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Posted By: Amanda Syme DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/06/08 08:00 PM
DALLAS, Aug 5 (Reuters) - Texas defied the World Court and executed a Mexican national by lethal injection on Tuesday over the objections of the international judicial body and neighboring Mexico.

Jose Medellin, 33, was pronounced dead at 9:57 p.m. CDT (0257 GMT) in the state's death chamber in Huntsville, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice said.

He had been condemned for the 1993 rape and murder of 16-year-old Elizabeth Pena in Houston and lost his bid late Tuesday for a last-minute stay from the U.S. Supreme Court.

The World Court last month ordered the U.S. government to "take all measures necessary" to halt the upcoming executions of five Mexicans including Medellin's on the grounds that they had been deprived of their right to consular services after their arrests.

Medellin's execution is sure to anger neighboring Mexico and analysts have said it could make life rough for Americans arrested abroad if other countries decide to evoke the U.S. example and deprive them of their right to consular services.

This typically means diplomats will visit and provide legal advice to their nationals being held by authorities.

The Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles had recommended that the state's Republican governor Rick Perry not grant a temporary reprieve, paving the way for Medellin's execution.

Texas, which executes far more convicts than any other U.S. state, had taken the view that the brutal nature of Medellin's crimes rendered him unfit for a reprieve or lesser sentence.

The World Court's jurisdiction also does not reach Texas, a state where authorities generally don't like outsiders telling them what to do.

The political fall-out from the Medellin and related cases has reached the White House and the U.S. Supreme Court.

U.S. President George W. Bush directed his native Texas to comply with a World Court ruling in 2004 mandating review of the cases of Medellin and other Mexicans in U.S. prisons awaiting execution. The U.S. Supreme Court said in March Bush's action had exceeded his authority.

The government of Mexico sent the U.S. State Department a diplomatic note of protest, expressing "its concern for the precedent" that the case "may create for the rights of Mexican nationals who may be detained in that country."

CHILLING CRIME

The June 1993 crime for which Medellin was condemned was chilling. According to the Texas Attorney General's office, Pena and her 14-year-old companion, Jennifer Ertman, were walking home when they encountered a gang initiation.

Medellin and his fellow gang members sexually assaulted, beat and strangled the two girls. When their badly decomposed bodies were finally recovered, they could only be identified by dental records. Medellin was only convicted of Pena's murder.

Speaking to Reuters in the Mexican border town of Nuevo Laredo, Medellin's aunt Reyna Armendariz, 45, said:

"He was a normal, happy kid ... They don't have the right to take his life away, we acknowledged that he committed a crime but make him pay with a life sentence," she said.

In his last statement Medellin said: "I am sorry my actions caused pain." He had no last meal request, which is a ritual of U.S. executions.

Medellin was the fifth inmate executed in Texas so far this year and the 410th put to death since 1982, when the state resumed executions six years after the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment.

Texas currently has 14 more executions scheduled for this year and one early in 2009.

Seventeen executions have now been carried out in the United States since the Supreme Court in April lifted an unofficial moratorium on the death penalty when it rejected a challenge to the three-drug cocktail used in most lethal injections.
Posted By: Otteralum Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/06/08 10:24 PM
I'm not a fan of the death penalty, but I'm even less a fan of a "world court" having any jurisdiction whatsoever in the U.S.
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/06/08 10:46 PM
More importantly, DO NOT RAPE AND MURDER TEENAGERS.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 03:02 AM
Sad commentary all around
Posted By: H20dog Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 03:21 AM
Lethal injection is too good for this animal! Who the hell is the world court....they can kiss my..................
Posted By: SP Daily Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 03:24 AM
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord...Romans 12:19-21
Posted By: Ernie B Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 03:31 AM
Geeze !
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 03:50 AM
From the description of the crime, the Death Penalty is appropriate! This can be a debate forever on whether "the death penalty is a deterrent", but in this case, it fits more "an eye for an eye": Brutal and senseless! IMO, the others should have received the same fate! No, I'm not a proponent of the death penalty, but there are cases where I believe it applies.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 04:40 AM
Say what you will about the death penalty, to me this is just another case of people not knowing all the facts before jumping to the conclusion that the action must be correct or it wouldn't have been taken.
This execution was in violation of the Vienna Convention, a treaty this country signed several decades ago. By choosing to ingore a treaty the United States agreed to abide by, the Texas state government has placed at risk United States citizens detained all over the world. It has also undermined the US's ability to call for anyone else to abide by promises made by their governments. And for what? Vengence? Ghandi had it right: "An eye for an eye soon leaves everyone blind."


Also not mentioned in the "description of the crime" is the fact that Mr. Medillan was barely 18 years old at the time of the offenses. Even if there were absolutely no errors made in his trial, there is no escaping the fact that but for a matter of months, he would not have been eligible for execution. Unless you've actually read something about this case, you really have no idea what the facts of this case entail...
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 04:58 AM
Leah-Ann, I said "From the description of the crime, the Death Penalty is appropriate": no I have not researched this case, but if you wish to debate it, I will be glad to.

How can the Vienna Convention apply to an American citizen in the US? If it does apply, then he was not a citizen! Was he here legally or illegally? Makes a huge difference! Legally he may have a right to Consulate advice. Here illegally and he has no rights except "Miranda". If I were illegally in another Country and committed a crime, I would not expect the American Embassy to come to my rescue. I said "committed a crime"!

I must research further if you wish to debate the issue, but now is bed time for "Bonzo"! Tomorrow will be a beautiful day.
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 06:04 PM
Some will continue to call it vengence, some will call it justice. Will it serve as a deterrent? It will to the guy who was put to sleep. He was put to sleep with a drug cocktail, in contrast to being choked to death with a shoelace, he got a bargain. Since our constitution mandates the serapation of church and state, and leaves the death penalty up to state descretion, 'vengence is mine' is a moo point...you know like a cow's opinion, it doesn't count. (credit to "Joey" of Friends) And nobody can blame President Bush for this, he tried to intervene and got slapped down.
Posted By: pugwash Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 06:23 PM
Medellin was a Mexican national who moved to the US at age 3 according to some reports or 9 according to others.

There seems to be no dispute as to his guilt with regard to the charges levied, and any objections with regard to procedures seem to come from those who have objections to the death penalty for ANY crime.

He admitted the crime, and not only did not seek consular consultation during his pre-trial or trial hearings, he did not disclose his nationality until well after his arrest and pre trial. Access to the Mexican Consul would have no bearing on a Texas courts ability or right to prosecute him.

He was above the age of majority at the time the crime was committed.

While his attorney was below par at best, and incompetent at worst, all 5 co-defendants were also found guilty and have either been executed, are on death row or for 2 who were minors at the time of the rape and murder, are serving 40 years

If you oppose the death penalty, state your case, but please do not make a martyr out of this evil man.

Below is a full account for those who would like more information

HUNTSVILLE, Texas - Condemned prisoner Jose Medellin looked to the federal courts to keep him from the death chamber Tuesday for his part in the gang rape, beating and strangling of two teenage girls 15 years ago.

The Mexican-born Medellin, 33, faced lethal injection in a case that has drawn international attention after he raised arguments he wasn't allowed to consult the Mexican consulate for legal help after he was arrested in the girls' murders.

Late Monday, Medellin was moved from death row at a prison outside Livingston to Huntsville, where he would be the fifth Texas inmate executed this year. His transfer came after the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles rejected requests for clemency and a reprieve.

"The board's action is against the interests of the nation and risks the safety of thousands of American traveling and living abroad," said Donald Donovan, one of Medellin's lawyers, referring to the warning by the U.S. Embassy in Mexico of possible protests there Tuesday. "We must now rely on the U.S. Supreme Court to prevent Texas from breaking a commitment made by the president and Senate on behalf of the country as a whole."

The International Court of Justice, also known as the World Court, has said Medellin and some 50 other Mexicans on death row around the nation should have new hearings in U.S. courts to determine whether a 1963 treaty was violated during their arrests. Medellin is the first among them who is set to die.

His attorneys contend he was denied the protections of the Vienna Convention, which calls for people arrested to have access to their home country's consular officials.

President Bush has asked states to review the cases, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled earlier this year that neither the president nor the international court can force Texas' hand. Medellin's supporters say Congress or the Texas Legislature should be given a chance to pass a law setting up procedures for new hearings before he is executed.

Gov. Rick Perry, the Texas courts and the state attorney general say the execution should be carried out. The Texas Attorney General's Office urged the Supreme Court to reject the appeals, saying the execution "fully complies with international law" and noting that the justices already have ruled that the International Court of Justice's decisions are not U.S. law and not binding on American courts.

On Monday, Medellin's lawyers asked the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for a reprieve and for permission to file new appeals on his behalf. They also awaited word from the Supreme Court, which they asked on Friday to halt the execution until legislation can be passed to formalize the case reviews.

Trial testimony showed Medellin was the first of six members of a street gang to start attacking the girls.

They were drinking after initiating a new member and intercepted 16-year-old Elizabeth Pena and 14-year-old Jennifer Ertman, who were taking a shortcut home across a railroad bridge in Houston. The gang members attacked the girls for an hour before strangling them and letting their bodies decompose in a field. Their remains were found four days later.

Medellin contends he never was advised by prosecutors or police of his right as a detained foreign national to seek consular assistance, depriving him of legal assistance that Mexico could have provided.

"That's a last-stop measure they're trying to use," Mark Vinson, a now-retired former Harris County assistant district attorney who prosecuted Medellin, said Monday. "Mr. Medellin raised that issue before the trial. In pre-trial he didn't raise the issue. And he didn't raise the issue during the trial.

"If he had raised the issue at his probable cause hearing, the court would have complied. And it was never raised."

In the Supreme Court filing, Medellin's lawyers never mention the crime.

"They don't care about Jennifer. They don't care about Elizabeth," said Randy Ertman, father of one of the victims.

Ertman planned to be in the death chamber Tuesday to see Medellin die. He made a similar trip in 2006 when Derrick O'Brien became the first of the gang members to be executed.

The death sentences of two others, Efrain Perez and Raul Villarreal, were commuted to life in prison when the Supreme Court barred executions for those who were 17 at the time of their crimes.

A fourth, Peter Cantu, described by authorities as the ringleader, is on death row but no execution date has been set.

The sixth person convicted, Medellin's brother, Vernancio, was 14 at the time and is serving a 40-year prison term.

Mexico, which has no death penalty, initially sued the United States in the World Court in 2003. It and other opponents of capital punishment have sought to use the court to fight for foreigners facing execution in the U.S.

At least six other Mexican nationals have been executed in Texas since 1982, when the state resumed carrying out capital punishment.
Posted By: LaurieMar Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 06:45 PM
He was here illegally. I have no mercy for this kind of stuff.
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 08:04 PM
Thank you Pug! That makes it very clear and I see no basis for a debate.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 08:43 PM
Good job, pug at least you took the time to look it up -
azbob, my point had nothing to do with a debate over the efficacy of the death penalty - there is nothing to debate there, no one even tries to argue it is a deterrent. My point was that it would make sense to actually know something about an issue before voicing an opinion on it. Of course that's just my approach, not everyone agrees. wink
pug, a martyr he is not, nor was he a "man" at the time the offenses were committed. However your statement about whether access to a Mexican Consular would have made a difference is a statement only of your opinion, as there a several legal issues at stake. Moreover, while the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government could not interfere with state decisions in this matter, that does not negate the fact that the Texas state government violated a treaty this nation agreed to abide by. That the potential exists for very serious consequences to result from Texas' choice cannot be denied.
Dutch, I completely agree. What the bible has to say about vengence is not relevant to what the government determines is a correct course of action. Whether there is any real value to vengence is an entirely different discussion.
Posted By: iluvbelize Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by Leah-Ann
My point was that it would make sense to actually know something about an issue before voicing an opinion on it. Of course that's just my approach, not everyone agrees.


Now that's funny.
Posted By: KC Jayhawk Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:08 PM
I guess we've now heard from "everyone"! whistle
Posted By: elbert Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:18 PM
ahem.....Did someone say Texas?
Posted By: pugwash Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by Leah-Ann
Good job, pug at least you took the time to look it up -

Well that was kind of patronizing! Most of my posts are well thought out and researched, except when I'm specifically trying to be annoying wink

Originally Posted by Leah-Ann
nor was he a "man" at the time the offenses were committed.

the voting age in the US is 18,(even for Illegal Aliens wink ) as is the age of Criminal Responsibility, and the Age of majority, which may be lowered for married or armed services members; The age of consent seems to vary with state or territory, being only 14 in Samoa or Puerto Rico.

Although the same sphere of political influence that would allow children to control their own bodies independent of parental wishes at age 12 or over would extend juvenile punishment guidelines seemingly ad infinitum, one has to ask if the age to murder and use the "I'm only a kid" defense is now 25, or if that age counts as a "child" only for socialized medical care?
Posted By: elbert Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:43 PM

Where does this 'no death penalty' come from its not Muslim, not Jewish. Isn't it just Christians that feel this way? They are about 30% of the world population and among that 30% more than half are pro death penalty. How did the World Court get to this opinion?
Posted By: pugwash Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:47 PM
Have I ever mentioned "The Judges"
Posted By: elbert Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:51 PM
am I off topic ?
sorry
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:56 PM
Leah-Ann, are you picking on me? :" Good job, pug at least you took the time to look it up -
azbob, my point had nothing to do with a debate over the efficacy of the death penalty - there is nothing to debate there, no one even tries to argue it is a deterrent. My point was that it would make sense to actually know something about an issue before voicing an opinion on it. Of course that's just my approach, not everyone agrees."

I take this to mean that I should "actually know something about an issue before voicing an opinion on it". My first comment WAS REGARDING THE DEATH PENALTY: "From the description of the crime, the Death Penalty is appropriate! This can be a debate forever on whether "the death penalty is a deterrent", but in this case, it fits more "an eye for an eye": Brutal and senseless! IMO, the others should have received the same fate! No, I'm not a proponent of the death penalty, but there are cases where I believe it applies."

Now, where in the above statement of my opinion, do I say anything about the "World Court or the Vienna Convention"? NOWHERE!
I said if you wish to debate the Vienna Convention, then I will research and respond.

MY comment regarding the "DEATH PENALITY" has been researched and I am allowed to give my OPINION! FGS, look at the comments prior to mine!

AGAIN, I ASK: ARE YOU PICKING ON ME? IF YOU ARE, I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY! In our other exchanges, have I shown a lack of research in my response??????

Looking forward to your response.

Bob
Posted By: pugwash Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 09:59 PM
Not at all Elbert; every thing leads back to activist judges; the laws of any country are subject to ongoing revision when judges enact law instead of administering it, and letting (in the case of the USA) congress write the laws.
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 10:00 PM
Researched and thought out!!
Posted By: pugwash Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 10:07 PM
Gee Thanks Azbob....

She's on vacation with a case of wine, Wi-Fi and no trial schedule to keep her busy: I hope you're ready.....

I'm heading to Best Buy for another stick of RAM. wink
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 10:43 PM
This brings back strange memories. It seems like this has happened before in another time and space! Batten the hatches!

PS: Raised in Cajun country, but do you know where I was born?
Yep, TEXAS and the name of this thread is WHAT?
Posted By: deadserious Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/07/08 10:55 PM
The Vienna Convention certainly would not apply in this situation, however their sausages may... I'll get back to you after some further research into it.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:12 AM
ick, I never liked those tiny little sausages!
pug, ya know, sometimes I just can't win, I certainly would not patronize you, I just meant that unlike others you had taken the time to find out the facts of the case.
azbob, I am not picking on you - I just had the misfortune of posting after your post. How on earth did everyone get so thin-skinned around here? However, as you asked, yes I do believe there have been instances where you have expressed an opinion without knowing very much about the topic - in this case I surmised that the only thing you knew about the facts of the crimes were those stated in the initial post in this thread. Yet knowing nothing else you eagerly voiced your opinion that the death penalty was appropriate. I did preface my comment with the statement that it seemed "to me" that it would be helpful to know something first, then form an opinion. But again - that is just my opinion. You are 100% correct, you are entitled to post your opinion no matter what. So is anyone else. I would never take the position that someone should not post an opinion anywhere they want, even if their opinion differed from the majority of those posting on a particular thread, say one on war something like that.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:34 AM
deadserious, check out Article 36 of the Vienna Convention while you're having your snack. The convention most certainly would apply in this case.
Posted By: azbob Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:38 AM
Thank you Leah-Ann. Enjoy Maine!!!
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:39 AM
LA-I looked up article 36 and it pertains to POWs and specifically those who are who ministers or chaplins...help a guy out.
Posted By: Ernie B Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:40 AM
CRAP !
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:42 AM
LA-Nevermind. Checked another website.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:45 AM
Dutch, article 36 reads differently on different sites?
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 02:53 AM
No, just a bad reference I think.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 03:00 AM
ah, so you were able to find an appropriate site?

azbob, you're welcome? and thanks, we are enjoying it! smile
Posted By: petebarb Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 03:04 AM
Love thie Teaxs no. And allway will be in Hoston 1920
Pete
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 03:05 AM
Still reading it, but it's a little confusing because they start the numbers over, apparently with new 'annexes'.
Posted By: Dutch Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 03:14 AM
LA-duh, was looking at Geneva convention. That's why I'm not lawyer...that and my high moral standards! ;-)
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 03:16 AM
wink
Posted By: deadserious Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Leah-Ann
deadserious, check out Article 36 of the Vienna Convention while you're having your snack. The convention most certainly would apply in this case.


Article 36 would apply to the denial of access of the Diplomats, not to the execution of a foreign national.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 05:46 PM
That is correct. It is my understanding access was denied at all times prior to execution. Had access been granted as required by the convention, the results may have been different. Perhaps not, but perhaps - who knows how things would have turned out had effective counsel been afforded - I'm not talking about a walk, but certainly an outcome other than the death penalty. Again, any way you slice it, Texas violated a treaty the US had agreed to abide by, opening up possibility of retaliation by other nations holding US citizens in custody whether they are being held justifiably or not.
Posted By: pugwash Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 06:12 PM
My feeling is that timing was the issue: had the State of Texas granted access prior to the appeals stage, all conventions would have been adhered to, and if we are to judge by the sentences of the other 5 defendants, the result would have been unlikely to change.

Once the World Court started trying to give Texas, and by definition, the US its edicts, then the issue became one of jurisdiction in the big picture and not in the case of one individual...a slippery slope.

Did he kill...yes: was he tried, sentenced and executed according to the laws of the state within which the crime was committed...yes: will there be negative connotations for Americans abroad in future...probably: does Mexico hold its Law Enforcement and Courts systems to the same high standards that the USA does.....that would require a whole other thread!
Posted By: Bobber Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 06:17 PM
I seem to remember, from years back, a term "Mexican Justice". It was used to describe execution on the spot for anyone caught in various criminal acts. IMHOP, justice was done in this case.
Posted By: divingcowgirl Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 06:21 PM
*note to self..... don't mess up in a foreign country*
Posted By: krehfish Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 06:25 PM
...and that includes Texas
Posted By: divingcowgirl Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 06:31 PM
Well, since I live here, I might have SOME leeway in that regards. However, "eye for eye, Tooth for tooth I say"....
Posted By: Bobber Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 06:54 PM
Reading the article again, I see the name of the victim, "Pena". Hmm, Mexican descent most likely. Legal or illegal? What difference does that make? ABSOLUTELY NONE. Why should it make any difference in his case? One more scumbag responsible for his actions. This is just political fodder. I see people arguing about his "rights", I see no one concerned about the victims rights. Oh, yeah, she is dead. Now he is also dead.
Posted By: Leah-Ann Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 07:44 PM
pug, I would agree - it is an issue of timing. The request was that since the state of Texas had not followed the treaty agreed to by the US government before starting the legal process, the process should begin again, with all of the rules being followed. That is no different from what is required by any court in this nation when our own legal rules are not followed. Why should it have been any different simply because the US or a US state did not author the Vienna Convention? We did after all promise to abide by it. Since when do we judge our own conduct by the conduct of others? Now that is a slippery slope.

As for the use of the death penalty in general, I think it is extremely simplistic to say one executed "got what he deserved." You know absolutely nothing about this person, his potential for change and contribution, his level of culpability in the offenses, and as it is my guess you have never witnessed an execution, you have no idea the brutality entailed, irrespective of the method used. Another human being - one of us - died. That did not bring back his victim, it did not offer any long-term comfort to the victim's family, it left another family of victims to grieve the loss of their child, and all without the benefit of having done what we as a nation promised we would do. Exactly when is it ok to go back on your word? As long as the ends justifies the means? As I stated initially, a sad commentary all around...
Posted By: iluvbelize Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 07:52 PM
I am no proponent of a death penalty due to the poor state of the US justice system and the dearth of competent legal counsel available to defend those charged with crimes. However, the murderer/rapist the subject of this thread chose to commit these crimes in the State of Texas, and should be, and was, tried, convicted and disposed of according to Texas law. Questions as to what may or may not have happened after he commited these crimes that he clearly admitted to commiting, are immaterial. Might as well ask "What if he was a decent human being and never chose to commit these crimes?".
Posted By: LaurieMar Re: DO NOT mess with Texas - 08/08/08 10:56 PM
LA, I am hard core on this one and think "he did get what he deserved". Zero tolerance, treaty, no treaty, etc.
It was a heinous act he comitted, beyond reprehensible.
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