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Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce

Posted By: Marty

Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/29/03 02:12 PM

Dear Members,

The Minister of Transportation, Area Representative, Mayor, Town Board,
Traffic Committee, Transport Office have all agreed on the importance of a
complete "Re-Registration" census of all vehicles on the island.
Our Mayor, Elsa Paz, met with me yesterday and is willing to provide the
Transport Wardens, and secretarial help once this is planned and scheduled.

This is vital to be able to begin to limit size and number of vehicles on
our island.
There is much to be done to actually have this happen.

The Chamber has offered to provide the location, cost of census stickers,
taxi numbering labels, computer software, and money for extra manpower.
We desperately need:
1- Someone who knows Microsoft Access, and is willing to create a program
that will compile the data required on a vehicle title. Please contact me at
[email protected]
2- Someone with knowledge of getting non-removable labels (the kind used on
license plates that cannot be torn off and re-used).
3- Money for:
Buying the stickers for the re-registration.
Buying the stickers for taxi numbering and identification.
Furnishing a "Permit Title Certificate" that will permanently remain
with the owner.
Paying off-duty Policemen, Transportation Officers, Traffic Wardens to
perform inspections and recording.
Estimates of cost range from $5,000 to $7,000. Please note on
your check that it is for the "Census", so that it will be accounted for and
used for that purpose only.

For the many of you that have told me that the government should pay for
this, I agree. But anyone with any sense knows that it will only happen here
if we finance it, and help do it. So it is time for you to decide if you
really want to be a part of actually getting something done, or just want to
continue to sit back and gripe.
Please help us. Join the Chamber. Support our efforts.
Thank you,
Tom L. Vidrine, Chairman
Ambergris Caye Chamber of Commerce
011 (501) 226-3245
PO Box 148
San Pedro, Belize
Posted By: deking3333

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 03:28 AM

I already pay an annual fee to the town board and to Belize (not to mention worthless insurance) each year to have my golf cart. In addition I paid to get the permit to have it. I also pay real estate taxes, and for a trade license each year. In return for these things I get back very little from the town board or the govt. of Belize. That is just a fact of life here and I accept it and just move on. Lets not encourage the issue by volunteering to pay for services that should be provided already. Having said that I also want to add that I admire the chamber for trying to make the changes we need. Lets not get all Gringoed up and try to throw more money at the problem to fix it, thats what we like to do in the states. I want to remind everyone that this is Belize and not America and nobody made us come down here. If you want to live in a place like America, go back there.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 04:01 AM

Deking

Your post may have a little more"weight" if people knew who you are.Hiding behind a silly handle is,in my opinion,pathetic -I have noticed that you live here and are full of recriminations/negativities but you would get more reception and maybe sympathy if you outed yourself,and actually say what businesses you operate or are you embarrased about what you do and who you are?
Peter
Posted By: dogmatic prevaricator

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 12:01 PM

Good point, Peter.

As a practicing arm-chair psychologist, I can tell you it's well known that people say and do things in cyberspace that they wouldn't ordinarily say or do in the face-to-face world. They loosen up, feel more uninhibited, express themselves more openly. Researchers call this the "disinhibition effect." It's a double-edged sword. Sometimes people share very personal things about themselves. They reveal secret emotions, fears, wishes. Or they show unusual acts of kindness and generosity. On the other hand, the disinhibition effect may not be so benign. Out spills rude language and harsh criticisms, anger, hatred, even threats. Or people explore the dark underworld of the internet, places of pornography and violence, places they would never visit in the real world. On the positive side, the disinhibition indicates an attempt to understand and explore oneself, to work through problems and find new ways of being. And sometimes, as is my case, it is simply a blind catharsis, an acting out of unsavory needs and wishes without any personal growth at all.
Posted By: Miss Anthropy

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 02:34 PM

The problems addressed by Tom's report from the chamber are a concern to many people of San Pedro. So what if these things are "supposed to be paid for by the govt". That's precisely why these problems exist-in Belize and every other country. You can't depend on the govt to fix everything that a community needs or desires, no matter how many taxes or fees you already pay. I applaud the efforts of the chamber in offering these items up to people who are concerned and want to fix themselves, with money, community rallying, etc. We have benefits for ambulances, fire trucks, libraries, etc. Its no different to raise money through donations for other types of infrastructure or community programs. Traffic is probably one of the biggest issues affecting both locals and tourists. I think the Chambers propos smile al is a capital idea. Pun intended.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 07:08 PM

Marty

I applaud the work of the chamber.My suggestion would be to offer every board member the chance to contribute say 20usd towards the chambers costs and for you or the chamber to collect the money(unless that is impractical)and distribute accordingly.
I am speaking for myself only and although a member of the CC I have not approached them with this idea but it would certainly mean that everyone has done a little to help what is becoming a major problem.
Posted By: ScottKelley

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 07:30 PM

Hi Marty, I sent you an email about the database.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 09:37 PM

Please explain how a "re-registration" will solve any problems that can't be handled using the registration that presently exists within the Transportation Department. Every vehicle on the roads is registered and has license plates and annual stickers. In addition the San Pedro Town Council has issued annual permit stickers for each vehicle. Why does this need doing all over again?
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 10:13 PM

Jesse
Perhaps you could attend or even join the CC-I think it is as plain as daylight why we need a system that works -the present one obviously does not,and yes lets see if we can make the system slightly less corrupt.
If you do not want to join I am sure that the chamber would let you sit in and listen to what is said in the meetings.
If everyone tries maybe we will make things 10% better,but if no-one tries nothing will surely happen.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 10:32 PM

Peter: Thanks for the invite but I'm still waiting for an explaination of how this will help. If you're looking for a way to reduce the number of vehicles, use the data already compiled by the Transport Dept. and SPTC.
Posted By: Miss Anthropy

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 10:46 PM

Hi Jesse - do you think the current data is accurate? i think there are several vehicles on the island which are not duly registered. Maybe I'm wrong?
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 10:54 PM

Oh great, another layer of administration.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:06 PM

Miss Anthropy: Probably quite a few unregistered vehicles but that would show up using the existing records. No need to "re-register" to discover those vehicles. Just look for missing license plates and stickers.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:17 PM

Jesse -as a business owner I am sure that it is in your interests to see people at least try to stop the inflow of vehicles onto the island but just maybe it is easier to be laissez faire and do nothing but pick holes in other peoples(not mine)efforts.
Posted By: Miss Anthropy

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:20 PM

Don't you think there are many vehicles have stickers, that aren't actually registered? I will refrain from conjecturing as to how that might happen. wink So if a 'sticker check' is going to be done it would be difficult to determine if they are in fact duly registered unless the paper records are also reviewed in conjunction with the sticker checks. Not sure how you'd do that. Those stickers can be peeled off and stuck somewhere else. Then there are those with no stickers or registration-the obvious ones that are easier to see. Maybe the CC wants to re-registered to add quality control to the process of registration, its been hit or miss in the past for a lot of vehicles for various reasons.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:33 PM

Pedro: 1. I am not a business owner. 2. I want to know (from the authority who is planning this re-registration) how this new level of bureaucracy will improve the situation. And 3. Why can't the existing system be enforced.
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:39 PM

Jesse, do yourself a favor. Go to the CC, get copies of all the meetings relative to this subject and I think you will see the reasoning.

Ernie
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:41 PM

So why can't anybody explain it here on the message board? A mysterious plan...
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/30/03 11:57 PM

Jesse contact the CC not me.However your website investbelize presumes that you do some work here.
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 12:00 AM

This gringo woman's experience is, only the owners of vehicles that have all the legal proper registration, license, and stickers, would come forward to re-register. Now how will that flush out the owners of illegal vehicles w/o proper registration, license and stickers?
Ok maybe one or two would come forward and get legal.

Creating new paperwork/system is not easier than using the system that is already in place to flush out the offenders.

Best to use the paperwork you have of record, and put up road check points, periodically, to find the illegal drivers and vehicles. The amount of those fines, will pay the wages of the Traffic Warden, most likely.

Want me to be Traffic Warden for a day? Absolutely no pass given.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 12:04 AM

Surprise surprise the paperwork has been mislaid,and is not available-contact Tom vidrine
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 12:16 AM

Jessie, no one can explain it to you because you dont want to hear it. Why should anyone on this board take their time to convince you of anything?

Ernie
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 12:49 AM

Thanks Pedro, that is the answer I was looking for, where is the paperwork? You answered.

Let's debate the issues, instead of picking on Jesse. Keep to the subject.
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 12:58 AM

Chloe, I receive the min. of the CC and look at them with an open mind. No one, at least me, is picking on Jesse If you want the answers to questions , you go research it. I think the CC is on the right course. Check it out.
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 01:02 AM

Immissing, get on the right course is needed, and they have made a real start. Congrats.

Check it out, is Chloe's objective, always.
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 01:53 AM

Love Ya Babe
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 02:15 AM

AMAZING! After all this B-S no one in any position of authority can explain why the re-registration is necessary. Or must the "Blue" stickers be reissued in "Red"?
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 02:22 AM

Jesse

We have a saying"ignorance is bliss"
Immissing you are correct in your observations
Jesse let the world pass you bye-knock everything-use your power of veto but for goodness sake lets not try and change anything because it is so easier to bitch rather than try
You remind me of deking3333
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 02:24 AM

Anything but an answer...
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 02:30 AM

From Pedro1:"Surprise surprise the paperwork has been mislaid,and is not available"
If the paperwork becomes available would this project become unnecessary?
Posted By: Marty

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 02:39 AM

Hi scottkelley, i didn't get the email, maybe try again? maybe send to tom above, [email protected]
Posted By: JmHanna

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 02:49 AM

I aggree with Jesse
Pedro-go have another drink
Tom-don't try to run my life
Elsa-I will talk to you tommorrow
Jim
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 03:11 AM

Interesting

Marty posts the topic and our more esteemed members slam others for supporting what could be a very good idea-why not slam the messenger or owner of the board.
However the silver lining is thanks I will have another drink.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 03:24 AM

I've had this whacky idea for a couple of years. It's a long term plan, but it might just work. What I think we need to do is drop all restrictions on vehicles being imported to the island. Drop all local licensing fees, registration fees etc. Refund the portion of property tax that is allocated for road maintenance. Stop all road maintenance. Relax all parking rules.

Think about it....no-one could speed because the roads would soon be full of craters big enough to swallow the average vehicle whole. No-one could drive! The "scheme" wouldn't even be dangerous! The town center would be gridlocked. Owning a vehicle would be a total nightmare, but only for the owner. Somehow pedestrians would feel strangly free. And, yet, there would be NOTHING for vehicle owners to complain about as the authorities would not have taken a dime from them in fees!

Perhaps then, and only then, would we change the mindset of people who feel they simply MUST own a vehicle on Ambergris.

I do have another idea which is just as whacky: Do the opposite: increase license and registration fees, pave all the streets in town, and the main roads south with those ugly grey cobblestones or nice chipsealed tarmac. You can make black tar look like white coral sand with the right chipseal colour. Here's the kicker: install speed bumps EVERYWHERE at about the same distance they are spaced on that stretch of road behind Ramons. Now, let's see who wants to drive a vehicle UN-NECESSARILY on the island now that Ambergris Caye would have wonderful roads with a speed bump imposed maximum velocity of about 10 MPH! Now only the needed vehicles would stay and they'd have to drive slowly.

Both ideas are daft, but somehow I'd take either one over what we have now.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 03:45 AM

So Cris, since you're moving to Mexico, why do you bother to get involved in the future of Ambergris Caye?
Posted By: ScottKelley

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 03:48 AM

Thx Marty. Tom got the email.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 03:52 AM

Jesse, my plans have changed, I've got at least one more year here, I'm an Investor in Belize (chortle) again.

I'm also interested in what goes on in Iraq, but I don't live there!
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 04:07 AM

"I'm also interested in what goes on in Iraq, but I don't live there!" Cris.
Maybe you should try it. You could work on their traffic problems.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 04:08 AM

Jesse, so what you're saying is...you LIKE my ideas for traffic control on A.C.!
Posted By: deking3333

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 04:13 AM

This will be my last post on this site ever. It is unfortunate that expressing an opinion that doesn't go along with the mainstream makes you out to be a bad person. Giving your name to any statement you make here just opens the door for more criticism. It is obvious that there are many more people out there that know what goes on in Belize and what is best for Belize more than I. I bow to your knowledge and wish you much success in your efforts to turn Belize/San Pedro into America. Marty, if you read this I love your site and what you have done for tourism in Belize is hard to equal but lately the tone always seems to be jump on anyone who disagrees and that is negative no matter how you slice it. I guess the one thing you can't control is people. Now who wants to jump on first and tell me how bad or negative I am? I'm just going to keep on doing what I have been doing before most of you got here, enjoying Paradise.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 04:30 AM

Cris: Your ideas seem especially suited to Iraq.
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 04:48 AM

Come on De King can't leave us now.

We are starting to come together on this issue, the name calling is running dry, next round may have viable solutions.
Posted By: Miss Anthropy

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 04:28 PM

It looks like there are just several different agendas going on with several different people-what's new about that? Nothing, except that some change is happening and it may interfere with someone's agenda and may assist with another's. So be it. Negatives and positives are subjective. Chris' agenda for example is to get everyone out of his/her personal motorized vehicles and onto their feet or bikes. This sounds pretty commie to me, but I'll withhold making judgment since I don't really know him, and I'll chalk it up to differing agendas, not negativity. Be honest, everybody's got an agenda.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 05:09 PM

Anthropy: My agenda is: 2 Whacky ideas.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 06:49 PM

Milo Paz had the "current numbers" from the town board at last week's CC meeting. It stated that there were two hundred and something registered golf carts on this Island. What a crock! There are more rental carts than that figure allows for.
Something needs to be done! At least 2 of our guests in the last few months have been hit by taxi's (neither of which stopped). And just yesterday, a BIG*$$ green truck with FL tags almost ran me off the road in my golf cart.
I am all for the CC plan!! I think we need to protect our little Paradise.

PS: On another subject, I was told by a divemaster today that she saw sharks in Hol Chan again!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!
Posted By: NYgal

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 07:12 PM

Now I know I saw way too many vehicles on the roads in San Pedro.

I didn't like playing dodge the vehicle while we were there !!! It's no fun to have to watch your back and try to look for shops etc.

Thank you
Posted By: dolphin

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 07:27 PM

My position, not necessarily the Chambers:

Verbal swordplay is not a sport I usually have time for, but I would like to correct a few mis-conceptions that were expressed.
I do wish people knew what they were talking about, or at least try to find out before drawing conclusions. The last thing the Chamber wants to do is make Belize into America, or any other country. Some structure in a society is vital to avoid chaos, but too much becomes America. A society cannot exist where everyone just does whatever he or she wants, regardless of others.
As I told Andy (Commissioner and Harbor Master of Belize Port Authority) our guest speaker at the last meeting, we do not really want or need every restriction, rule, or safety device dictated by Canadian Coast Guard Rules. What we do need is basic controls that require basic common sense like a boat having lights at night, which avoids killing people. The trick is to draw the line somewhere in-between.

To deking3333:
My heart bleeds for the amount of money you are paying in taxes and fees to live here. Be real. You want to remind everyone this is not America; then be realistic. This country bleeds San Pedro for income, and does not have enough sense to invest back into the very source of the income. Many elected officials of both parties take advantage of their power, and milk every potential project, or sell any natural resource the county has. The residents (especially the locals) suffer the tremendous growth without reinvestment in infrastructure to maintain it.
That is the way it is. Live with it, or leave it. That is the choice of the voters of this country, and not my, nor the Chamber’s, problem to solve. Our purpose is to work within what exists, and try to make our lives and businesses thrive in as pleasant an atmosphere as possible.

Miss Anthropy:
You say it well. In the Western world the people demand that their government solve all their problems and provide for their needs. Here, if you want something done, do it yourself.

Jessee:
I cannot share all of the reasons behind the re-registration, and if you really want to know the background and the purpose, get involved.
Here are a few “facts”:
In 1990, there were 527 registered vehicles. Today there are about 800-900 legally permitted (according to the Permit files).
About 1,600 register each year, and pay their annual fees. This includes golfcarts. (Transport Office)
Vehicle income to the Town is reported to be $80,000 to $150,000 (Different official sources)
San Pedro spends over $900,000 in road maintainace each year. (Town Board)
It is estimated that 300 to 1,000 vehicles are illegally on the island and do not pay fees.
This is the data you expect us to work from.

Bill Thornton:
No “New” level of administration. Only a dedication of local officials to actually enforce the law.. Will it actually happen? Who knows? Finally we have an interesting combination of government. Local – UDP, National – PUP. Locally we have a Representative and Mayor willing to address the problem. We also have the Chairman of the Traffic Committee pledging to enforce the present laws. Why? A combination of being able to get credit for doing something good, and someone to blame for what is unpleasant to voters. Regardless the Chamber only wants to be a catalyst for a real change and is willing to take the heat. This country has great laws, but none are really enforced, which leads to the corruption everyone complains about. All we can do is begin at a local level.

Chloe:
The present paperwork is a joke. Everything you say has been done for the last 12 years. You see the result? Everyone has a connection, everyone wants laws enforced on everyone but them, and no one actually pays fines except the poor laborer because his bike was impounded for no bell.

Chris:
I appreciate the humor in your suggestions. The first one would be fine if we weren’t totally dependent on tourism. But we could save gas money taking them to the Blue Hole because there would be so many of them right in town. The second one would make us everything we don’t want to be, a Cancun. Seriously, one of the better suggestions at the meeting was to make slots in the speed bumps that would allow bikes to cross without hitting them. Also bike and pedestrian paths, so cars avoiding the existing speed bumps would not swerve to the side of the road. Figured you would like those.

The 1990 Environmental Impact Report on Traffic basically said the same things we are proposing today. Nothing has been done. If no one does, where does it stop? The island is evolving to lose everything that made it special. Does the Chamber want to make Belize into America? We are trying to do everything to stop it. Why would we want more Traffic, Pollution, Noise, and Crime.

Regardless, our island is already overrun, and will never again be the sleepy village most of us fell in love with. But it is not yet become Belize City, which I know that no one wants. San Pedro is not in danger becoming America or Cancun. But it is in danger of becoming Belize City, and if you want to wait on the Government to do something about it, you are foolish.

You are either part of the solution, or just remain part of the problem.
Tom Vidrine
[email protected]
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 07:42 PM

Tom, thanks for the report.

Ambergris can never be like Cancun, America, Canada, or England, due to the laws of each.
Belize is Belize.

Call it American or whatever, but the best start in changing things, is started from the Top down, not from the Bottom up, IMHO
Posted By: dolphin

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 08:36 PM

I agree with starting at the top, but that is not my, nor the Chamber's place. That is the right of voting citizens.

The Laws of Belize do not make us different. Actually our laws are basically the same.
It is the choice of Belizeans not to follow or enforce their own laws is what makes here different.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 08:44 PM

Tom: your statement that there are 800-900 legally permitted and 1600 register each year is confusing to me. Is there no coordination between what is allowed and what registers? Could you please clarify?
Not being involved in commerce in San Pedro, I have not involved myself in the Chamber of Commerce but I am curious as to how many members of the Chamber are businesses owned by locals and how many by foreigners. Thanks

PS: As to the speeding, speed bumps, taxi drivers ect, I guarantee you a trafic cop giving out tickets for one day for people not stoping for stop signs, speeding etc. would cover his wages for a year and revoking licenses of repeat offenders would get their attention. But I guess that is too complicated of an approach.
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 09:55 PM

Yeah Bywarren, tickets written to offenders, and follow up to make them accountable in paying said ticket, will control half of these problems, and fill the coffers with money to pay that Traffic Warden. Well said.

IMHO, being in San Pedro, I noted the locals speeding the most. Tourists were cruising to enjoy the views. But ticket everyone that offends the traffic laws.

Enforcement Enforcement Enforcement of the laws on the books already.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 10:04 PM

AMEN!!!
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 10:33 PM

confused You are loosing me on this one Pedro. Are you saying making people obey the traffic laws and fining them for not is too simple and won't work so we need to come up with more complicated solutions? :rolleyes:

I would like to see what the driving was like in San Pedro after a couple hundred tickets were issued and some licenses revoked. wink
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 10:35 PM

Peter, explain to me, why enforcing the laws on your San Pedro books, and writing tickets to all that break those laws, is fence sitting?

Nixon and Clinton I know for a fact has nothing to do with the vehicles and traffic in San Pedro Ambergris, Belize C.A.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 10:47 PM

frown Peter, did you edit out your comment and make Chloe and me look like we are talking to nothing?
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 10:52 PM

On or about Feb. 21, 2002, Tom opened a topic about the Chamber of Commerce, I can not find that topic today. If it can be located I would love to read it again. Hm 2/21/02 to 5/31/03.

As I recall it died a cruel death. I remember it so well, because I actually wrote a check to donate to the cause, before I could get it mailed and the envelope was addressed, the topic went belly up. Therefore that check was never mailed.

You cry for help, we get behind you and you shot yourselves in the foot.
Posted By: Miss Anthropy

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 05/31/03 11:31 PM

Enforcement of existing laws is a great idea, HOWEVER, to work it has to be done impartially and systematically. It ain't. Nor is the registration process. At least by getting an accurate handle on exactly what is the fact today, by doing a re-reg or whatever you want to call it, will be a good, local starting place. Then maybe there will be something to enforce rather than just the same old business as usual that maybe worked okay from 1978 to 1993, but has increasingly gotten out of whack. I don't think more laws are needed either, no way. Enforcement of traffic violations is part of a two-prong process along with proper registration. Who are these taxi drivers who have allegedly hit tourists, do they even have legal authority to drive in Belize? Maybe, maybe not. But just the fact that tourists would claim such a thing is not going to bode well for the local industry. The GOB does bleed the island for all its worth, literally, so local government becomes even all the more important, as its closest to control by the people it affects. Why all of the boos and hisses toward a group of local folks who are taking the lead in trying to get a grip on fixing a serious problem?
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:03 AM

What she said.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:16 AM

Apologies the captains(not Marty) are pulling my posts-apparently McCarthyisim is not dead.

I have seen many people just tell the traffic authority to get lost,and as they are conected there is not a lot anybody on the traffic dept. can do,or at least so it seems.

There is corruption - just look- a local hotel has just got permission to bring in 24 Golfcarts and two trucks (their hotel has 21 appts)-it had no vehicles before.

Why not support something that may work rather than do nothing and say a system which patently does not work should stay in place and people with connections will do what they have always done-the system needs to be overhauled.I know many families that have at least 3 vehicles car/cart/atv -legally here

Furthermore please tell me how a Spanish speaker with no english language skills can take and pass a driving test which is only given in english.Yet again the system needs to be looked at by people who care.
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:24 AM

Pedro, after all this time ,I finally got you on your spelling!!! Hot Damn! "McCarthysim"? DON'T THINK SO BRO!...... Just a change of pace. Have ONE drink on me. Send me a copy of the tab and I will send you a credit memo.

Ernie
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:30 AM

Ernie-checked with a lawyer(Pat Stiley)-he said either with a y or an e-so I will take the drink(now),and have another later for your impudence.
Posted By: dolphin

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:43 AM

To bywarren:

Your question, "Is there no coordination between what is allowed and what registers?"
The answer is correct. There is none.

As far as Membership makeup, I have been too busy to update a breakdown as I have in the past when there was a concern it was "just a gringo thing". We do not report as to business makeup, because the majority of the membership are just individual concerned residents, although the majority of the donated money comes from the Business members. We did have about 60% American/English/Canadian residents, about 40% Belizean. I would expect it to be about the same.

To give you a little insight. The Police are authorized to give tickets, but do not since the Town Board has all the ticket books, and we are trying to get them to the police because our new Police Inspector seems to care. But that is not as simple as it sounds.

Only one Town traffic warden is authorized, but is too busy. But only un-influential people get tickets anyway, and most of those don't pay them.

Tom
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:50 AM

Tom: I do apprechiate anyones effort to improve San Pedro. And, I don't care their party or "agenda". The problem is enforcement!! As a former policeman, I see a ticket book of violations daily. Matter of fact, yesterday, a golf cart ran over my foot. The sticking point, to my understanding, is that the Police say that Transportation has the authority and Transportation says that the Police have the authority to enforce the traffic laws. My question is this: Does the Chamber of Commerce believe that they are a quasi-governmental organization? I hope not!! At least the politicans can be voted out, periodically.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 12:53 AM

Bill go to the meetings or get a copy of the minutes and then you will understand what the CC is trying to achieve.
Posted By: NYgal

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 01:00 AM

bywarren hit the nail on the head.
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 01:06 AM

Peter: My time is very valuable. I just don't have time for anymore meetings. My understanding is that I could get copies or emails of the meetings, if I become a member. While obviously the Chamber of Commerce is dealing with issues relavant to me, I just don't want to belong. No offense. Bill
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 01:12 AM

Bill -correct me if I am wrong but you are commenting on something that you have not investigated,and have no idea of the what the CC is trying to achieve and how?
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 03:02 AM

Peter, I will bite, what is it that we do not understand? Do tell. Thanks
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 03:32 AM

Chloe in answer to fence sitting -the present system does not work-it is the biggest moan of people,who visit here year after year here that the traffic is getting worse-creating more dust,congestion,noise etc.etc. -is change not good-is it not a good idea to limit vehicles on the island-is it not a good idea to get rid of a system tthat has so many holes in it that is worse than useless.

Read Bill's post he is not going to investigate the aims of the chamber in regard to this paticular problem-everyone has the right to opinions but at least they should be informed ones
for or against.
Posted By: dolphin

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 03:53 AM

I really don't have the time,the money, nor the inclination to continue a discussion on this message board. I am one of a group that is really trying to do something, rather just verbally beat a horse to death.

Chole: Whatever topic interested you. The Chamber has not "dropped or stopped" any issue we have accepted as a project.
You say:
"On or about Feb. 21, 2002, Tom opened a topic about the Chamber of Commerce, I can not find that topic today. If it can be located I would love to read it again. Hm 2/21/02 to 5/31/03.

As I recall it died a cruel death. I remember it so well, because I actually wrote a check to donate to the cause, before I could get it mailed and the envelope was addressed, the topic went belly up. Therefore that check was never mailed.

You cry for help, we get behind you and you shot yourselves in the foot."

We discuss so many issues, but very often cannot find someone who cares enough to actually do what it takes to solve a problem here. Every issue we have accepted as a project, has and is continuing.

I never "cry for help" until we are actually doing something, and need all those people that seem to have so much to say, but never really do anything to step up to the plate.

The Chamber has NEVER had a project go belly up. Not that it won't happen in the future. But I will do my best to keep that from happening.
And I resent anyone making such a stupid, uninformed comment.

If some of you would spend as much time as you do on your computer doing something real, we could accomplish so much. Luckily we do have a great group of people who do want to see things change for the better, and slowly but surely, we can make a difference.

If anyone has a question, come to a meeting, email me at [email protected], or stop by.

All my best, and all are welcome.
Tom
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 04:08 AM

I think Bill just politely said that he did not want to belong to the Chamber. Not all of us are here on the island for "commerce". I would describe myself as a "semi-perminant tourist" just here spending money. All I would like is to be able to drive down a road where I was not either breathing dust or dodging pot holes and spattered with mud while trying to stay out of the way of a speeding taxi.
Who has vehicles and how many is something that needs to be addressed and I commend those doing that. But no matter how many vehicles are on the island, if you cannot get the ones there to stop for stop signs and drive the speed limit, you are going to have problems. And if you cannot solve those problems, the larger more difficult problem of how many vehicles should be on the island will be irrelevant. It only takes one speeding vehicle to kill a child.
Posted By: rickcheri

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 04:14 AM

Well said Tom!!!
Rick
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 05:04 AM

Now Tom, your work is appreciated.

Obviously I have done more in life than sit here on the board. I also try to clarify what I am saying/meaning. You should read my post again, I did not say your C of C projects went belly up, I am not dumb enough to say that, since I do not know all your projects......but the topic you started in 2/21/02 or there abouts, did not go anywhere, we were left just hanging, waiting for more information. Sorry you did not understand me correctly. Therefore we did not respond with dollars to be of support.
Only pointing that out, so updates and info. is given so C of C will get more support.

Any visitor to Ambergris can see, there are too many vehicles and many vehicles speeding. Dangerous of course.
Posted By: JmHanna

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 06:28 AM

this topic belongs in 'General Chat'
Posted By: NYgal

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 03:08 PM

Perhaps this does belong in 'General Chat', but where would it have gone if that 'General Chat' area wasn't established? It is speaking of the island.

The tourists that complain of anything on this board get grief, the trouist that may be injured due to flying vehicles may not speak up as well? Bless the children or injured.

I know the street shops didn't get my attention very well, as I have said from playing dodge cart !
It's not a fun game and I'm certain there are way too many people criticizing one another, just read above.

How many are actual Belizeans in this 'C of C' banter?
Well bite my tongue off......
wink
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 03:36 PM

Now for my NOT so whacky idea to slow traffic down:

Speed bumps all over the island. That is all that is required to slow the speeding taxis, souped up gas golf carts and empty pickup trucks down. No need to hassle the police or traffic department to hand out speeding tickets or muck around with radar guns. (The police are badly underpaid and until we, the taxpayers, and the government offer to double their pay and give them a real career to pursue, there is no need for the average policeman in Belize to feel that he is wanted and appreciated by us).

The speed bump thing COULD be done and Oh! so easily. If the town board were to give the OK I'd offer to pay for a couple of good ones (speed bumps). Hmmmm....actually a couple of years ago I DID write a letter to the old town board offering to pay for a couple of concrete speed bumps. No reply, of course.

Tom, if you would like to co-ordinate a "pay for the speed bump" project I would gladly contribute. But, I would like to see speed bumps EVERYWHERE vehicles speed, not just outside schools etc.

By the way, there are now NINETY taxis on this island. I think most of the taxi drivers are good guys, (only a few are inconsiderate maniacs) but when you're driving a taxi all day and road conditions allow, the tendancy is to drive too fast. Best thing is to make the road conditions conducive to 15Mph driving.....SPEED BUMPS.

I was born in the UK and have had Belizean citizenship since August 1989. Does this count?
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 04:06 PM

confused Chris, I am not trying to lessen the importance of your idea about speed bumps because I know they can help with the problem. But what is perplexing to me is how we often approach a problem that involves human beings who are equipted with a brain capable of reason by relying on an inanimate object to replace the need for people to be responsible.
I have no problem with speed bumps. But, I still feel it should start with personal responsibility and consequences for the lack of. It it were up to me, I would opt for income from tickets as opposed to expenses for speed bumps. smile
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 04:12 PM

Speedbumps can't be bribed.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 04:34 PM

The speed bumps would work 24 hours a day.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 04:43 PM

Bywarren, you are right about some kind of ticketing, though. But, when our police are so appallingly paid, I can't feel angry when they balk at enforcing driving laws that are so freely broken.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 05:06 PM

This topic is drifting away from the original post but some good ideas are coming out speed bumps in particular-However the original point was are there to many vehicles(with more coming every week) on the island or not?Do we need more or do we need less?legal or illegal?corruption good or bad?
Posted By: toad

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 05:28 PM

speedbumps suck....why dont you just govern the vehicles down to about 5 miles an hour...

no need for thanks
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 05:32 PM

Chris: you and Jesse bring out very valid points on the advantages of speed bumps. I am not disputing that. It just frustrates me to go to speed bumps for the solution when we are dealing with human beings. I do not think we should take the defeatest approach that we cannot effect change by changing human behavior and relying on inanimate objects in leu of humans acting responsibly. I just have trouble with going to the next step of speed bumps, governors or what ever without first exhasting all efforts on the human level. If the problem is with humans, then the solution is with humans. I am not willing to accept that the Town Council, the police department and the traffic department should not be expected and cannot be expected to do their jobs. That seems basic, and if you cannot get the basics done, you will not get anything done. That is where it all starts. I don't care if we are talking about running a town, a business, a sports team or anything. Start with the basics first and when you have that handled move on to the next most difficult thing.
Posted By: Chris

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 05:52 PM

Bywarren, you are right, it could be handled at the human level but we are paying our human cops sub-human wages while the fat cats in the government make millions getting kickbacks. While police and others feel underappreciated we will always have the problem of poor enforcement.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 06:18 PM

Chris: I am not trying to be argumentative. So please don't take it that way. But, if the problem is what the police are paid, how will speed bumps help correct that problem. What about when we feel they are not doing their job when it comes to theft or murder? What inanimate objects correct that problem? Sure, we can lock everything up that moves and dead bolt our doors and try and remove every gun, knife, club whatever and have speed bumps on every road every 20 yards. But is that the best solution?

I think you might be right on in identifying part of the problem. And, if you are, then that is where the solutions start.

It is not going to be a very nice place to live or vacation if people (like the police) do not do their job and people who act irresponsibly only suffer a bump in the road.

PS: I know this started out about limiting the number of vehicles on the island. But if I had my choice of having 1000 vehicles (or however many) like it is now, or having 2000 driving courtiously and paying enough in fees to have decent roads, I think I might choose the later. The amount of vehicles needed is very subjective. Driving courtiously and having decent roads is a neccesity if tourism is to continue to grow. And if the island chooses to want this growth as it apparantly has, then the number of vehicles will also continue to grow. But, their priority should be safe driving and good roads no matter what the number of vehicles.

PPS: are all you people involved in commerce going to limit the number of boats and motors after you limit the number of vehicles? Here is the equation: people = vehicles. Less people = less vehicles. Now who is going to be first to suggest that we start limiting the number of tourists and residents on AC, or are you just going to be the ones that dictate who can have vehicles? Are you all sure you have identified the real problems?
Posted By: toad

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/01/03 10:32 PM

tourists dont need vehicles...make us lazy bastards walk....
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/02/03 12:14 AM

True we tourists can walk, and will do it happily.

WHAT.........was that number of taxis..90 (ninety) that is unbelieve, San pedro must be larger than I saw. 90 taxis or 90 drivers?
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/02/03 01:08 AM

Toad and Chloe: please don't speak for all of us. Although,I probably should walk more than I do: laugh
Posted By: Chloe

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/02/03 01:12 AM

Everyone has to walk except Bywarren..... wink
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 01:44 AM

Pedro: It isn't necessary to belong to the Chamber of Commerce to comment on these issues. My Purple Steed is registered, my Belizian Drivers License is current, my insurance is current and my plates are affixed. I drive very safely. If it becomes LEGALLY necessary for me to re-register my cart...I will. I did ask Mayoress Paz about re-registering vehicles and she is strongly behind the movement. Re-registering vehicles is perhaps a good idea. It could also be a political witch-hunt. The Chamber of Commerce could be a great group of people with great motives. I hope so!! My issue is that the Chamber of Commerce is not accountable to anyone...but themselves. I can only wonder what the old-time SanPedrano's thinks about the Chamber of Commerce re-registering their vehicles? Take Care: Bill
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 02:08 AM

What is the saying "you can be part of the problem or you can help solve the problem".There is a point that you might not see a problem but I think anyone who enters a debate should actually educate themselves on what the group and the debate is about.
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 02:25 AM

There should be a law! BWI.
Posted By: rickcheri

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 04:58 AM

LOL !!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Islenutt

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 06:54 AM

Pedro - the saying you are looking for is:

If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Just thought I would throw my two cents in...
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 11:02 PM

There is also an old saying: "None are so blind, than those who can not see". The pursuit of "commerce" have caused all these problems.
Posted By: Pedro1

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 11:11 PM

Bill
How do you think people survive without commerce?

1. There would be no message board
2.No roads esp. to your house(which we pay for -for the uninitiated Bill's house is by itself in the middle of nowhere)
3. No supermarkets
4. No restaurants
5. No electricity
6. No TV
Need I go on

Peter
Posted By: Miss Anthropy

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/03/03 11:17 PM

Good point Bill.

From my legal dictionary:

Commerce
1. The exchange or buying and selling of goods, commodities, property, or services esp. on a large scale and involving transportation from place to place.

2. The act of engaging in sexual intercourse
Posted By: Laguna Punta

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/04/03 02:54 AM

I have nothing against sexual intercourse!!! And for my old friend Pedro 1; the property I live on is private, and the road to my home was built privately and maintained privately. I've noticed that your drifting badly from the topic. Keep your eyes on the road!!
Posted By: Mike and Daphne Ryan

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/05/03 03:44 PM

Hi Irrascible Beings -

The CC does not legislate, it does not control anything. (Being owners of a business enterprise we are members; I've sent $200BZE to help with this project. We've sent money for other projects that seemed worthwhile.)

Charity organizations do things without being part of the government or running people's lives. The CC fits into that model.

The CC organizes people to work with the city or businesses to find a concensus for things that will improve SP. The Battery clean up is a good thing, and I don't see why we have to insist that govenment do everything. If the government won't allocate funds to do things it has legislated to do (there is plenty of that up here in Massachusetts), I'm willing to help properly empowered people (belonging to the city government) who will do their job if they are provided the means.

The projects undertaken by the CC are SO much better for the community as a whole than some projects similar organizations in the States undertake that our friends are constantly astonished when we tell them about what the CC does.

We were appalled to learn about the increase in vehicles, clearly not proportional to the population growth, clearly not on accordance with the statutes. Preserving the environment as best we can is a good thing for the island -- the people there and the tourists. The CC is trying to find a way to make travel easy and reasonable for residents without smashing the environment or making more road maintenance than SP can manage.

The first thing is to get GOOD information. It currently is not available. The problems that led to the current difficulties can be, perhaps, discoverd and made plain. From this information, reasonable policies can be PROPOSED and discussed, then implemented by the proper authorities.

Those of us who want this to happen will work towards it. Those who don't care or don't want to participate don't have to do anything. When the PROPOSALS FOR CHANGE come up for discussion, as citizens they can object, agree, or ignore, as may be their wont.

I don't understand the vituperativeness that this idea has brought forth.

Mike Ryan (my real name)

P.S. Many of the "What are the facts?" questions are answered in the ealier post by dolphin "Why the Chamber". Check it out.

Michael
Posted By: GAY AND DAVID

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/05/03 04:28 PM

need to consult my unabridged copy of websters. . . :rolleyes:
du du du du, du du du, du du du DU du du du du da da (the jeopardy song) cool
v i t u p e r a t i v e n e s s :rolleyes:
gay
Posted By: sanpedroslim

Re: Vehicle Registration... from the Chamber of Commerce - 06/05/03 04:29 PM

There seems to be alot of good ideas going back and forth. The C of C seems to be what it thinks is best to help what is a problem for all San Pedro. Like it or not they're trying. But to Jesse's point there must be a way to work within the current system to achieve what is wanted by all. Corruption has been a part of this society and we all know it. Get over it. Speed bumps work.
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