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Posted By: Mermaid Racism - 01/18/02 07:59 PM
The Mermaid has been accused of being racist and granted, perhaps rightly so.

Perhaps its the difference of cultures and not understanding each others stand point clearly; perhaps that is what racism is.

I'm a Belizean and I am thin-skinned about my heritage and so is every one else about their culture.

There is racism every where, whether we want to admit it or not. There is racism on this board all the time.

Read the posts about the Dreadlocks scammers...; the Belizean's this...; the Ex-pats that...

Belize is a melting pot of cultures who seem to get along on the surface. We are not segregated by color of skin, ecomonic standing or anything else.

We are mixed and mixed again, in and around and among each other, from our Prime Minister to the man on Death Row. This is Belize.

So we've 'learned' to live among each other, but to say that Racism does not exist would be a downright lie. Racism exists within the Belizeans themselves, within every race and it's own culture.

If there is anyone out there who can honestly say that they are not racist, or judgemental of another and his culture, let him stand up.

We look different, we think different, we act different and re-act differently:

The White Man will SUE you. The Black Man will SHOOT you. The Spanish Man will CHOP you....

Bottom line, they will ALL destroy you, by the method that is their cultural norm.

Life is a jungle. And it is survival of the fittest, even if we want to pretend it ain't so.
Posted By: Su_Amigo Re: Racism - 01/18/02 08:44 PM
Well said Mermaid, very good food for thought......, I don't see anyone standing yet, I too am guilty of racism and profiling, it's part of life.

I forgot to mention, I'm 1/16 Black, 1/16 Creole, the rest is a mix of Irish, Welsh, German, English and Native American. I had a Black nanny, and I was told that I drank her breast milk.

Albert



[This message has been edited by Su_Amigo (edited 01-18-2002).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/18/02 09:03 PM
that was a nice honest response to posts about you feelings of non-belizians mermaid. and yes, maybe it is true that we are all racist in some way. but i too am a belizian and i may judge people from time to time, but i don't feel it is right. so while you have understood that about yourself and others, maybe you should have included that we should ALL work on that aspect of culture clash. it would surely bring us closer. we all have something to learn from each other. nobody is perfect, but we should always strive to be our best. and i'm sorry, but yes even belizians are segregated to a point. black people in belize are usually poorer than spanish and hold less positions in politics. why even on caye caulker there is a place called "the black neighborhood" on the BACK street full of very low standards of living, while a spanish mermaid has been fortunate enough to own beach front property. it is always important to look at your surrounding and ask what you can do to help. myself included.
Posted By: Mermaid Re: Racism - 01/18/02 11:55 PM
See what I mean folks?

See the racism, quick as that, and among Belizeans themselves?

See how the SPANISH Mermaid (on the beach) has been cut out and seperated from the BLACK neighbourhood (on back street)...

And in all of that there is still a 'holier than thou' attitude.

But that is my point. And it came quicker than expected.

Thanks 'More food'...

Peace.

[This message has been edited by Mermaid (edited 01-18-2002).]
Posted By: GRAFFICE Re: Racism - 01/19/02 02:50 AM
mermaid and albert- points well taken but there is nothing wrong with asking ourselves do we want to continue down this path or at least give a try at being open minded and make our decisions based on what we see within each other rather than forming our opinions from percieved asumptions.

example- i'd rather not be viewed as "just another tourist" while i am there and have people see me for the person i am. i know not everyone will but those that do will meet a new friend for life who's got some things in common with them. duane
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/19/02 03:01 AM
There appears to be a segregation of sorts on the island. The have segment and the have not segment. Poor and Wealthy.

While one may come from and advantaged background and another may not does not mean that they should be treated differently. Their individual actions should dictate the way they are treated.

Because one was not born with land does not make him a lesser person. Though on the other hand because one lives beachfront this does not make them the better person. It instead is all about how each one treats others and what they do in the community with the means that they have.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/19/02 03:06 PM
Hey, no food, in Los Angeles, poor people live in South Central LA and the wealthy live in Beverly Hills too. And the same is true for perhaps EVERY country in the world, not just the microcosm that is Caye Caulker. Unless we become CUBA (and even THERE, the wealthy have and the other's don't), then what you say is reality.

Caye Caulker is the richest village in the entire Central America. This was proven by a scientific UNICEF study and still remains so today.

Look around you, in your neighborhood, and see how many people there work for a living every day. I do.

Our tour guides on this island are some of the best paid people in the entire country of Belize. Many make a minimum of $500 U.S. per week, EVEN THOUGH many have no more than a high school education. Heck, I do not have a college degree myself.

However, there are some tour guides that are wildly successful in their careers, make a ton of money, yet still have no material wealth. Why? Because of what they choose to do with their resources. Some people re-invest money back into other business ventures, others spend their money on traveling and what not, and yet others spend their entire paycheck on boozing and drugs.

Why should those that act prudently with the money that comes their way be made to feel guilty for those that choose to do otherwise with THEIR money?

We did not come from a family of wealth. 25 years ago, everyone on this island were exactly the same. We all went to school barefoot, sat up doing homework under the light of kerosene lanterns, and we all emptied our slop bucket into the sea each morning.

Cheers
Posted By: Bonestalker Re: Racism - 01/19/02 04:10 PM
First I must state what a wonderful read this was. Much mind food. Thanx Mm

You may blink and gasp at this...I feel there may be a good side to racism....the uplifting, warm feeling you can experience when you come to the conclusion you've been wrong most of your life...I've been struck with these emotions more on CC than any place I've ever been.
Posted By: sunshine Re: Racism - 01/19/02 04:12 PM
Well said, Da Mee.
Posted By: Mermaid Re: Racism - 01/19/02 04:49 PM
I disagree that some are born with land and some without.

It has always been my attitude that we were ALL born equal - NAKED - that's all.

It is what WE ourselves make of this life that matters.

The Son of a wealthy family may very well have too much, grow up spoilt and become a Drug Addict and/or a menace to society and [#%!] his life away.

While another Son of a poor family might use his meager struggling family life to MOTIVATE him to do better and be an 'upright and respectable citizen'.

What makes the difference is family life, love and the paths show us by the influencial people in our lives...

And by influencial, I only mean those nearest us who will inevitably pass on the 'attitudes or approach' to life, whether consciously or not...

Our parents, siblings, neighbours, teachers, but most importantly, those of our own culture, where the sense of 'belonging' and 'self worth' first begins.


[This message has been edited by Mermaid (edited 01-19-2002).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/19/02 10:28 PM
hey folks---

i, for one, never considered the remarks by mermaid posted in the "dolphin bay" thread to be racist. i meant to speak up for her earlier but just didn't have time to type the reply i intended till now.

the comments that were singled out: "Helper seems a bit nervous on this board. An ex-pat no doubt." and "Don't mind helper, she seems to be passing off her ingrane First World Phobias here on the board frequently."
strike me as assumptions based on NATIONALISTIC generalizations that we all make about each other. many of these generalizations are benign: "belizeans are friendly and easy-going." "americans are in a hurry even when they are on vacation in paradise." these phrases make no direct reference to anyone's race, and indeed there is no ONE race that represents the population of belize OR the USA. any racist implications anyone takes from those kinds of remarks is purely the result of being processed through that person's own internalized feelings of racism, in my opinion.

we are sometimes divided by less benign nationalistic and classist assumptions and i guess in some ways they are quickly based on the averages of our experiences. on the average, american tourists and expats in belize tend to be caucasians and tend to have more money than many average belizeans. i am by no means wealthy by california standards. the only reason i can travel to belize is because i am single, childless and living in a rent controlled apartment with a roommate for the last 12 years. there are plenty of things many, many americans consider the necessities of life that i do without in order to save money to travel. i am ever so fortunate to have a job that, although low-paying and disrespected, allows me the TIME to travel, to spend lengths of time in belize living simply and making friends that the average resort-dwelling, day trip taking, souvenir buying american tourist doesn't get to do.

i just talked to some people at a channukah party who had just come back from a week in ambergris caye at the most expensive resort. they were the exact embodiment of the type of tourist i hope to never be. they had met no one belizean but their tour guides & hotel staff, they ticked off destinations they hit in a check! check! manner, disparaged some of the differences they saw in belizean culture and generally seemed to have the sort of vacation experience that results in nationalist and yes, even some racist, stereotypes about belizeans as well as some lovely photos for their album.

certain types of travelers like to think of themselves as different from this type of tourist, and ex-pats probably think of themselves as even MORE different than the average american (for example), because they have moved away and given up the american way of living in america. i certainly don't want to be lumped in with resort tourist types, but i don't begrudge anyone in belize their assumptions about me. the fact that i can pick up and travel to belize makes me "richer" and in certain ways more privileged than many belizeans but in reality, it isn't by much! we don't know how many similarities we share until we get to know each other. this is why i have made friends with and keep in contact with a variety of people in belize of a wide range of economic circumstances. for another example, i have a sort of pen-pal/mentor relationship with a high school girl and her baby sister to whom i am something like an adopted auntie who lives far away. i have also severed relationships with a few unnamed people who, after i knew them over time, proved to be people i did not care to associate with. whether that person is of spanish descent, or a straight white american male or a dreaded rasta, i try not to let that affect my response to the next person i meet who may share the same national citizenship, race or economic position. for better or worse i try to get to know people as individuals, and as individuals we are responsible and represent for ouselves by actions and words.

and as far as ex-pat status goes, that is a position of even greater privilege i would never be able to achieve, as willing as i'd be to move to belize permanently; i am just not wealthy enough. i think people in positions of privilege are going to attract the resentments of those who have less and those who see themselves as oppressed or discriminated against. that's just human nature. in this particular case, as much as an ex-pat might like to believe s/he has shaken off the nationalistic stereotypical qualities of the US or europe, s/he still can't begrudge locals for noticing uptight "first world" tendancies when they see them. i also think those same people have no reason to go looking for extra insult where none was intended. if the shoe doesn't fit, don't kick yourself with it.

sorry this is so long, but i've been mulling for several days. mermaid, never stop speaking your mind. that's why we're here.

peace
Posted By: GRAFFICE Re: Racism - 01/19/02 10:47 PM
Oh so very nice BONESTALKER and GOGO! You have both made me feel so great about what I love about Belize, it's culture, and it's people.This has probably been the best thread I have gotten involved with while learning more about Belize and probably more important,learning more about myself and the world I live in. Hope to meet you guys somewhere in our travels!!! Duane
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/20/02 12:25 AM
While doing research on Belize, we came upon this site and thought it would be a good place to learn about Belize for our future retirement. And learn I did.

I never thought I would learn that the Belizeans secretly loathe the tourists that they live off. Nice, friendly, easy going island folk that under that smile seethe at your very existance. How horrid it must be to be an ex-pat there.

My husband and I had planned to go to Caye Chapel for a conference about the country put on by an international magazine. The country sounded delightful and there seemed to be business and investment opportunities in a climate that we would enjoy. Unfortunately, it appears that the weather may be good but the climate otherwise is unfriendly.

We are grateful that we happened upon this site before we went any farther in our plans. We will look elsewhere.
Posted By: Bonestalker Re: Racism - 01/20/02 02:16 AM
Hey gang, How about No Thanks! I think I'm not missing them already.
Posted By: sunshine Re: Racism - 01/20/02 10:09 AM
Soooooooooo glad ´NO THANKS chose to invest elsewhere.

She is the type who comes to RAPE us then turns around and says that we are the ones living off them instead of vice versa.

She is the sort that give EX-PATS the sterotypical bad rap.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/20/02 06:20 PM
mermaid, i know you're flustered, but i think if you reread my post you will see that there is NO 'holier than thou' stand point...i said myself i judge from time to time. and i said myself that we ALL need to look at what we feel is not right and try to do something to help...read the last line- "MY SELF INCLUDED"! what does that mean to you? and i did not prove your point at all. actually i was agreeing with you to a point i said maybe we are all racist sometimes, but where i differed, was when i said that that doesn't mean it is right. my point about the 'spanish mermaid' and the 'black neighborhood' was to help you see that we ARE segregated to a point. sorry if it was a bit feirce. i just want to say also that i for one LOVE ex-pats, LOVE tourists from all different countries and ethnic backrounds, love my creole people, love my spanish people, love my gaurifuna, love my mayans, and everyone else. they teach me so much and baby i want to learn! and i don't even work in the tourism industry imagine that! peace to all....
Posted By: GRAFFICE Re: Racism - 01/21/02 01:03 AM
STILL A GREAT POST AND I AM ALSO THRILLED THAT "NO THANKS" HAS DECIDED TO FIND ANOTHER PLANET!!!WE WILL ALL BE FINE AND GROW FROM THIS DICUSSION.PEACE TO ALL [Linked Image] D
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/22/02 07:08 PM
I went to a birthday party last night for an ex-pat owner of one of the resorts here. I had a great time and it was a great party. Being a local woman, I couldn't help noticing, however, that the only other local people at the party were the handful of employees that work for the gentleman whose birthday it was.

I and my sisters felt like the token local representatives to an otherwise fully ex-pat party. Obviously, the ex-pats had chosen to segregate themselves in their merry-making.

I often wonder why ex-pats who choose to make this island their home do not integrate themselves more with the locals.

Maybe "no thanks" would have been one of those retirees too?

It is just my intuition that integrating and really become a part of the society you live in helps a lot to diffuse culture clashes.

And, as you can see, the discrimination is not all local-oriented.

Cheers,
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/22/02 09:45 PM
i remember 4th of july 2000---to my horror, an ENORMOUS american flag strung from the coco palms in front of the sandbox & trends. <a local guy shimmyed up the trees to hang it where no american could have.> local kids stood in front of it singing the BELIZE national anthem, throwing rocks. <me watching and laughing and laughing.> then heard later that the then owners of the sandbox sponsored no celebrations for belize independance day, that they preferred instead to close . told me something about ex pats & business owners...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/23/02 07:43 AM
Gogo,
4th of July is a U.S. celebration, true. However horrified you were there are many tourists from the U.S. that appreciate celebrating holidays when traveling. As for the closing of the establishment on September 21st this was to allow the staff to celebrate the holiday instead of working.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 01/23/02 07:57 AM
that's nice they got the day off.
Posted By: Ragga Gal Re: Racism - 01/29/02 04:17 AM
Holy Moly, can't we all just get along!!
If I do not want someone to judge me, I better not be judging anyone.Judge and be judged.
This is totally interesting and kind a fun trying to figure out who everyone is.I think I know who a couple of you are, being sisters and all.I look forward to participating a li bit on this board.
Please don't throw insults to people who aren't into understanding they need time to comprehend not fuel for more ignorance. Anyways keep up the good work webpage manager. And HI everyone!
Allie
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 02/08/02 05:32 AM
I was thinking of coming to CC... now that I know "no thanks" won't be there --- I am definitely coming ! ! ! ...

The rest of you sound delightful.
Posted By: Bonestalker Re: Racism - 02/08/02 05:50 AM
Horsefly...U will not regret your decision...if u do...i will buy the next round.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 02/14/02 08:44 PM
Jeesh Gogo! I was there for July 4th 2000. Perhaps you carry your own baggage of "racism" or "nationalism". July 4th is indeed a US holiday. Do you celebrate St. Patricks Day or Cinco de Mayo in the States? The children singing the Belize National Anthem to a flag were just having a grand morning and not throwing rocks at any flag. You made that part up presumably to suit your prejudgements. If you stuck around for the rest of the days festivities you noted that this annual event is for everyones enjoyment and the vast majority of participants are native-born Belizeans. Taking Tom & Mary Joe to task for springing the tab was a cheap shot.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 02/17/02 04:32 PM
I agree with Huh?. I enjoy celebrating the 4th of July on Caye Caulker as well as I enjoy celebrating our Independence Day. The more parties the merrier. We can do St. Patrick's Day too. And Cinco de Mayo! Why not? Let's make everybody happy!

That's my sentiments!

Cheers,
Wendy A.
Posted By: Ragga Gal Re: Racism - 02/20/02 04:09 AM
July 1st is Canada Day! I want that day off!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 02/20/02 09:51 PM
why wasn't this taken off too? along with the "sunset" racist one? mermaid and others really make me sad. i'm all for sticking up for your people, culture and country, but why do these post always come down to WHERE PEOPLE ARE FROM. i mean the other post was about a serious issue. why does it matter where the posts are coming from? if i am from another country, but love caye caulker just as much as a local, does that mean i can't care what happens there? there are thousands of belizeans in the united states and other people from all around the world. i WELCOME them and would hope they would want to consider it their country and get involved and want to see better things for all of our children. why can't this be true in belize mermaid? i know it sounds as though some people preach, but maybe listening we can all learn something helpful. i'm not talking about changing culture, but when it comes to the environment, that does not belong to any one country or person, it belongs to the world. and we should all care about what happens to it. even if it took someone from another country to bring the subject up. tourists don't bring all the trash like you implied. i love caye caulker so much it hurts. i have never felt this way about any place, person, or thing. and i too am protective of it, but i believe others deserve to see such a magical place and get a chance to feel the same way. i know you want tourists there, for the obvious reasons, but try not to think of people as tourists so much. thank you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 02/20/02 11:06 PM
Dear sensorship:

When a discussion becomes an argument that starts to get out of hand, its time for a time out. That is where that Sunset thread was going.

1. Giving suggestions is quite OK. Giving your personal opinion of something is quite OK. Insulting a whole race or group of people because YOU (and I mean you - John or Jane Doe poster) have a problem is NOT OK.

2. It was out of line for the "Sunset" poster to call everybody on Caye Caulker the vile names he / she did. As well as it was out of line for responders to automatically assume the poster was American, thus giving a license to go into an "Anti-American' tirade.

3. If we want to talk about flush toilets, waste disposal, water system, civic pride and garbage pick-up on the island, let's do so, but let's please do so without being culture race or heritage-bashing.

Cheers,
Wendy A.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 02/21/02 09:11 PM
well thank you, that was my point as well. nowhere did i say that it was okay to lable caye caulker residents or anyone else for that matter, i was simply saying that we should be able to discuss our concerns about caye caulker because we ALL care about her. it should matter where we come from or if we are local or not. that was what i was getting at with you sister, because she seemed to think that just because someone offers advice on how to keep caye caulker beautiful and healthy, the are foriegn "preachers" but the fact is, recycling is a good idea ANYWHERE, and it shouldn't matter who brought the idea up. thank you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 03/06/02 03:30 AM
Wendy/Mermaid why do you keep some sites open, so you can go on about you and your viewpoint? Isn't this for everybody or you edit when you are bored? Want to keep tourists around so delete the message warning about the rapist. The next girl that is molested is on your head cause you know what is up with him. Shame on you. Might as well delete this too.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 03/06/02 05:22 PM
Dear Full of You:

Please let me share some things with you:

1. I am NOT Mermaid.
2. I am NOT the moderator of the board, although I will strongly recommend the deletion of posts that are catty and unsuitable, libelous, and just plain outright lies, yes.
3. I was taken aback that the "Rapist" thread had been deleted, and went back through the postings of the last 100 days to make sure what you were saying is true. Obviously, it is.
4. I am as sad as you that the post has been deleted (not by me), because, yes, I find it informative and cautionary to others who might be traveling here.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Wendy A.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 03/08/02 12:09 AM
Sometimes on this board there are things said about people that may not be the nicest things to hear, but they are people opinions or things that they believe to be true. most of the time we do not know if they are true or not. how can we? i thank Mermaid for leaving up the post having to deal with her and racism.

[This message has been edited by Mermaid (edited 06-05-2002).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 03/08/02 10:05 PM
obviously gogo needs something to occupy her time, no one wants to read your drawn out west coast speech over the internet.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 06/05/02 04:33 PM
somehow this post seems relevant again.
Posted By: Mermaid Re: Racism - 06/05/02 11:11 PM
The posts most likely to be edited or deleted from the board are those that include NAME CALLING.

Many slanderous comments are made on this board that wrongfully tarnishes or defames the character of a person.

It is my opinion that comments, warnings, opinions, messages can be contributed eloquently enough that there is no need for name calling.

I encourage you to use language as a tool, not a weapon.

For those who want to rage war instead of peace, this is not the place for you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 06/05/02 11:19 PM
People have been accused of crimes on this board - stealing, rape, physical abuse etc..

While these are excellent topics of conversation, I don't believe that one-man judge, jury & sentence Trials should be performed on this board.

For allegations of a crime, head for the judicial system and go to trial.

A man/woman is INNOCENT until proven guilty (in a court of law)!

For those accusing people of crimes, remember that Defamation of Character is also a crime.
Posted By: memingwa Re: Racism - 06/06/02 09:19 AM
It seems to me that as long as we talk about these matters as honestly as we are able, then there is hope for those of us who want/need that hope. When we stop talking and thinking and "comparing notes" and decide that we are as good as we're going to get, then that is truly dangerous.

And as long as we are aware of our own biases, and wish to not ACT on those biases, then we are more a part of the solution than of the problem.

As sev'l of you have said, we ALL have some sort of bias to overcome. Once we choose to not act within those limits, and choose to think about it, talk about it, open ourselves to another view, or any person or group different than ourselves, we are then acting to end the "ism" in ourselves. For each of us that works to be better, there is another person who may see us do that and think, "maybe I could look at that..."

As "No Thanks" illustrated so well, when we meet a few who act & believe in a way we do not like, and we decide that all those who are similar to that person are the SAME as that person, then we are choosing to live within those self-imposed limits. Should we choose that, we can never "free" anyone, much less ourselves. Reba
Posted By: Enigma Re: Racism - 06/09/02 11:49 PM
I'm absolutely amazed at the scale of human emotion displayed in this topic, and the variety of viewpoints.

What is racism really? I'd like to hear how many definitions we could come up with.

My own beliefs about racism stem from being brought up in the south of the U.S.A. I heard about it and lived around it my whole life. There it was about color, and some people's "perceived" idea that being another color other than white meant you were lower class. My personal viewpoint is that is pure hogwash and shows definite ignorance on the person perceiving.
I find that people who share this particular viewpoint of racism, have a lower level of intelligence. Not that they don't have value, they are simply ignorant and don't know any better.

One of the most striking things I observed on my very first visit to Belize was how multi-cultural it was, and how well everyone got along. Of course that was a tourists viewpoint then.
I ended up moving here 4 years later and after 3 years of living here it is true that not all get along. Although the problems seem minor compared to the large scale racism I've witnessed in the states.

Am I a racist? I hope not. I don't think I am, but after reading this topic, I realize that there are many different views on what racism is. I've examined my thoughts on color, cultural, etc., and have decided these are my viewpoints:

*I have absolutely no problem with color. That is genetic, derived from your parents and you have no say in the matter, so why should anyone be punished or ridiculed or shunned because of their heritage?

*I have no problem with culture. That's geography. It's what makes the world an interesting place. Think how boring the world would be if we were all carbon copies of one another BORING!

*I have no problem with social status. Some people are more fortunate than others. Some are born into families that live well and some are not. Life is not a restaurant...you don't order up household to be born in to from a menu. You get what you get. As a child you endure and live with what you get.
When grow up, if you are not satified with what you got, then you seek and aquire something better. There is nothing wrong with that. Bettering yourself is a challenge of your character. Some succeed and some don't.

Some of the things I have trouble dealing with here are: (keep in mind this does not apply to all people here)

*I have met a lot of hard working people. There are some though that always want more. Nothing wrong with that. Problem is, they don't want to work for it, they think someone else should pass it on to them, make their life easy. What REALLY get's my goat is that no matter how much you do for them or how much you go out on a limb for them, they always expect more...like you owe them or something!

*Finding someone that will give you a full 8 hour days worth of work is hard. People here work differently than they do in the states.
In the states, you MUST show up for work everyday that you are scheduled. You MUST clock in. You MUST take your two 15 minute breaks when the boss says you can. You MUST take your measley 30 minute lunch when it is your turn. You MUST do the duties of your job description without fail or you will be fired! ETC,ETC,ETC
People here are NOT used to working that way.
That is part of what makes Belize the laid back place it is. If you run a business here and expect local people to work for you like U.S. employees do, you have another thing coming! It's very frustrating in terms of business to get things done in the manner and speed you are accustomed to.
Is it there fault? Of course not!
It doesn't bother them at all. They have been living this way for a very long time.
It only bothers the American that is trying to run a business in Belize, like he was still living in the states, LOL.
If you let it stress you out, you are fighting a losing battle.
Will they change?? Why should they?
The only time I have ever seen work ethic change here is in someone who has left Belize and moved to the states for awhile and were forced to adapt to the different style of employment in order to survive.

In my mind, the only racism I know in myself is pure aggrivation for people who don't try.
It's not about color, culture, geography or anything else. It's about doing the best you can do to be a productive citizen no matter where you are from. It is about treating people the way you would want to be treated. Fair and equal treatment of all people, taking into consideration that person's limitations. Each and everyone of us while in the womb are the same.
From the day we are born, our lives are molded and shaped by our surroundings.
When we are grown, depending on circumstances, personality and sheer stamina, determines what we as adults will do to better ourselves. Some people are real fighters and have been properly educated enough to improve their situations. Others are not so lucky, but it doesn't mean they are any less of a person or that they shouldn't receive the same treatment as anyone else.

A lot of things frustrate me here, but when I really stop to think about it, it's usually MY problem and not the other person's. It is usually because I'm expecting THEM to be MORE than what they are willing to give or are able to give.

I have to remind myself that I AM the one that wanted the laid back lifestyle, so I HAVE to learn to deal with it, not anyone else.

One of the things that local and Belizean people complain a lot about is Americans that come here and try to change things into the way it's done in the states. And I agree.
The old saying "When in Rome, do as the Roman's do" applies.
If you move to Belize, you must be willing to do things their way, otherwise, what's the point of moving in the first place?

Geeezz, I need something to drink. LOL
Have a wonderful Belizean day, Folks!

P.S. Just a quick note about that American flag thing. *grumble, grumble*
Remember there is a huge population of Belizeans living abroad in the states. Lot's in Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and other places. I don't think anyone complains when they hang the Belizean flag and have celebrations for Belizean holidays.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
That is another one of those "Fair Treatment" issues. :-)
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 06/10/02 04:10 PM
It certainly is an enigma, Enigma. But your analysis of the various situations is dead on in my humble opinion. Thank you for your clear reasoning... I really enjoyed that read.

I have lived in other Caribbean countries and I remember that it was necessary to do it their way if you didn't want to fail in your adventure or endeavour.

It took about 6 months for me to come around to the thinking that the North American way just didn't have any place in my newly chosen home. I did it their way and it worked just fine.

As you have said, why try to change it to the American or Canadian ways of living when you left all of that to enjoy a different lifestyle. Kind of defeating the purpose isn't it?

Have another beautiful day in "paradise".
Jim


[This message has been edited by Sandcrab (edited 06-10-2002).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 06/10/02 04:48 PM
Enigma and Jim, thanks for expressing so well the trials and tribulations the island people face. These "investors" come here meeting lobster traps being pulled up on the beaches by the local fishermen, and then later want to lobby for rules that will ban fishing traps from the public view. They will come and meet small struggling mom and pop businesses, and then turn around and lobby for legislation to eliminate mom and pop businesses for one reason or another. One gets the feeling that the only folks that should be making a living should be the big businesses. Why should the local folks have to give up their $200 a week in favor of their $200 hr? I have no problem with anyone that buys a piece of this jewel paving their property and turning their little square piece into Disneyworld if that is what they choose. I have a real problem with them trying to force everyone else to also become Disneyworld. All the world does not want a paved street. Some of us like sand streets, some of us like the fishing industry and some of us mom and pop businesses need to be nurtured to grow, not legislated out of business in the best interest of big business.

When one stands up for his local culture, he is labeled racist and anti-foreigner. Yet, these same labelers are the biggest racists, they are all anti-locals. They are the only ones that do not seem to see it.

I have heard many of the big business owners on the island refer coldly and callously to islanders as "stupid, uneducated, etc. etc. etc. Yet, it is these same people that want you to believe that they have the best interest of the locals at heart, when the only best interest they have at heart is the fattness of their wallets.

Most of these big business owners if you spoke with them privately will tell you in no uncertain terms that they are here to make money only. If converting the island into Disneyworld is what it will take to bring more money into their pockets, then that is what they are prepared to do. Who cares about the local people and their way of life? That doesn't count to them in the big scheme of things.

Signed: deeply and passionately pro-local
Posted By: TONY Re: Racism - 06/25/02 03:06 AM
First of all, thanks to everyone for a great overall discussion. We will be arriving in CC sometime the 30th of July for 4 or 5 days of rest and fun before exploring the rest of Belize. Your debates have increased our excitement and anticipation of visiting your community. Both of us have lived and done challenging volunteer assignments in several African Nations/Communites. I worked in a Black township in which I was the only white face living amongst 1/2 million people. I participated in a community health outreach/assesment program which sought to provide support for individuals dying of AIDS. Needless to say life became overwhelming at times. What stays in my soul was the experience of holding a young school teacher in my arms as she lay dying. Everyone was afraid to touch her for fear of contracting the disease.....so she was spending her last moments on earth alone and abandoned. She grabbed my hand and held it with a feirce grip and we looked deep into each others eyes......no words....just two human beings sustaining, comforting one another in the most profound and immediate of existential moments. Rascism is the fear of others and the fear of embracing the other. Whether my skin is a different colour is irrelevant because our hearts beat the same and we must all, rich or poor, educated or uneducated, face suffering in life. Is it not essential to cultivate and practise compassion for all living beings? We should celebrate the beauty of our colours, our cultures, our communties and take pride in our efforts to sustain justice and fairness in our communities. This desire to create a positive and healthy loving communtiy is obvious in the diversity and tension of your debate........we truly look forward to meeting some of you....thanks
Love and Peace, Tony and Myrna
Canada
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Racism - 06/25/02 04:27 AM
you 2 should change your names 2 alice in wonderland.

you will understand once u get here and really talk 2 locals.

sorry...
Posted By: Capt. Bill Re: Racism - 06/25/02 10:57 PM
No Thanks..statement is narrow minded. All locals consider tourist a pain in the butt in one way or another. Thats life. People just make the best out of it...as it should be.
Live and let live. As long as people talk there is a chance for peace.
Keep the faith and talk to your fellow neighbor...all will go well.
Regards,
Bill
Posted By: TONY Re: Racism - 06/26/02 08:52 PM
Dear friends, please notice that we meant to say that it is important to TRY to practise compassion. Obviously we live in what might be described as an imperfect world. Injustice and inequality seem to be the reality for most of humanity. We have witnessed these injustices directly but that does not neccessarily mean that we should fall prey to cynicism or hoplessness. If we participate positvely and with determination in the struggle not only to defeat the injustices around us, but also the struggle for awareness and understanding within then perhaps we are walking the best of paths in this life. We are quite use to cynical reactions to our views.........our response to the cynical perspective is to issue you the challenge of actually trying to act positively and with insight in this crazy complex world. There is a vital and important place in this world for the idealistic perspective coupled with solid critical thinking. .......but maybe we could continue this debate over some beers in July? Iam sure we won't be hard to miss being the overly idealistc dreaded "tourists" that you seem to think we are.
Cheers from Canada........TONY
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