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Spearfishing?

Posted By: Spleen

Spearfishing? - 06/01/05 08:18 PM

Hey folks,

I spearfish in FL and was wondering if it's permitted on AC? Freedive or scuba? I don't think I'd pursue on the trip I'm about to take, but it might be fun for the future. I would like to freedive for bugs if that's allowed. Will the scuba operators or fishing charters allow you to grab some lobster?
Posted By: SimonB

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/01/05 08:42 PM

Please keep your spear at home, our environment is fragile enough as it is.
Posted By: TXTraveler

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/01/05 10:12 PM

I was able to spearfish last year with our guide on a beach bbq snorkel trip. Speared lobster, snappers, etc & took them back to the beach for one of the best bbq's I've ever had.
Check out the pics (scroll down to the underwater ones)
http://geocities.com/adamkristitolman/belize.htm
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/02/05 01:53 AM

Spleen, listen to SimonB. If everyone came down and hired a guide and went out and caught what they wanted to eat ( spearfishing is legal free diving ) then just think how much worse off the marine eco system would be as opposed to the harvesting of under sized lobster and conch, the allowing of Honduranean shrimp boats in Belezean waters, the use of fish traps and gill nets and the out of control dredging to make land.

When you are sitting on a beach made by dredging, eating your conch ceviche made from undersized conch and eating your fish that came from a fish trap where 10 fished died to get you the one you are eating, just think how much you are contributing by leaving your spear back in Florida. :rolleyes:
Posted By: Spleen

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/02/05 08:54 AM

For the record, I'm talking about spearing adult fish intended for the dinnertable, not "shorts" or killing for sport. How is spearing different than line fishing from a boat, btw? The advantage if spearing is that you know the type and size of the fish *before* you hook it and haul it in.

And bywarren, I think you're right that commercial fishing, especially without regulation or enforcement, is the the real hazard to the marine ecosystem. Spearfishers don't kill 10 fish to get one, nor do they hunt undersized fish or create "bycatch". The good news is not "everyone" can or will come down with a spear because very few folks can freedive at all. The long and short of it is that recreational fishing, above and below water, is considerably lower-pressure and more sustainable than any commercial fishing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 04:50 AM

Spleen: While spearfisherman are not exactly my favorites (mainly because of what was done to the Jewfish in Florida from 1940 to 1960 under the name of "commercial spearfishing") I have to agree withyou that any recreational fishing is low-presure compared to commercial fishing - nets, long-lines, whatever. There has never been or will be a species wipe-out by rod and reel. Too many variables! Yes skeptics its just that simple.
Posted By: SimonB

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 02:07 PM

I'm interested in what size fish you consider a good catch? Would be that be the larger breeding stock?
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 02:44 PM

SimonB, you are totally missing the point of the argument shown by your leading question. Unless your premise is that fish should not be harvested and eaten, then the question is how is the best way to harvest the fish. I challenge anyone to make an argument that any other method of harvesting fish is less detrimental to the sustainability of the species than spear fishing.

This topic has come up before, and it always seems that some are opposed to spear fishing but have no argument or facts that support any better way to put a fish on the dinner table.
Posted By: SimonB

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 04:30 PM

Okay maybe I'm prejudiced but my feeling is that if you're down there spear fishing you're not looking for little fish but the bigger ones which are the breed stock. Line fishing is much more hit and miss and on a percentage basis you're much less likely to be taking breed stock. Of course, you then run into those who keep every single fish they catch no matter how small or how many and that can only be remedied by regulations. That's not likely to happen until it's too late as been shown over and over again both in the sportfishing and commercial fishing realms.

I'm a firm believer in catch and release and slot limits instead of catch limits as the only way to sustainably fish. The problem is that by the time we set any kind of limits the stocks will be depleted, the fishing guides will be out of business and commercial fishing for many whose lives depend upon it will also become a thing of the past.

Look at the stocks from 10 or 15 years ago to today, where there used to be mass schools traveling the waters of AC there are virtually none. Commercial over fishing and all take sportfishing are major contributors. No, I wasn’t here back then but my closest friend was born on this island and her father has been a fishermen all of his life so my information comes from a reliable source.

I guess I just don't have faith that when faced with a big ass snapper that someone with a spear is not going to let loose. At least with hook and line the fish has a better chance at outwitting the angler IMHO.
Posted By: Gaz Cooper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 05:11 PM

It is also ILLEGAL to actually spear a lobster any lobster found with a hole in it you run the risk of a lot of hassle and grief and a big fine the guide runs the risk of losing his license (if he actually has a license as taking tourists spearfishing is not the best choice and condoning the spearing of lobster shows the lack of professionalism of that guide)

I agree spearfishing should not be encouraged when we make our living off showing visitors the beauty of the underwater life and while on occasion we that live here sometimes go and catch our dinner it is understandable that if we took every tourist out spearfishing there would quickly be nothing left.

Dive safe

Gaz
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 05:34 PM

Let’s take a closer look at your positions. First of all, you are talking about two issues. One, the way in which fish are harvested for consumption. That is the issue at hand. The second issue you bring up is the ethics of catch and release which involves catching fish for the sport of it and is worthy of another debate, but does not apply to this issue.

You make your argument based on the assumption that a spear fisherman is going to take a “breeding stock fish”. The person taking a fish to eat, be it a spear fisherman or a hook and line fisherman, gill net fisherman, fish trap fisherman, long line fisherman, etc, are presumably going to be after the same fish i.e. one good to eat. The spear fisherman spears that one fish. The hook and line fisherman may have to catch numerous fish before he gets the one he wants to eat. Every time a fish is caught it suffers some damage, be it a hook in the gills, damage to its mouth from the hook, damage to it’s bladder from being brought up from deep water too fast or just fatigue from being caught. Some that are released survive, some do not. And, all of the other methods catch fish that are not desirable to eat and are discarded.

You go on to put blame on the “declining fish stock” to over fishing by both sport and commercial fishing. In an objective analysis of this, one must also take into consideration the damage to the environment from dredging, pollution from the increase in population on the land and the increased boat traffic and the pollution it brings. It is a big ocean out there and just because there might be less fish around Ambergris Caye does not lead me to the only conclusion that there are less fish. I think an argument can be made that fish move to a better environment.

You also bring up the issues of regulations and the limits which any fishery can sustain. But this applies to all that partake in the harvesting of the fish. If a fisherman is allowed to take, let’s say a limit of 10 fish, then I maintain that the spear fisherman will do less damage to the population in taking his 10 fish than any of the other fishermen for the reasons I have stated.

PS: Gaz, "I agree spearfishing should not be encouraged when we make our living off showing visitors the beauty of the underwater life".

Does this mean you do not serve "underwater life" to your guests or suggest that when they go into town for dinner they only order rice and beans or something that did not come from the ocean?
Posted By: Gaz Cooper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 06:29 PM

was that last paragraph directed to me Mr Bywarren
if so I suggest you dont entice me into a confrontation
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 07:05 PM

Yes Gaz, it was quoting your words and inquiring as to if you are consistant with your principles. It would seem to me that not serving sea food would be consistant with your principles, unless your principles are only self serving or that they are just prejudice.

And if you consider discussing ideas to be confrontational, I suggest you only participate in this forum when you are promoting your business and leave the discussion to the rest of us.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 08:36 PM

SimonB If Spleen should leave his speargun home than rod and reel should be disallowed also?
bywarren: there are many methods of harvesting fish less detrimental than a spear gun. Try an otter trawl for shrimp. Tons of juvenille fish and crustacean destruction after every "tow". A tow can last 15 minutes or 3 hours everything captured is "dead" 100% mortality rate. That as destructive as a speargun? I think not!
Many more examples if necessary.
The never ending battle between: commercial -recreational fisherman - and environmentalists will surely not be solved on these boards.
Then again its certainly worth trying?!!
Posted By: Phyllis&Ray

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 09:00 PM

Sure glad I didn't run into any of the know it all expats when we have visited.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 09:00 PM

Rykat, you have me completly confused. Isn't what you are saying about shrimp trawling supporting my argument that it is more detrimental?

Am I the only one that doesn't get his point? confused

PS: Phyllis&Ray, if you had maybe you could partake in this discussion with an intellegent comment. :p
Posted By: Catatonic Motivator

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 09:33 PM

I fish with rod and reel and I spearfish. When I spearfish, I have the choice as to which fish to shoot and which fish to not shoot. With line and lure, there's an awful lot of luck involved.

I can assure you that I kill a lot less fish with spears than I do with hooks, and I try not to kill any more than I'll eat or share with others.

What a crock, kids. Spearfisherpersons (and there are damn few of them, comparitively) are, almost exclusively, divers. Divers, in general, make it a point to preserve and protect the marine environment. Can we agree on that?

I've seen exactly no spearfisherpersons haul in hundreds or thousands of fish and, to that point, very, very few spearfisherpersons haul in even ten or twenty fish on multiple day trips. My educated guess is that one or two, probably moderately-sized, fish are taken per dive--free or, where permitted, on scuba. Period.

Sounds like more uninformed sea-hugging and holier-than-thou commentary to me.
Posted By: Gaz Cooper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 09:49 PM

Mr Bywarren

I merely made a comment about spearing a lobster being illegal and a guides proffesional conduct by allowing that I did not give you my views on the pros and cons of spearfishing I merely made the point that encouraging tourists to spearfish is not smart as with the growth of the island will quickly deplete stocks and I have been here long enough to support simon B saying that there is definaltey LESS fish.


I wont waste my time biting at your inuendos YOU HAVE NO IDEA of what my principles are

Maybe you should try doing something a little more productive with your time instead of trying to incite people.

Dive safe

Gaz
Posted By: Amanda Syme

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:06 PM

People that need to earn a living which depends on tourism and the beauty of the environment tend to be a little more contientious and cautious about the fragile ecosystems which we have grown to love.

Others plan to visit once or twice then move on to another beautiful spot.

Others still don't need to earn a living.

Opinions are like noses, everybody has one.

TGIF!
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:24 PM

Gaz, I deleted the post I just wrote in response to your post prior to you editing it in which you called me an idiot. Maybe you should take more time to think about what you are going to say before saying it and then having to retract it. And, maybe you should also take more time and give more thought before advising me what to do with my time. After all, it is mine. laugh
Posted By: Gaz Cooper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:29 PM

Let me try and explain my comment since you are having trouble understanding simple english

I do not think it is wise to encourage spearfishing to tourists ie selling spearfishing trips to tourists however that is not to say I am against any type of fishing as I enjoy allsorts including spearfishing, but I do not agree that selling spearfishing trips to the masses of tourists that visit Ambergris Caye is wise simply because it will deplete the fish that we have here. (or maybe they will just leave to a nicer enviroment LOL

I stand by my words too I just decided to delete what my real thoughts of you were ITS MORE POLITE THAT WAY

Gaz
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:41 PM

Here we go again. Someone attacking a person on a personal basis as opposed to discussing the issue.

I will let others decide the merits of these comments.

But as long as you are on this personal attack, I would be interested in your explaining more to the people of the Board about my behavior while in San Pedro. If you are going to make these persoal attacks, then back them up. You also might want to re-read some of your words about not inticing someone into a confrontation.

PS: Well, there you go again. Editing your post while I am replying to it. You really should give more thought to what you say about people. I am sorry more did not see what you wrote before you had the sense to edit it. Stand by your words, they give a good picture of you.
Posted By: Gaz Cooper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:46 PM

Its not personal I dont even know you however I do know your posts over the past years and this is not the first time you have tried to incite me.

your the one that started this not me I made a clear and simple comment and you jumped on me for whatever the reason you have

I even asked if it was directed to me and you confirmed it was

DONT TRY and make out anything bad was edited i merely edited as a courtesy because you edited yours

I agree let people look back at read our past posts and the answer is clear

P.S We can all see your picture is a spitting image of you LOL
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:47 PM

I enjoy fishing with dynamite...it's much easier and not as scary since I don't have to actually get in the water to spear them (sharks are in the water too, you know!). And I also don't have to hold the slimy, scale covered creatures in my hands to get the hook out! TGIF! laugh cool
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 10:58 PM

Dynamite tends to keep the riff-raff away too!
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:09 PM

You just don't ever want to have a miscast line!!! cool
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:11 PM

bywarren: Please explain for us simple of mind.
__________________________________________________
"I challenge anyone to make an argument that any other method of harvesting fish is less detrimental to the sustainability of the species than spear fishing"
___________________________________________________Thanks, Rykat
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:13 PM

I know I should let this go. BUT, Gaz you made a comment and then edited it out about my behavior when I am in San Pedro. That is a direct personal attack and I resent that and will defend not only my positions on issues but especially my conduct. You wrote it and I read it and I assume others might have before you had the decency to retract it. And then you have the audacity to say you did not edit out anything bad. frown
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:14 PM

You just lite the fuse and throw...but don't slip and drop it in the boat!
Posted By: Gaz Cooper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:18 PM

your right you should let it go
Posted By: papashine

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:23 PM

You guys gonna fish or talk!
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:25 PM

Thanks Rykat for getting this back to the issue.
You confused me when you said there are many other ways of harvesting fish less detrimental than spearfishing and then sighted shrimp trawling which I feel we both agree is more detrimental. It just confused me, seemed contadictory.

I stand by my position that spearfishing is the least detrimental to the species as a way of harvesting as opposed to any other method.
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:27 PM

Let's settle this at center ice during the first game of the new Belize Hockey League!!!! Just like the Hanson brothers,EH!!! It'll be a sell out!! Boy we're all going to make some $$$$ laugh cool
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:30 PM

Gotta figure some way to combine dynamite and ice hockey. Now that could be real exciting!!!
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:30 PM

See General chat...investment of the century. cool
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/03/05 11:32 PM

Jesse...exploding pucks if they go in the net! it would ensure GREAT goaltending! cool
Posted By: sandb

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 12:07 AM

Who needs P1?
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 12:10 AM

Or P2?????? laugh cool
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 03:21 AM

bywarren: Agree
Posted By: SimonB

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 04:02 AM

Sorry, had to go to work and make a living and missed all the excitment. Look's like we'll all have to agree to disagree.
Posted By: XIIthMan

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 05:02 AM

I have bywarrens back also. I might add, that it is not only the tourist who is totally responsible for overfishing, collecting out of season, collecting undersize, or just going after the "big" fish. My friends hired a guy for fishing several days and for a beach BBQ. This was in late may, early June, not lobster season. For the beach BBQ, there were some fish, a small lobster, and two small conch, which he advised against trying to bring the shells bak because they were too small. Faced with protecting and sustaining fisheries or satisfying tourists, a local fisherman may think about his needs first.
Posted By: TXTraveler

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 03:42 PM

This may change some of your views of spearfishing
wink


[Linked Image]
Posted By: klcman

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 04:02 PM

paleface
Posted By: collyk

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 04:55 PM

Sorry to interrupt this eloquent and constructive *cough* debate with my ignorance. When we are talking about spear fishing are we talking about spear guns or just a hand held spear? I did not know it was illegal to spear a lobster (not that I did) but my guide did with a hand held spear (in season and not a small lobster). I understand completely about fishing without respect for the environment. Where I grew up crabbing was what I spent my time doing. We had a few rules. You didn't take anything under a certain size; if you caught a stone crab with two claws you could only take one and if it it only had one you couldn't take any (I still have some reservations about that one), if you caught a blue crab carrying eggs, you could not take her.

Recently I went back there and there are no stone crab or blue crab to be caught. Clearly someone didn't follow the rules.

It does seem logical though that one tourist, spearing (non mechanically) fish for his supper is likely to cause less damage to the environment than one tourist going to a restaurant where the fish may have been caught by net, trap or some other form of fishing which results in multiple and often pointless wastage.

I genuinely would love more information on sound and ethical fishing practices so that I can get my dinner causing least environmental impact. Also so that I can be well enough informed to choose my guides carefully. As a forum geared towards visitors, it would be much more useful if local business people and local people would give practical information rather than use this as a way to bitch at eachother. Quite frankly bitching is much more entertaining when done in a bar.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 05:16 PM

Especially if you include a couple of machetes...
Posted By: papashine

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 05:39 PM

Think the original question[s] were if spearfishing is permitted, and can you free dive for lobster, yes if you free dive, and yes if they are in season, most people use a hook stick for the lobster. Do not go near other peoples shades or traps.
Posted By: TXTraveler

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 06:07 PM

Quote
It is also ILLEGAL to actually spear a lobster any lobster found with a hole in it you run the risk of a lot of hassle and grief and a big fine the guide runs the risk of losing his license (if he actually has a license as taking tourists spearfishing is not the best choice and condoning the spearing of lobster shows the lack of professionalism of that guide)

I agree spearfishing should not be encouraged when we make our living off showing visitors the beauty of the underwater life and while on occasion we that live here sometimes go and catch our dinner it is understandable that if we took every tourist out spearfishing there would quickly be nothing left.

Dive safe

Gaz


Now I'm confused. Can I take lobster or not?? Gaz says its illegal but others say its ok.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 06:25 PM

It is legal to take legal sized lobster that do not have eggs during the season June 15-Feb 15. It is not legal to spear lobster the reason being if once it is speared and found to be undersized or with eggs, you cannot release it unharmed - the damage is already done. That is why most natives use what is called a hook stick - basically a small gaff. The procedure is to hook the lobster where the shell of the body meets the tail and then released if neccessary. The only problem with that is, the fisherman must be good enough to hook the lobster in the right place otherwise it can be damaged. As many of you know, in Florida you can use a snare, but that is too slow for commercial use thus the hook stick.

PS: this might be of further interest //ambergriscaye.com/pages/goodscv/lobster.html

PPS: see sometimes we get a little information out along with the "bitching". smile
Posted By: Spleen

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/04/05 10:47 PM

Wow, I don't check the board for a couple days and this string goes from 4 replies to 47!

Anyway, just to clarify a couple points...

Rykat, your example about the spearing of jewfish/goliath grouper is an excellent demonstration of why there has to be common sense limits to the hunting of fish. They are protected here in FL and have made a heck of a comeback, so much so that local spearfisherman here complain the renewed jewfish population is having an effect on the population of other gamefish. Sour grapes if you ask me. As an aside, I was troubled when I saw Cap'n Jeff's fishing pics including a small jewfish. That was a very juvenile example of what could be a 600 pound fish. I'm surprised that anyone would keep it, but that's why the law steps in to protect fish species when the fisherman won't. Then the fisherman will complain when they can't fish for this or that, or that there's no more fish to catch. The people I spear with no longer target red grouper voluntarily because they're seeing too much pressure. It's better for the rec. fisherman to back off than create a situation where the gov't has to step in to regulate.

Gaz, there is definately a time and place for everything. Spearfishing on Breakers reef in West Palm Beach FL (where I live) is a big no-no. There's no law against it, but being our best and most beautiful recreational dive reef the dive operators and the dive community have convinced even the line fisherman to leave this reef alone. I don't advocate spearing in areas that have appeal to the recreational diver or snorkeler. Also, it's good to have untouched areas to act as spawning areas to populate the rest of the area. Dive and snokel ops need to make a living too and want a healthy reef full of fish for their clients. We only spear for fish in areas well off shore that are not frequented by recreational divers because the topography isn't terribly beautiful and the visibility is usually lower than on the "showcase" reefs. Also, the only organized spearfishing trips I know of are of the blue water kind where serious freedivers look for big game. I don't think it would be sensible to promote organized spearfishing tours on any reef system. It would last about a year before the fish population was blown out.

Simon B, there are definately spearos that look for the biggest fish, but up here the bigger older fish are usually diseased. A 15 pound grouper is more than enough fish to eat while a 50 pounder is frequently wormy.

bywarren, I see your point too. It's easy to criticize rec. fisherman or spearfisherman, but doesn't anyone who consumes fish contribute to the problem by supporting teh commercial fisherman who typically used hi-bycatch methods? And we can attack the commercial fisherman, but many of them are trying to make a modest living themselves. It's a complex problem and maybe the answer is there's just too many people to feed. Someone made a good point that on land we would never consider wildlife to be a sustainable food source. How long would wild deer last if there were no regulations? In North America the buffalo was almost exterminated from hunting pressure. Why should we expect the wildlife of the ocean to be inexhaustable?

Catatonic, I agree with you 100%. Most spearfisherman love the ocean and want a healthy sustainable fishery with a long future. There are a few that are pure trophy hunters and they're commonly looked down upon and criticized. When the folks I dive with get 2 or 3 fish on the first dive they quit and grab the camera for the second dive. Waste not want not.

Sorry for starting such a hot topic but I thought there was some excellent debate as well. For the record let me state that I didn't ask my original question intending to come to AC to spear lobsters (not allowed anywhere I know of and a great way to bend a very expensive shaft, btw) or slaughter the local fish population or terrorize the women and children, lol. We all love the fruits that the seas has to offer whether it's a photograph or a fish on your plate. What's good to see is that everyone is concerned and cares about preserving this very precious resource.

See you in 2 weeks, AC!

Spleen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 12:19 AM

aaahhh - the voice of reason and reconciliation, you'll fit right in spleen - have a wonderful trip and happy eating!!
Posted By: reaper

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 02:13 AM

Well....that just took all of our fun with this topic right away laugh Have a fantastic trip and watch out for the dynamite and grenades!!!! laugh cool
Posted By: sandb

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 02:34 AM

Amen.

But, I am concerned about your observations of captjeff's fishing habits.

Quote
Originally posted by Spleen:
...As an aside, I was troubled when I saw Cap'n Jeff's fishing pics including a small jewfish. That was a very juvenile example of what could be a 600 pound fish. I'm surprised that anyone would keep it, but that's why the law steps in to protect fish species when the fisherman won't...
Posted By: captjeff

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 03:03 PM

Why am I brought into this bull shit controversy? The fish we keep we give to folks free!!!! Who cannot afford to buy fish on their diet, they live in Belize City and we do a good deed. I fish with local captains who tell me the right thing to do on size and species. Capt Francisco Verde caught the fish that day. He has been living here over 45 years. Spleen or any other free thinking, limousine liberal, Eco minded do good.. keep my name out of this.!!!! you go tell Capt Francisco Verde yourself he is no fuc**ing good and he should listen to You!!And as you know all about his life and what fish he should keep and what is not good for him to fish for. if you have the bal*s ...A point of info When we go fishing the capt is the boss. it is There boat, there island. If he says to throw it back ,it is a done deal, we do not keep it as this is his island and he lives here. I am just a once a month gringo fisherman who loves the people and the island. I try not to tell locals what to ever do.so keep my name out of this crap,you are entitled to your opinions just keep me out of your silliness please..
Posted By: captjeff

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 04:08 PM

sandb here you go again a nobody, telling a somebody what to do . and whats right or wrong ..get a life..
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 04:30 PM

Welcome to the world of some my buddy, where what you do is wrong and what they do is no problem. We all have an effect on our environment by just being part of it. Be it the fisherman who catches the fish, the dive operator who brings down divers who contribute their share of strain on the environment and probably want to eat some sea food after they are done looking at it or the business man who’s interests are getting more people on the island who want beaches and buildings and who create garbage, sewage, demand for taxis, roads, power, etc.

We need to all try to be responsible in our endeavors and live by the moto “live and let live unless it is the fish I want to eat for dinner”. wink
Posted By: captjeff

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 04:54 PM

bywaren,I can understand spleens feelngs , if he wants to spear fish god bless him ,but to bring me into this is bull, as he is a gringo just like me ,and first comming down in two weeks ???? he will stay a week have a fun time???so why is telling the local capt he is wrong for keeping a fish .. what a pair..then he blames me ???? I did not catch the fish he capt verde caught it not me!!!! a local sanpedro long time fisherman . in retrospect why get upset in a month we will say spleen who ?????? as for sandb we know her deal ,a opinionated do nothing .. all talk no action ..how much time, and money has she spent on helping the local belizean community.I suspect none ..and yes the city folks that had many free fish dinners think it was just wonderful........
Posted By: NYgal

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 06:00 PM

S T O P.......pointing FINGERS, all of you smile
Posted By: Spleen

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 06:01 PM

Jeff, why the rant? I say the taking of juvie jewfish is troubling and you're having something of a freak out. I didn't "blame" you for anything. I'm not sure why you're so threatened?

Jewsfish don't reach maturity until they're somewhere between 4 to 7 years old and 50 to 90 pounds. That fish looked to be about 20#.

It's great that you're donating the fish you catch to folks who can't afford to pay for it. My suggestion would be that in the course of that charity it might be better to release immature fish. Because jewfish can get so large and are slow to mature what might look like a full-grown fish for a black grouper or a gag is a baby for a jewfish. If I meet Cap'n Verde I'll be happy to make this suggestion to him personally and I promise to do it calmly and respectfully. If you read the entirety of my comments about that fish you'll note that I made my comment in the context of fisherman protecting the integrity of their own fishing grounds and it's harvestable population to avoid regulatory control. Gov'ts step in to regulate fishing when fisherman, commercial and recreational, fail to regulate themselves.

I know you'd love to peg a guy like me as some elitist lefty eco do-gooder. I myself wouldn't mind the limo if that comes with the job. The truth is I've been fishing for 30 years, diving for 20 and spearing for 10 and I've killed my share of fish. If you want to call me anything call me a libertarian, because what I would like to see is fisherman regulate their own fishery responsibly *without* the hassles and endless debate that comes with regulatory intervention.
Posted By: KS

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 06:13 PM

All I want to know with all this organic nitrogen floating around is will I still be able to fish when I come in Sept.

Also it seems to me that making a precise targeted "kill" versus the random method might be better for the fish and thats coming from a guy that has fished with a pole for 50 years.
Posted By: KS

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 06:15 PM

All I want to know with all this organic nitrogen floating around is will I still be able to fish when I come in Sept.

Also it seems to me that making a precise targeted "kill" versus the random method might be better for the fish and thats coming from a guy that has fished with a pole for 50 years.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 07:28 PM

Let me try and put this in a different context while using some of the views expressed but not meaning to be critical of those views and incurring the wrath of those holding those views. I am honestly not trying to incite people (that is sort of an apology to you Gaz) only to get us to view the debate in the broadest context and not just from our own personal interests.

Spleen coming down to Belize with his spear is not the problem and the threat to the environment as SimonB’s observation might suggest. Spleen coming to Belize is the problem.

And, a tourist hiring a fishing guide to take him out to a spear some fish or catch some lobster for a shore lunch or to take back for dinner instead of just coming down and going diving is not the problem. Fishermen and divers coming down are the problem.

The reason for there being less fish around Ambergris Caye is the destruction to the marine eco system and the demand for sea food. Hell (this might be a slight exaggeration) there are almost as many restaurants on AC now as there were people 40 years ago.

Any fishery or eco system can only handle so much pressure. And, we all who live or visit AC put pressure on those. None of us are exempt from contributing to this pressure.

IMO, what would be best for Belize is for everyone who has an interest in Belize to work together to promote sustainable growth and not just try to limit growth by promoting ones interests while discouraging the interests of others. Of course that is complicated by that term greed. So don’t hold your breath and expect AC to be like it was 40 years ago. But don’t blame today only on those with interests other than yours.
Posted By: collyk

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 07:35 PM

It's a shame that when people disagree they resort to abusive name calling and swearing. This is, after all, a web forum where people come to share information and ideas. I don't offend easily, but I can imagine that people who are coming to this site for the first time just to find out a bit about Ambergris Caye might be a bit intimidated. Everyone has an opinion, but people are much more likely to listen and respect it when it is voiced reasonably.

Personally, as someone who has little experience fishing except when I was a child and who is very interested in understanding more about fishing, sustainability and the legal and ethical aspects, I find this sort of debate interesting in relation to Ambergris Caye as I intend to spend a great deal of time there and I would like to produce and take my own food without ruining the environment for Belizeans of the future.
Posted By: captjeff

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 07:41 PM

spleen then why bring me into the mess your big mouth created .I could care a rats a** about you or your views .and no you will not have the bal*s to tell the local guy your self..I will follow the rules, as I try to do my best and blend to the local fisherman rules ,not preach to them and no gringo will tell me whats right or wrong when in a foreign counrty that I enjoy fishing in .my ranting is at you !should mind your own business and keep my name from your bull shit..In a month you will be drinking your latte at the office and will not care about any one eating fish in belize.. and who cares about kill spear fishing ,controlled sport fishing ,it is a personal matter here in sanpedro opinions are like as* holes every body has one....and if a life long resident capt,.. of sanpedro tells me it is ok then it is ok .and spleen enjoy your stay in paradise.have a great time ....
Posted By: NYgal

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 09:19 PM

eek
And the beatings go on.....
Posted By: Spleen

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/05/05 09:35 PM

bywarren, you're right in a sense. What is the carrying capacity of a place like AC? We tourists will come down and spend $$$ but we'll consume water, consume fish and other foods and leave waste. Then again, we have the same problems here at home, where I live 2 blocks from the intracoastal waterway. We humans are gonna leave our footprint wherever we are. That's why I think there's value in being thoughtful about our impact wherever we are.

Jeff, like I said before I never accused you or blamed you for anything. You put the taking of the fish on the Cap'n stating you're just along for the ride and don't ask questions or offer opinions. That's fine. I didn't think the words "I saw Cap'n Jeff's pix" were terribly incendiary. Again, I'm not sure why you're all worked up since we both agree you don't have a dog in this fight.

Since you brought it up, I'm not saying it's the same thing but if you're on a boat and the captain's using dynamite to fish is that a "personal matter" and you're not about to tell him what to do? We are allowed our opinions and last time I checked we're free to state them if we think we see something out of sorts. If you think taking juvie jewfish is no big thing, then enjoy it while it lasts. We had lots of local old-timer fisherman here in Florida who thought it was OK to take any and every jewfish they saw too and then guess what? We hardly had any jewfish left. Funny how that happens, huh?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/06/05 04:39 AM

geeeeez - where'd the love go confused
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Spearfishing? - 06/06/05 04:40 AM

PEACE...
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