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Posted By: Marty Small Oil - 06/07/10 01:54 PM
by Mike Campbell

SMALL OIL COMES TO BELIZE

"If this was to happen to Belize, the prospect of 5,000 barrels per day of crude oil becoming available after a couple of months might well make the GOB declare national mourning for a day, and quickly change that for a month-long fiesta.

The pollution would get rid of seaside-monopolising tourists, regrettably kill any wildlife that remains after they have already destroyed the mangrove protection, but then allow the long-term natural recuperative process to kick in, and GOB to substitute a major stable revenue source for touristic whimsy."
Roaring Rocks 1 May 2010

"Personally I wouldn't use any dispersant at all like many countries around the world, but then I guess the whining from the USA would be deafening. I would rather see the beaches and wetlands coated in oil and let evaporation and bugs get rid of it. There is no question that you get more dead birds and reeds that way as well as some dead fish, but it all becomes compost or food within days anyway. Dispersants shift the problem out of sight but make the problems worse in the long term."
RigRat 31 May 2010

These two quotes are directly copied from a local message board (www.belizeforum.com) concerning Offshore Oil Exploration in Belize, the first was posted by RigRat on 31 May 2010 and the second by Roaring Rocks on 1 May 2010. RigRat is Jerry Larder, a Petroleum engineer with over 35 years of experience. He is the President and CEO of Welltech Group LLC which is an independent energy consultancy. The main focus of Welltech is to provide oil companies and governments with engineering expertise and is a permanent resident of Belize.

Roaring Rocks who is another oil industry professional lives both in the UK and near Belmopan but as of this date has refused to identify himself or his status in the country.

Mr. Jerry Larder states that Gulf spill is only the 40th largest spill in the world. He states "But the absolute root cause for this disaster was the government of the USA and the MMS for allowing a well with such a poor design to be drilled in the first place their slack supervision, and poor legislation."
While acknowledging that the GOB has to the best of his knowledge no viable emergency response plan and insufficient technical ability to inspect off shore drilling operations, Mr Larder did not respond when asked whether or not he would recommend proceeding with offshore drilling in Belize without these measures in place. He did say "most governments worldwide insist that oil companies have an emergency response plan. And they ensure it is in place before any drilling commences." Additionally he stated "...oil already surpasses Tourism as Belize's number one foreign currency earner. I also believe that oil and tourism can peacefully co-exist, and I firmly believe that Tourism does immeasurably more, and visible, damage to the environment. I would suggest that it would be an incredibly dimwitted thing to do to jeopardize oil exploration for the sake of tourism, Oil exploration doesn't generally rip out the mangroves, trample on the reefs, and the carbon footprint of their activities is minuscule compared to tourism."

However another oil industry professional with ties to Belize volunteered this "If I was to make a sweeping statement, I'd be inclined to urge Belize to get some outside help, since I do not believe there is the level of expertise necessary to properly oversee the proposed operation currently in the country.
Having said that, I would not expect the actual drilling operation to be anything but a routine job.

But - as we've seen - things can go wrong. My concern would be that there is almost no equipment available to tackle any kind of emergency, in the unlikely event that it is needed. Worse than that, since the amount of oil that I would expect to be found (if any) would be relatively small - it would not make financial sense for whoever would be responsible for cleaning up a spill (or whatever) to do so with any level of completeness.

Finally, it seems to me that every single entity above a certain size that is doing or has done business in Belize has managed to negotiate terms and conditions that leave Belize with little benefit from them being there. I would hope that should this exploration go ahead that Belize would get a better cut of the profits than it has negotiated for itself in the past."

"I have been saddened by the willingness of certain companies operating in Belize to maximize profits either to the detriment of the Belizean people or without adding to the quality of life of the people in whose country they operate. This, unfortunately, is in the nature of business. However, it is the business and purpose of the Belizean government to ensure that Belize also profits from these enterprises. This obligation appears to me to have been sadly neglected in the past and my fear is that it will not be met in the future."

"Nobody in Belize has the equipment or resources to tackle an oil spill. Neither does the government have the necessary finances to do this. Therefore it would necessarily fall to the company who makes the spill to clean it up. However, since the consequence of not doing a good job are likely to be far less than doing a good job - there would be little reason for the oil company to meet it's obligations. In the USA the consequence would be to stop that company from operating there anymore. This would be a huge loss to the company. In Belize they'd just laugh and wave out of the aircraft window as they head off.

In addition - this will not be a huge corporation with massive resources doing the drilling - or I very much doubt it. It is more likely to be a fairly small operation that has limited resources.
In the case of BP - it is big enough to be self insured. It can bear massive costs. In the case of Anadarko (who are 25% owners of the GOM well) although they are a large oil company, they are still not large enough to be self insured. Although this insurance was thought to be large enough for purpose - it's now clear that it will only pay for two months of the cleanup.
The lesson to be learned here is that whoever is doing the drilling must have a huge amount of insurance in order to pay for the cleanup.

And - they better have a plan, because you can bet your bottom dollar than nobody in the GOB has the slightest clue on how to tackle an oil spill."


"I, like you, believe that the best results for Belize will come from Tourism. It is my opinion that no enterprise should be allowed to operate in Belize that has a substantial risk of putting this valuable resource and revenue stream at jeopardy."
Posted By: bywarren Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 03:58 PM
Great analytical approach to the question as opposed to forming an opinion before understanding and evaluating all of the pros and cons.
Now let's hope those so adamant about supporting tourism will be as forceful in efforts to insure that industry does not continue to do unnecessary harm to the environment and future of Belize.
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell

"If this was to happen to Belize, the prospect of 5,000 barrels per day of crude oil becoming available after a couple of months might well make the GOB declare national mourning for a day, and quickly change that for a month-long fiesta.
The pollution would get rid of seaside-monopolising tourists, regrettably kill any wildlife that remains after they have already destroyed the mangrove protection, but then allow the long-term natural recuperative process to kick in, and GOB to substitute a major stable revenue source for touristic whimsy."
Roaring Rocks 1 May 2010

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
"Personally I wouldn't use any dispersant at all like many countries around the world, but then I guess the whining from the USA would be deafening. I would rather see the beaches and wetlands coated in oil and let evaporation and bugs get rid of it. There is no question that you get more dead birds and reeds that way as well as some dead fish, but it all becomes compost or food within days anyway. Dispersants shift the problem out of sight but make the problems worse in the long term."
RigRat 31 May 2010
Yes, dispersants make the oil sink, the oil then coats the corals and seagrasses and kills the lot. Plus it is toxic for a period of time. Wetlands, birds, fish, and reeds all regenerate a lot faster than coral and seagrass, plus when the oil is exposed to air it degrades far faster as well as allowing aerobic bacteria to break it down. Plus if it is onshore you can use mechanical means to remove far more of it than if it coats the seabed.
Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
These two quotes are directly copied from a local message board (www.belizeforum.com) concerning Offshore Oil Exploration in Belize, the first was posted by RigRat on 31 May 2010 and the second by Roaring Rocks on 1 May 2010. RigRat is Jerry Larder, a Petroleum engineer with over 35 years of experience. He is the President and CEO of Welltech Group LLC which is an independent energy consultancy. The main focus of Welltech is to provide oil companies and governments with engineering expertise and is a permanent resident of Belize.

Roaring Rocks who is another oil industry professional lives both in the UK and near Belmopan but as of this date has refused to identify himself or his status in the country.

Actually this is totally wrong. Roaring Rocks has never been involved in the oil industry in his life, and has never claimed to have been. He also didn't refuse to identify himself, he just didn't bother to answer Mike's question. In fact he didn't answer any of Mike's questions.

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
Mr. Jerry Larder states that Gulf spill is only the 40th largest spill in the world. He states "But the absolute root cause for this disaster was the government of the USA and the MMS for allowing a well with such a poor design to be drilled in the first place their slack supervision, and poor legislation."
While acknowledging that the GOB has to the best of his knowledge no viable emergency response plan and insufficient technical ability to inspect off shore drilling operations, Mr Larder did not respond when asked whether or not he would recommend proceeding with offshore drilling in Belize without these measures in place.

Well I hope that people will actually go and see what I did write. I most certainly did not say that the GOB had no viable emergency response plan, nor did I say they had insufficient technical ability to inspect offshore drilling operations. What I did actually say was that the Government of Belize, like the vast majority of governments in the world, was responsible for legislation that requires Oil Companies themselves to have an emergency response plan and they government was in charge of ensuring it was a viable plan. This really is media distortion on a grand scale.
Also there is quite a bit of applied innuendo here. Of course I wouldn't recommend that drilling should commence in Belize without a plan in place. That is why I didn't say it should continue without these measures in place.
Originally Posted by Martyby Mike Campbell
He did say "most governments worldwide insist that oil companies have an emergency response plan. And they ensure it is in place before any drilling commences." Additionally he stated "...oil already surpasses Tourism as Belize's number one foreign currency earner.

I actually did clarify that and said that oil production is the Belize Government's number one foreign currency earner.

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
I also believe that oil and tourism can peacefully co-exist, and I firmly believe that Tourism does immeasurably more, and visible, damage to the environment. I would suggest that it would be an incredibly dimwitted thing to do to jeopardize oil exploration for the sake of tourism, Oil exploration doesn't generally rip out the mangroves, trample on the reefs, and the carbon footprint of their activities is minuscule compared to tourism."

Yes, I did say this


Originally Posted by Marty
However another oil industry professional with ties to Belize volunteered this "If I was to make a sweeping statement, I'd be inclined to urge Belize to get some outside help, since I do not believe there is the level of expertise necessary to properly oversee the proposed operation currently in the country.
Having said that, I would not expect the actual drilling operation to be anything but a routine job.

Well I also said pretty much this as well.

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
But - as we've seen - things can go wrong. My concern would be that there is almost no equipment available to tackle any kind of emergency, in the unlikely event that it is needed. Worse than that, since the amount of oil that I would expect to be found (if any) would be relatively small - it would not make financial sense for whoever would be responsible for cleaning up a spill (or whatever) to do so with any level of completeness.

Well this may be your opinion, but legislation says otherwise. Anyway, Nature will do the majority of the clean up given time, not humans.
Also the statement that Belize has almost no equipment available to clean up oil spills is incredibly disingenuous. If an oil company wants to start drilling, then their Emergency Response Plan ensures that this equipment is in place before the drilling starts. Of course there is no equipment here at present. Where are the rigs drilling at present? When they arrive, so does the clean up gear.

Originally Posted by Martyby Mike Campbell
Finally, it seems to me that every single entity above a certain size that is doing or has done business in Belize has managed to negotiate terms and conditions that leave Belize with little benefit from them being there. I would hope that should this exploration go ahead that Belize would get a better cut of the profits than it has negotiated for itself in the past."

Now you are talking. The PSA that BNE works under is ridiculously generous. Oil companies have better terms in Belize than in any country I have ever operated in.

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
"I have been saddened by the willingness of certain companies operating in Belize to maximize profits either to the detriment of the Belizean people or without adding to the quality of life of the people in whose country they operate. This, unfortunately, is in the nature of business. However, it is the business and purpose of the Belizean government to ensure that Belize also profits from these enterprises. This obligation appears to me to have been sadly neglected in the past and my fear is that it will not be met in the future."


Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
"Nobody in Belize has the equipment or resources to tackle an oil spill. Neither does the government have the necessary finances to do this.

This is absolutely not the case. BNE has a warehouse full of oil clean up equipment.
Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
Therefore it would necessarily fall to the company who makes the spill to clean it up.
As is totally normal in all countries.

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
However, since the consequence of not doing a good job are likely to be far less than doing a good job - there would be little reason for the oil company to meet it's obligations.

Apart from the presidents and CEO's going to jail, having their assets seized, claiming on their insurance to pay for an independent clean up company, the list of consequences to failing to do is long. The money is also there to perform the clean up. Don't let them leave until its all fixed. In Saudi Arabia when this happens, all the senior guys are thrown in jail until the problem is sorted out.

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
In the USA the consequence would be to stop that company from operating there anymore.
Not hardly, Exxon still operates there. As are most of all the other oil companies who have ever had spills.


Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
This would be a huge loss to the company. In Belize they'd just laugh and wave out of the aircraft window as they head off.
Not if they were in jail they wouldn't

Originally Posted by Marty by Mike Campbell
In addition - this will not be a huge corporation with massive resources doing the drilling - or I very much doubt it. It is more likely to be a fairly small operation that has limited resources.
In the case of BP - it is big enough to be self insured. It can bear massive costs. In the case of Anadarko (who are 25% owners of the GOM well) although they are a large oil company, they are still not large enough to be self insured. Although this insurance was thought to be large enough for purpose - it's now clear that it will only pay for two months of the cleanup.
The lesson to be learned here is that whoever is doing the drilling must have a huge amount of insurance in order to pay for the cleanup.

Well this is also a bit backwards. they can't drill if they don't have the insurance. Anadarko doesn't have to pay for all of the clean up, as all parties are jointly and severally responsible. Anadarko can easily pay for two months of the clean up which is proportionate to their share. They can also at any time back out of the agreement, but then they lose their share in this very prolific block. Also the statement that small companies are likely to drill in Belizean waters is true. However their discoveries are also proportionate, and likely to be low pressure, low deliverability wells that are immeasureably easier to cap should a disaster happen

Originally Posted by Martyby Mike Campbell
And - they better have a plan, because you can bet your bottom dollar than nobody in the GOB has the slightest clue on how to tackle an oil spill."

Well again this is a ridiculous statement. No government on earth knows exactly what should be done. Especially the USA which has seen a catalogue of errors in the government response. The National Response Center claims it is in sole charge of cleaning up oil spills. They were also in charge of having all of the oil spill equipment ready to go. It was in the original well plan that the USA government would take total charge of any spill. And what has happened? BP has had to do the vast majority of the work for them. Most sensible governments realise that they don't have the expertise to clean up any spill, which is why they hand the responsibility to the oil companies. The oil companies in turn have contracts with professional oil spill clean up people who do this for a living nearly every day. They do have the training and the resources.
Again Belize is no different from any company in the world. The government doesn't need to do the oil spill. It just needs to be visibly in charge of ensuring it is done, and call on expert advice as and when needed.

Originally Posted by Martyby Mike Campbell
"I, like you, believe that the best results for Belize will come from Tourism. It is my opinion that no enterprise should be allowed to operate in Belize that has a substantial risk of putting this valuable resource and revenue stream at jeopardy."


This is just far too emotive. have any of the previous wells drilled in Belize ruined the tourist industry? Have drilling destroyed the tourist business in Trinidad? Barbados? Cuba? The USA (slightly damaged admitted, but it will recover quickly), Thailand? Malaysia? Australia? The UK? Norway? Holland? The Fiji islands? Sao Tome and Principe? No.
Remember that oil drilling in Belizean waters will never result in a spill coming anywhere close to the disaster in the Gulf. The chances are tiny, the risk is negligible but the rewards are great. Even before the drilling starts, Belize has been paid considerable sums just to ward the blocks, as well as getting money for training, as well as yearly block renewal fees. And let's face it. They aren't going to find anything of any consequence there anyway. Geology is for the most part wrong. That's why you don't have the big boys here.
Posted By: Peter Jones Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Rigrat
Originally Posted by Martyby Mike Campbell
Finally, it seems to me that every single entity above a certain size that is doing or has done business in Belize has managed to negotiate terms and conditions that leave Belize with little benefit from them being there. I would hope that should this exploration go ahead that Belize would get a better cut of the profits than it has negotiated for itself in the past."

Now you are talking. The PSA that BNE works under is ridiculously generous. Oil companies have better terms in Belize than in any country I have ever operated in

One of the most crucial points here. If confused by the network of responsibilities, and by the obfuscation introduced by many of the big players both here and overseas, follow the money. You have to wonder why the various Belize officials who give away such generous terms do it. What's in it for them?

The other key issue is the one of insurance. BP is actually the only company I can think of whose pledge of "self insurance" I would be inclined to accept. Partly because of the highly honourably way they have conducted themselves with the Gulf of Mexico disaster, when it's quite clear that a large part of the responsibility actually belongs elsewhere. Nonetheless, BP have picked up the tab. For ALL other companies I would look for unlimited insurance cover at Lloyds and backed up by their parent government. Lloyds because despite monstrous losses in times past they have never sought to liquidate themselves and thereby avoid their debts. Government cover because we could be looking at truly astronomical sums that even Lloyds couldn't meet.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 09:28 PM
Please read Rigs quotes that he disagrees with and remember that I did not write them, only the first few, the others are direct quotes from another oil guy who approached me by PM and gave permission to use his statement. My original paper makes that clear.
Posted By: TheRealDeal Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 09:39 PM
Oil co-exists with greed, pure and simple!
Oil makes money..
The big boys will say whatever suits them to smooth the turmoil or distrust.
If drilling were to take place offshore Belize it would only be a matter of time before a spill takes place and this would be with the bigger operators like the BP's, a smaller cheaper route will obviously bring more spills and pollution.. and sooner than may be the case.
Posted By: TheRealDeal Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 09:50 PM
If the Belize government allows the operator to drill, no amount of insurance is going to be of benefit in the longterm.
At the end of the day, they will have to weigh the pro's and con's of tourism for eternity verus a reservior that has great potential to bring unlimited wealth to a nation.
There are other options.. it depends where they intend to drill.. if it is fairly close to the shoreline then they could drill "fishhook" wells. The name implies the look or plan of the well, usually drilled from land out to sea. The benefit here is two fold, one; the cost will be a lot less, two; if there is a spill from the rig itself then it can be controlled on land.. most small spills come from the rigs and their plumbing..
Posted By: Barnacle Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 09:59 PM
i seem to remember a certain hydroelectric dam that was to ease Belize's dependency on Mexican power, and lower Belizeans power bills.
instead,, look who makes money and who's bills were raised.

i don't trust any of them. not one.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 10:12 PM
Gosh unlimited wealth sure does sound good, I think i'll just wait for the mother ship, it will come first.
Posted By: TheRealDeal Re: Small Oil - 06/07/10 10:27 PM
Mike, you are correct, that is the way the government will be sold on this, the operators will sell it as hitting the motherload!
Posted By: seashell Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 01:52 AM
Perhaps I have misunderstood you, Rigrat.

"Under joint and several liability, a claimant may pursue an obligation against any one party as if they were jointly liable and it becomes the responsibility of the defendants to sort out their respective proportions of liability and payment. This means that if the claimant pursues one defendant and receives payment, that defendant must then pursue the other obligors for a contribution to their share of the liability.

Joint and several liability is most relevant in tort claims, whereby a plaintiff may recover all the damages from any of the defendants regardless of their individual share of the liability. The rule is often applied in negligence cases, though it is sometimes invoked in other areas of law."

IMNSHO, every major company involved in a joint venture, should be prepared to take the full burden. Any one company can find itself being sued for the full amount.

Here at home, it often occurs that small oil company with small working interest, as partner with larger oil company, may not fully insure itself. Large oil company prepare themselves to be the party ultimately held responsible for the burden. However, should small oil company be partnered with smaller oil company(s), and also be operator, the small oil company as operator, should ensure that it is insured for the full burden, in the event of mishap.


Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Please read Rigs quotes that he disagrees with and remember that I did not write them, only the first few, the others are direct quotes from another oil guy who approached me by PM and gave permission to use his statement. My original paper makes that clear.

Interesting how you insisted on knowing everything about me, and were willing to shout it from the rooftops, and yet this other oil professional is totally nameless and invisible
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 03:58 AM
Originally Posted by TheRealDeal
Oil co-exists with greed, pure and simple!
Oil makes money..
The big boys will say whatever suits them to smooth the turmoil or distrust.
If drilling were to take place offshore Belize it would only be a matter of time before a spill takes place and this would be with the bigger operators like the BP's, a smaller cheaper route will obviously bring more spills and pollution.. and sooner than may be the case.

There was only one thing correct in your post. Oil makes money. It is how the money is distributed that needs to be focused upon.
The rest of your post was without any merit.
I actually have an incredible amount of data that will prove you to be totally incorrect. Please reply posting your data that.

"If drilling were to take place offshore Belize it would only be a matter of time before a spill takes place and this would be with the bigger operators like the BP's, a smaller cheaper route will obviously bring more spills and pollution.. and sooner than may be the case."

Or was this just an opinion?
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 04:11 AM
Originally Posted by seashell
Perhaps I have misunderstood you, Rigrat.
IMNSHO, every major company involved in a joint venture, should be prepared to take the full burden. Any one company can find itself being sued for the full amount.
Here at home, it often occurs that small oil company with small working interest, as partner with larger oil company, may not fully insure itself. Large oil company prepare themselves to be the party ultimately held responsible for the burden. However, should small oil company be partnered with smaller oil company(s), and also be operator, the small oil company as operator, should ensure that it is insured for the full burden, in the event of mishap.

No, I don't think you misunderstood me. Joint and several liability is how it is. However I cannot agree that each and every company involved should be insured for the full amount of the clean up. This would immediately stop any small independents from entering into the oil business and it would be left to a few giant oil companies to dictate to the world what would happen.
As only the operator signs the PSA, then only the operator can be forced to take out full insurance for the cost of clean up operations. If the government suspects there will be uninsured partners, then they can take immediate steps to cancel a PSA or will not sign it in the first place. Likewise an operator will not come to the negotiating table if his partners are not, or they are under, insured.
Under the terms of most PSA's oil companies have to pay into a fund to meet the costs pollution incidents. This is true of Belizean PSA's as well. Governments take a portion of this money to re-insure against catastrophe.
I personally do not know of a single incident worldwide ever of there not being enough money to clear up an oil spill.
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by TheRealDeal

There are other options.. it depends where they intend to drill.. if it is fairly close to the shoreline then they could drill "fishhook" wells.
Never actually heard this term before. I thought a fishhook curved around and almost came back on itself. Are you talking about directional wells?
Originally Posted by TheRealDeal

The name implies the look or plan of the well, usually drilled from land out to sea. The benefit here is two fold, one; the cost will be a lot less, two; if there is a spill from the rig itself then it can be controlled on land.. most small spills come from the rigs and their plumbing..

Well I have to say that I don't believe this is actually necessarily the case. A directional well requires a rig with far more horsepower, and these are not as common as conventional land drilling rigs. plus the most expensive items you have when drilling a well are the casing and the mud. Because both of these are greatly increased when you drill at high angles due to the increase in measured depth. Then to increase your costs you have the directional drilling tools, and there is also the increased risk of wellbore instability when you deviate from the vertical.
So, in many cases it is far cheaper to get a swamp barge rig and drill straight down than it is to drill directionally.
Then we come to your point that most small spills come from the rigs and their plumbing. This is not the case either. The vast majority of oil spills come from transportation of oil.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 02:28 PM
As I recall these directional wells were first developed to drill from a lease site to obtain oil from a nearby site that they did not have lease on. Oil company ethics.
Posted By: seashell Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 03:33 PM
Not necessarily, but to drill from a surface location more conducive to the operation, in a surface environment that didn't offer lots of choices. Now many wells can be drilled from one pad, and that eases the footprint and surface damage. Further, directional drills can become horizontal drills which more effectively drain tight pools and such.
Posted By: TheRealDeal Re: Small Oil - 06/08/10 07:46 PM
Rigrat, Your incredible data no doubt comes from incredible sources? I would imagine that after 20 odd years in the oil industry you are aware that a lot is covered up?...a lot of the data is fined tuned to accomodate whoever or whomever may need it. You work in the oilfields and have never heard of a fish hook well? Have you heard of multi-laterals? Or ERD wells?

The pro's of a land rig versus an offshore rig are much better than the con's, the obvious point I am trying to make is pollution in the water versus on land. Do you believe that if you have an offshore rig, jackup, semi or platform, that it is going to be cheaper than a land rig?
It depends on the formation they would be drilling but they could use a push the bit RSS instead of a point the bit RSS to drill a fishook well. At the end of the day there are a lot of tangibles and we are just throwing stakes into the fire here. No one knows if they intend to drill, where or how.
Personally I would much rather like to see a SantaFe, H&P or Cliffs land rig with a few thousand horses drilling on land than a Chinese jack up at sea..
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/09/10 04:30 PM
Amen to all of that. Unfortunately man destroys everything he touches and about all we can do is try to do as little damage as possible as we stumble around. The only exception seems to be the American Indian tribes who lived for thousands of years with out destroying anything. This was up until about 150 or less years ago when progress came. By the late 1800's they had killed or captured all the real owners of the land and industrialization and real progress was able to flourish. Sad to think only 150 years have passed and we have filled the ocean with plastic and polluted our lakes and rivers and the air we breath. Now we have made it so the people from the Gulf cannt even eat the fish from the sea which is a right granted by God
I am doing what I can on as many fronts as I can. Most of my battles I am fighting in San Pedro because it is the frontline and the degradation of the environment is affecting us all. It has been brought about only in the last 4-5 years as a result of our current Town Council not complying with the Master Plan. Before that we had a more or less stable situation. The Master Plan called for an orderly development making sure municipal services were in place. Of course that did not happen, not because of greed from local folks but greed by big foreign investors and the govt jumping in bed with them. Fortunately because of careful husbandry Hol Chan is in good shape. Thats after we had to stop the cruise ship visitors from coming. We need all the help we can get as we are fighting the Town Board, Minister of Tourism and the meaningless DOE as well as who ever is Minister of Lands depending on the party in power. It seems to have been going on since Dito Juan.
I read the other board a couple of times and when I saw statements that were so counter-intuitive and the way anyone with an opposing view was shouted down I had to research as I absolutely hate to be factually wrong and just hate to see people bullied.
My first inclination was that this group was on BP international payroll doing PR as they seemed uninterested in any real dialogue and BP does have a huge internet PR program. Rig has said he does not work for BP currently and I accept that. Does look like he knows where his bread is buttered though.
I am much less opposed to oil companies than he may think. I own stock in offshore service industry sector which I am holding.
It should be an easy compromise. Allow drilling MOST places but not in particularly sensitive areas. That would include all offshore Belize. Its not like were sitting on the biggest oil reserve in the world and none off us sees much benefit from the existing operations.
San Pedro contributes several hundred million dollars to the GOVT annually in taxes. We receive back a subvention of $69,000 annually and have 1/2 the national average of police per person. We also receive none of the Works budget. There is a chance the roads they are driving on was paid for by San Pedro Town as are their police.
We are sitting on the largest barrier reef in the hemisphere and home to 3 of the only 4 atolls in this hemisphere. GLOBALlY UNIQUE. I would think there were other places less sensitive that could be explored. Its not like the amount of oil we could possibly produce would even be noticed on the world market. Drill everywhere seems to be a non-compromising all or nothing type position. Rig's contention that oil does not damage coral is ridiculous and cannot be supported. We cannot put our lives on pause while the reef renews itself.
Tourism has pulled Belize out of the dark ages. A large amount of that is because of our reef and fishing. Sustainable ecotourism development requires careful planning and there is much more expertise in private sector than public sector. There will always be compromise as there is no zero impact development. The govts eagerness to accommodate developers regardless of any environmental concerns is a slippery slope. The impacts of Precedent are never considered and San Pedro and North Ambergris Caye have received more than our fair share of this tragedy and dont want another.
Rather than criticizing they could please join the fight to make change happen. The govt attitude toward development is a dangerous path and is an indication of their attitude toward petroleum exploration. Dont think of the impacts of one well think of the impact of 50 or more wells. It would seem inevitable that there be some problem probably based on human factor.
This whole business of tourism/oil company is the pot calling the kettle black. We all need to work together to protect our environment. The cycle of "he did it so why cannt I" must be stopped.
Rig's stubborn attitude seems to reflect the same attitude as the human conflict that lead to the Gulf tragedy. He seems willing to twist anything to fit his view. That seems also to be the case of some companies in the Gulf as well as they play a most interesting blame game.
Oh yeah, Rig has 35 years in the petroleum industry and 10 years running his own hotel.
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/09/10 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by TheRealDeal
Rigrat, Your incredible data no doubt comes from incredible sources? I would imagine that after 20 odd years in the oil industry you are aware that a lot is covered up?...a lot of the data is fined tuned to accomodate whoever or whomever may need it. You work in the oilfields and have never heard of a fish hook well? Have you heard of multi-laterals? Or ERD wells?


Multi-laterals yes, what category are you talking about?
ERD wells yes, Personally drilled many of them, and at one time my team held the world record. Not 20 years in the oil business, but over 35. And no, I am not aware that a lot is covered up. What is covered up and where?
Fish hook wells? Now why in the world would you drill out to sea from land, steer the well around and come back uner the land again. You don't actually have a clue do you?

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal
The pro's of a land rig versus an offshore rig are much better than the con's, the obvious point I am trying to make is pollution in the water versus on land. Do you believe that if you have an offshore rig, jackup, semi or platform, that it is going to be cheaper than a land rig?

Shallow water Jack up rigs and swamp barge rigs for vertical hole drilling are cheaper than large horsepower onshore rigs that drill horizontal wells.

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal
It depends on the formation they would be drilling but they could use a push the bit RSS instead of a point the bit RSS to drill a fishook well. At the end of the day there are a lot of tangibles and we are just throwing stakes into the fire here. No one knows if they intend to drill, where or how.
Personally I would much rather like to see a SantaFe, H&P or Cliffs land rig with a few thousand horses drilling on land than a Chinese jack up at sea..

Well shows how little you know then Santa Fe has not existed as a drilling company since around 2000. Helmerich and Payne's rigs are mainly 1500 horsepower and I certainly wouldn't hire one of those to drill an ERD well. They have got about 15 rigs in the 2-3000 hp range that might do the job, but I don't know if a single one would be able to handle XT 57 pipe. Those rigs are all more expensive than a swamp barge rig.
And Cliffs Drilling? Ok now I know you are full of it. They haven't even existed since the mid nineties, and even R&B that bought them doesn't exist any more.
Then more bullshit seeps to the surface.
Originally Posted by TheRealDeal
It depends on the formation they would be drilling but they could use a push the bit RSS instead of a point the bit RSS to drill a fishook well.

Have you been desperately searching the internet for industry buzzwords, and then stringing them together to try and sound knowledgeable?
Maybe you worked as a roustabout ten years ago, maybe you have a friend in the oil patch, but I don't think it will be wise to try and mamaguy someone who lives eats and shits this sort of stuff every single day.
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/09/10 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Drill everywhere seems to be a non-compromising all or nothing type position. Rig's contention that oil does not damage coral is ridiculous and cannot be supported.

OK Mike, where have I ever said that oil does not damage coral? For every one place where I have said oil does not damage coral, I will give you two places where I said it normally kills it. (including in this very forum when I replied to your Small Oil post)
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Rig's stubborn attitude seems to reflect the same attitude as the human conflict that lead to the Gulf tragedy. He seems willing to twist anything to fit his view.

Don't talk to me about twisting things Mike. You have just stated that I said that oil doesn't damage coral.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Dont think of the impacts of one well think of the impact of 50 or more wells. It would seem inevitable that there be some problem probably based on human factor.
Well over sixty wells have already been drilled in Belize so far with very little environmental damage.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/09/10 10:29 PM
At last we agree that oil exposure in any amount damages coral, sometimes fatally but sometimes after many years a semblance of normality returns unless the pollution is too severe. The economic impact of that on our community would be devastating. We would not recover even though the coral might. I have been trying to make you understand that but either you dont understand or dont think its a good arguemnet.
The first diver that reports online that there is oil damage on the reef could easily hurt us badly. Right now we fight our govt for messing up our environment. Tourists are complaining over the change in water quality in front of San Pedro, Thats because of the dredging that has been allowed over the last several years. Now I am going to be able to point proudly to the oil well on the horizon and tell my guests that it used to be a world heritage site. There is really no pressing reason to drill offshore Belize but many reasons not too. Decisions get made without consultation and create problems. Thats why it has come to this. The biggest stake holder besides the reef side communities is the children of San Pedro and Belize who have never been consulted but it is they that will live with this long after we are dead. Of all the wells drilled only a few the last few could produce. If there were huge deposits of oil under Belize that will make us all rich I believe all the major companies including Shell who has drilled on North Ambergris Caye would have noticed it. Any deposits we have dont even rate on the world scale but you would risk our reef to get them. Its not the science that is flawed. For those that dont know cooking oil takes off tar from your feet. Why we would even consider this is a mystery. Not really.
Posted By: Peter Jones Re: Small Oil - 06/09/10 11:15 PM
So Mike, given that permits to drill have apparently already been sold and the money probably already either spent or otherwise appropriated, what do you in fact expect to happen?
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/09/10 11:47 PM
Evidently the fee was ten cents an acre. Actually I have about as much sympathy for them as I do for land speculators on A.C. Let them sue to get their pennies back. We could make the environmental hoops too hard to get through, not give seismology permits. cannt drill without seismology.
I am trying to come up with a plan for us that would address the land speculation here. Buying a piece of land gives you no right to build on it. I would think that buying an oil lease would not exempt one from the environmental laws regulating it even if they changed. Our govt seems adroit in side-stepping obligations. Biggest problem is my friend for 20 years Rodwell Williams is CEO of Princees and is Deans partner, law partner, as I am sure you know. Hope the will of the people is respected..
Posted By: bywarren Re: Small Oil - 06/10/10 01:28 AM
Mike, I know you always try and get your facts correct. I do not believe Rodwell Williams is CEO of Princess. Although I do understand the concern with the connection to Barrow and the goverment as he does represent them and I believe holds the position of secretary.
If I am correct and he is not CEO, portraying him as being in charge and benefiting directly is unfair until proven otherwise.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/10/10 03:33 AM
Read that on line when he got shot, one of our Belize papers or some such. He is my friend although I rarely see him and I wish him all the best he has helped me when I needed it the most. He is also CEO of BEL. The oil connection is inappropriate to say the least. The info I read may not have been accurate regardless sec or ceo, not good situation. Hard times for all. Worst is it appears to be a hit of some kind and he has practiced criminal law very little in a long time. Belize has been the playground of biggish and big businessmen for a long time. Tons of money have been made from Belize but very little reinvested here. Its all very disturbing.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/10/10 03:35 AM
Unfortunately the Barrow & Williams law firm does directly profit even if they are only attorneys it is a big no no.
Posted By: TheRealDeal Re: Small Oil - 06/10/10 05:58 AM

I guess I don't know, I just drill them... drilled many fishhook wells for Shell..all on a pad system, worked very nicely. Shell was happy as pig in shit.. still are... Deutag was the drilling company, malaysian drill crew and german TP etc..it was a good time by all, all successful wells, that I was on anyway..


"Shallow water Jack up rigs and swamp barge rigs for vertical hole drilling are cheaper than large horsepower onshore rigs that drill horizontal wells."

Vertical holes are cheaper anywhere, are they going to only drill vertical wells?

The type of land rigs I mentioned are more expensive than a swamp barge, can't figure why your so negative and derogatory on what I have said, I menitoned names that were around years ago, that was who I worked with mainly, anything wrong with that?
Would it be better if I said Anadarko or Maersk..or Talisman..Global Santa-fe what does that matter?
Crap man Total Fina Elf who I was with in Africa, changed From Total Fina Elf to Total Fina then just Total..

I wouldn't mind chatting to you off line, "threads" always seems to get out of hand..
You tinking I mamaguyin you man, where u from trini?

Posted By: bywarren Re: Small Oil - 06/10/10 01:02 PM
Sorry Mike, got to disagree. Being paid as an attorney to represent is not ethically or morally wrong.
Speculation of motives, especially politicians, is natural. Accusations without facts to substantiate is unfair.
Far be it from me to defend Belize politicians and attorneys as a group based on past experience. But I draw the line at accusing any one individual until the facts support that.
On a personal note, Mr. Williams is the attorney for the Belize Bank who I currently have a legal dispute with. I believe the bank's position is not only wrong legally but also morally, not that some banks necessarily have morals, but that, in my mind, does not make Mr. Williams an immoral person.
Posted By: Mike Campbell Re: Small Oil - 06/10/10 10:28 PM
I am not making comment on Rodwell's morals. He has represented me in court and has opposed me in court.It is highly improper for the PM's law firm to be representing anyone doing business with the govt. This is a practice that has been going on for a long time in Belize. You get the PM's law firm to represent you. It is wrong and should be against the law.They are a very prosperous firm, why do something that is questionable unless you stand to gain. Our circle with politicians lawyers and businessmen remains unbroken.
Posted By: Rigrat Re: Small Oil - 06/11/10 06:08 AM
In trut I cyah see why all dis bacchanal fuh. Too many macocious nowherian pissin tails raggin an tryin tuh sampat me cos dey tink I bein sprangalang. Well I eh payin tax fuh mih mout
I sick a chupidee quenk givin me a cut eye and tellin me this hole ting with government full ah one han cyah clap shit. Allah dis commesse cause by a bunch a bobolee believin some cunumunu wa say oil be e death a allayuh.
Posted By: TheRealDeal Re: Small Oil - 06/11/10 05:03 PM
Boy, alla dem make me laugh nah, buh man, you sure take de cake.. good one bree.. ah really rollin now..
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