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Fire Boat

Posted By: SunDevil

Fire Boat - 01/17/12 04:42 AM


[Linked Image]

Does Ambergris Caye have a FAR (Fire and Rescue) unit? Would like to put together a volunteer team that would work the water water ways in and around San Pedro Town working with the local fire dept and more importantly from the bride to the north where many of the homes and resorts are right on or near the water but left on their own as from the satalite photos the roads don't look like a fire truck could reach the homes in time.

Is this service provided by the Belize Coast Guard?

Would I encounter a lot of push back from the Belize Gov? to promote such a venture?

Thanks so much in advance for your input.
Posted By: seashell

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 05:23 AM

Is it your intention to this as a gift to the island?
Posted By: CarlosCabanas

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 05:30 AM

What is the draft... could it even get around or close to the buildings. There is a thread on this forum about well intentioned gifts that don't work and or are miss used. I suggest you search for it.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 03:22 PM

Judging from observing past endeavors in Belize, I would say this could be beneficial to the country. Not for its original intent, but after a few years as an artificial reef. Now some will consider this comment to be sarcastic. Others with more knowledge of Belize will consider it to be an accurate prediction.
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by bywarren
Judging from observing past endeavors in Belize, I would say this could be beneficial to the country. Not for its original intent, but after a few years as an artificial reef. Now some will consider this comment to be sarcastic. Others with more knowledge of Belize will consider it to be an accurate prediction.


grin @ byWarren Another artificial reef? wink

Sundevil, To answer your question no there is no boat of the kind youre talking about. The fire dept on the island struggles to respond to structure fires with only 400 gallons of water on its pumpers. Unfortunately the sustainability of such ideas even when originated from within the country oft falls by the wayside. I'm still waiting to see the locally proposed bouy system to safeguard swimmers and boaters after a terribly unfortunate accident last summer. The intent is good, and I like the spirit in which it is offered.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by seashell
Is it your intention to this as a gift to the island?


If your asking will I spend 3.5 mil + to buy this life and property saving piece of equipment to turn over to the government of Belize the anwser to that would be "no". I believe to maintain the integrity of this program and to serve the people of Ambergris Caye its best left in the hands of private enterprise. Now, if the residents of Ambergris care to contribute
to the cause this would be of course welcome, operating costs would certainly be high!
Thanks so much for your comment.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by CarlosCabanas
What is the draft... could it even get around or close to the buildings. There is a thread on this forum about well intentioned gifts that don't work and or are miss used. I suggest you search for it.


Hello Carlos,
Thanks for your input. The draft on this particular boat is about 4 feet so unless there is pilings, bolders or other under water debris located in the approach to a water side fire it should be able to handle most any situation. Was looking at the pictures of your resort (if it is yours) and from what I can see the fire boat would have NO issues to the approach. That being said, the bow water cannon has a shooting distance of approx. 185 feet the two aft cannons are slightly less.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by bywarren
Judging from observing past endeavors in Belize, I would say this could be beneficial to the country. Not for its original intent, but after a few years as an artificial reef. Now some will consider this comment to be sarcastic. Others with more knowledge of Belize will consider it to be an accurate prediction.


Bywarren,
Thanks for your comment. I don't find your comment sarcastic at all, on the contrary, it holds allot of truth. No matter if its national government, local gov or the private sector "good intentions often go by the wayside just like a sunkin vessel in a reef. Many times (more often than not) government often gets in the way of projects that can be of the good of it's people, many times people start projects without looking at the whole picture and that is a very sad thing.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bear
Originally Posted by bywarren
Judging from observing past endeavors in Belize, I would say this could be beneficial to the country. Not for its original intent, but after a few years as an artificial reef. Now some will consider this comment to be sarcastic. Others with more knowledge of Belize will consider it to be an accurate prediction.


grin @ byWarren Another artificial reef? wink

Sundevil, To answer your question no there is no boat of the kind youre talking about. The fire dept on the island struggles to respond to structure fires with only 400 gallons of water on its pumpers. Unfortunately the sustainability of such ideas even when originated from within the country oft falls by the wayside. I'm still waiting to see the locally proposed bouy system to safeguard swimmers and boaters after a terribly unfortunate accident last summer. The intent is good, and I like the spirit in which it is offered.


Hey Bear,
Appreciate your feed back. Why is the government dragging their feet on a bouy system for "Safety" and particularly after an accident, are we dealing with a thought process of "Every person for themselves?" In my past dealing (business or private) it takes a head strong individual to make things happen. How big would this safety bouy system project be? Is the scope of this project be massive or just in a few key areas where swimmers and boats have the tendency to collide.
As far as my project goes I wonder would it be welcomed by the powers to be, would it be seen as an intrusion by national an/or local government? I gaurantee you that if a fire broke out at a resort, a million dollar home, or anywhere else that the local fire dept cannot respond to, there would be many that would be delighted at this prospect.

Thanks again!
Posted By: champion

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 09:14 PM

SICK<
It doesn't pad anybody pocketbook.
Posted By: krehfish

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 09:36 PM

How far does your FAR squirt water? 4' of draft is an issue.
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/17/12 10:11 PM

Quote
$3.5 mil+


shocked *gulp* Ok, Ahhhemmm, well alrighty then. Am I allowed to even wishfully think that figure is in Bz$? Not that it would make a difference, so I'll just assume it's USD.

I'd conjecture that you'd find the communities and government on AC or even the mainland interests in the Caye hardpressed to come up with that kind of money. Particularly so when there is a critical need for projects more important to the peoples' immediate day to day lives. Projects such as an adequate, continuously clean water supply, adequate sewage systems, proper roads, funding of schools, and basic social services. Not to mention good basic fire and police services. After that or in conjunction with that, as you prefer, I suppose you can begin on the environmental laundry list. Projects such as restoration of critical mangrove habitat where illegal or improper land use was allowed and has left the island naked to the ravages of storms and erosion. Yet despite all I've mentioned the island has seen large donations of cash, better directed at such causes, donated and willingly accepted for items such as, oh, say 30' tall LED clocktowers situated in the middle of a crowded intersection.

The Caye is a unique community, and I will be very up front about the fact that I'm a newbie owner and learning how it works. But, perhaps like yourself, I'm interested in participating for the betterment of the island. So I ask questions like yourself and I learn things everyday that simply amaze me as far as how things are done. Many people here on the Board, and it is a diverse community in its own right, have repeatedly seen the kinds of questions you're asking. Dont take terse responses personally (I'm sure youre not, but just in case...) they're are simply giving you their best abreviated answers.

Headstrong individuals (particularly of the non-citizen kind) and their ideas seem to be categorically dismissed if their opinions or ideas differ, or don't coincide, with the current agenda or opinions of the incumbent leadership. We have a local mayoral election comming up and there may very well be a change for the better in that regard. I hope so, but its an uphill battle for the progressive independent candidate.

Other people have learned to work the ropes and are effective but they often have been here for years, are major players, well funded (or may purport themselves as such) and know how to work the politcal and administrative machine. Unfortunately not all of those folks are of pure mind and intent. While working the machine the populace at large has found that many such operators run the machine for a more self serving than altruistic purpose.

The other aspect of the kind of project you're proponing is mainteneance and upkeep. This touches on that topic to which Bywarren was alluding; equipment/programs of this type require a significant ongoing ops budget. Based on past record such political and fiscal committment has often been wanting on even simple projects like mooring or navigational bouys upkeep. (As to your question about why it takes so long to get things done or commit, the simple but true answer is, it's Belize)

Again, I think its a fantastic idea but given the fiscal (and physical) realities of the Caye, about which I am constantly reminded whenever I talk about improvements with friends and neighbors, headstrong efforts might be better placed elsewhere when it comes to improving emrgency services. As a suggestion work with the local fire department to enhance personnel training, keep existing equipment in good repair and most particularly, coming up with a cost effective way to provide additional water to fire fighting apparatus for the fires to which thay they can respond. The recent story about the total loss of the single moms house house becasue the responding unit ran out of water is a heartbreaker. Perhaps you saw it too. A water tender to provide backup might be better suited to the local FD's needs.

But even then such work, ideas, suggestions and plans needs to be done with respect, flexibility, and a sensitivity to toes, allegiances and alliances. At any rate, I thought I'd offer some broader comments on the realities as they have been presented to me in the past. Just sayin'.
Posted By: seashell

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 01:01 AM

Bear, that was one of your best and most diplomatic responses I can recall seeing.

I particularly liked the part about:"As a suggestion work with the local fire department to enhance personnel training, keep existing equipment in good repair and most particularly, coming up with a cost effective way to provide additional water to fire fighting apparatus for the fires to which thay they can respond."

Didn't the fire department once upon a time have a small pumping unit and extra hoses that could suck water out of the lagoon (or ocean) to help with dousing fires? Or was that just talk, a few years back?
Posted By: TravelinMan1

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:01 AM

4 feet of draft and 185 feet of distance on the cannon. That means that you should be able to put out most dock fires and zero home fires on the north end of the island.

although I am sure your heart is in the right place the idea is not very practical.

Good Luck.
Posted By: reaper

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:18 AM

A fire boat is exactly what the island needs for safety/fire/rescue issues. Not as large as the one pictured however.
There are many smaller models available that have about 1 foot of draft. There is equipment that can ensure an endless water supply and fire hose that can be extended from the boat up to 1,000+feet away flowing over 100gpm's.
The problem is the lack of governmental concern and funding for fire safety issues. I find that intersting but not surprising. Ambergris Caye has as many fires and other emergencies as a city 4 times the population. And good luck getting a fire truck past the bridge when you need one.
Purchasing, equiping, maintaning, training, boat storage and theft are all major concerns for a fire boat idea. But it is a good idea.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by seashell
Bear, that was one of your best and most diplomatic responses I can recall seeing.

I particularly liked the part about:"As a suggestion work with the local fire department to enhance personnel training, keep existing equipment in good repair and most particularly, coming up with a cost effective way to provide additional water to fire fighting apparatus for the fires to which thay they can respond."

Didn't the fire department once upon a time have a small pumping unit and extra hoses that could suck water out of the lagoon (or ocean) to help with dousing fires? Or was that just talk, a few years back?


Doesn't the township of San Pedro get donations from the community to upgrade equipment? Isn't there any like fund raising events to raise money to help to purchase equipment? That would assist in saving of property?
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by TravelinMan1
4 feet of draft and 185 feet of distance on the cannon. That means that you should be able to put out most dock fires and zero home fires on the north end of the island.

although I am sure your heart is in the right place the idea is not very practical.

Good Luck.


I have just been educated regarding the sea's around ambergris caye in regards to how shallow the water is and can see that the craft I had intended on using is out of the question for that application (lesson learned). So will have to look for a boat that will cruise in shallower waters. Thanks.
Posted By: reaper

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:26 AM

There are fundraisers for various concerns on the island.

I have spoken with the BTB, The Mayoress and the Minister of Tourism many times over the years about the lack of emergency services on the island. Many times...
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by reaper
A fire boat is exactly what the island needs for safety/fire/rescue issues. Not as large as the one pictured however.
There are many smaller models available that have about 1 foot of draft. There is equipment that can ensure an endless water supply and fire hose that can be extended from the boat up to 1,000+feet away flowing over 100gpm's.
The problem is the lack of governmental concern and funding for fire safety issues. I find that intersting but not surprising. Ambergris Caye has as many fires and other emergencies as a city 4 times the population. And good luck getting a fire truck past the bridge when you need one.
Purchasing, equiping, maintaning, training, boat storage and theft are all major concerns for a fire boat idea. But it is a good idea.


Reaper, Thanks for the input.

Yes, I have seen the smaller boats that would work well in and around ambergris caye, someone told me that the (river?) also known as the (cut?) is also very shallow, will it allow access to the west side (lagoon) or would one have to go all the way around the south tip of the island. I would enjoy working with the local land based fire dept coming up with ideas to increase the effecency(sp)of fighting fires. I love being a part of the community and trying to give back. I've been part of my local township volunteer fire dept for the past 2 years.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by reaper
There are fundraisers for various concerns on the island.

I have spoken with the BTB, The Mayoress and the Minister of Tourism many times over the years about the lack of emergency services on the island. Many times...


And with that I will assume it went upon deaf ears? But I would imagine (just an educated guess on my part and I don't know how educated it is) that it's about funding. In the little town I live in they arn't real crazy about change and we have to fight for every penny to buy new fire suits, hose's or what ever.
Posted By: reaper

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 03:08 AM

It is a funding issue. Sometimes the fire department doesn't have money to buy fuel for the fire truck. The San Pedro FD is also part of the national fire service, so there is little local control.
IMHO if the island took over the FD it could be a much more efficient service.
Posted By: Decompression

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 03:38 AM

I'm curious, with the recent fires, and unfortunate lack of water available by the San Pedro FD... has anyone looked into "water buffaloes" or "water wagons" for added capacity?

I realize many streets are narrow, but these trailer mounted water tanks can hold 500 gallons (some brands even more), are relatively cheap, and are quite maneuverable, especially by the fire truck, not engine.

DC


Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by SunDevil
Doesn't the township of San Pedro get donations from the community to upgrade equipment? Isn't there any like fund raising events to raise money to help to purchase equipment? That would assist in saving of property?


I'll have to deferr to those more knowledegable than I about local fundraising. Regrdless of source I doubt the community in general is in any position to make the kind of very substantial donations youre talking about. Poke around a bit and take a look at the kinds of funding associated with Belizean gov't public works projects and you'll get a sense of scale of the kind of expenditures your talking about.

Because basic public works projects haven't been funded it would, in my opinion, be very difficult to build the kind of interest and private particiapation necesssary for a project of this magnitude. Particularly one that does not demonstrate immediate visible "usefulness". I am not trying to minimize the potential loss of human life and property, or the horrors of fire in general that such a boat could safeguard against, I'm simply saying one is talking about putting this $$X.X million project up against far more tangible projects that kind of money could significanlty address.
Posted By: SFJeff

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 04:43 AM

You could save about $3,450,000 and put a Davey pump on a panga... or two.
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by SFJeff
You could save about $3,450,000 and put a Davey pump on a panga... or two.


There's the Caye solution
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by reaper
A fire boat is exactly what the island needs for safety/fire/rescue issues. Not as large as the one pictured however.
There are many smaller models available that have about 1 foot of draft. There is equipment that can ensure an endless water supply and fire hose that can be extended from the boat up to 1,000+feet away flowing over 100gpm's.
The problem is the lack of governmental concern and funding for fire safety issues. I find that intersting but not surprising. Ambergris Caye has as many fires and other emergencies as a city 4 times the population. And good luck getting a fire truck past the bridge when you need one.
Purchasing, equiping, maintaning, training, boat storage and theft are all major concerns for a fire boat idea. But it is a good idea.


Reaper,
Thanks so much for your input. Yes, since I've found out about the shallow water around Ambergris Caye I'm looking for ALLOT smaller boat, one that will fit under the bridge as well. The one I've found has the capacity to pump water from the fire boat to supply water to the land base fire truck. Investigating the distance of hose that can be used from the fire boat that the pump will support. Once water is supplied to the fire truck the truck can then use its pump to work the fire with unlimited water supply.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by reaper
It is a funding issue. Sometimes the fire department doesn't have money to buy fuel for the fire truck. The San Pedro FD is also part of the national fire service, so there is little local control.
IMHO if the island took over the FD it could be a much more efficient service.


I agree with you on the going "private" for the FD. Sometimes keeping the gov out is best.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/18/12 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by TravelinMan1


although I am sure your heart is in the right place the idea is not very practical.

Good Luck.


Am curious how much it cost to build the "Clock Tower" in town. Thats awesome..will give folks the time of day or night when the next fire starts.
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/19/12 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by SunDevil
Am curious how much it cost to build the "Clock Tower" in town. Thats awesome..will give folks the time of day or night when the next fire starts.


Bahahaha SunD you have no idea...I'd say most folks are hoping it is the next fire...any volunteers that showed up would probably add fuel once they realised what was burning...IMO the resulting bonfire would be the most benefit derived from the damned thing yet.
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/19/12 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bear
Originally Posted by SunDevil
Am curious how much it cost to build the "Clock Tower" in town. Thats awesome..will give folks the time of day or night when the next fire starts.


Bahahaha SunD you have no idea...I'd say most folks are hoping it is the next fire...any volunteers that showed up would probably add fuel once they realised what was burning...IMO the resulting bonfire would be the most benefit derived from the damned thing yet.


Ahhhhh ha ha ha ha I take it that it (the idea, money spent on it or actual building) was well received.
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/19/12 05:01 AM

"D" - All of the above
Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/21/12 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Bear
"D" - All of the above


I will indeed have to seek out this awesome structure and have my picture in front of it to have as a momentoe when I return home. cool
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/21/12 03:20 AM

Here Sun, just some background and an example of a primary need

//ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/428575/Prelim_Study_finds_San_Mateo_w.html#Post428575
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Fire Boat - 01/21/12 04:00 AM

Stand down, Bear.
Posted By: Bear

Re: Fire Boat - 01/21/12 04:41 AM

I agree Ernie, dead horse...simply a final case in punctuation point...SempF

Posted By: SunDevil

Re: Fire Boat - 01/23/12 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bear
Here Sun, just some background and an example of a primary need

//ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/428575/Prelim_Study_finds_San_Mateo_w.html#Post428575


Thanks Bear will have a look at all that's needed and work from there. I love being part of the community.
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