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Posted By: collyk Cats - 08/09/08 11:57 PM
We are currently trapping feral cats in the Banyan Bay area for neutering, rabies vaccine and release. If, for some strange reason, you have a cat that you do not want neutered, please keep him/her on your property for the next few weeks.

Please keep in mind that an uncontrolled cat population is bad for the cats due to transmission of disease, bad for local wildlife as cats are not a native species and rapidly wipe out birds and other small animals and bad for people as there are health risks associated with uncontrolled feral cat populations.

If you would like to find out about trapping in your area, please feel free to PM me or contact SAGA.

Many thanks to SAGA for making this possible.
Posted By: Dutch Re: Cats - 08/10/08 12:16 AM
Thanks collyk. SAGA is great. I have a bunch of stuff I'll be bringing down within the next week, maybe make the kitties feel better.
Posted By: bywarren Re: Cats - 08/10/08 12:26 AM
Saga does a lot of good work. But, I take issue with releasing unwanted domesticated animals.

"Please keep in mind that an uncontrolled cat population is bad for the cats due to transmission of disease, bad for local wildlife as cats are not a native species and rapidly wipe out birds and other small animals and bad for people as there are health risks associated with uncontrolled feral cat populations."

Releasing domesticated animals to fend for themselves that do not have humans to provide them with food and shelter is more cruel than sending them to animal heaven.
Posted By: collyk Re: Cats - 08/10/08 12:39 AM
While I agree with you in principle bywarren, there are reasons that release is necessary. Research on feral domestic animal populations has indicated that without release, the vaccum created by the absent animals creates a niche for new, uneutered animals. As long as the necessary resources are available to support a population, the population will come. A population of neutered feral animals is preferable. Neutered feral animals also are healthier and less of a public nuisance.

In an ideal world, no companion animal would be without a loving permanent home.
Posted By: bywarren Re: Cats - 08/10/08 12:48 AM
Sorry, that logic totaly lost me. I see no reason for animals to be left to scavage for food and become deseased - neutering does not keep them from desease - if there are not people willing to take care of them.

Jesse: raccoon heaven.

PS: the only reason there is a feral cat problem is because others did before you exactly what you are doing, i.e. releasing domesticated animals to fend for themselves.

But, as I said, SAGA does a lot of good things. I disagree with releasing, but I don't want to overshadow all the other good things SAGA does debating this. Keep up all the good other work.
Posted By: divingcowgirl Re: Cats - 08/10/08 01:26 AM
PS: the only reason there is a feral cat problem is because others did before you exactly what you are doing, i.e. releasing domesticated animals to fend for themselves.

By, to some extent, but more than likely, feral cats (since they were not neutered) will continued to breed and reproduce. I understand what SAGA is trying to do to TRY and control the population and I commend them for that.
Posted By: SimonB Re: Cats - 08/10/08 01:42 AM
Numerous studies have found that releasing neutered strays is the most effective method of controlling feral populations. While I understand your concern bywarren, your solution only perpetuates the problem and causes suffering of a never ending supply of animals. The released population also tends to be much healthier due to a reduction of fighting and STD's.
Posted By: bywarren Re: Cats - 08/10/08 01:49 AM
I do also. I just feel animal heaven is a better approach. Releasing animals to compete with other animals for a limited food source so that some will not survive thereby reducing the population of animals that should not be there anyway seems more cruel to me. Who can say that the animal that is neutered will be the one to survive as opposed to the one that is not. And if the neutered ones die because of lack of food or desease instead of the non-neutered ones, then what has been acomplished other than one animal suffering instead of the other.

PS: Simon, I am familiar with the TNR studies. I just disagree with the findings. Sorry, just my logic not just accepting others.
Posted By: Short Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:02 AM
Just out of curiosity: When you do not want to create a vacuum in the feral domestic cat population, why then neuter them in the first place? I also don't think neutering and vaccinating for rabies has any effect on hygiene. On top of that cats do not only wipe out birds and other small animals, but all local wildlife - thus there is no place for them on the island.

I think the procedure is pretty inhumane and irresponsible, as SAGA thus becomes part of the problem. In the end wasted money and incomprehension will be the only results of this action. I don not intent to demotivate, but to encourage a responsible - non emotional - and more humane solution.
Posted By: SimonB Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:08 AM
I can only suggest that you do some study before you jump to conclusions. If you think killing off all the stray cats will solve the problem it won't. You'll just end up having them replaced within a matter of a year or less by a new (and larger) population, a never ending cycle.
Posted By: Dutch Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:08 AM
The cats also help keep rats and other vermin in check. It would be difficult for me to help support a round-up and wholesale extermination of homeless animals. Cats do serve a purpose, the population just needs to be kept in check to reduce unneccesary suffering and unchecked population growth.
Posted By: bywarren Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:24 AM
It is a debate with people differing. TNR is advocated by many but also challenged by others. http://blog.windstar.org/2006/12/trapneuterrelea.html

There are studies supporting both methods. Just because someone sites one study does not mean that is the answer.

I just have difficulty releasing animals to what I consider a more cruel life than animal heaven.

Posted By: belizegial Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:25 AM
I have about 15 cats in my yard and none of them are mine. I encourage them to stay though as once they are here, the rats will stay away.
Posted By: KC Jayhawk Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:27 AM
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. That may well be true for cats, too (neutered/spayed or otherwise).
Posted By: bywarren Re: Cats - 08/10/08 02:33 AM
Also, what has not been mentioned by the proponents of TNR, is that when it has been successful, it has been combined with "caretakers". That being people who feed the released cats and see they get medical treatment when needed. That is not what is happening here. They are just released to compete with the other animals for food.

"Dispelling The Myths
"Trap-Neuter-Return" (TNR) is the process of trapping feral cats in humane traps, having them altered and vaccinated, and returning them to their original location. In a TNR program, a feral cat colony caretaker, who is usually a volunteer rescue worker, feeds the cats on a regular basis and brings them to a veterinarian if they require medical assistance. The resultant group of cats, including any new cats entering the caretaker's sphere, is known as a managed feral cat colony."


Posted By: collyk Re: Cats - 08/10/08 04:04 AM
Neutered feral cat colonies are, in fact, healthier than un nuetered colonies. STDs as Simon pointed out are one of the most serious health threats to cats. Neutered cats fight less, resulting in fewer injuries, wander less, reducing road traffic related and fighting injuries and also suffer from fewer cancers.

I do not represent SAGA and therefore cannot comment on their policies. What I do know is that having a neutered, rabies vaccinated population is prefarable to having an un neutered, unvaccinated population.

While I understand and sympathise with the concerns put forward and don't, in principle disagree with any of them euthanasia has been specifically proven to be ineffective as a method of feral population control unless there are no remaining reproductive individuals, which just isn't going to happen.

Managed feral cat colonies are excellent when possible, but there is no such programme here and until there is there is a simple choice - Vaccinate and neuter or allow them to breed without limit and die of preventable disease.

One other note. A lot of money and time has been spent on identifying donors to animal welfare organisations. The most significant proportion of donors believe in 'no kill' policies and will not financially support animal charities that participate in euthanasia programmes.

I am not saying whether this is right wrong or indifferent, but it is a fact and it most certainly is a singular force in forming policies within large animal welfare organisations.

Bywarren, perhaps you should set up a free euthanasia clinic in San Pedro. It is an interesting concept of old (animal welfare clinics in the early 1900's offered free euthanasia on demand - especially during war times.) Animal euthanasia drugs are extremely difficult to obtain here legally.



Posted By: bywarren Re: Cats - 08/10/08 08:38 AM
Whatever side a person comes down on in this debate, it is because they feel that is what is best for the animals. I commend those that take the time to do what they feel is best.
I just happen to be on the side that feels it is more humane to euthanize than to allow a domesticated animal to fend for itself. Vaccines do not last forever and animals can become susceptible to disease and spread disease if not routinely cared for. And, unless they are run over by one of our speeding taxi drivers, chances are they are going to suffer a less humane death than euthanasia. We do not allow our house pets to suffer when the time comes. There are no extended care facilities in the wild and death from starvation or disease to me is worse than an earlier more humane passing. That is just the way I feel. That is not being critical of those that feel differently and are doing what they think is best. It is just a different view point.
And, I do conceed that TNR is better than doing nothing.
Posted By: NYgal Re: Cats - 08/10/08 01:54 PM
Bywarren, I agree!

Perhaps they could put every other cat to sleep and 'fix' the others? Less cats, less time spent on keeping them healthy?

You will never find all of them but... shrug.
I'm a believer in keeping the 'rats' away!
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