3. Spain abandoned her pretentions over these Belize lands and granted independence to new spain colonies.

4. Spain could not give to Guatemala what she did not conquered nor own

5. The boundaries of Belize were demarcated on January 1st, 5o 18- - ( Clayton/Bulwer )

6. Guatemala recognized these borders in 1859

7. Guatemala agreed to survey & place Markers in 1931.

8. Guatemala recognized the Independence of Belize's in 1992.

9. Then came the funny games with Guatemala io.Culminating in a secret deal Compromise.

10. Pope Alexander vi, had no authority to give a title on the American Continent to Spain and Portugal in 1493.

11. In 1798, when the Spaniards abandoned the shores of Belize, .Guatemala NEVER existed until 1821.

12. The Settlement of Belize in the Bay of Honduras already had a form of Government administered by Magistrates.

13. The Boundaries of the Settlement of Belize were DEFINED on the 1st of January, 1850, by Britain and The United States of of America in exchange for Britain, to give back the " Bay Island to Honduras and the Misquito Coast & Blue Fields to Nicaragua.

14. Belize has been in existence and in UNDISTURBED position from 1798.-We inhabit the land, We used the land and we Build the land.

15. The very Country from whom Guatemala claims she inherited these Belize Lands Spain, - SPAIN VOTED IN SUPPORT OF BELIZE'S INDEPENDENCE in 1981 at the United nations.

16. Belize is now a Sovereign Country with all its Territory INTACT so why go to an ICJ Court to tell us if it is TRUE.

17. Belize is now a FULL Member of the United Nations,The OAS, and the Commonwealth of Nations, the CARICOM ( Caribbean Community. - How can we question all these affiliations.

18. AT NO TIME did Guatemala have any authority over even an INCH of Belize.

19. - I WILL VOTE NO, because I consider the COMPROMIS as n ACT OF TREACHERY against the existence of BELIZE.

Re: 20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ [Re: Marty] #533638
12/05/18 07:14 AM
12/05/18 07:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,184
San Pedro AC Belize
Diane Campbell Offline
Diane Campbell  Offline
I agree. Why go to court over an issue we firmly believe DOES NOT exist. Guatemala has nothing to lose, so of course they want to go.

Re: 20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ [Re: Marty] #533650
12/05/18 01:48 PM
12/05/18 01:48 PM
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 68,932
oregon, spr
Marty Offline OP

Marty  Offline OP

Old article from 1978 LA Times...



As one reads this 1978 Los Angeles Times newspaper article about Belize's independence and the Anglo Guatemalan Claim, the American foreign policy spin through the Reuters news agency comes across almost insulting and envious that Belize will be getting its independence. The article presents a bias and inferior image of Belize as though the government of Belize at that time had to beg the Guatemalan military oligarchy and the colonial British slave master for Belize’s independence. It is embarrassing and shameful in terms of how Belize was projected through the American mass media at that time as though the power brokers in the American government who wanted Belize to become a part of the republic of Guatemala since its backed 1968 Webster Proposals, had wanted Britain and Guatemala to deprived Belize of its independence from Britain that it finally won in 1981.

Belizeans at home and abroad has got to remember that it was the the Guatemalan government, the Zionist State of Israel, and the United States government, who did not vote for Belize's independence at the United Nations.

by Belizean Diaspora Voting Rights

Re: 20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ [Re: Marty] #533655
12/06/18 05:58 AM
12/06/18 05:58 AM
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 68,932
oregon, spr
Marty Offline OP

Marty  Offline OP
Say no to the International Court of Justice


1. Prior to Spain Britain and the other European countries colonizing this part of the world, several nation states existed but they came and used unjustifiable force on the native citizens to take away their territories from them and colonized the entire region.

2. The Guatemalan claim to Belize is based on a treaty that was signed between Spain and Portugal in the Treaty of Tordesillas with Pope Alexander the V1 giving Spain ownership to all the people and territories in the Western Hemisphere including Belize in 1493 which is unlawful.

3. Even though Spain was given legal possession of Belize in the treaty of 1493, Spain never occupied, developed or established any form of administration in Belize.

4. In September of 1798, Spain attacked the British in an attempt to retake Belize from them but the British along with their slaves fought to resist them and retained the territory.

5. Because Spain obtained Belize and all the territories through unlawful means, they never possessed Real Title to Belize or any of the territories in the Western Hemisphere. In fact, the people who have and continue to live in these territories all need to come together to file a joint law suit against Spain for the atrocities, genocide, minerals taken from their land and all damages caused to their people and nation.

6. When the countries of Central America declared themselves independent in 1821 and formed the Central American Republic, the included Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala Belize was not a part of them because they saw Belize as a separate nation.

7. Belize became a British Colony in 1862, self-governed in 1964 and an independent and sovereign nation on Sept. 2, 1981. It was also accepted by member states of the United Nations.

8. Guatemala signed a treaty with Great Britain in 1859 ceding Belize to the British and to end all hostilities towards Belize that was inherited by them from Spain their mother country. After the treaty was signed the borders and boundaries of Belize was established and recognized by both countries.

9. If the Guatemalans had a problem with the British for not abiding by the terms of the treaty, Guatemala has the right to bring a case against the British at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) for non-compliance to seek redress. Guatemala has failed to do this since they signed the treaty.

10. The people of Belize has their right to self-determination in accordance with International Law to choose their own destiny. Belize do not want to be under the jurisdiction of Guatemala. Belize is a nation of various ethnic groups and their desire is to remain living in peace and tranquility as one people.

11. Guatemala has one of the worse human rights record in Central America for committing genocide against the native Maya Indians. Before they established their nation, Spain did the same thing to them. Belizeans are fearful that the same can happen to them.

12. Taking this dispute to the ICJ will result in Belizeans given up their future to the court which can result in the loss of land, liberty and justice, national identity because Belizeans could be forced to become Guatemalans against their free will.

13. If the court rules in favor of Guatemala, they will cross the borders and come into Belize to take what the court says belongs to them. On the other hand if the court rules against them, they might still stick to claiming our beloved country Belize.

14. The Compromis Agreement to take the Guatemalan dispute to the ICJ is in violation of our constitution, which clearly defines our territory of Belize. In our constitution it is also stated, that any decision to cede our land, or maritime areas must be brought to the citizens of Belize to be decided in a referendum vote. The question to be voted on in the ICJ referendum pertains to land cession and we were not given the opportunity to decide on the question.

11. If Belize does not go to ICJ, we lose nothing; however, if we do go and Guatemala wins the case, we will lose part of Belize, from Sibun River to the Sarstoon.

12. Do you want Belize to disappear as a nation? From Sibun River to Sarstoon River will be for Guatemala. In addition, although Mexico is not claiming Belize; but if the division is done, should Guatemala win the case, then Mexico automatically is by that decision owner of the rest of Belize, from Sibun River to Rio Hondo. This means Belize will no longer be!

13. There will be a severe psychological, cultural and language mal-adjustment and trauma for the people if the southern part of Belize is given to Guatemala which will take decades to overcome, if it can actually be overcome.

14. Do Belizeans in the west and south want to belong to Guatemala? If yes, go to ICJ. If not, say no, no, no to ICJ.

15. This is an Anglo- Guatemalan Dispute. “Anglo” means British. How come Belize is now in it, and at stake? Let Britain solve their dispute with Guatemala, if there is any. However, they must respcect our territorial integrity and independence too. Belize did not, cannot inherit the dispute. Belize is independent with defined boundaries. United Nations accepted Belize as a nation, because it is a nation, separate from Guatemala. Belize got its independence from England, not from Guatemala.

16. We cannot trust ICJ because they have ulterior interests, backed up by a couple powerful nations who want Belize to be a part of Guatemala.

17. Government of Belize has not had the courage, the “balls” to tell Guatemala in a firm way that their claim is unfounded and void, that Belize will never relinquish a square centimeter of our land. On the contrary, they allow Guatemala to take the initiative to say what will be done.

18. Guatemala failed to ratify the treaty within the stipulated 6 months done in 1862 with the British, and when they did, she (Guatemala) was informed by the British Government that the treaty had lapsed with Guatemala’s failure to meet its requirements and that Great Britain would not comply with it.

Anyway, Belize got its independence from England but IF a crooked, unbiased, unjust decision comes up we will not relinquish our land. We had our independence from England and we will demand it from Guatemala as well. Belize is for Belizeans!!!

Belizeans say no, no, no to ICJ!!!

Re: 20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ [Re: Marty] #533681
12/07/18 06:39 AM
12/07/18 06:39 AM
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 68,932
oregon, spr
Marty Offline OP

Marty  Offline OP
The following is the Anglo - Guatemala Treaty, as was agreed upon by Her Britannic Majesty's Government, and the government of the Republic of Guatemala in 1859.

In 1964, Two High ranking Members of the British Parliament visited Belize and met with the Belize Cabinet.

Among the topics discussed was the Anglo Guatemala Treaty.

IT WAS MADE CLEAR TO US, that, according to this Treaty all points were fulfilled.

Then Hon George Price asked, " What about ARTICLE 7, which Guatemala bases her Claim on because the CART ROAD was not built.

The Senior Member then said, Let us read the entire Article 7.

When we reached to that sentence that reads .


HE THEN STATED, we gave Guatemala access to use all our rivers, in particular, the BELIZE OLD RIVER, to develop the Department of El Peten.

The archives of Belize has all Documents, where 100's of Thousands of Mahogany logs from El Peten, were floated down the Belize Old River for the EXPORT Market in Belize City, and Millions of pounds of Chicle Gum from El Peten, were transported by some 26 River boats with barges, down the Belize Old River.

ON THE RETURN TRIP, up the river, all of the Peten Imports were transported by these boats to San Ignacio, and then transported by MULE PACKS and carried to Flores Peten, The Capital.

Among those merchants in Peten were. The Tajers, the Morfins, the Baldizons, the Cambranes, the Ramirez the Diaz and many others who dealt with the Big Commercial Houses in Belize City.

(My grand parents were engaged in this business and many others.)



(I hope all understand this BIG OLD LIE, against Belize )

[Linked Image]

Hector Silva

Re: 20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ [Re: Marty] #533762
12/12/18 02:17 PM
12/12/18 02:17 PM
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 68,932
oregon, spr
Marty Offline OP

Marty  Offline OP




(This gives credence to the fact that Guatemala will not respect any ICJ RULING. They are not playing marbles for GAME, but for TAKE.)

(SEE translation inserted in the video .)

Re: 20 Reasons to vote NO to the ICJ [Re: Marty] #533862
12/19/18 05:26 AM
12/19/18 05:26 AM
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 68,932
oregon, spr
Marty Offline OP

Marty  Offline OP

Referendum Unit - history of diplomatic efforts to resolve the claim

One of the questions frequently asked when people debate about taking the territorial claim to the ICJ is whether we have exhausted all diplomatic and other attempts to settle the dispute. Representatives of the Referendum Unit discussed this and shared the history of the various diplomatic efforts to resolve the claim. On set:
Ambassador Annie Burns - Referendum Unit, Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Ardelle Sabido - Referendum Unit, Ministry of Foreign Affairs

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