Land compensation...???

Posted By: Ecoman

Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 06:15 PM;realattid=7987a27bcc82966d_0.4&zw

Anyone curious about the land compensation that David MItchell got for GBE should check the link above
Posted By: JZB

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 06:27 PM

Its asking me to sign in...?
Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 06:52 PM

this link isn't working even after i sign in.
Posted By: Hon

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 07:04 PM

That's because you are being directed to sign in to Ecoman's account to view the article. I'm guessing the link is in one of Ecoman's emails and he mistakenly posted a link to a personal email rather than to the article.
Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 07:09 PM

OK Ecoman whats your user name and password???
we promise not to tell David Mitchell.
Posted By: Cayemen

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 07:20 PM

Ecoman, please install a PDF Printer, then you can print the document or the wesite and publish the pdf here.
Posted By: SimonB

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 07:56 PM

How would you publish a pdf here?
Posted By: Cayemen

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 09:11 PM

He can ask Marty to publish it,

I can put it on one of my servers, then he publish just the link.
Posted By: Marty

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/20/10 09:18 PM

send it to [email protected] or [email protected] if its over 10mb....
Posted By: Ecoman

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/21/10 10:55 PM

Sorry everyone....Marty now has the pictures of the attachments and will post shortly. I think we should all be concerned with why GOB is "giving" so much to David Mitchell. If there is land to be given out should not go to the belizean people. GOB records show that they only got 50,000 dollars bz. T his was what our area rep said when the Amandala reporter asked him about this deal .SOMEBODYS PALM WAS GREASED GOOD and the Belizean people again got nada.
Posted By: Marty

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/21/10 10:56 PM

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Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/22/10 10:57 PM

Well i guess we know what happen to all the little Bird islands.
read this sun article, It didn't identify the Developer.
Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/22/10 11:09 PM

A little more history on this:
I guess the first of these land compensations is Grand Belizean Estates, the rest are the bird islands.
I need a clarification on what they compensated him for, I don't want to use the rumors, but the rumor is he bough or was trying to buy Congrejo Caye and Hol Chan took into the reserve????
Posted By: Ecoman

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:22 AM

This is where it gets interesting ,because GOB can't find records of what they compensated David Mitchell for .The only thing that they have found is a 50,000 dollars payment for land behind Caye Caulker that David Mitchell did,so why the BIG compensation .The former minister of lands suddenly has a case of amnesia and also his former buddies in SanPedro might have come down with the same symptoms.The GOB of Belize should do an investigation, but then our area rep is now his best buddy,So go figure.Shame ,Shame on him for not doing the right thing.
Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 02:54 PM

I hear ya, but there's more to discover I'm sure. When I saw the Grand Belizean Estates ads in the San Pedro Sun for financing with Belize Bank I couldn't believe the bank would loan money on titles that weren't solid so I visited Belize Bank and sat down with the loan officer, Mr. Brown and clarified they where loaning money on the lots with the land as collateral. He said 'Yes' and I took this as an indicator the staff attorneys had researched the titles and found them good enough to risk the loans.
An Abstract of the Title should be very short and clear on this subdivision, I don't think it will go backwards.
The Bird Cays are a different story. If this was an illegal act the propertys should be returned to the people of Belize.
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 04:34 PM

Elbert, GBE is also illegal. All the Pinkerton Estate was acquired by the GOB under a law that says the property is for public use. The entire land compensation is possibly/probably a fraud against the people perpetrated by the Ministers involved and the principal of GBE. I will do everything I can to bring this to some legal resolution. Land speculators and dishonest Ministers are and have been the curse of the island. Jr. does not care about this Island and has proven his loyalty to land speculators. The big question is why. I demand that they (Jr.) reveal then particulars of this transaction if they have the nerve to do so. If the situation is as it has been represented to me by some in the know it is just plain old fraud by the GOB and GBE. Belize Bank is not the ultimate authority and I question Mr. Brown's right to even discuss this with you. I would not want them discussing my business, good or bad with anyone.
The Bird Cayes are different as they were not included in the Pinkerton deal, to the best of my knowledge and the GOB probably has the right (right or wrong) to do with them as they please. Jr. has let us down miserably and should be ashamed of his actions.
Posted By: champion

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 04:53 PM

Did you make a faux pas and mean arrested rather that ashamed?
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 05:06 PM

Ecoman, you are exactly right. My information is that it was for the small island behind Caye Caulker (the pilots call it Mandy's Caye) and $50,000 is the right number. The property had had recorded owners from the '60's I believe. The original deal was brokered through Briceno by Milo and Jimbo ( so I have been led to believe). The original rightful owners were returned the property by Marin who also signed the compensations in question.
The word fraud comes to mind. If I am wrong I would appreciate someone to correct me. Yes our Rep. (Jr.) has sold us out and should be very ashamed. He either is ignorant of what he is doing to the Island or something else. It is not to late for him to return from the "dark side" if he wants to.
If a government can not keep track of its land titles it is not really a government is it?
Posted By: ScubaLdy

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 05:51 PM

Why can't they keep it simple? If Mr. Mitchell paid for land that was not the GOB's to sell, then the GOB should just give him back the parltry bit of money. END of problem.
This parlaying one purchase into multiple purchases can only have one purpuse - to keep secrets.
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 07:22 PM

It is a fraud. Of course all he is entitled to is his $50,000 and arguably some interest. Where is Jr? Gone to de bank?
Posted By: Ecoman

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 10:02 PM

The local newspapers should publish this information so that all the local population is informed . This is something that as you turn a stone you find more irregularities and discrepancies .The only winners in this scheme is first and foremost David Mitchell and his buddies .The clear losers are the people of this island .No EIA, No paying of commision to SPTC, no plan to proper develop this major subdivision with any kind of infrastructure and denying the opportunity for locals to get this land that was set aside specifically for them according to the Pinkerton deal. Where is our area rep.
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:15 PM

Our newspapers are much too afraid of offending someone or making a mistake. easier to report on Costa Maya. Its like the battle of the high school papers. We do need a paper that is not afraid to deal with the issues. I have written and written about our issues but they too afraid to publish so now I will hit it on TV at every opportunity. We need a rep, the special interests have this one all for themselves.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:18 PM

CH7 and Amandala are the media most likely to do investigative reporting.
Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:31 PM

Now Mike I don't think thats quite true, most of the info is coming from the San Pedro Sun.
and if you search these threads about GBE and Mitchell's escapades you'll see an Article quoted or commented on from the Sun.
I respect them for not prostituting themselves to their advertisers.
Thats the earmark of a real newspaper.
but I admit some relief the Costa Maya is over, enough of young women in bathing suits with sash and high heals on the beach!
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:42 PM

Jesse, I have come to realize that no one on the mainland knows what goes on out here much as without the internet we would know little of what goes on in Belize. Almost every single issue I have brought up to my mainland associates, mostly lawyers, was news to them, just as we are in the dark about much that happens nationally. Hubert Elrington called me Rip Van Winkle because I was so late in becoming aware of the offshore drilling threat, but we simply were not informed by our local media or area rep. Not even the town council knew of the plans.
Most people on the streets of San Pedro don't know anything about these land matters and are shocked when I give a summary. The GOB is using San Pedro as some give-away and no one will know, they think. Besides greed I think it is an attempt to weaken us politically. This goes double for the master plan that Coastal Zone has proposed. The next rep will have lots of work to undo these messes but it must be done. I have seen more obvious degradation of environment in the last 5 years than the 20 years before that. One of the big issues is the run off from the streets going into the sea. Very Bad. Hip shot engineering. An EIA for our streets would have revealed that problem and we could have planned a bit differently.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by elbert
but I admit some relief the Costa Maya is over, enough of young women in bathing suits with sash and high heals on the beach!

As a heterosexual male, I do not find that offensive. Just what would you prefer to look at on the beach? confused
Posted By: elbert

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/24/10 11:51 PM

:-) reality
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 12:04 AM

You are right partially Elbert, they print an occasional article with no follow up. But, "if it no so, it's nearly so". The mark of a real newspaper is who, what, when, where, and why. Not prostituting themselves to their advertisers should not be anything special. The more than flattering articles in the Guide would not fall into that category would it? I won't hardly read them as they are such tripe all though it is good to know that every restaurant and establishment here is the best in town even if they forget to tell you where it is.
Amandala used to try but sinks ever further into their racist murk with every editorial it seems, much as the BT keeps trying to tell us what a good government we had.
Next time you read an article from either of our papers look for the who, what, when, where and why that should be in the first paragraph in that order. It's called Journalism 101. They could both do much better. News reporting is different than prose.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by elbert
:-) reality

Would that be like me, Ernie and Jesse is Speedos.
If that is what you want, just speaking for myself, the best you can hope for is two out of three. smile

PS: Sorry Mike and et al. It is a serious subject. Although I find it interesting that in the past when some have posted of having negative experiences in Belize or any comments that picture Belize in a negative way, many have taken the approach of "shooting the messanger", or rationalizing it by saying it is worse many other places. Now so many that did that are now airing a lot of Belize's "dirty laundry".
I am not sure that is a bad thing. But, I wonder if exposing it to all who read this message board, many of whom get their first impression of Belize from what they read here, is offset by what little, if any, it might accomplish by influencing those that can make a difference.
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 01:50 AM

I have a foto of me in my speedo, wanna see it ?
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 01:55 AM! No!
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 02:09 AM

Ya know ya do !
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 02:10 AM

At the risk of being criticized by some on this board, not that it would bother me, but if those that were citizens of Belize really wanted to make a difference and felt the accusations made by them are factual, then I would think since Belize is a democracy, that the government could be held accountable in the court of law. A fund raiser to finance a court challenge would seem a way to accomplish what is right for the Belize people as opposed to just venting on this message board.
Posted By: Ernie B

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 02:33 AM

bywarren, if one could find a law firm willing to take the GOB on, I would support that effort.
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 03:43 AM

Quite right Byron, hopefully this board will make people aware and some action can be started. If I personally had the funds it would already be happening without me saying a word to anyone. I have already spoken to two different attorneys about the matter. I was hoping the new UDP gov would take action but they seem to have their own plans for us that does not involve making us stronger as evidenced by Coastal Zone's proposed master plan. The particulars of the Pinkerton transaction are public record. Actually the land was acquired from the receivers of bankrupt Breeze Corp. that had acquired it from Pinkerton Estate. I am not sure what public record exists on recent transactions. Glad to get some attention for this huge problem. How would you suggest we proceed to try to raise the lawyer money?
Posted By: spsun

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
The more than flattering articles in the Guide would not fall into that category would it? I won't hardly read them as they are such tripe all though it is good to know that every restaurant and establishment here is the best in town even if they forget to tell you where it is.

You are right Mike, I guess that goes for the review we did on Xaman Ek Retreat & Spa as well, tripe for sure. Oh ya, and the GUEST EDITORIALS and Letters to the Editor you have submitted that we you didnít get any death threats from those, did you???
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 05:20 AM

I am sorry I have offended you and did not mean it in a personal fashion but what I said about news content and addressing public issues stands. A newspaper has a responsibility to inform the community on all these important issues and it is not being done. We have some very big problems that can be solved if more people known about them and enough pressure is constantly applied on public officials to make something change. Those who have that power also have that responsibility. Running one story or printing a mining notice does not constitute informing the public to the extent that is necessary although it is beneficial and I am grateful for any information. Knowledge is power.

A newspaper can be a powerful tool if used properly. So can the internet and TV media as well. We are calling more attention to these problems through these media than through the newspaper which is a shame as that is the traditional role of the newspapers and editors. Traditionally advertisers support papers that they agree with editorially. The newspaper has a tremendous potential for informing the people and influencing those in power and in my view the potential is not being realized. The newspaper has the power and in my view the responsibility to bring these issues to the forefront each and every week and put the pressure on public officials to perform, it is not being done. If we want to save the Island it is time to take off the gloves. Of course newspaper editors can only support causes they believe in and those causes and the strength of their beliefs is reflected in their respective papers. The information I shared in my editorials and letters I gleaned from other sources as it was not being reported on.

I was hoping my comments might spark some debate as to the role newspapers play in a small community and I thank you for responding. You cannot judge a newspaper on the criteria of not prostituting themselves to their advertisers. I have comped newspaper writers from the states in exchange for favorable stories and believe I have also done so here on the basis of friendship and hand wash hand. All newspapers write favorable articles about their advertisers and friend's businesses and I have no problem with that however there is a bigger more important function of a newspaper than advertising and that is what I would like to focus on.

The local newspaper must be the watch dog of the community as they are, or should be, the ones with the most and first information. I am tired of feeling like a mushroom. It is impossible for me to join any national debate or form much of any opinion based on the news content of our papers. Although the national debate over offshore drilling had been raging for a long time it was never or barely reported here and we will be the ones that loose the most if it were to go through. Even the Town Council did not know. We have still had no reporting as to the pros and cons of the proposal even though I know the information is available. Our newspapers should have been all over this, now we have Jr. waffling and our newspapers are silent. Does that mean they agree with Jr's position? In the case of Ambergris I believe it does. Its time to stand up and fight for our home.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 10:53 AM

[quote=Mike Campbell How would you suggest we proceed to try to raise the lawyer money? [/quote]

There has been a lot of action by concerned citizens on policy matters like sustainable development and drilling for oil, etc. It is good that these are tried in the court of public opinion and ultimately at the ballot box. That is the way the system is suppose to work. But when illegal activities are alleged to be happening by public officials, that raises it to the court of law.
When there is a bully in the neighborhood, you can complain and walk away only so long. There comes a time, when if you are to gain respect, you might need to start throwing some punches.
San Pedro has a history of raising money for needed projects. But, this is not something that San Pedro should look to the tourists to do or expect the press to pursue. This is the responsibility of concerned citizens. They are the ones that have the right to demand recourse in the courts.
I am sure if this were to be done, there would be financial support from others.
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 05:22 PM

Actually I believe it is the responsibility of the press to pursue these matters as they have the audience necessary to get it to the public in general. I am a concerned citizen and am making as much noise as possible. We have no right to demand anything from the courts except to hear the case and act under the law.. We must pay lawyers and proceed under law. No money no lawyer. You are 100% right that is is a local issue and does not involve tourists but ultimately affects them.
I was hoping you had some ideas to contribute as to how that money can be raised as you had mentioned it. Illegal has various meanings, one puts you in the civil courts and another other puts you in the criminal courts. Unfortunately we have no anti-corruption laws that I know of and to prove such would require collaboration from other conspirators which is most unlikely. This would be a matter for civil courts who would decide the issues based on the laws of the land.
The preparation of this case will require a lot of research and record checking as each transaction would probably have to be addressed individually, hence the attorneys need for funding. Unless the GOB just caves there will be a big fight. It is the UDP that started these transactions as I previously mentioned so it is unlikely they will suddenly "get religion". After the last UDP government the PUP simply voided the titles that had been issued and that was that. Problem is then they started selling it off wholesale. Both governments consider Ambergris Caye as their property, not ours and do with it as they please via permits, sales etc. These are facts, not speculation.
Possibly a simpler way would be for the Town Council to acquire the land by land acquisition laws as they seemingly have a legal right to do. Are you a concerned citizen or a vocal spectator? Again, what course of action would you recommend?
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 06:25 PM

I guess you would catagorize me as a vocal spectator as I am not a citizen of Belize.
There has been much money raised in the past for causes and the same could hold true for this cause.
It would take some citizen of Belize, or group of citizens, to find and inquire with an attorney as to if there is a case and what the estimated costs would be. If it was detemined that there was a possibility of recourse in the courts, then a fund raiser could begin.
This all hinges on the accusation, primarly by you Mike, that illegalities have occured.
That is not to be critical of your actions, but only to suggest that more than public awareness is in order if in fact crimes have been committed.
Those actions need to be initiated by Belizeans who are the ones damaged by those alledged crimes.
The rest of us who are concerned can help financially, but I don't think the courts would consider us to have any standing to bring legal action.
Posted By: Mike Campbell

Re: Land compensation...??? - 08/25/10 08:34 PM

First committing crimes is a criminal matter by definition. Our situation is a civil situation and would probably be a civil suit against the GOB. I am not specifically referring to the Mitchell situation but it does seem to be typical of what has been going on. As he has not denied that only $50,000 changed hands I would assume it may be true. Payoffs are impossible to prove without the testimony of one of the conspirators or witnesses.
I have had this to two lawyers and have been trying to pursue it without funds for 2 1/2 years, ever since the election. Somehow I thought our rep would join the fray. The attorney has said that it all definitely needs to be researched in depth to see what the legal situation really is but on the surface it would seem that the transfers were not legal (which is different from being criminal).
As to who would have standing in court or who would file the suit is another legal question. The attorney that I believe would take the case is a Senior Counsel and I have not discussed costs with him as it would have been pointless.
I will be happy to hand all the info and attorney to anyone that has the funds to pursue it. I also have no problem with my name being used as claimant in any subsequent lawsuit although a successful suit would return the land to public ownership. Without funds all I can do is try to stir up awareness of what has happened and hope someone else with funds can carry the ball. The end result is all I care about. Thanks for your interest.
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